5th or 6th I reckon, pending injuries.
Mid-season assessment and your expectations
- Thread starter Irwin99
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik (@Rood) is joined by CEO Duncan Drasdo and Financial Director Andy Green from the Manchester United Supporters Trust for a special episode on all things behind the scenes at Old Trafford including a brief history of MUST and their aims today, views on INEOS and Sir Jim Ratcliffe so far, and the Old Trafford regeneration.
I agree lovely seeing Boy George banging in them goals.
So:
League: Absolutely hopeless. We're not getting Top 4 and have no idea how to play against side that sit deep. Top 4 is as good as gone and I reckon we'll finish 5th or 6th at the best.
Europa League: Walked the group as we should. We're going to give this competition the beans as it's our only shot at Champions League football next year. I don't fancy us to get past some of the trickier opponents but we're not that bad a side when we raise our game so we've got to pray.
League Cup: We would be nice to win a trophy and if we get through the double header vs City we've got every chance. Still won't make up for the other failings.
FA cup: TBC
League: Absolutely hopeless. We're not getting Top 4 and have no idea how to play against side that sit deep. Top 4 is as good as gone and I reckon we'll finish 5th or 6th at the best.
Europa League: Walked the group as we should. We're going to give this competition the beans as it's our only shot at Champions League football next year. I don't fancy us to get past some of the trickier opponents but we're not that bad a side when we raise our game so we've got to pray.
League Cup: We would be nice to win a trophy and if we get through the double header vs City we've got every chance. Still won't make up for the other failings.
FA cup: TBC
If we stay the course, I think we’ll finish around 7th or 8th. I don’t see us making any substantial signings in January, but I hope I’m wrong. Cups seem unlikely, and didn’t mean much in the bigger scheme of things during José or LVG’s tenure, so does it really matter much?
Europa will depend entirely on the draw. If we get as lucky as last time, and the bigger teams like Inter don’t prioritise it, I suppose we could make it to the semis. And then anything could happen. It seems like our only chance to play in the Champions League next season. This team would be humbled against the best in Europe though, and unless our form changes massively between then and now I’m not sure it would matter much for recruitment purposes either. The prospect of joining United must seem pretty dismal to anyone with real ambition, though a more exciting manager could change that.
Personally I think the whole war chest being saved for the “right” players is just more propaganda from Woodward, while he continues the Glazernomics model. Hope I’m wrong about that too.
Europa will depend entirely on the draw. If we get as lucky as last time, and the bigger teams like Inter don’t prioritise it, I suppose we could make it to the semis. And then anything could happen. It seems like our only chance to play in the Champions League next season. This team would be humbled against the best in Europe though, and unless our form changes massively between then and now I’m not sure it would matter much for recruitment purposes either. The prospect of joining United must seem pretty dismal to anyone with real ambition, though a more exciting manager could change that.
Personally I think the whole war chest being saved for the “right” players is just more propaganda from Woodward, while he continues the Glazernomics model. Hope I’m wrong about that too.
Ah man I forgot about that heritage, good shout. Yeah the heritage has been fantastic, again much better than it was under Mourinho.
I predicted 6th and we seem on course for that. Our problems have been pretty predictable.
5th if we sack Ole tomorrow, 10th if we don’t.
Devoid of any expectations -- that should say it all.
6th I was expecting and said the only hope of United finishing 4th is bring in good replacements for Herrera and Lukaku. They weren't brought in during the summer what hope for January?
Winning a cup would be nice, Europa league would be my preferred choice but to win any cup competition you need a certain amount of luck and among other things I don't think Ole is a manager blessed with much luck.
Winning a cup would be nice, Europa league would be my preferred choice but to win any cup competition you need a certain amount of luck and among other things I don't think Ole is a manager blessed with much luck.
We'll finish about where we are now. If Pogba stays and plays as a 10, we'll have more chance of picking up points against teams that sit back, but we'll be very fortunate to repeat the results in return fixtures against teams above us.
Speaking of which, setting out our results in the league so far starting with the team currently top and running down in order to the bottom (omitting us in position 8 and Burnley in 10), you get
DWWWDDW_L_DLWLDLDDWL
and if anyone can paint a clearer picture of what's wrong with us, I'll be surprised. 10 points from 11 games against teams below us is a disgrace. If we can't run at space, we don't win.
Speaking of which, setting out our results in the league so far starting with the team currently top and running down in order to the bottom (omitting us in position 8 and Burnley in 10), you get
DWWWDDW_L_DLWLDLDDWL
and if anyone can paint a clearer picture of what's wrong with us, I'll be surprised. 10 points from 11 games against teams below us is a disgrace. If we can't run at space, we don't win.
Assessment : Butter me arse
Expectations : Butter me arse
Expectations : Butter me arse
We'll be finishing outside the top 4, which will be the main takeaway from the season really - No CL for two consecutive seasons for the first time ever, Adidas deal falls in value by a third and no top players will touch us with a barge pole in the summer. CEO, manager, coaches and many of the players simply aren't good enough. Long way back from here.
Correct.Not being able to break low blocks is a problem we've suffered for donkeys. The only difference now is we don't have Fellaini to lump it up to and attack the second ball. If selling Fellaini = us going backwards as a football club, then sure.
I'm not even an Ole-In guy, but the emotional responses behind the 'going backwards' argument is a bit sad.
7th by January.
I'll try to be optimistic here but not wondering for a miracle.
If :
- no more major injuries.
- no panic buys.
- Get a decent 9 and a 10/8 ( classic 10's are not as available as that ).
- Getting rid of some hopeless cases or at least benching them.
Finally, hoping that Leicester and Chelsea drop some points as a bonus and us not doing it .. if that's not too much asked especially with Ole at the wheel.
Then we can hope that we finish 4th/3rd.
Yet, 7th by June can be realistic also
I'll try to be optimistic here but not wondering for a miracle.
If :
- no more major injuries.
- no panic buys.
- Get a decent 9 and a 10/8 ( classic 10's are not as available as that ).
- Getting rid of some hopeless cases or at least benching them.
Finally, hoping that Leicester and Chelsea drop some points as a bonus and us not doing it .. if that's not too much asked especially with Ole at the wheel.
Then we can hope that we finish 4th/3rd.
Yet, 7th by June can be realistic also
Club is a shambles let’s get that straight.
Lowest ever points tally at this stage yet everybody just seems to plod on like everything is under control. Super Ed with his amazing track record and Ole with all his managerial experience have it all sussed out guys nothing to worry about here.
What a fecking mess.
Lowest ever points tally at this stage yet everybody just seems to plod on like everything is under control. Super Ed with his amazing track record and Ole with all his managerial experience have it all sussed out guys nothing to worry about here.
What a fecking mess.
Not enough players who can score goals, which everyone on the planet except apparently those employed by the club knew.
Added bonus that our centrebacks are actually worse than last season, when they were effectively blamed for everything.
Added bonus that one of them appears literally incapable of passing the ball to a team mate effectively
Added bonus that we still don't appear to bother working on the most basic of things, such as defending corners, or taking throw ins to our own team.
Overall it's hard to say I'm impressed. Some decent attacking (or counter attacking) football in the odd game, but honestly I think that's mostly just down to Rashford's natural improvement and James being a bit better than expected.
Ole says the right things and seems to have a plan, but doesn't appear to be very good at executing it. All well and good saying the players were too slow or lacked intensity, but a year into the job you should really have weeded out basic stuff like selecting players who are not bothering to try hard enough.
Best hope is enough of an improvement to give the Europa League a go, but it's a big ask as so many aspects of our performances are shambolic week after week and never appear to be addressed. When a team can't even practice something as basic as defending or taking a corner, how can you expect them to improve in other areas? It's like hoping someone will get better at being some kind of professional computer hacker when they repeatedly can't even remember their own password.
Added bonus that our centrebacks are actually worse than last season, when they were effectively blamed for everything.
Added bonus that one of them appears literally incapable of passing the ball to a team mate effectively
Added bonus that we still don't appear to bother working on the most basic of things, such as defending corners, or taking throw ins to our own team.
Overall it's hard to say I'm impressed. Some decent attacking (or counter attacking) football in the odd game, but honestly I think that's mostly just down to Rashford's natural improvement and James being a bit better than expected.
Ole says the right things and seems to have a plan, but doesn't appear to be very good at executing it. All well and good saying the players were too slow or lacked intensity, but a year into the job you should really have weeded out basic stuff like selecting players who are not bothering to try hard enough.
Best hope is enough of an improvement to give the Europa League a go, but it's a big ask as so many aspects of our performances are shambolic week after week and never appear to be addressed. When a team can't even practice something as basic as defending or taking a corner, how can you expect them to improve in other areas? It's like hoping someone will get better at being some kind of professional computer hacker when they repeatedly can't even remember their own password.
Expectation to start off was top 4.
Expectation now is top 6.
Mid season assessment: Simply not good enough. We need a new manager and to back him heavily this summer.
Expectation now is top 6.
Mid season assessment: Simply not good enough. We need a new manager and to back him heavily this summer.
We are basically exactly where i predicted us to be after the poor transfer window. I said likely 6th again or possibly lower. This is what happens when you sell your top scorer and a few midfielders and don't replace them. You can hardly expect the team to improve from last year when you do that. I still don't think we will make top 4, and can't see us winning any cups as our lows are very bad.
A top team managed by the worst manager in the league is bound to a mediocre mid table finish.
Finish midtable - around 10th.
Top reds will be happy with the plan and progress and demand more time to instill more mediocrity next season.
Finish midtable - around 10th.
Top reds will be happy with the plan and progress and demand more time to instill more mediocrity next season.
We're showing a shit culture of not giving a rat's arse when we're being outplayed and outgunned by fecking watford
We've shown that we can game raise when the stakes are high (kudos where it's due)
However once the chips are down back to same ol not giving an arse.
If this is called good culture than thanks but no thanks.
Dude. Read the whole post. It's dripping with sarcasm.
6th place and Ole sacked at the end of the season.
He gets 6th and no way hes sacked. The board will see that as 'progress'
Sorry red, hard to tell, there's 50% of us seeing this as a progress
Before the start of the season I said minimum expectations should be top 4 and if he fails that he should be sacked. I will stick to that, no matter what happens in the season or what's the long term plan is, you just can't keep on making excuses for every poor performance. Without short term results you can't build for long terms. Things won't fall in place magically, it's a process and something you see week in week out, on where we are improving as a team or you will have those games where you see clear potential in what we are building.
We had few games like that against top teams but when it comes to the most important part (as weaker teams are more in numbers), getting results against smaller clubs Ole has failed big time.
If he fails to reach top 4, he should be sacked unless we improve so much in playing style, attack, playing as a team.
League cup is a tough ask as we play against City.
Europa league - Expectation should be winning it. That's probably our best route for CL next season.
We had few games like that against top teams but when it comes to the most important part (as weaker teams are more in numbers), getting results against smaller clubs Ole has failed big time.
If he fails to reach top 4, he should be sacked unless we improve so much in playing style, attack, playing as a team.
League cup is a tough ask as we play against City.
Europa league - Expectation should be winning it. That's probably our best route for CL next season.
Liverpool should win their game in hand (W Ham), which on today’s table (18 games in) puts them 27 points ahead of us, against our 25. More than double the points!
We’re 7 points behind Chelsea in 4th, but only the same number of 7 points above Southampton in 17th, just above the relegation zone.
Our next 3 league games are against the 3 teams immediately below us in the table, two of which are away games.
If we lose 2 of those and Palace (4 places and just 2 points below us) get a couple of wins, we’ll be right back down in the bottom half of the table again and could possibly be back to just a few points above the relegation zone.
No longer the potential relation fodder we were in mid-November, but in a totally embarrassing situation, with Liverpool away at Anfield coming up in 4 weeks time!
There are only a couple of what you’d call “easy games” in all of January and February.
We know what happens when we have “easy games”.
This is getting worst.
We’re 7 points behind Chelsea in 4th, but only the same number of 7 points above Southampton in 17th, just above the relegation zone.
Our next 3 league games are against the 3 teams immediately below us in the table, two of which are away games.
If we lose 2 of those and Palace (4 places and just 2 points below us) get a couple of wins, we’ll be right back down in the bottom half of the table again and could possibly be back to just a few points above the relegation zone.
No longer the potential relation fodder we were in mid-November, but in a totally embarrassing situation, with Liverpool away at Anfield coming up in 4 weeks time!
There are only a couple of what you’d call “easy games” in all of January and February.
We know what happens when we have “easy games”.
This is getting worst.
I predicted 6th after the summer transfer window and I think that's where we'll finish.
The cups are impossible to predict really but I think we will focus on the EL eventually, if we don't win it I reckon Ole will be sacked at the end of the season.
The cups are impossible to predict really but I think we will focus on the EL eventually, if we don't win it I reckon Ole will be sacked at the end of the season.
If Ole is manager until May I think we'll finish around 7th or 8th and most likely without a trophy.
We are exactly where I predicted us to be, and the performances have been how I expected to. We do not posses enough quality to break down the 'lesser' sides, and in turn it has made us a very average side just like them. Harsh but true.
When we don't buy in January (which we won't), then it will continue. Expect us to finish between 8th and 11th where we deserve, We have too many out of their depth players and the same applies to the manager.
When we don't buy in January (which we won't), then it will continue. Expect us to finish between 8th and 11th where we deserve, We have too many out of their depth players and the same applies to the manager.
One of the worse seasons i can recall in more than 50 years of watching united. We won't be in Europe at all next season unless we win the Europa which I can't see happening. I also can't see united making the decision to sack Ole which means we'll be saying the same thing this time next year (and so will Ole)
Pogba coming back is real pain for Ole, when he was injured he had the excuse of not having Pogba, now we're looking injury free, his excuses are gone.
Top 6 is out of the question, we probably have a competitive top 6 (or 3rd to 6th place) squad but are un-coached, un-organised, mentally weak/shot and lacking in confidence.
We have no organisation and strengths that even the worst teams can nullify without huge effort. When we do win it seems like we needed a penalty or something to finish a team or break them down. Whereas almost every team in the league has, at the very least, a decent level of organisation where they can get a result by playing to their strengths.
A run of bad results over Christmas, difficult games for us, and being in the bottom half of the table in mid January going into the Anfield game and we're in trouble.
Despite that though Ed wont sack Ole, it would be another serious mark of failure against himself to sack yet another manager.
Ole, for some mind boggling reason keeps playing Lingard and Mata over Gomes and he leaves as does Chong.
Greenwood, James and Fred get better and better over the rest of the season.
DDG, Rashford, Martial and McTominay's form drops off even more.
Matic stays
Shaw gets injured and puts weight on.
Jones.
Pogba picks up an 'injury' just prior to the Liverpool game, we see him again for a few games when the weather improves in the spring and he eventually engineers a move for the summer, we settle for shit money which doesn't get reinvested properly if at all.
We wont sign anybody in January, there's absolutely no chance.
Best case: 8th
Worst case: 12th
Probably: 10th and Ole still driving us over the cliff-edge.
Merry fecking Christmas.
Top 6 is out of the question, we probably have a competitive top 6 (or 3rd to 6th place) squad but are un-coached, un-organised, mentally weak/shot and lacking in confidence.
We have no organisation and strengths that even the worst teams can nullify without huge effort. When we do win it seems like we needed a penalty or something to finish a team or break them down. Whereas almost every team in the league has, at the very least, a decent level of organisation where they can get a result by playing to their strengths.
A run of bad results over Christmas, difficult games for us, and being in the bottom half of the table in mid January going into the Anfield game and we're in trouble.
Despite that though Ed wont sack Ole, it would be another serious mark of failure against himself to sack yet another manager.
Ole, for some mind boggling reason keeps playing Lingard and Mata over Gomes and he leaves as does Chong.
Greenwood, James and Fred get better and better over the rest of the season.
DDG, Rashford, Martial and McTominay's form drops off even more.
Matic stays
Shaw gets injured and puts weight on.
Jones.
Pogba picks up an 'injury' just prior to the Liverpool game, we see him again for a few games when the weather improves in the spring and he eventually engineers a move for the summer, we settle for shit money which doesn't get reinvested properly if at all.
We wont sign anybody in January, there's absolutely no chance.
Best case: 8th
Worst case: 12th
Probably: 10th and Ole still driving us over the cliff-edge.
Merry fecking Christmas.
I’ve written the season off already, finish 6th if we’re lucky, zero cups. A new manager and a few signings in January maybe we could salvage something more but that’s unlikely to happen.
Never expected a title challenge or even a Top 4 finish as the squad was never near suitable for the task & the rhetoric OgS span from last seasons end to this one’s beginning always rang hollow.
My thoughts on it are, it shouldn’t be ‘this’ bad. The quality of the squad isn’t good enough to challenge but I also think OgS hasn’t utilised his limited resources anywhere near well enough; he persists with a formation that doesn’t suit his players & has a £200mil+ defence that concedes weekly.
The ‘signs’ of a rebuild just aren’t evident & never have been.
My thoughts on it are, it shouldn’t be ‘this’ bad. The quality of the squad isn’t good enough to challenge but I also think OgS hasn’t utilised his limited resources anywhere near well enough; he persists with a formation that doesn’t suit his players & has a £200mil+ defence that concedes weekly.
The ‘signs’ of a rebuild just aren’t evident & never have been.
We’re fecking terrible to watch most of the time. Wins vs top teams haven’t changed my mind about Ole. This squad lacks quality, no doubt, but it doesn’t excuse 9 out of ten performances vs supposed worse teams. Ole and the coaching staff not good enough, no two ways about it.
Expect us to finish 6th, just over Arsenal, behind the likes of Leicester, Spurs and Chelsea.
Expect us to finish 6th, just over Arsenal, behind the likes of Leicester, Spurs and Chelsea.
Just about as expected really. Some good results against the better teams, poor ones against the 'lesser' teams. Looking at the squad to begin with this was likely.
I do believe though with hindsight we would be comfortably in the top 4 if we'd had Pogba fit for the last 3 months.
I do believe though with hindsight we would be comfortably in the top 4 if we'd had Pogba fit for the last 3 months.
Ole will see this season out without any doubt in my mind.
Ed seems to be strongly onboard with Ole's, McKenna's, Phelan's and Carrick's long-term plan for the club so anyone expecting Ole to be shown the door anytime soon are quite naive unfortunately.
The only element Ole has that could win me over, and I'm guessing a fair few fans too, is his potential work in January if he's given funds.
Haaland is the major consistent name being linked. So if Ole and the club pull that deal off and Haaland hits the ground running (and he has to) and the team finally starts to show some consistency and general cohesion then that will obviously buy Ole more time and ,overall, I'll be ok and willing with that but,fundamentally, its about getting to that stage in the first place.
So,where will we likely finish ?
With the current squad I'm predicting a 6th or 7th finish with the potential of possibly falling further down between 10th and 11th.
With a couple of well thought out signings who make a instant impact,and if Pogba keeps fit, we could still yet finish in the top four,primarily because the teams above us fighting for those particular spots also show inconsistency.
Unfortunately for United,though, is they too (especially Chelsea) will likely improve in January.
Ed seems to be strongly onboard with Ole's, McKenna's, Phelan's and Carrick's long-term plan for the club so anyone expecting Ole to be shown the door anytime soon are quite naive unfortunately.
The only element Ole has that could win me over, and I'm guessing a fair few fans too, is his potential work in January if he's given funds.
Haaland is the major consistent name being linked. So if Ole and the club pull that deal off and Haaland hits the ground running (and he has to) and the team finally starts to show some consistency and general cohesion then that will obviously buy Ole more time and ,overall, I'll be ok and willing with that but,fundamentally, its about getting to that stage in the first place.
So,where will we likely finish ?
With the current squad I'm predicting a 6th or 7th finish with the potential of possibly falling further down between 10th and 11th.
With a couple of well thought out signings who make a instant impact,and if Pogba keeps fit, we could still yet finish in the top four,primarily because the teams above us fighting for those particular spots also show inconsistency.
Unfortunately for United,though, is they too (especially Chelsea) will likely improve in January.
I suppose the fact we've shown we can get results against good teams is a plus, and it's therefore theoretically possible we can eventually crack the bottom 15 or so teams we'll play in the second half of the season and put a run together that will get us ahead of the other stuttering teams in and around the top four. Saying that the fact we're a year in to Ole's permanent stewardship and are still getting bad results and woeful performances against most of the league is a huge concern.
Our season hinges on Pogba. We're asking him to single-handedly transform our team into one that can put lower league opposition away, and while there's evidence to show he can score and assist against those kind of teams I worry about how motivated and mentally prepared he is to carry this side for half a season.
Our season hinges on Pogba. We're asking him to single-handedly transform our team into one that can put lower league opposition away, and while there's evidence to show he can score and assist against those kind of teams I worry about how motivated and mentally prepared he is to carry this side for half a season.
I think our whole season depends on him, at least for most part. He has that magical pass or touch to unlock these defenses but we need everyone on top of their game too.
What Pogba showed against Watford was very promising, something we all know he is capable of. We created few very good chances in just 20-25 mins he played in and this was his first game in 2-3 months.
Hopefully he plays attacking role, we need him to play the free role like he did when Ole took over. He can influence from deeper positions and also in final third.
Definitely. The debate about whether or not we build the team around Pogba (is he committed enough, do the times when he tries to do too much, dallies on the ball etc.disqualify him from being the key man) is over as any other combination of players have proven themselves incapable of breaking down a packed defence. We need to set up in whatever way gives Pogba the best chance of scoring and assisting, so from now on (apart from big games when we'd probably be better dropping him
) we are Pogba FC.Definitely. The debate about whether or not we build the team around Pogba (is he committed enough, do the times when he tries to do too much, dallies on the ball etc.disqualify him from being the key man) is over as any other combination of players have proven themselves incapable of breaking down a packed defence. We need to set up in whatever way gives Pogba the best chance of scoring and assisting, so from now on (apart from big games when we'd probably be better dropping him
We don't even have to build the team around him, just make him part of the team where he can be asset rather than liability. Relying on him to do defensive work means he will be a liability as he loses marker easily and he is always late to sense danger, tbf to him that's not his natural game. So we should just play the players in their best positions.
With how our #10s have played, I would rather play with 10 players than 11 with Lingard, Mata, AP playing as 10. At least there won't be anyone to mess up the attacks. Pogba in that role but deeper like he used to play would be such a huge improvement.