Messi is better than maradona....

VoetbalWizard said:
from old matches i've seen, whilst the tackling was rougher...the team defense was atrocious in the 50's and 60's. so much 1v1......defenses never rotated as fast and closed down space nearly as quick as they do in modern (after 1985) football.

I think someone like messi, whilst would've been kicked more, also would've gotten so much more 1v1 opportunities in 'old' football and consequently roasted teams even worse.
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indeed, there's a big myth about 60's defenses, yes, they were tougher man to man, but i remember watching a 60s game were a goalie kicks the ball far, and a midfielder from the rival team get's it with his chest, the ball bounces like 6 or so yards, but he run and kept the ball

if you did that nowadays, you'll be surrounded by three or four rival players and there's no chance in hell you could keep that ball
 
Why are you asking Messi to do specifically the things that Maradona did to be compared to him, and not asking Maradona to do the things that Messi did to be compared to him?? Messi didn't do EVERYTHING that Maradona has done, but has Maradona done EVERYTHING that Messi did?

I think "Messi not winning the world cup" is a lame excuse. 7 games every 4 years with players you never played with before (virtually) is hardly the best way to decide which player is better..
 
His passing was probably better than his dribbling.
 
He's won a lot of respect of late in my eyes. I never thought he would improve as much as he has over the last year or two.

But seriously right now I'm not feeling any love for him given our loss. I want him to get fed up with football and success all Ronaldhinio style.
 
I hope City sign him tbh. They'll find a way to feck him up.
 
marcosdeto said:
indeed, there's a big myth about 60's defenses, yes, they were tougher man to man, but i remember watching a 60s game were a goalie kicks the ball far, and a midfielder from the rival team get's it with his chest, the ball bounces like 6 or so yards, but he run and kept the ball

if you did that nowadays, you'll be surrounded by three or four rival players and there's no chance in hell you could keep that ball
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Watch some of the Best and Charlton compilations on youtube. I am not for a moment saying they were not great players and I am sure they would do great in this day and age but some of the defending and goalkeeping you would not see in non league football nowadays

Tactics and in particular defending has come on leaps and bounds in the past 20 years. Not even worth comparing
 
Spoony Youngblood said:
Would he have a choice? I think everyone's got a price....even Messi.
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Firstly I don't know why a club would sell Messi. He's far too valuable for that IMO. But if anyone wants to sell him, he'd have a choice of a number of clubs to go for and those clubs would break their transfer budgets to get him because he would bring some level success (possibly). So I don't see him having ever being forced to go to City. It just doesn't happen to top players. It happens to players who need a stepping stone.
 
amolbhatia100 said:
What do you say Marcos? Better than Maradona?

Or he still has to prove himself in a non Barca environment?
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i don't think he has to prove in a non barca enviroment, a player is good no matter where or when he plays

but as i said before, messis passing and free kicks are not yet as good as maradonas
 
marcosdeto said:
i don't think he has to prove in a non barca enviroment, a player is good no matter where or when he plays

but as i said before, messis passing and free kicks are not yet as good as maradonas
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For me individual ability doesn't change.

The part in the game where he nutmegged Vidic on the half way line, and ran the whole lengh of the pitch, slid a through ball to Villa to miss the return by inches.

That's individual ability, it has nothing to do with those around him, or his second goal vs Real.

The players around him aren't making him make great players look like numpties.

With regards to Argentina, it will come, for me it's inievitable. Anybody who saw him at the Copa 2006 knows he can do it imo.

People think he has to win the world cup to be the greatest, but if he does win it does that mean his actual individual ability changed?

Especially if he wins it when he's not at his peak.
 
Messi is definitely the best since but purely on an individual skill level, I don't think he is as good as Maradona was and I doubt he ever will be. Maradona's vision and mastery of the football were so complete.

Messi has been given the platform at club level to win everything and become one of the most successful players to have played the game. Maradona so often was his own platform.
 
Boss said:
For me individual ability doesn't change.

The part in the game where he nutmegged Vidic on the half way line, and ran the whole lengh of the pitch, slid a through ball to Villa to miss the return by inches.

That's individual ability, it has nothing to do with those around him, or his second goal vs Real.

The players around him aren't making him make great players look like numpties.

With regards to Argentina, it will come, for me it's inievitable. Anybody who saw him at the Copa 2006 knows he can do it imo.
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that's right mate, you can say he scores more goals because he has great players surrounding him, the same about wining trophies

but nutmegging, dribbling, passing and backheel kicking is done by the player all by hiimself
 
Boss said:
For me individual ability doesn't change.

The part in the game where he nutmegged Vidic on the half way line, and ran the whole lengh of the pitch, slid a through ball to Villa to miss the return by inches.

That's individual ability, it has nothing to do with those around him, or his second goal vs Real.

The players around him aren't making him make great players look like numpties.

With regards to Argentina, it will come, for me it's inievitable. Anybody who saw him at the Copa 2006 knows he can do it imo.
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Would have been an outstanding goal if it came off. It's just intuitive ability with a football, something that honestly can't be taught. The relationship Messi has with a football is unique in the modern game..he never lets it get away too far from him even when dribbling at top speed. All his movements with the ball are measured and precise.
 
marcosdeto said:
i don't think he has to prove in a non barca enviroment, a player is good no matter where or when he plays

but as i said before, messis passing and free kicks are not yet as good as maradonas
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Doesn't the support cast matter though?

For example, clearly guardiola has been at an advantage in his meetings with fergie and one has to not fall prey to thinking his teams dominance to being a pointer to him being a better manager.

I have no clue because I never saw maradona on a weekly basis.
 
Boss said:
For me individual ability doesn't change.

The part in the game where he nutmegged Vidic on the half way line, and ran the whole lengh of the pitch, slid a through ball to Villa to miss the return by inches.

That's individual ability, it has nothing to do with those around him, or his second goal vs Real.

The players around him aren't making him make great players look like numpties.

With regards to Argentina, it will come, for me it's inievitable. Anybody who saw him at the Copa 2006 knows he can do it imo.

People think he has to win the world cup to be the greatest, but if he does win it does that mean his actual individual ability changed?

Especially if he wins it when he's not at his peak.
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His ability is improving all the time. His strength on the ball is getting better, season upon season. Considering he's only 23.. thats frightening. Ronaldo on the other hand, his dribbling just doesn't seem to have progressed, he still struggles to maintain balance when going past players at speed, Messi on the other hand, I predict more Getafe like goals but against more worthy opponents over the coming years.
 
Maradona was much better, but Messi is getting closer and closer.
 
Maradona had it all - dribble (like Messi), pass (like Xavi), freekick (like Beckham), creativity, flair, explosiveness. You name it.
 
TheHorse'sMouth said:
Would have been an outstanding goal if it came off. It's just intuitive ability with a football, something that honestly can't be taught. The relationship Messi has with a football is unique in the modern game..he never lets it get away too far from him even when dribbling at top speed. All his movements with the ball are measured and precise.
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It's literally the first thing I think anyone notices the first time they see him play.

The ball seems like it's actually glued to his foot.

In that regard it hasn't really changed since he first really broke into the team


The thing about Messi is he's probably the most intelligent player in the world, he's decided what he wants to do in miliseconds which almost always catches the defender off guard.
 
RedRonaldo said:
Maradona was much better, but Messi is getting closer and closer.
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maradona was the most complete player i have ever witnessed (not taking away anything from messi, but) imagane the tricks like ronaldo/ronaldhino/zidane, passing of becks/pirlo, The dribbiling of Messi, the strength of Roberto carlos, freekicks like Beckham/Juninhio (lyon) and the finishing of Fat Ronaldo, the heading ability of shearer and the handling of taibi (:)).

then you will get near what maradona was.
 
What was maradonas goalscoring record during his best years? Was it this phenomenal like messi? Of course you have to take into account the gulf in the Spanish league.
 
amolbhatia100 said:
What was maradonas goalscoring record during his best years? Was it this phenomenal like messi? Of course you have to take into account the gulf in the Spanish league.
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Then you have to counter it with the fact Messi has the best goal to game ratio in CL History, which is the biggest competittion in domestic football.


*I read it somewhere could be wrong*
 
and equalled Nistelroy's scoring record of 12 goals in one CL season.
 
Boss said:
Then you have to counter it with the fact Messi has the best goal to game ratio in CL History, which is the biggest competittion in domestic football.


*I read it somewhere could be wrong*
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And also see the quality of teams they were in i.e the support they had.

But if his finishing was fat ronaldoesque he'd have a great goalscoring record at his peak even if was offset somewhat by not being in a dream team.u
 
But really, those arguing that Messi has to imitate Maradona to equal him are idiots.

Where is Maradona's european cups? Why did he not score anywhere near as many goals as Messi in Europe, why did he only ever thrive when he was a big fish in a small pond?

These are rubbish arguments of course and they are rubbished by the evidence of watching him play and being sensational. And the same goes for Messi. Look at him play and the 'he needs to do it for a small club' arguments are rubbished.

I'll say this: If Maradona had delivered the kind of performance Messi did tonight, everyone would be saying it was Vintage Diego, as good as its gets and no one else is his equal. Whether that makes Messi juts as good or better is hard to say. But it does mean he is worth being mentioned in the same breath as Pele and Maradona. He has already left the likes of Zidane and Ronaldinho in his wake.
 
Nani Nana said:
Messi needs to pass like this first
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You could argue that while Maradona's passing is better Messi is a much more of a goal scorer and Maradona can't match that?

People compare them but you could argue they are not the same type of players
 
JazzG said:
You could argue that while Maradona's passing is better Messi is a much more of a goal scorer and Maradona can't match that?

People compare them but you could argue they are not the same type of players
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maradona could do with an orange what beckham doe swith a football , LOL

anyways, maradona in this team would take the piss mark my words.
 
JazzG said:
You could argue that while Maradona's passing is better Messi is a much more of a goal scorer and Maradona can't match that?

People compare them but you could argue they are not the same type of players
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well I'm not the one that started the comparison am I ? :lol: But your point is fair, though I believe Maradona could have easily adjusted his game to Barça's current needs and become more of a goal-scorer had he wanted to.

Boss' post is also a fair one, but I wish to see Messi deliver the same kind of passing in a different outfit, it's too easy to do it at your childhood club with team-mates and tactics you've known for ages!!
 
gulli_G said:
maradona could do with an orange what beckham doe swith a football , LOL

anyways, maradona in this team would take the piss mark my words.
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Mark your words for when he actually does come into this team? :lol:
 
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