Messi v Ronaldo | Contains double your daily salt allowance

Messi or Ronaldo

  • Messi

  • Ronaldo

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SirAF said:
Excluding penalties and other competitions :lol:
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I'd imagine that the other competitions were excluded because the stats are harder to find for them. It's not to make Cristiano Ronaldo look worse - if you considered all competitions his goalscoring rate would be worse while Messi's would improve.

But laugh away.
 
SirAF said:
Excluding penalties and other competitions :lol:
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I'm not really not sure what you meant. It's a simple straight forward table.

Edit: I guess you referring to why CDR is not listed? Is that it? Many websites don't do detailed tracking for all like CDR, CWC, SuperCopa etc.,
 
Can we have a poll please @Rado_N ? Just curious to see what's the general consensus of the caf on this issue. You more or less see the same posters in the Ronaldo and Messi threads with many others actively avoiding it.
 
Bob Loblaw said:
I'd imagine that the other competitions were excluded because the stats are harder to find for them. It's not to make Cristiano Ronaldo look worse - if you considered all competitions his goalscoring rate would be worse while Messi's would improve.

But laugh away.
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2014/15:

LM10: 1.07
CR7: 1.20
 
SirAF said:
2014/15:

LM10: 1.07
CR7: 1.20
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That's not what I meant. I mean if you add in the other competitions Messi's goals per game ratio would go up and Cristiano's would go down. Compared to without the other competitions, not compared to each other.
 
@Skorenzy made a great point.

Give the penalty taking duties to Neymar and Benzema this season and (assuming they score the same amount of them) this is how it looks,

Messi, 27 goals in all comps (in 26 apps)
Neymar, 18 goals in all comps (in 22 apps)

Cristiano, 26 goals in all comps (in 30 apps)
Benzema, 24 goals in all comps (in 29 apps)


Also shows once more that Cristiano didn't find some magical new level, as the more significant factors that changed were his team's offensive performance (he has around the same % of his team's goals as in the last two seasons, which means they just scored more on the whole) and the fact that they've gotten a disproportionate amount of penalties so far compared to Barça which skews it a bit. If the trend I noticed in the La Liga thread holds that means Barça will get more pens in the 2nd half of the season.
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Mrs Smoker said:
Weak footed goals? Doesn't seem that weak when a guy scores half of his footed goals with the 'weak' one.

Anyway, slight advantage to Messi there, based only on that table.
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Wouldn't say it's that slight. It's slight if we only look at the goals (excluding penalties) and assists. Messi is a lot more involved in the game (that's a more complete player for me) as one can tell by the number of passes and dribbles. Also think the tackling stats are astonishing if true. He seems to work harder, despite "strolling around and not being arsed".
 
CLARiiON said:
Yes, that's what I read. But that can't be all, is it? Anyway not really relevant discussing this in this thread.
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One of my mates told it was mainly because she didn't make much of an effort to get along with his mum and his sisters (not sure he has any) and so her not turning up to his mum's birthday part put the nail in the coffin.
 
Arruda said:
Wouldn't say it's that slight. It's slight if we only look at the goals (excluding penalties) and assists. Messi is a lot more involved in the game (that's a more complete player for me) as one can tell by the number of passes and dribbles. Also think the tackling stats are astonishing if true. He seems to work harder, despite "strolling around and not being arsed".
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The style of the 2 teams has a lot more to do with that, Barca like to pass and pass whilst Real play more direct.
 
saivet said:
One of my mates told it was mainly because she didn't make much of an effort to get along with his mum and his sisters (not sure he has any) and so her not turning up to his mum's birthday part put the nail in the coffin.
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For your average joe, she's dating the guy, not the sisters or mother.

For Ronaldo. First, first, first, first, first world problems bro.
 
Cal? said:
The style of the 2 teams has a lot more to do with that, Barca like to pass and pass whilst Real play more direct.
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That certainly plays a role, though I don't think it's as dramatic a difference as it would be 3 years ago and it's nevertheless a reflection of their ability in those departments as well. It's something you know from watching and the stats help confirm it, not something revealed by them.
 
I wouldn't say Messi is slightly better in regards to that table either. Messi is ahead in most of the categories.
 
Arruda said:
Wouldn't say it's that slight. It's slight if we only look at the goals (excluding penalties) and assists. Messi is a lot more involved in the game (that's a more complete player for me) as one can tell by the number of passes and dribbles. Also think the tackling stats are astonishing if true. He seems to work harder, despite "strolling around and not being arsed".
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It's correct (it's gone up to 20 v 2 since that table was posted), but I'd be wary of using such stand-alone stats to make any sort of conclusion about work rate. The eye test still works best in that regard in my opinion. Messi has always tackled and scrapped more than Cristiano, that's just the difference in their style. Cristiano makes up for it by performing defensive tasks that Messi doesn't/can't, like clearances (usually headed) at set-pieces. Neither of them tracks back very much, but I must say that Cristiano has improved upon it from what I've seen lately. Messi often has a couple of impressive tracking back or tackling/stealing-the-ball moments per season, but it's not a reflection of his work rate as a whole obviously.
 
Skorenzy said:
It's correct (it's gone up to 20 v 2 since that table was posted), but I'd be wary of using such stand-alone stats to make any sort of conclusion about work rate. The eye test still works best in that regard in my opinion. Messi has always tackled and scrapped more than Cristiano, that's just the difference in their style. Cristiano makes up for it by performing defensive tasks that Messi doesn't/can't, like clearances (usually headed) at set-pieces. Neither of them tracks back very much, but I must say that Cristiano has improved upon it from what I've seen lately. Messi often has a couple of impressive tracking back or tackling/stealing-the-ball moments per season, but it's not a reflection of his work rate as a whole obviously.
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Pretty much. I think the main reason for Messi's higher tackling stats is that he's actually very good at winning the ball back when he wants to. So that stat reflects that rather than his work rate improving.

Think his off the ball movement has been less laboured than last season too, but that's not saying much.
 
@Skorenzy

It was a poor choice of words, "work harder". I meant something else in my head, or rather something minimal such as "works harder at tackling". Obviously Ronaldo's work-rate can't be questioned.
 
Arruda said:
That certainly plays a role, though I don't think it's as dramatic a difference as it would be 3 years ago and it's nevertheless a reflection of their ability in those departments as well. It's something you know from watching and the stats help confirm it, not something revealed by them.
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According to that table:
Messi: 1491
Ronaldo: 845
1.76:1

http://www.whoscored.com/Regions/20.../11363/TeamStatistics/Spain-La-Liga-2014-2015
Barca: 13032
Real: 9652
1.35:1

So if you discount the team style factor the ratio is about 1.3:1, why is to be expected with Messi playing more centrally than Ronaldo.
 
Five tap in goals by Messi? I'm outraged :mad:
 
Sly said:
Five tap in goals by Messi? I'm outraged :mad:
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"Tap-ins" and "excluding penalties". :lol:

A table tailor-made to discussions in forums these days. That would be mocked in a traditional newspaper.
 
Arruda said:
"Tap-ins" and "excluding penalties". :lol:

A table tailor-made to discussions in forums these days. That would be mocked in a traditional newspaper.
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Indeed. I doubt i'll post much here but it's a good move by the mods.
 
Ronaldo only even got back in the equation through Messi's injuries and Barca's turmoil. Ronaldo really hasn't improved as a player in the last couple of years imo.
 
It actually angers me how some can watch both players and think Ronaldo is better than Messi. Both great goalscorers but it's clear who the better, all round attacker is. When Ronaldo's dribbling through teams or playing unbelievable passes every week then we'll talk.

People are of course entitled to their opinion but when it's based purely on goals it's fecking nonsense.
 
Snake Plissken said:
Ronaldo only even got back in the equation through Messi's injuries and Barca's turmoil. Ronaldo really hasn't improved as a player in the last couple of years imo.
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Agreed. His consistency in goalscoring is impressive though, but that's it. His overall play has regressed a whole lot the last few years IMO.

As for this thread, this is like comparing Johan Cruyff to Gerd Müller and there's no doubt who people regard as the better player overall.
 
It's not even a debate, Ronaldo has turned into a very effective poacher and Messi is playing a variety of roles for Barcelona while keeping up the same numbers as Ronaldo but doing a whole lot more for his team in games.

If you cut the service off to Ronaldo and Messi, Messi will still find a way to put up ridiculous numbers up while Ronaldo wont. Messi is creating and finishing a lot of the plays at Barcelona while Ronaldo is just finishing.
 
Snake Plissken said:
Ronaldo only even got back in the equation through Messi's injuries and Barca's turmoil. Ronaldo really hasn't improved as a player in the last couple of years imo.
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:lol: Are injuries not part of the game? Fitness is another aspect that Ronaldo is well ahead of Messi.

Barca's turmoil? What exactly do you mean by that? A club who can afford 80m on a single player are hardly in turmoil.
 
It's about time we had somewhere to post about Messi and Ronaldo.

Anyway, Messi wins.
 
Cal? said:
:lol: Are injuries not part of the game? Fitness is another aspect that Ronaldo is well ahead of Messi.

Barca's turmoil? What exactly do you mean by that? A club who can afford 80m on a single player are hardly in turmoil.
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Yeah, hence why I said they helped Ronaldo get back in it. Are you simple?

All the shit that went on with their board, transfer embargo, his tax nonsense added to that.

Cal away and lie down son, you're hopeless in these debates, you never offer anything up to back up your points. You jump in, post a pile of nonsense, call people fanbois then disappear again.

As for fitness, well you can't magically avoid injuries, often it is purely down to luck, unless of course Ronaldo's taking banned substances you know of?
 
Cal? said:
:lol: Are injuries not part of the game? Fitness is another aspect that Ronaldo is well ahead of Messi.

Barca's turmoil? What exactly do you mean by that? A club who can afford 80m on a single player are hardly in turmoil.
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If Cristiano Ronaldo's fitness is so much better than Messi's then why has he made 5 less league appearances since he joined Real Madrid?

Must be getting a bit embarrassing for you being wrong.
 
Snake Plissken said:
Yeah, hence why I said they helped Ronaldo get back in it. Are you simple?

All the shit that went on with their board, transfer embargo, his tax nonsense added to that.

Cal away and lie down son, you're hopeless in these debates, you never offer anything up to back up your points. You jump in, post a pile of nonsense, call people fanbois then disappear again.

As for fitness, well you can't magically avoid injuries, often it is purely down to luck, unless of course Ronaldo's taking banned substances you know of?
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The transfer embargo that hasn't actually come into effect yet? Sure that's affected Messi's performances in the past seasons. :lol:

Now his tax issue wasn't his fault? :lol:

Generally a player's fitness has a lot to do with if he's injury prone or not. Messi was the one who took growth hormones, never mind one of the best player ever, he wouldn't even play professionally if he was born in earlier decades.
 
Bob Loblaw said:
If Cristiano Ronaldo's fitness is so much better than Messi's then why has he made 5 less league appearances since he joined Real Madrid?

Must be getting a bit embarrassing for you being wrong.
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It's called squad rotation, top clubs do it, do you not realise?

Unlike a certain someone, Ronaldo doesn't throw a strop against his manager when rested.
 
Cal? said:
It's called squad rotation, top clubs do it, do you not realise?

Unlike a certain someone, Ronaldo doesn't throw a strop against his manager when rested.
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You mean the guy who's threw water bottles when subbed by managers? Pipe down.

He missed a few months of his first season through injury and he missed a good chunk of last season through injury, which is still potentially an issue. Otherwise he had a solid record, just like Messi has had a solid record over the same period bar one or two spells under Tito and Tata.
 
Both top 3 best players ever but Messi is number 1 hands down.

Ronaldo is the best player currently right now though, his team are winning trophies which Barca don't seem to be doing right now which helps. The numbers he is putting up are also crazy, he is on course to score 50+ goals for a 6th consecutive season which I don't think has ever been done before.

In 2012 Messi scored 91 goals and had feck knows how many assists which means by himself he contributed over 100 goals in 1 year lmao, This isn't even a debate if you compare peaks of both players.
 
SonnyTheHaloPro said:
Both top 3 best players ever but Messi is number 1 hands down.

Ronaldo is the best player currently right now though, his team are winning trophies which Barca don't seem to be doing right now which helps. The numbers he is putting up are also crazy, he is on course to score 50+ goals for a 6th consecutive season which I don't think has ever been done before.

In 2012 Messi scored 91 goals and had feck knows how many assists which means by himself he contributed over 100 goals in 1 year lmao, This isn't even a debate if you compare peaks of both players.
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Considering they compete for mostly the same trophies, it tends to be how things work.

Yet in 2012 Barca won the all important Copa del Rey and nothing else...
 
Cal? said:
It's called squad rotation, top clubs do it, do you not realise?

Unlike a certain someone, Ronaldo doesn't throw a strop against his manager when rested.
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Yeah he does. He even did it at United, remember him throwing a pathetic tantrum when brought off against Man City because it meant Anelka went on to finish top scorer in the PL. Keep re-writing history though
 
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