and? defending is just stopping the opposition from "goalscoring"
Hmm... time to do something else then... until Barca or Real's next games then...every 6th post in this thead is cal?'s
Messi v Ronaldo | Contains double your daily salt allowance
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik (@Rood) is joined by CEO Duncan Drasdo and Financial Director Andy Green from the Manchester United Supporters Trust for a special episode on all things behind the scenes at Old Trafford including a brief history of MUST and their aims today, views on INEOS and Sir Jim Ratcliffe so far, and the Old Trafford regeneration.
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Ronaldo had a shocking WC and a shocking CL final. He wasn't just bad he was terrible.
Great post I have always hated the idea that Manchester United of those years were just a one man squad.Cristiano was great but, the strongest part of those teams were the defense. Van Der Saar in goal, Ferdinand/Vidic central defense, EVRA at LB and Carrick often screening the defense. And in 2011 once all those players were fit and in form again United went back to the CL final.
To be fair, our 2011 team was vastly inferior to that of 2007-2009, although that was more than just Ronaldo. We'd also lost Tevez, Carrick was far from the best form of his career, Giggs/Scholes were getting older, and even Vidic and Ferdinand - while still excellent a lot of the time - probably weren't at their imperious best from the three successive title years.
Ronaldo was definitely a massive part of that team, and was undoubtedly the best player in it by a long distance, although yeah, I don't think "papering over the cracks" is really the correct term. The weakest area of the team was probably in central midfield actually at the time.
and? defending is just stopping the opposition from "goalscoring"
Hmm... time to do something else then... until Barca or Real's next games then...
yeah and you're telling me their defence is what got them there, and not the guys who scored those vital goals. You're hopeless
Completely false. His form for Argentina in 2012 was definitely on par with, if not better than, his club form at the time (scoring at a similar-ish rate of over 1.00 gpg, but putting in a lot more effort than for Barça). In 2013/14 his NT form was clearly similar to his club form, in that he was still very decisive in most games but it was probably his weakest season in terms of performances since 2008.
Basically ever since the 2011 Copa América fiasco and the subsequent appointment of Sabella, who immediately gave Messi the captain's armband, he's been playing at a very similar performance level to his Barça one (also maintaining a very good scoring ratio, basically twice as high as pre-2011).
Yep, his record since 2012 has been 29 games and 26 goals, which shows he's capable of delivering with Argentina. Spot on.
The player of the tournament should be awarded to the top scorer, with the runner up being the second highest scorer.
After all, scoring is the be all and end all. Forget everything else, who cares.
Ye 99.9% possession means nothing.
He still dribbles occasionally. Off the top of my head this season, his goal vs Levante, his assist for Benzema vs Malaga and his goal vs Rayo (yeah the keeper made a mess of it and it is not the most aesthetically pleasing goal but Ronaldo still had to cut in across the defender to get his shot off) came from beating people. There were other occasions where he went on a good run but nothing came from it in the end, but yeah, I agree that I would like to see him dribble more also.
It wasn't just United where Ronaldo used to dribble regularly though. His first season at Madrid contained lots of goals that came from dribbles. It was when Mourinho came to the club that he seemed to reduce the amount he took on players, perhaps in a bid to lessen the strain on his body so that he can play more matches throughout the season (when Mourinho came to the club the amount of matches the team played in a season increased greatly due to Madrid going much further in both the CL and the Copa) as well as Madrid playing very fast, counter-attacking football under Mourinho and he probably wanted players to release the ball quickly rather than attempt to take on other players so as to not slow down the counter-attacks.
If you have the time (its 4 and a half minutes so not too bad), here are the goals from his first season at Madrid. There are a lot of greats goal in there that have come from dribbling as well as some nice ones from long range.
Rogerio Ceni is the best goalkeeper in history too.
And Darren Bent is better than Dennis Bergkamp.
POTT has never been given to a player whose team went out in the QFs. Had they reached the semis, however, I think James would've won it.
But it should have been Robben obviously.
I'd have given it to Sneijder.
Did anybody else watch the messi show today... Three goals another ruled offside (incorrectly) missed a sitter and got an assist for neymars goal (plus a great suarez strike at the end)
He looked back close to his best today and now only 2 league goals behind ronaldo (think messi already has more in the season)
It's great having them both in such form this season
He looked back close to his best today and now only 2 league goals behind ronaldo (think messi already has more in the season)
It's great having them both in such form this season
Him admitting to diving against Mexico didn't help his case, maybe.
Is this even a thing anymore?
In 2010 maybe but he was poor in 2014.
Ronaldo was indeed more exciting to watch back then but now hes an efficient killing machine. People forget that Messi is two and a half years younger than Ronaldo so I wonder when/if we'll see Messi changing his approach as well like Ronnie did.
Nah. As far as I remember, Riquelme was the main man for Argentina back then.
Anyway, Messi on WC2014 was easily (and by a distance) better than Ronaldo on WC2006.
I don't remember Ronaldo being anything special in 2006 to be fair. They squeezed past England and Holland without much of an input from him, helping to have Rooney sent off aside. They didn't even win a medal and Cal has always insisted on judging players based on trophies.
Funny that he wants to judge Messi based on goals in 2014 when Ronaldo scored one goal in 2006 - a penalty kick against Iran to make it 2-0. Double standards at their absolute extreme.
Funny that he wants to judge Messi based on goals in 2014 when Ronaldo scored one goal in 2006 - a penalty kick against Iran to make it 2-0. Double standards at their absolute extreme.
But I feel Messi could still play in a number 10/playmaker role and be devastating when the speed goes. Most great number 10's don't really have speed in them.
Ronaldo changed his approach a long, long time ago.
Ronaldo's development is rather atypical for all time great attackers though. Most of the great attacking players started out scoring a lot and added more and more playmaking to their game once they got more mature. They all realised that it's the part of the game where you have the most influence on your team's performance level, that it's where you can help your team the most if it's struggling. Cruyff, Pele, Maradona, Di Stefano the obvious examples. They all still scored goals of course, a lot actually and many crucial ones, but they did so much more at their peak. If you look at Pele's career, at the world cup in '58 he was topscorer of his team, yet it's Didi, who is considered as Brazil's best player. But in '70, when Pele basically defined the number 10 role with his performances, he was clearly Brazil's best player despite the fact that Jairzinho scored the most goals in the team.
Messi already is easily the best playmaker in the game today. As crazy as his goalscoring record is, it's not even close to a full reflection of his performance level and his influence on his teams and there are no signs at all that he wants to get rid of the responsibility in midfield and solely focus on goalscoring. I'd say it's very unlikely that we'll ever see Messi changing his approach the way Ronnie did. It would be pretty sad actually.
Sorry, just logged on now again bud. Hahahaha, yeah, Cal? in "just a little" shocker in CR bias
Great summary and exactly why Messi is, IMO, in a different league to CR.
many top drawer goals there, but i have to say that of those 33 goals around 7 or 8 where from free kicks, most of those were amazing, why did he lose the abilittie to score from free kicks? i mean, havent see him score one of those in a long time and everytime he is about to take one i think that bale might do a better job
Nail on head.
Regardless of their scoring records being similar, Messi is simply the better player. Goals are half his game. Unlike Ronaldo, I expect him to excel even when he's well into his 30s. Just a superb all round player.
Balu's post is an artificial exaltation of the number 10 or "playmaking" position above all others, and is based on personal opinion.
The way I've always seen it is that Ronaldo is an excellent wide forward, and Messi is an excellent playmaker from the center of the attack. Place Messi in Ronaldo's current role and it would be a massive waste of his abilities. Vice versa.
Ronaldo is in a horrible rut of form, and Messi seems to have a chip on his shoulder, making Cal look foolish. However basing one's opinion on form and role in the attack is shortsighted. Replace Ronaldo at his best with any other winger in world football and I wager the efficiency of Real's counter attack would plummet. You can't categorize him as a poacher; ask Hernandez how his stint in Real is working out for him.
The way I've always seen it is that Ronaldo is an excellent wide forward, and Messi is an excellent playmaker from the center of the attack. Place Messi in Ronaldo's current role and it would be a massive waste of his abilities. Vice versa.
Ronaldo is in a horrible rut of form, and Messi seems to have a chip on his shoulder, making Cal look foolish. However basing one's opinion on form and role in the attack is shortsighted. Replace Ronaldo at his best with any other winger in world football and I wager the efficiency of Real's counter attack would plummet. You can't categorize him as a poacher; ask Hernandez how his stint in Real is working out for him.
The point people are making is that Messi can do it all. You're right that if you asked him to do Cristiano's role it'd be a waste, but it wouldn't be a role he couldn't perform. Vice versa though...no one in world football could play Messi's role right now other than Messi.
Ranking Messi as the best isn't a kneejerk reaction, even at his very best Cristiano hasn't even come close to performing as well as Messi at his best. Scoring as much maybe, but that's where the comparisons end.
And that is where I, being a pedantic cnut, disagree. He was absolutely mercurial throughout the 2011-12 season when they won the league, dragging Real through games they had no business winning. Under Pellegrini he had more of a balanced role in the team and he performed it to perfection. I would still give my vote to Messi, but the gap is not as big as it is made out to be. If it was, that would imply that Messi throughout his career outshined every other footballer on the planet, even in his peak years with Guardiola, which I cannot believe. For one, Xavi was on the same tier IMO. But I digress...
Spot on! I always feel that if I want to tell somebody about how great Ronaldo is, I would have to use numbers and stats and records. With Messi, I'd just have to show a video of him with the ball at his feet.
Agree with this completely.
Are you a United fan? I find it staggering a United fan would say such a thing.
Messi's playing on the wing now, with the freedom to roam. Just like Ronaldo.
I'm pretty sure Messi would be equally as effective tbh, doesn't take anything away from Ronaldo though, still a beast of a player
I don't know what else Xavi could have done in that 3 year period to be honest. His influence was stamped on that Barcelona and Spain team. This is the hyperbole I'm talking about. Someone explain it to me.
That's why the companison is a bit meaningless.
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