Marouane Fellaini | 2013/14 Performances

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Lu Tze said:
How many 6ft 4, aerially dominant, strong as feck, box to box CM's do you think there are in the world? A couple at most? The guy was bought for 15m aged 20, he was never going for less than 25m.

He's also destroyed us a few times and is a regular for his(talent stacked) national team. He's really very good, and I think he'll show it in the next couple years.
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There is one problem with him being a box to box CM, though. He lacks two essential things to make it at the top level in that role: a high class passing game (accuracy and range) and the ability to really shield the ball and carry it forward.

He did have a good game today and I could see him becoming a big contribution to United, just not in that role. I saw a lot of things today, especially the many second balls he recovered and the ground he covered, that led me to the conclusion that given the right partner (a creative and offensive CM), he would make one fine pure DM or "destroyer". His aerial strength can´t be denied and his physique and solid passing could add some good stability to the team, if he would consentrate largely on defensive duties.
 
Anyone else get frustrated at the way we use him on corners. Obviously it's the coaching staff who set out the positions on set pieces and not him but I would much rather he attack the ball rather than standing still in front of the keeper.
 
Sphaero said:
There is one problem with him being a box to box CM, though. He lacks two essential things to make it at the top level in that role: a high class passing game (accuracy and range) and the ability to really shield the ball and carry it forward.

He did have a good game today and I could see him becoming a big contribution to United, just not in that role. I saw a lot of things today, especially the many second balls he recovered and the ground he covered, that led me to the conclusion that given the right partner (a creative and offensive CM), he would make one fine pure DM or "destroyer". His aerial strength can´t be denied and his physique and solid passing could add some good stability to the team, if he would consentrate largely on defensive duties.
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I sorta get where you're coming from, he's no Xabi, Xavi or even Carrick passing wise. I actually think his accuracy is fine, it's his range which lets him down. I don't think his passing is objectively below what you'd expect of a title winning midfielder- see Hargreaves, Cleverley, Anderson, Ramires et al, it's serviceable.

On the topic of his ability to shield the ball and carry it forward, that's where I'd heartily disagree with you. I feel he's got the capacity to regularly move the ball through the centre of midfield. at Everton last year in his role further up the pitch he demonstrated good footwork on a regular basis (something we've seen glimpses of at United), and I think that quality has the potential to be a major asset for us moving forward.

His role in future really depends on the type of player(s) we bring in during the summer.
 
Lu Tze said:
On the topic of his ability to shield the ball and carry it forward, that's where I'd heartily disagree with you. I feel he's got the capacity to regularly move the ball through the centre of midfield. at Everton last year in his role further up the pitch he demonstrated good footwork on a regular basis (something we've seen glimpses of at United), and I think that quality has the potential to be a major asset for us moving forward.

His role in future really depends on the type of player(s) we bring in during the summer.
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I did not really question his footwork or close control. I think what he lacks the most in comparision to top level box to box player in that department is mobility, the ability to make quick turns and shift gears in terms of the tempo of the game. While his height gives him a edge in other departments, it hinders him in that aspect.

So it does certainly puts him behind the current best in that role (Vidal, Kroos, Thiago, Gündogan, etc.).
 
I doubt he will be used box to box, if Moyes moves toward 451 / 433 then perhaps he might be playing more box to box but I can see Moyes implementing a 4411 / 4231 and deploying him as the CDM focused on defensive duties such as winning the ball back and merely providing an extra option moving forward not unlike Khedira. He would be deployed alongside a DLP and I think he could do well in this role. Whatever happens against teams like WBA he will get forward due to our need to break them down but against the top teams he will more likely sit back.

It's so hard to define players, there are so many in the world who play a similar position yet has differing skill sets. Take Oscar and Rooney, both play as a number 10 yet Rooney probably doesn't have the first touch, agility and creativity of Oscar but then Oscar doesn't have the defensive ability, long range shot or passing range of Rooney. In particular his top defensive qualities for his position make Rooney a unique number 10, in the big games him dropping back and helping the midfield is invaluable (our victory against Arsenal earlier in the season). Both are good, just do things different but how do you assess which is better?
 
Sphaero said:
I did not really question his footwork or close control. I think what he lacks the most in comparision to top level box to box player in that department is mobility, the ability to make quick turns and shift gears in terms of the tempo of the game. While his height gives him a edge in other departments, it hinders him in that aspect.

So it does certainly puts him behind the current best in that role (Vidal, Kroos, Thiago, Gündogan, etc.).
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I would certainly agree he's less talented at bringing the ball forward than those players. That said, I think his lack of mobility has been broadly overstated by many on here. He isn't rapid, but he's not Ferdinand playing in midfield. He's a level below the very best at bringing the ball forward, but at present I think a level below the best is probably good enough for us, for the moment.
 
He's a decent player. He's good enough to be a squaddie, but if United are relying on him to be more than that then I think it's a mistake. Vastly overpriced at £27m.
 
Empire said:
I doubt he will be used box to box, if Moyes moves toward 451 / 433 then perhaps he might be playing more box to box but I can see Moyes implementing a 4411 / 4231 and deploying him as the CDM focused on defensive duties such as winning the ball back and merely providing an extra option moving forward not unlike Khedira. He would be deployed alongside a DLP and I think he could do well in this role. Whatever happens against teams like WBA he will get forward due to our need to break them down but against the top teams he will more likely sit back.

It's so hard to define players, there are so many in the world who play a similar position yet has differing skill sets. Take Oscar and Rooney, both play as a number 10 yet Rooney probably doesn't have the first touch, agility and creativity of Oscar but then Oscar doesn't have the defensive ability, long range shot or passing range of Rooney. In particular his top defensive qualities for his position make Rooney a unique number 10, in the big games him dropping back and helping the midfield is invaluable (our victory against Arsenal earlier in the season). Both are good, just do things different but how do you assess which is better?
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Oscar's defensive contributions are actually very good, the reason why Mourinho preferred him to Mata. Not even sure about long distance shots... Oscars scored a few screamers. I know the point you are trying to make that two players who play in the same position can be vastly different... but in this case your evaluation of Oscar is a bit off.
 
Cina said:
Another really good performance, soon you lot will realize that he's actually good enough for this club!
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No one denies he's good enough to be a very good squad man for us. The quarrel arises when it is suggested that he's good enough to be a regular starter for any elite club in Europe, which he clearly isn't

If we aspire to be in the same conversation as the likes of Barcelona, Real and Bayern we will have to significantly upgrade our midfielders, and that includes upgrading on Fellaini.

But would I mind seeing him on the bench as an option to throw something different at Bayern? Of course not. Fellaini could be a powerful weapon late against club on earth.
 
Eric'sCollar said:
Anyone else get frustrated at the way we use him on corners. Obviously it's the coaching staff who set out the positions on set pieces and not him but I would much rather he attack the ball rather than standing still in front of the keeper.
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Agreed. I'd really like to see him be much more aggressive on free kicks. He'd be a beast to defend.
 
BarneyLFC said:
He's a decent player. He's good enough to be a squaddie, but if United are relying on him to be more than that then I think it's a mistake. Vastly overpriced at £27m.
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Obviously he's not going to be the solution to our midfield problems.

We need a quality partner beside him and a formation/style to get the most out of him.

There's no reason that he can't be more than a 'squaddie' though. The other top teams in England and around Europe will have regular starters who are at his level. You don't need a team of world class.

Is Henderson a level above? Will Joe Allen be (I saw you say he might replace Henderson) ?
 
Alock1 said:
Obviously he's not going to be the solution to our midfield problems.

We need a quality partner beside him and a formation/style to get the most out of him.

There's no reason that he can't be more than a 'squaddie' though. The other top teams in England and around Europe will have regular starters who are at his level. You don't need a team of world class.

Is Henderson a level above? Will Joe Allen be (I saw you say he might replace Henderson) ?
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Let's look at most top teams in Europe. He wouldn't get a look in at Bayern, Barcelona or Madrid. He'd struggle to get games at Dortmund, Atletico, Liverpool, Arsenal, City, etc. That's not to say he's a bad player, but due to style and quality he'd struggle to get into those teams, he certainly wouldn't start for any of them.

Where did I say Allen might replace Henderson? Henderson is a better player than Allen and will probably go on to have an excellent career and eventually captain us.
 
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Walters_19_MuFc said:
Even then I think Moyes would probably go with Welbeck and Rooney, as opposed to a 3-man midfield. Could be wrong, though.
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I disagree. With rumours of RVP not happy under Moyes + Moyes constant travels to Munich, the writing is pretty much on the wall.
 
No one can deny it was an improvement yesterday.First half he did make some clumsy tackles ,which maybe he was lucky to get away with.But overall he was at the heart of most things within the team allowing the others to play.No doubt best performance from him in the red shirt,just needs to continue in the same vein,starting with the dippers.
 
BarneyLFC said:
Let's look at most top teams in Europe. He wouldn't get a look in at Bayern, Barcelona or Madrid. He'd struggle to get games at Dortmund, Atletico, Liverpool, Arsenal, City, etc. That's not to say he's a bad player, but due to style and quality he'd struggle to get into those teams, he certainly wouldn't start for any of them.

Where did I say Allen might replace Henderson? Henderson is a better player than Allen and will probably go on to have an excellent career and eventually captain us.
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Barney I'm a Henderson fan and have been since his early days. He reminds me of a young Fletcher, that aside. For me Fellaini would get a game for Liverpool easily and some of the other teams you have mentioned. (Oh and one more thing Barney i hope your not suggesting Liverpool are a top team in Europe? if so I think you are getting a bit carried away.)
 
Lawman said:
Barney I'm a Henderson fan and have been since his early days. He reminds me of a young Fletcher, that aside. For me Fellaini would get a game for Liverpool easily and some of the other teams you have mentioned. (Oh and one more thing Barney i hope your not suggesting Liverpool are a top team in Europe? if so I think you are getting a bit carried away.)
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Who does Fellaini displace? I think if Rodgers had Fellaini he'd try and do a Carroll type deal where he recoups half the fee.

We're a big team in Europe, but I've made the point a few times, we'd be destroyed in Europe by a few of those teams above.
 
Pogue Mahone said:
Heh. Not to mention that of all those teams, Liverpool is the odd one out because they aren't even "in Europe" this season.
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I included the title challengers (bar Dortmund) from the three best leagues at the moment. I'm pretty sure England is located within Europe. :angel:
 
BarneyLFC said:
I included the title challengers (bar Dortmund) from the three best leagues at the moment. I'm pretty sure England is located within Europe. :angel:
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As a Liverpool fan you're well qualified to know exactly where England is located, seeing as it's a long time since club has given you any reason to leave it.
 
Wait so Henderson having a better season for the first time means he's now sure to be the next Liverpool captain and Fellaini is still not good enough?

Hmm.

I look forward to the day Jordan Henderson captains LFC. I really really do.
 
ISSYNAZAR said:
Wait so Henderson having a better season for the first time means he's now sure to be the next Liverpool captain and Fellaini is still not good enough?

Hmm.

I look forward to the day Jordan Henderson captains LFC. I really really do.
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Typical Liverpool fans.

By the time the season is over they will be comparing Suarez to Pele and Maradona.
 
ISSYNAZAR said:
Wait so Henderson having a better season for the first time means he's now sure to be the next Liverpool captain and Fellaini is still not good enough?

Hmm.

I look forward to the day Jordan Henderson captains LFC. I really really do.
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Pretty much this. His first seasons are forgotten when he was a laughing stock alongside Downing and Carroll.
 
It was just one and half season ago, when Brendon tried to flog him to Fulham for Dempsey and now he's suddenly the next Liverpool captain.

Liverpool fans.
 
Glad I wasn't one of the prats who gave up on him or called him a flop when he was clearly not 100% fit.

He'll prove doubters wrong, and exceed the expectations in my opinion.
 
wonnie said:
Oscar's defensive contributions are actually very good, the reason why Mourinho preferred him to Mata. Not even sure about long distance shots... Oscars scored a few screamers. I know the point you are trying to make that two players who play in the same position can be vastly different... but in this case your evaluation of Oscar is a bit off.
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Oscar's his defensive contributions are very good and I know his long shots aren't bad at all, he also has a good passing range but are they to the standard of Rooney? What Rooney did against Arsenal is what he is synonymous with, I've never seen Oscar track back to our box and throw himself in front of a powerful shot like Rooney did in that game, this is consistent of Rooney but not really Oscar.

It's like Rooney has very good creativity but probably not on the level of Oscar.

I avoided the use of Mata, Kagawa or Ozil as an example because I wanted somebody who was a little similar to Rooney regarding some attributes in the sense Oscar does offer something defensively, can shoot from distance and has a good passing range however despite being good in those areas he is not as good as Rooney.

I think through the point instead of using two completely different players I wanted to use players who were both skilled at the examples I provided in regards to their attribute but whereas one was merely good the other was at the highest level for his position in those attributes and that step up makes him a completely different player almost.

I'm not sure about you but I would say Oscar and Rooney are very much so different in the number 10 position and using Oscar is a fair comparison. There is a noticeable difference in style and skills, of course the difference between Rooney and say Ozil is even more drastic.
 
BarneyLFC said:
He's a decent player. He's good enough to be a squaddie, but if United are relying on him to be more than that then I think it's a mistake. Vastly overpriced at £27m.
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Disagree. Next to a quality midfielder I think he's a more than capable starter to have in a DM position. Not to mention his arial ability is pretty invaluable in what's a pretty small United side.
 
Carl said:
Disagree. Next to a quality midfielder I think he's a more than capable starter to have in a DM position. Not to mention his arial ability is pretty invaluable in what's a pretty small United side.
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Not only that, many people just see his size and therefore assume he is just full of power but nothing more. Fellaini is no Yaya, and his passing range is limited, but technically on the ball he is good, his short passing range is accurate. He is actually quite agile for a person of his side which was reflected a few times yesterday.

It's easy to see his size and think that must be why he plays. But in truth if people really opened their eyes and watched him and saw through what looks like him trudging along the pitch as he is big, they'd see a player who is actually pretty good. 27m good? Who knows, probably not. But he certainly has improved our midfield.
 
BarneyLFC said:
Who does Fellaini displace? I think if Rodgers had Fellaini he'd try and do a Carroll type deal where he recoups half the fee.

We're a big team in Europe, but I've made the point a few times, we'd be destroyed in Europe by a few of those teams above.
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You havent been a big team in Europe for quite a while now. Your biggest thrill last season was winning a throw in.
 
Do we really need more attacking players? I mean we have arguably one of the best forward quartets in the world and the league, should we not be looking to balance that with a really strong defensive base to play off? I honestly thought when we signed Fellaini that we would get that ability to boss opposition midfields, which in turn would take the defensive burden off Carrick and allow him to dictate the game. At the same time I thought he would be the perfect player to get forward during an attack because the stuff about him being technically deficient was just people judging him by his size and had never actually watched him. He gives us that balance of a player who last season was had the 5th/6th highest goals and assists, whilst still being defensively sound.

I think he'll be an integral part of the team for the future.
 
My impression of him has changed a lot after that farce at the Ethiad Stadium. If we can deploy him properly, he can be a beast for us at the center. With his size and physique, aerial battles and winning the second ball are a piece of cake for him, his passing is decent and most of the time he releases the ball very quickly to the attackers, which is something you don't get very often from our midfielders.
 
He had a solid game yesterday, and actually helped us have a real midfield. No suprise that we actually played our best football with a fast defence helping the midfield apply higher pressure.

Fellaini did exactly what was expected of him, lets hope he can carry that good form on. to read the start of this thread sure does look stupid now though, doesn't it?.
 
Adam-Utd said:
He had a solid game yesterday, and actually helped us have a real midfield. No suprise that we actually played our best football with a fast defence helping the midfield apply higher pressure.

Fellaini did exactly what was expected of him, lets hope he can carry that good form on. to read the start of this thread sure does look stupid now though, doesn't it?.
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If we can add a energetic defensively sound left back with a Gundogan i can see Fellaini being a great asset to a balance United team. Besides running around like Berbatov in midfield he's a great battler, I just think Carrick sits too deep to be a great partner for him.
 
BarneyLFC said:
Let's look at most top teams in Europe. He wouldn't get a look in at Bayern, Barcelona or Madrid. He'd struggle to get games at Dortmund, Atletico, Liverpool, Arsenal, City, etc. That's not to say he's a bad player, but due to style and quality he'd struggle to get into those teams, he certainly wouldn't start for any of them.

Where did I say Allen might replace Henderson? Henderson is a better player than Allen and will probably go on to have an excellent career and eventually captain us.
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I'm not sure Henderson, Arteta are better than him. I know you didn't mention Chelsea but before Matic he probably would have got games there too. Before Fernandinho, are we sure he wouldn't have got much time playing for City?

My apologies, it would seem it wasn't you who said that Allen would replace Henderson. I think it might have been B20 then.

Put a Gundogun or someone of that quality alongside him, and it becomes a strong midfield.

Anyway, it's a weird argument. Which of Liverpool's starting 11 would get into Barcelona, Madrid, Bayern, Dortmund exactly? Apart from Suarez, who else? I doubt Sturridge, Gerrard, Coutinho would. Your back 4 and keeper definitely wouldn't...

So I guess they're not good enough?
 
He's certainly showed that against the likes of WBA and Palace he'll help give us an edge over teams trying to get physical with us.
 
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