Marouane Fellaini | 2013/14 Performances

Status
Not open for further replies.
Siorac said:
If he's not familiar with playing in central midfield then why exactly have we bought him?
Click to expand...
I think
I read somewhere that Moyes thought his best position would be as a defensive midfielder. Either way he must have saw enough of him at Everton to know that given time he would be good enough to do a job there.
 
Siorac said:
Yeah, he's not very good in a midfield two. But in that case the question is: is it worth putting Rooney or Van Persie on the bench or on the flanks for the sake of adding Marouane Fellaini to our midfield? I don't think so.
Click to expand...


I think you're being a bit oversimplistic here. Playing with Fellaini (or Jones if you'd rather) as a committed defensive player in a 3-man midfield changes everyone's roles, it's not as simple as RVP/Rooney out and Fellaini in and everything else stays the same. Ultimately I think switching to a 4-3-3 would be a good idea in the long run because it moves us away from being overly reliant on a few key players and helps us deal with injuries better, and Fellaini has the potential to be a great DM in that system.

At the moment if Carrick's out we suffer noticeably because his class both offensively and defensively is the main reason we can maintain the 4-4-2/4-4-1-1 we're currently playing. Obviously he's not getting younger and we're going to have to get used to him not being fit/not being able to hold the midfield together single-handedly all the time. Having a 3-man midfield like the one I suggested earlier in the thread relieves the pressure on Carrick. Putting in Fellaini in front of the defence lessens Carrick's defensive burden whilst also allowing the 3rd midfielder to be a more forward thinking player, so we wouldn't be as reliant on Carrick offensively either. This means that when he's injured the midfield would still be strong offensively and defensively, as opposed to what happens now where our midfield is disjointed and offers less in both respects.

The added bonus is that we'd have a midfield and attack formed of strong starters playing in their natural positons as well as good backup for every role (barring Carrick's where anyone's a huge step down, but that's mitigated by the 3-man midfield)

Defensive role - Fellaini, Jones
Mixed role - Carrick, Cleverley, Fellaini, Giggs, Anderson.
More offensive role - Kagawa, Cleverley, Giggs, Januzaj, Anderson, Rooney (although he wouldn't be happy)
Wings - Valencia, Januzaj, Nani, Giggs, Welbeck, Young, Zaha, Rooney (although he wouldn't be happy)
Striker - Rooney, RVP, Hernandez, Welbeck.
 
Getsme said:
I don't, what I do know is that I'm willing to give him a chance to prove himself at the club. I'm not going to judge him after he's played less than 10 games in a role that's he's not firmiliar with.
According to some on here he's been awful every time he's played when in truth he hasn't. It seems like he is being used as the new "scapegoat" or a stick to beat David Moyes with, it's pathetic.

I'm not saying he's been brilliant every time he's played, he hasn't, however he hasn't been that bad, anybody that says he has been to me has a hidden agenda or just doesn't want to see any good that he brings to the team.

You are correct, I didn't quote any stats and that's why I questioned you on it, they don't really tell the true story of a player, I watch the game that's how I judge a player, I don't judge him on his price tag, where he's come from, only what's he can offer the team, so far I haven't been overly impressed, however I can see what he will bring once he's settled, he's never going to be Messi but we need players to do the ugly side of football and he will be one off the best at that by the end of the season if given the backing.

Currently I'd rather have him in our squad than not, a lot of our fans don't like him as he was our only transfer signing. That and his name isn't Fabregas or Thiago.
Click to expand...

Cool. I understand what you are saying, and would love to have the same view. Yes, I am guilty of using the price tag but irrespective of the price tag, I don't think he has offered anything worth while so far. And on the basis of my few years of watching football I don't think he will. That is why I am a bit more negative than usual about him. I liked his performance against Leverkusen but apart from that he has sort of fulfilled my fears.

So my view is not based on the transfer window. I would have been ok (not happy) if we didn't buy anyone as long as the manager wanted that.

I hope Felliani settles down and contributes. But I think we will be looking at a case of Andy Carroll. However, you are right as long as he plays for us I will wish that he does great
 
There will be things you'd hope he'd be working on improving in a new environment, but one thing he'll certainly need to be conscious of is that he will not get away with as many fouls as he did at Everton. He's already been sent-off in Europe, where referees are notoriously less lenient, but even looking at him early on in the Cardiff match, the referee was blowing-up for anything he did (particularly in the air), with the commentators speculating that he was getting close to a card for cumulative fouls. Small things will be highlighted and go against him because of the club he now plays for.
 
Rood said:
So you cant come up with anyone then? Thought not.
Nevermind at your ludicrous £5m or £10m, even at £15m?
Even if you ignore the PL proven (which like it or not, does command a premium), I doubt you can come up with a regular midfielder for any decent international side in your mental price bracket.

and BTW turns out that Cabaye (who BTW is slightly older, not younger than Fellaini) was a contractual situation (buy out clause coming to end of contract), so Newcastle got a bargain deal - they have done well on their French scouts recently TBF. He is very much a extreme exception due to contract situation and probably the only one in your previous list who I would want at United.

Anyway Fellaini is a lot better than you give him credit for - I actually think he has done a decent job in his last couple of games filling in for Carrick and he has a lot more to offer as well.
Click to expand...

Your criteria is obviously going to make it impossible to come up with an exact comparison, as one doesn't exist. I would say Arteta for instance was a far superior player when he moved, but was 3 years older and obviously wasn't internationally proven, but then again Fellaini wouldn't have a single cap for Spain so that's irrelevant. Likewise he played his best Football in a position we need, unlike Fellaini. Overall I'd say Arteta was a much better proposition and was £10m, so I would peg Fellaini at less than this. Likewise when Spurs bought Scott Parker for £6m he ticked every box you mentioned, except he was 29, not 25. Although again he had come off the back of season where he won many individual accolades (2 x PotMonth, team of the year, FoTY) unlike Fellaini and won plaudits playing in the position we require. Dembele would also be a decent example, was a similar age and had a similar amount of caps for Belgium at the time; he cost £15m. Although again he played his best Football in central midfield, unlike Fellaini who would be worth this amount as a No 10, but not as a central midfielder.

So I would say that all in all his value in his best position his value would be similar to Dembele (behind the striker). His value as a central midfielder would be below that of Arteta and similar to Parker I would imagine (because of his age).

I believe that he'll end up being a second option in the forward position (and an emergency backup in central midfield). Whenever we are losing or drawing we'll throw him up top with 10 mins to go to disrupt play. I firmly believe that there is a role for this kind of player in our squad.
 
finneh said:
Your criteria is obviously going to make it impossible to come up with an exact comparison, as one doesn't exist. I would say Arteta for instance was a far superior player when he moved, but was 3 years older and obviously wasn't internationally proven, but then again Fellaini wouldn't have a single cap for Spain so that's irrelevant. Likewise he played his best Football in a position we need, unlike Fellaini. Overall I'd say Arteta was a much better proposition and was £10m, so I would peg Fellaini at less than this. Likewise when Spurs bought Scott Parker for £6m he ticked every box you mentioned, except he was 29, not 25. Although again he had come off the back of season where he won many individual accolades (2 x PotMonth, team of the year, FoTY) unlike Fellaini and won plaudits playing in the position we require. Dembele would also be a decent example, was a similar age and had a similar amount of caps for Belgium at the time; he cost £15m. Although again he played his best Football in central midfield, unlike Fellaini who would be worth this amount as a No 10, but not as a central midfielder.

So I would say that all in all his value in his best position his value would be similar to Dembele (behind the striker). His value as a central midfielder would be below that of Arteta and similar to Parker I would imagine (because of his age).

I believe that he'll end up being a second option in the forward position (and an emergency backup in central midfield). Whenever we are losing or drawing we'll throw him up top with 10 mins to go to disrupt play. I firmly believe that there is a role for this kind of player in our squad.
Click to expand...

The reason you cant come up with anyone is because your original valuation of Fellaini as a midfielder at £5-7m was ludicrous - and you know it! Championship players go for more than that.

In any case you have actually finally mentioned a good comparable player - Dembele - he ticks many of the same boxes. So with Dembele at £15m and sitting on the bench while Fellaini starts IN MIDFIELD for Belgium, where does that leave your £5-7m valuation?

Although he has had some good games there, I dont believe that his best postion is behind the striker and I dont really want to see him there too much - although it does at least give us the option if required.
I have said earlier that I would like to see him used a bit further forward than where he has played in last couple of matches, but still very much a central midfielder.
 
Rood said:
The reason you cant come up with anyone is because your original valuation of Fellaini as a midfielder at £5-7m was ludicrous - and you know it! Championship players go for more than that.

In any case you have actually finally mentioned a good comparable player - Dembele - he ticks many of the same boxes. So with Dembele at £15m and sitting on the bench while Fellaini starts IN MIDFIELD for Belgium, where does that leave your £5-7m valuation?

Although he has had some good games there, I dont believe that his best postion is behind the striker and I dont really want to see him there too much - although it does at least give us the option if required.
I have said earlier that I would like to see him used a bit further forward than where he has played in last couple of matches, but still very much a central midfielder.
Click to expand...

I actually saw two ways of using him when we signed him: as a forward to disrupt the opposition defence when we are chasing a goal or as part of a diamond. Having Fellaini not have the defensive responsibility of a Carrick, but not have the offensive responsibility of another midfielder may see him become an acceptably good player at our level:

_____Carrick
Cleverley Fellaini
____Januzaj
__Rooney RVP

Obviously Januzaj could be replaced with Nani or Kagawa; Anderson or Jones with either Cleverley or Fellaini.

However in conclusion I still believe even in this formation where key responsibilities are shielded from him that we may as well play Anderson, Cleverley or Jones as the two in front of Carrick, who would all likewise benefit from a division of responsibility . I don't think Fellaini's skill set in central midfield makes him any better than any of those mentioned, although as is the case with all our midfielders we could stop playing wingers to accommodate for our central midfield ineptitude. If Cleverley were to leave I imagine it would be for less than £10m and he is Fellaini's equal in my opinion (despite putting in an even worse performance than Fellaini vs Cardiff).

We have basically stacked another versatile player to our current list of 2-3 mediocre but versatile options. You obviously disagree and believe he will prove to be a quality addition who was merely a few £m overpriced. Obviously this would put him in the company of the best central midfielders brought to the Premier League in the last 10 years: the likes of Essien, Makelele, Ramires, Toure etc, which I totally disagree with.

Not that his value is really worth discussing nowadays, as if we tried to get rid we'd struggle to get half of what we paid. What matters now is that he performs at least to the best of his capabilities, which would make him a decent squad player.
 
Felliani hasn't got a good enough press to play on the side of a diamond, he is far too slow
 
Rood said:
In any case you have actually finally mentioned a good comparable player - Dembele - he ticks many of the same boxes. So with Dembele at £15m and sitting on the bench while Fellaini starts IN MIDFIELD for Belgium, where does that leave your £5-7m valuation?
Click to expand...

Fellaini played seven games in the World Cup qualification campaign, a total of 455 minutes. Dembele played in all 10 games, a total of 535 minutes.
 
Couldn't imagine Moyes would risk him instead of Cleverley over the weekend in such a big game.....Giggs showed tonight that even at 40 he is light years ahead of both Cleverley and Fellaini but his aging legs unfortunately won't be ready to play from the start on Sunday
 
Hope he doesn't play on the weekend. We play at our best when we have a playmaker partnered to somebody very mobile and a hard worker (Jones). Fellaini is neither.
 
Kid Cunto said:
That comparison is invalid, Dembélé is actually a good footballer.
Click to expand...

And the most hideously overrated footballer in the Premier League, too. He looks pretty; offers nothing. Fellaini has been better for years now, both in the centre of midfield and in the hole.
 
Tonight showed what a difference having a mobile midfield can have. I'm gonna be having nightmares until the weekend about Fellaini playing against Spurs.
 
Siorac said:
Fellaini played seven games in the World Cup qualification campaign, a total of 455 minutes. Dembele played in all 10 games, a total of 535 minutes.
Click to expand...

meaningless because there are some games where Fellaini is not available.
There are several occasions recently where Fellaini starts with Dembele on the bench, I found only one occasion the other way around - there were a couple where they both start.
 
At the moment, Jones is doing the same job better. Which says a lot about Fellaini's form. You can't partner Jones with Fellaini, so for me Fellaini's going to have to miss out for now. We can start trying people out again when we have Carrick back to provide a safety net.
 
Brightonian said:
At the moment, Jones is doing the same job better. Which says a lot about Fellaini's form. You can't partner Jones with Fellaini, so for me Fellaini's going to have to miss out for now. We can start trying people out again when we have Carrick back to provide a safety net.
Click to expand...

why not? Id like to see it on Sunday
 
Kid Cunto said:
Neither pass the fall forward all that much.
Click to expand...

This really. And as the defensive contributions in midfield, Jones does far more then Fellaini does so he should get picked. We need to have at least 1 player there who can pass the ball, or run with it, and Fellaini isn't particularly good at either. He's not particularly good at anything but whatever.
 
Brightonian said:
Neither is capable of actually getting the ball to the forwards. They fill the same role, and each needs the 'other' type of CM to partner them - a Cleverley, Giggs or Anderson.
Click to expand...

Yes that would be a worry, it would be upto Fellaini to step up his passing and stop playing too safe - Cleverley was terrible last week and I doubt Giggs is going to start twice in a week so Id go with it.
 
Good half. Enjoyed watching him. He had one poor moment, letting Barkley out-muscle him, but he's done well.
 
important half for Fellaini.

Hopefully this will help him settle into the side, because we need him
 
Look at him midfielding and all that. Wasn't too happy when he get outpaced by Vidic running back from a corner mind but still some nice midfielding from Fellaini.
 
He's done pretty well. Nothing special. If that was his usual level from now on I think he'll turn out to be a solid addition to the team.
 
Pleased with his performance so far, looks more disciplined than he was so far for us.
 
Fighting against his reputation on here.

He has to be twice as good to get half the amount of praise as others.
 
Improving with every game, isn't he? He's never gonna be the quality we really want but he was never as bad as his early performances for us suggested either.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.