Mesut Özil

This bit about him running. How far and how many high intensity sprints? And how does it compare with players that play the same position at other clubs? Or even at Arsenal?

You can't just allude to facts in defence of a player without actually presenting them.

He definitely looks like a player who isn't putting a shift in. Feel free to debunk this "myth"
 
I don't remember any media campaign against Oezil early in the season when a simple 5 yard pass would result in cooing noises in the press about what an amazing acquisition Arsenal had made. It'd be idiotic to think he won't get better over time, but any criticism he has been getting has been because of sub-par performances from a £43m player, not a vast anti-Arsenal conspiracy. Arsenal always get an easy ride in the London media.
 
It's pretty clear what happened. He started well and the penalty just destroyed his confidence.

Perhaps he's just struggling with being the man everyone looks to dig them out? He's never been the main man before, maybe he doesn't quite have the mentality for it right now.

His talent however is undeniable.
 
alastair said:
I really don't see it as fair criticism, no. What's interesting about last night was how him and Cazorla discussed who would take the penalty and Ozil was the one that stepped up to the plate and did it. No mention of his 'bravery' or his 'desire to help the team' there. Thought not.

Most are slating his work-rate. All I ever hear is how he doesn't run, and this is from serious journalists. When they invariably discover that he does run, they come up with some stupid line like 'oh yeh but it doesn't count because he's just going through the motions' or some such rubbish.

This is as clear a media witchhunt as we've had in this country for a long time. Whenever we lose a game, there's only one person to blame. There's only one player trending.

It infiltrates into the ground as well. It's like bloody E-Coli. You get Arsenal fans slating him for not winning the ball back whenever he goes near a player. Some of the cretins we had in the ground last night were an embarrassment.

It's hatchet job after hatchet job and it shows no sign of abating.
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Not that long. DDG last year.
 
Jippy said:
Not that long. DDG last year.
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True. They took a couple of errors and made him out to be an awful keeper. No-one talks about him any more.

I don't want to come across in this thread like I don't think Ozil can do no wrong. He can. He shouldn't be taking penalties for one. His overall contribution is hugely positive though - and that never comes across.
 
Pogue Mahone said:
This bit about him running. How far and how many high intensity sprints? And how does it compare with players that play the same position at other clubs? Or even at Arsenal?

You can't just allude to facts in defence of a player without actually presenting them.

He definitely looks like a player who isn't putting a shift in. Feel free to debunk this "myth"
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It is a myth. I watch him every week.

Normally I can at least see the other side of the debate. On this occasion, I just can't. People really think he doesn't put a shift in?

Sprinting is irrelevant. You can't sprint if there's someone in front of you. That's just rubbish. As I say, I have no idea what the argument is. He doesn't run enough? He clearly does. Just because he's not running after dead balls in the corner just to check they've gone out doesn't mean he's lazy.

On a weekly basis, he does a hell of a lot more running than someone like Cazorla or even Wilshere. Ozil's amazing at running. He'd win the Ballon D'or for it.
 
It's an interesting thought that he maybe doesn't have the mentality to be the main man at a big club. Pressure doesn't seem to bring the best out of him, recently anyway.
 
alastair said:
True. They took a couple of errors and made him out to be an awful keeper. No-one talks about him any more.

I don't want to come across in this thread like I don't think Ozil can do no wrong. He can. He shouldn't be taking penalties for one. His overall contribution is hugely positive though - and that never comes across.
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His penalties for Germany were all impressive, imo. Stepped up in the semifinal against Italy when we were 2:0 down for example. It was just an idiotic decision to let him shoot against Neuer, because they know each other so well and in that case it's an advantage for the keeper, imo.

I remember how Robben explained after the semifinal against Real in 2012, why it's a bad idea to shoot a 2nd important penalty in a game, when it went to penalites after extra time. The goalkeeper has an advantage with the 2nd penalty. Ronaldo missed his 2nd in that game, Robben didn't take one, Bayern went through.
 
Balu said:
His penalties for Germany were all impressive, imo. Stepped up in the semifinal against Italy when we were 2:0 down for example. It was just an idiotic decision to let him shoot against Neuer, because they know each other so well and in that case it's an advantage for the keeper, imo.

I remember how Robben explained after the semifinal against Real in 2012, why it's a bad idea to shoot a 2nd important penalty in a game, when it went to penalites after extra time. The goalkeeper has an advantage with the 2nd penalty. Ronaldo missed his 2nd in that game, Robben didn't take one, Bayern went through.
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Interesting, because it seems like a real weakness for him here. He basically gets them somewhere on target to avoid the embarrassment of missing completely.

I agree completely with your second paragraph as well. Keepers prepare so well for them now - more and more they at least go in the right direction because they've seen the videos.
 
alastair said:
It is a myth. I watch him every week.

Normally I can at least see the other side of the debate. On this occasion, I just can't. People really think he doesn't put a shift in?

Sprinting is irrelevant. You can't sprint if there's someone in front of you. That's just rubbish. As I say, I have no idea what the argument is. He doesn't run enough? He clearly does. Just because he's not running after dead balls in the corner just to check they've gone out doesn't mean he's lazy.

On a weekly basis, he does a hell of a lot more running than someone like Cazorla or even Wilshere. Ozil's amazing at running. He'd win the Ballon D'or for it.
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I think it is hard to argue against the fact that he has faded form-wise since the start of the season but maybe that is to be expected as he adjusts to a more physical league that doesn't have a winter break.
I think the impact he has had on the team mentally and morale-wise shouldn't be underestimated though.
 
I think I'd say he is a confidence player. And right now he has none.

He's also missing people to pass to in the current line up, Walcott in particular.
 
I just think that Özil and the EPL is a bad fit. Not because he isn't suited to this game, as he impressed early in the season, but the ruthless media here is starting to get to him. Somewhere I read that he really wanted to show everybody how good he is and to impress the media. If you put that much pressure on yourself, it mostly ends in a disaster. Look at the contrast to Kroos. In Germany some papers say he is the best thing since sliced bread others say Bayern should just let him go as he is replaceable. He went on to have a world class display and said in the after game interview that he doesn't care one bit what the media writes and he knows how important he is to the team.

Don't forget it's also only his first season in the EPL. Hazard destroyed the league in his first games and went on to have a mediocre rest of the season. Özil could be the same. He is already one of the best 10s in the world, if he becomes better in the mentality wise and works on the effectiveness of his defensive distribution, he is going to be some player. I can see him tearing the league apart next season, with a world class striker and Ramsey, Walcott coming back.

Also I think Wenger needs to start to rotate him. Keep him fresh and let Cazorla/Wilshere play in some EPL/Cup games.
 
People always over hype players like Ozil, so that when they don't do well they're criticized as going missing etc. If you look at his contributions between his final two years at Bremen, and his last two years at Madrid, he's been fantastic. Not the world beater who some were getting giddy about in the old Ozil threads, but certainly one the best players Arsenal have brought in over the years.

Now we're seeing Kroos as the new poster boy. How long until he has a few off performances until the pitchfork brigade reemerge.
 
Jippy said:
I think it is hard to argue against the fact that he has faded form-wise since the start of the season but maybe that is to be expected as he adjusts to a more physical league that doesn't have a winter break.
I think the impact he has had on the team mentally and morale-wise shouldn't be underestimated though.
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I agree with that and would argue that his reputation and price tag has had a bigger impact at Arsenal than anything he's done on the pitch.
 
Pogue Mahone said:
This bit about him running. How far and how many high intensity sprints? And how does it compare with players that play the same position at other clubs? Or even at Arsenal?

You can't just allude to facts in defence of a player without actually presenting them.

He definitely looks like a player who isn't putting a shift in. Feel free to debunk this "myth"
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This reminds me a bit of the criticism I saw during a halftime show, when the pundits analyzed Mata's contribution (it was American). People have debunked the myth that he never tracked back or made tackles by showing he made the most tackles and interceptions during our first game, as well as during quite a few chelsea games too. Yet when they showed him tracking back during one of our games (I think it was Arsenal), they showed him tracking back, which is good, but he was almost doing it aimlessly, without specifically marking a zone or a player if you like. This is not slating Mata's contribution, but people saying Ozil covered the 3rd most amount of ground and always tracked back, but whether he was doing it effectively or what was required of him is another matter. He can constantly be jogging around which will rack up the covering-ground stat, but like you said, he may not be making many high-intensity sprints which didn't look to be the case.
 
I think Ozil is class, and there's no denying the impact he had on Arsenal at the start of the season. But there's also no denying that he's been a big dissapointment these last few months. Here's a guy who cost £42 million and who has had over 30 assists in a season before just not performing anywhere near his potential. He's also been dire in pretty much every one of Arsenal's big games this season. So far his season surely is not going as well as Arsenal fans would have hoped for.
 
alastair said:
I really don't see it as fair criticism, no. What's interesting about last night was how him and Cazorla discussed who would take the penalty and Ozil was the one that stepped up to the plate and did it. No mention of his 'bravery' or his 'desire to help the team' there. Thought not.
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Ok, why do you think him not performing in big games is unfair?
 
Ozil and his 'bravery' or 'desire to help the team' should definitely have been lauded. Bravo Ozil, Bravo! You are an officer and a gentlemen.

Winning the pen, the nonchalant walk, hitting a meek shot, and then sulking the rest of the game. All acts of unparalleled bravery. Take a bow, Sir!

Can you please print this and show it to Ozil at the next Arsenal game, Arsenal fan?
 
I think some are being way too harsh on Ozil. He's a fantastic player who's going through a rough patch right now. First season was always likely to be difficult for him an I expect him to do a lot better next season when he's acclimatised to the league.
 
Ozil is an excellent player. He was good before the sending off. Obviously he should have done better for the penalty, but I don't think he was lazy at all. The stat that shows that he covered a lot (edit) of ground shows this. However, it doesn't show that he was poor at tracking runners. I wouldn't call that laziness, though. And having watched Ozil at Real Madrid, he's really not the best player to stick to the left to defend. I still get the feeling that a lot of people on here expect him to win games in a Messi/Ronaldo-like manner. He's not going to do that. One of the reasons his form has suffered is because of the lack of runners. No Walcott or Ramsey. He got a bit of movement from Sanogo yesterday, but it's a similar situation at Manchester United. We'll happily criticise the system, but when Ozil plays in a side with little movement, why can't we use the same reason?
 
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peterstorey said:
He made a really big cock-up which probably cost us the game and the tie cf Bergkamp in the 99 FA cup semi. That's the long and short of it.
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To be fair to the DB, at least he forced the keeper to make a top save. Ozil's effort was as weak as they come.
 
MoneyMay said:
Ozil is an excellent player. He was good before the sending off. Obviously he should have done better for the penalty, but I don't think he was lazy at all. The stat that shows that he covered the most ground shows this. However, it doesn't show that he was poor at tracking runners. I wouldn't call that laziness, though. And having watched Ozil at Real Madrid, he's really not the best player to stick to the left to defend. I still get the feeling that a lot of people on here expect him to win games in a Messi/Ronaldo-like manner. He's not going to do that. One of the reasons his form has suffered is because of the lack of runners. No Walcott or Ramsey. He got a bit of movement from Sanogo yesterday, but it's a similar situation at Manchester United. We'll happily criticise the system, but when Ozil plays in a side with little movement, why can't we use the same reason?
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Yes, he was indeed playing well before the sending off. More specifically, he was playing well before Gibbs got injured. Cazorla and Gibbs were putting in a good shift on the left and Ozil was taking the game to Bayern in the centre, behind Sanogo. He plays best when someone is making runs behind the defence. Before the sending off, Ox was doing that well. It would have been a great game still had Gibbs played the full 90 minutes. As it turned out, lack of depth in defence cost us.
 
alastair is correct about english media's campaign against certain players, exaggerating every single mistake. DDG is a perfect example of the same. Ozil is the new target simply because of his fees.

But they are some legitimate point to be made about him not withstanding media exaggerations -

- If Ozil was at any other club, Pete would most surely be singling him out as another player who lacks stamina to last the whole 90 mins without his level dropping too much
- There have been concerns at both Real and Germany about him failing to make a telling impact in big games. Balu on here voiced concerns about him even before he moved to Arsenal. Madrid had a reason or two to transfer him out as well. I don't think it is due to lack of quality but perhaps certain weakness in mental strength.

He is still a quality player. The change from crying that we did not land him to mocking him now is typical kneejerk reaction for this forum. He is still pretty young and has plenty of time to improve his mental strength at least, if he is willing to that is.
 
Amar__ said:
You're blaming people for criticiseing Özil and in the same post you are saying that Mata was terrible against you, even though that was better performance than pretty much any of Özil's big game performances this year.
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Yeah sure it was pal....

sullydnl said:
If I was an Arsenal fan I really wouldn't be worried about Ozil. A foreign player widely said to lack physical robustness comes to the far more physical PL and still has the third most assists so far in the league? Despite not actually playing to anywhere near his best? He is also young enough to develop further. Nope, Ozil will be grand.

Arsenal fans should be more worried about their options up front and the lack of balance in midfield. Both of which impact directly on Ozil btw.
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Spot on, I think without Ramsey & Theo we are really missing out on their dynamic play and how they get in behind the back four. Too many times Ozil is just having to bounce balls off players around him because nobody moves, our attacking game has been really average without Ramsey/Theo this season.

noodlehair said:
I haven't been that impressed whenever I've watched him, either for you, Real Madrid or Germany. He looks classy on the ball, but in terms of his actual performance and contribution to a game, I've not seen anything to justify the reputation at all.

I was saying this when you signed him and he's hardly done much to make me think I should shut up/sneakily change my mind.

The only thing I've learnt about him this season is that he apparently likes to sulk.

A number of your other players have stepped up this season, and Ozil's signing and slightly mad fee has meant he's managed to worm away with some of the credit for that.
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I don't think in the past 5 seasons any player has set up more goals than Ozil. If you're looking for a player to grab the game and take it to the opposition then you don't understand what kind of a player he is. Ozil has improved our attacking play whether you like it or not, his best asset is making players around him play better so maybe it isn't a coincidence others around him have got better with him on the pitch. Also no other Arsenal player has set up more goals than him so just maybe he isn't as bad as some think
 
Loon said:
Probably help him. Flamini tried a bit of tough love last night.
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Mertesacker's previously bawled him out for sloping off without clapping the away fans. When any player gets such blatant public dressing downs from two different team-mates, chances are it's down to frustrations that have built up over time, in training and on match-days.
 
If Arsenal bought Ozil for his defensive capabilities then that's stupid. I doubt that was the case. Stats show that Ozil covered a lot of ground, which for me shows he isn't lazy. He might not have done a great job tracking the runners but that doesnt mean it was because he's lazy, it just means that tracking runners is not his strong point, and pretty much everyone already knows this.

As for the penalty miss, it happens. If it went in, the comments would have been "he's so composed, such a professional at this level blah blah blah".
 
I don't really understand how he can be accused of not being a "big game player" based on last night, he won a penalty, if Cazorla takes it and scores then none of this would be said. Yes Ozil took it and missed, but it wasn't an awful penalty, if Neuer goes early then it's a great penalty, these are the fine margins in football and to make sweeping generalisations based on them is silly. There wasn't anything he or any other player in the world could have done in an attacking sense once Arsenal went down to 10. There's definitely been a witch hunt on here about Ozil, the thread was bumped after we played them despite him playing quite well, it's ridiculous. He's a top player who would walk into our side.

However, where I differ from the other Ozil "apologists" is that I think his performance defensively yesterday was simply a disgrace. I don't care if you aren't the type of player to track runs (what does that even mean? When you play wide it's in your job description), when your team are up against it, down to ten against one of the best sides on the planet and you yourself have missed a penalty, you work your arse off to rectify your error and help your team. Not once did he track Rafinha to the byline, not once, I'm not interested in what the stats say about how much he ran, Rafinha had the freedom of that right side all second half. Robben got into very dangerous areas twice because Ozil couldn't be bothered to go with him, thankfully for Arsenal he fluffed his lines but it's unacceptable, he was every bit as bad defensively last night as Arshavin. I hope Flamini and Wilshere didn't just leave their arguments with him on the pitch, if he was a teammate of mine I'd have throttled him in the changing room Keane on Veron style.

And just a word on Wenger, I seriously doubt any other top manager would have left him on. Once Arsenal went down to 10 it became a fight, and Ozil is useless in that context. In his press conference Wenger said he could see Ozil struggling after the penalty miss, if he he saw that then why not take him off? I know Ozil's lapses didn't directly result in a goal, but Bayern continually getting down that flank so easily resulted in more work for everyone else and I'm convinced fatigue, both mental and physical, played a part in the second goal. Ozil was a defensive passenger in that second half, you can't have passengers when you're down to 10.
 
Wenger:

"What can I say? He missed his penalty. I prefer people who run properly at the ball."

"Bayern were on the ropes. We had three good chances in the first 15 minutes. And I feel to make them more insecure we needed to score that penalty but he missed it."

"He was affected by it. I think he wanted to do so well that it affected him. You could see even five or 10 minutes later he was still shaking his head. It had a huge impact on his performance."
 
Mickeza said:
I don't really understand how he can be accused of not being a "big game player" based on last night, he won a penalty, if Cazorla takes it and scores then none of this would be said. Yes Ozil took it and missed, but it wasn't an awful penalty, if Neuer goes early then it's a great penalty, these are the fine margins in football and to make sweeping generalisations based on them is silly. There wasn't anything he or any other player in the world could have done in an attacking sense once Arsenal went down to 10. There's definitely been a witch hunt on here about Ozil, the thread was bumped after we played them despite him playing quite well, it's ridiculous. He's a top player who would walk into our side.

However, where I differ from the other Ozil "apologists" is that I think his performance defensively yesterday was simply a disgrace. I don't care if you aren't the type of player to track runs (what does that even mean? When you play wide it's in your job description), when your team are up against it, down to ten against one of the best sides on the planet and you yourself have missed a penalty, you work your arse off to rectify your error and help your team. Not once did he track Rafinha to the byline, not once, I'm not interested in what the stats say about how much he ran, Rafinha had the freedom of that right side all second half. Robben got into very dangerous areas twice because Ozil couldn't be bothered to go with him, thankfully for Arsenal he fluffed his lines but it's unacceptable, he was every bit as bad defensively last night as Arshavin. I hope Flamini and Wilshere didn't just leave their arguments with him on the pitch, if he was a teammate of mine I'd have throttled him in the changing room Keane on Veron style.

And just a word on Wenger, I seriously doubt any other top manager would have left him on. Once Arsenal went down to 10 it became a fight, and Ozil is useless in that context. In his press conference Wenger said he could see Ozil struggling after the penalty miss, if he he saw that then why not take him off? I know Ozil's lapses didn't directly result in a goal, but Bayern continually getting down that flank so easily resulted in more work for everyone else and I'm convinced fatigue, both mental and physical, played a part in the second goal. Ozil was a defensive passenger in that second half, you can't have passengers when you're down to 10.
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Well that's just ignorant. Those are cold hard facts.
 
The pattern of the game meant that all of the biggest distances would be covered by Arsenal players.

Ozil had to be right up there because when Arsenal were still an attacking force he was involved in all of their breaks upfield and when they were down to 10 men, him and Sanoga seemed to be the two Arsenal players with most license to get forwards. Hence he covered a lot of distance.

Didn't stop him aimlessly strolling round the pitch for most of the game with a face like a slapped arse, mind you.
 
Ofcourse he ran. He's hardly going to stand while players run past. That doesnt mean he put in a good shift. I thought he was a defensive liability specially in the 2nd half. To be fair to him, I blame Wenger as I thought he should have subbed him as it was obvious he wasnt going to play much of a role but he didnt.
 
I guess to give it some perspective, seeing as this thread is 90% United opinions, I'm pretty excited by Ozil still. I see what he's doing wrong, and he is doing a lot wrong, but nothing that says to me this guy is out of his depth. He has the quality, and the manager to get it out of him. I'm pessimistic about a few in our squad, but not bulgy eyed Mesut.
 
Ozil is
Archie Leach said:
I guess to give it some perspective, seeing as this thread is 90% United opinions, I'm pretty excited by Ozil still. I see what he's doing wrong, and he is doing a lot wrong, but nothing that says to me this guy is out of his depth. He has the quality, and the manager to get it out of him. I'm pessimistic about a few in our squad, but not bulgy eyed Mesut.
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don't worry about ozil over here, he s got lot of fanboys...him and hazard are considered some sort of demi gods. :)
 
Balu said:
I agree that he wasn't a failure, but did he really improve? I still see exactly the same player with exactly the same strengths and flaws, that we all saw at the worldcup in 2010. There's no development so far, imo. His finishing is as bad as ever, his workrate hasn't changed, same with his defensive awareness and his mentality. It's still all about movement and great passing. That's the most annoying part (from a German perspective) about him in the last 3 years, especially if you look at how players like Reus, Müller, Kroos improved.
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Tbh I'm mostly basing that off what the journalists covering Spanish football had to say about him when he signed for Arsenal. There seemed to be unanimous agreement among them that Ozil had improved under Mourinho, basically had become tougher, more competetive and more tactically intelligent. Maybe this was just the Mourinho effect and it has dissapeared now but I think it's too early to say that for sure. If they're right then you'd have to say he improved at Madrid.

I don't want to make excuses for a very poor performance yesterday (or the fact that he's been far from his best recently) but it looks to me like a lot of it could be down to fatigue and low confidence. The fact that Wenger says the penalty miss effected him so much yesterday would seem to confirm this, he seemed anxious. If tracking back was the only problem you might say otherwise but his touch and passing was off too.

As for the laziness argument, I've seen quite a few Arsenal games this season and Ozil consistently seemed to be among the top Arsenal players in terms of ground covered. It surprised me as we all know that Ozil is supposed to have stamina issues.
 
Snake Plissken said:
It's pretty clear what happened. He started well and the penalty just destroyed his confidence.

Perhaps he's just struggling with being the man everyone looks to dig them out? He's never been the main man before, maybe he doesn't quite have the mentality for it right now.

His talent however is undeniable.
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Thats not the mark of a superb player. Top pkayers can deal with things like that, he wasnt forced to take an awful pen.

This isn;t about one or two games its about the whole season,he has done nothing to suggest hes at the top level.

Whether hes capable of the top level doesnt matter, he has been very poor in an Arsenal shirt and thats just how it is.

Mata has performed better in 4 games for United than Mesut has the whole season, I dont think the criticism is unjust its not as if hes some newbie coming into an alien world, its more his attitude, it brings out bad feelings in people and teammates. Does it not concern Arsenal fans the amount of times so far his team mates have been screaming at him?
 
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