People looked at Liverpool’s midfield individually vs the best in Europe and wondered how but they work well together. These two midfielders give us something no combination of current midfielders at United provide and have been the consistent pairing during a good season. I’m sure United will look to improve with Pogba potentially leaving and Matic declining but there are bigger gaps in the squad (RW/CF/CB).
McFred is the worst midfield 2 of the PL’s top 10 teams
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Weren’t you the one who said the PSG vs Bayern game was low in quality?
If it was you, then you have absolutely no right to talk to anyone about football.Edit: Just took a minute to have a look, and it was indeed you. Stick to the general forum man.
I don't like some of the comparisons I see in this thread to be honest. Its needed to remembered what there instruktion are. We don't play in the same way as most team.
Our two are no specialists at neither the offensive or defensive, they also don't play in the way I consider is accurate B2B. They try to cover up space behind our "wingbacks" a bit more than what I like, but I'm sure its there instruktion to do so. And the reson for that, I believe is because of our attackers that don't work there as off in defence. (Look at Mane/Sala.) And Liverpool did play Henderson/ wiljnaldum/ Fabinho as there middle three. Now they try to do it more offensive with Thiago, but with there defensive players injured it doesn't look like what we are used to see.
If you compere them with Gundogan and VdB you need to see the defensive work as well. You just don't see those two cover up for the left or right-back. Many other teams don't play with 4 very offensive players and "wingbacks" like we do. Ole wants McFred to be the cover up for that, and in attack one of them is to be the alternative outside the box. We demand a lott of them to be honest.
When we play a high press I think its working ok, but when we end up to low, it doesn't look as good. I also think both of McFred provides to little or to bad with the play from our CB's.
Our two are no specialists at neither the offensive or defensive, they also don't play in the way I consider is accurate B2B. They try to cover up space behind our "wingbacks" a bit more than what I like, but I'm sure its there instruktion to do so. And the reson for that, I believe is because of our attackers that don't work there as off in defence. (Look at Mane/Sala.) And Liverpool did play Henderson/ wiljnaldum/ Fabinho as there middle three. Now they try to do it more offensive with Thiago, but with there defensive players injured it doesn't look like what we are used to see.
If you compere them with Gundogan and VdB you need to see the defensive work as well. You just don't see those two cover up for the left or right-back. Many other teams don't play with 4 very offensive players and "wingbacks" like we do. Ole wants McFred to be the cover up for that, and in attack one of them is to be the alternative outside the box. We demand a lott of them to be honest.
When we play a high press I think its working ok, but when we end up to low, it doesn't look as good. I also think both of McFred provides to little or to bad with the play from our CB's.
Nonsensical comment by thread starter because we are second.
We are 2nd in the league with MCFred,can’t remember the last time we lost a game with both of them starting so they can’t be that bad,
If they both stay fit next season..We will win the league
If they both stay fit next season..We will win the league
I agree with the last bit there about Pogba & mcfred. I would like us to add competition to mcfred next season. I don’t think Matic has been good enough this season, I think if we have a more reliable midfielder than Matic who can compete or rotate with mcfred will actually make us much better. For instance, we lost 9 games this season and 5 of them when Matic was a starter. In fact, we only lost three times with mcfred in starting XI and those three lost were against Man city, PSG & arsenal, two out of the three were not some mediocre teams. And we also beat Man city & PSG with Mcfred in our away games.
Have a read of this PMRashy. 3 losses for the worst pair in the top 10.
Thats the issue though. We need better players to fulfill the hard demands of playing in that midfield 2 or we could drop Fernandes deeper and play with a 3. The big problem with that though is neither are good defensive midfielders. They have poor positioning, do not provide adequate build up support to our centre backs or full backs and have the composure on the ball to play as a pivot.
I like them but no white text while saying we'll win the league with...is a kind of surprise.
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It's already been a solid year for you. Keep up the good work!
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Yes, you could be right. There could, or to be honest, there are better players out there who could make us better. I just don't like compressing with players that don't play in the same position. For example I don't think VdB would do a better job than Fred in Freds position, even if VdB is a far superior player.
What kind of player do you see taking either Fred or McT's place in the team.
For me its a CDM, and I like Rice. AND I actually think there is a Place for MacT or Fred next to him, depending on the opponent.
Every team needs there Fletcher/Park whom I did rate quite high.
With question marks all over the pitch that need answering to be able to be anywhere near winning the league.....
I don't like Rice actually. I feel the biggest thing is distribution and a good first touch, I don't think rice has that. I would get Camavinga even though he's also more of a box to box player, however, he has a good touch on the ball, which gives our defenders a solid outlet in the middle to pass the ball to when playing out of a press. Furthermore, even though he's not a passer, he can consistently drive with the ball, which makes up for the space between the midfield and attack.
If not that, then I'd look at Paredes at PSG, great passing, great touch, already recieves the ball from the back line and moves it quickly. Suits more of what we need to pair with Fred or Mctominay.
Completely agree with this post.
It's also why Solskjaer is prioritizing the signing of a CB (according to reports), who has the ability/attributes to thwart counters on his own, which would give us the option to free up the midfield and play a more expansive game.
I read somewhere that Ole is considering making a B2B of Rice... I hope that is not true. If we want a B2B you have two better options in your post!
For the ballance in the team I think its important to not look for more Brunos or Pogbas.
I think we need a CDM and a CB. A CDM that can do McFreds defence job alone. CDM is prio 1 for me. But a CB with the attributes to alow us to stay high in the press and to move the ball forward faster than the one we have. So speed and a great first touch, and an eye and courage to move the ball forward to Pogba or Bruno...
I don't think Ole prioritises a CDM. And maybe he succeed with "the same" goal I think we need with the CB he probably is looking for.
Its easy to forget that someone still need to cover up the "wingback" situation we have like McFred do. The wingbacks are not attacking like liverpool for example. Liverpool have both there wingbacks high in every attack. They actually assist each other. We don't allow that because we lose the ballance if we do.
My point is that if Ole only looking for the right CB and we keep on playing with two "B2B" (McFred) there could be a possibility we can get a lott more offensive just because our wings gets higher up the pitch at the same time.
And I don't think Ole thinks that McFred is the best center midfielders out there, but I think he prioritises other possisions first. And in a way I do agree even if I keep on writing I want a CDM.
I think Mc is good enough to still be starting a lot of games for us. Fred on the other hand should not be starting games if we want to be back challenging for the title and the Champions League. I still think the signing of Donny was a weird one because we already had 3-4 potential number 10s...Bruno, Pogba, Lingard and Mata at a push. I would have thought that having backup/replacement for McFred would have been more important.
I absolutely think thats the plan in Oles mind. And if the plan works out, I would be very happy. It is the way of playing I wants us to play. But I think a good CDM i needed to succeed with that. We want buy both players this summer so its going to be very interesting to see how it turns out.
Ole is one of the most "change our tactics and players per opponent" type of manager I've seen in a long time.
Fred&Mctomminay is not a symbol of our tactics or style, it's just the best we have for a defensive stability in midfield.
Fred&Mctomminay is not a symbol of our tactics or style, it's just the best we have for a defensive stability in midfield.
I agree. I do believe he's (Ole) working towards the same. And him wanting a CB with particular attributes is a must if he is to succeed in implementing his preferred style of play which is high tempo, high energy, fast transition football, with the CBs and midfield playing higher up the pitch.
A midfielder is also required, but that should be after we've created the conditions for the midfield to thrive by adding a CB who gives us the option to play with more risk hence freeing up the midfield.
Whether they are or aren’t the worst midfield two in the top 10, they shouldn’t be starting together in games like today. Useless.
The goal summed those two up. Shit pass and shit ball control.
How many players are out of position to accommodate these 2? Rashford through the middle, Pogba on the left....what the feck are we doing.
The need to upgrade on some players is too obvious. Yeah they can have good games here and there but McFred (you can add AWB and Lindelof too) aren't players who need to start regularly for the team if it's to challenge for serious trophies
Fred should have done much better. McTom hasnt got the quality to come out of that situation well. Not the first time Fred fecks up in dangerous areas, he is a liability and inconsistent
Out of the 2,who would step up a level beside a better partner. I feel Fred would offer more in his role
Neither can pass, neither are press resistant, neither have a smidgen of composure. Mctominay has energy, height & a bit of a goal threat, but can’t tackle for shit & just gives away fouls. Fred is a decent tackler & can intercept well, but offers absolutely nothing on the ball. Basically it’s 2 men doing one mans job, poorly.
neither would look out of place at Southampton.
neither would look out of place at Southampton.
Fred should be a squad player at best and McTominay shouldn't really be at the club, this is Mourinho's legacy right there and it's still hurting the club.
Out of the two, Fred offers less. He wouldn't start at any other top 10 team. £50m down the fecking drain.
McTominay is the weak link. He offers nothing 90% of the time.
As much as I have a soft spot for Fred, he just isn't good enough. As the team has improved around him his flaws have become more obvious.
Less than nothing? Because McTominay is just nothing more than a body in midfield.
If we upgrade on McTom, Fred will be the weak link. At the end of the day, both need to be replaced as starters.
Fred Santos starts again!
This is why I've said time and again we HAVE to upgrade the DM position with an actual DM because these two are not the answer long term. I've said DM should be the priority above any other position.
McTominay is weak for the goal and has been passive all fecking half. Lindelof just being Lindelof.
McTominay is weak for the goal and has been passive all fecking half. Lindelof just being Lindelof.
Pointless midfield. Both poor going forward and can't defend.
You will struggle to replace Fred's defensive and combative contribution though. At least we get that from Fred.
Scott in this form is a bit of a passenger.
Thing with McTominay is sometimes he offers a goal or an assist. At their peak, he is the superior player. He's a decent footballer but he's just blatantly not a defensive midfielder so I don't know why we keep persisting with him there. With Fred though, he's the only player I know who is better without the ball on his feet. With the ball, he's a Championship player. Can't pass, can't shoot, can't dribble.
They're all decent players capable of having very good games/runs of form but like you say they're not really of the level where you want them starting week in and week out because when they have an off day or even an average performance, relative to their ability, it has a strong detrimental effect on the team. If you upgrade them and have players in there that even on a bad day can conjure something or contribute positively in one facet of play then it makes a big difference.
They’re both decent players. They’re also a massive, massive problem.
If we work on the assumption that Pogba stays then it’s clear that he is to play from the left.
These two aren’t a title winning midfield.
If we work on the assumption that Pogba stays then it’s clear that he is to play from the left.
These two aren’t a title winning midfield.