Let's not pretend that it's that easy..
Mikel Arteta | Lego Pep watch
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik (@Rood) is joined by CEO Duncan Drasdo and Financial Director Andy Green from the Manchester United Supporters Trust for a special episode on all things behind the scenes at Old Trafford including a brief history of MUST and their aims today, views on INEOS and Sir Jim Ratcliffe so far, and the Old Trafford regeneration.
If we're talking high-profile managers of the sort who tend to manage big clubs - the answer is definitely no.
It's the opposite. They tend to age rather badly.
ETA To be fair, though, the above is true after they've peaked at their full powers, as it were. It's - as you suggest yourself - the ability to re-invent themselves which most of these managers have struggled with.
Arteta is a mere kid in managerial terms, though - there's no reason to think he can't improve somewhat with a bit more experience.
There's no great mystique to not giving players that have been proven not to be good enough over a sustained period, massive new contracts into their 30s.
As I've said before, the folk running the club know the squad needs revamped. At the very least, if it doesn't work out in terms of results on the pitch, he can be the 'fall guy' that gets rid of your Mustafi's, Ozil's, Sokratis, Kolasinac, hopefully the likes of Lacazette & Xhaka over the next year, & replace them with young talent like Saliba, Tierney, Smith-Rowe, Saka, Martinelli type players in the first team.
It might be that it's the next manager that can take all that young talent & mould it into a better team in terms of cohesiveness & results, but the squad should be a lot better for it long term.
If I were Arsenal I'd sign Eddie Howe. I'm not convinced they'd win anything with him but they'd play some decent stuff and have an outside shout of improving some of the players rather than watching them all stagnate.
I really don't like Lacazzette but with him, Aubameyang and Pepe along with the youngsters there's really no excuse for not at least trying to play some attacking football from time to time. You're very unlikely to ever get on a serious roll by sitting back and playing uninspired possession football unless you have some serious world class talent throughout the team.
I really don't like Lacazzette but with him, Aubameyang and Pepe along with the youngsters there's really no excuse for not at least trying to play some attacking football from time to time. You're very unlikely to ever get on a serious roll by sitting back and playing uninspired possession football unless you have some serious world class talent throughout the team.
It doesn't make sense to make a squad revamp before finding a new manager. Arteta has shown that he doesn't deserve the investment (how is Partey doing? What about Saliba?), a better manager needs to be brought in immediately to participate in the decisions.
It's doing a squad revemp while given the present manager time & a chance to succeed with his own players. He's had little over a year. I'm not saying give him 5 years or so with the same results, but he'll get another summer, a pre season that he hasn't had yet, & then will be assessed next season as to how things are going.
As has been said, the fact fans aren't in the stadium has probably helped him, because if you go on social media many want him out already. I'm willing to be more patient, but want to see improvement next season. Partey has struggled for fitness all season, Saliba is doing well on loan in France where hopefully he'll be integrated next season. People forget he's only just turned 20. Theres not many 20 year old centre backs holding down regular spots in the top 5 leagues. He has plenty time. If he's not integrated next season, then again, I'll judge him more harshly.
I hate this line so much. No manager needs 'his own' players, and why would they. Arteta has had time. And he had transfers, lots of them. He's done a very inconsistent job. Some things alright, overall not nearly convincing enough to deserve so much more time and trust.
The issue is he signed Luiz then renewed his contract.
Yeah ok but then a past decision will mean the situation won't be easy. If you erroneously give a too large contract for a player who doesn't justify it, chances are you won't be able to 'just sell' him either (as other clubs will not be ready to pay these wages which have turned out to be too high)
I think the squad is bobbins, and I'm far from convinced Arteta is anything special, but they might as well trust him and back him properly, because realistically they're miles off top 4 for the time being anyway, what is there to lose by putting faith in him.
Well if you have players that have failed constantly, failed 2 managers previously, it would suggest you need at least a different & hopefully better standard of player would it not? Would you want Xhaka, Lacazette, Holding etc in your team long term?
He's had 1 summer window, a window which he spent any sizable transfer fee on 2 players, Gabriel & Partey. In winter windows when there's no real money to spend, he spent relatively low money on Mari as a back up centre back, signed Cedric & a loan for Matt Ryan as back up players & Odegaard on loan as well. So, it's hardly a Chelsea splurge of £200M+ on several top players.
He didn't sign Luiz, that was done before him. He did renew his contract though.
It’s not so much faith in him. They’ll happily let the manager take all the blame even though the squad is diabolically bad. It deflects any of the blame from them.
Arsenal have been pretty irrelevant for some time now. They aren’t considered a competitive rival anymore and all the small teams believe even they can beat them if they get a little physical. The only ones still calling Arsenal a top team are Sky because they want to sell you a narrative, the average fan won’t take them seriously anymore.
That work on transfers doesn't seem bad actually. Partey is a class player, Gabriel is good, Mari looks good too IMO, Cedric is better than Bellerin these days and Odegaard was clearly a good move. So maybe he does need time but some of his selections and tactics are baffling.
Is Gabriel good? He seems to make a mess of things practically every time I watch him.
I mean, you listed an alcoholic and a bunch of managers who refused to change and adapt with the change in culture within football. Most managers, who haven't given up on learning adapt with the game and get better with age, some should have retired a long time ago or at least acknowledge it's not the early 2000's anymore.
What about Willian on a 3 year contract, and Runarsson which they had to get an replacement for in the next window because he was horrible?
William will haunt them for two more years after this season because they cant get rid of him.
People forget that not only is Arteta new, Edu is relatively new as well. Like you say, the bigger signings we are targeting (Gabriel, Partey, Odegaard, Aouar that we didn't manage to get ) all seem the right type of players. Only problem is we don't have the budget to get them all in 1 window, so as difficult as it is, we need to try & be a bit patient. I'm intrigued to see what they do this summer.
He started of well, he won our player of the month a few times in a row, but there's been a few dodgy incidents since he came back from injury.
A good start but tailing off. He's still only 23 in his first season in England, so plenty room for improvement.
I think I read a while back 16/24 players are "his' in some way or another whether that's by signing them, giving them new deals, convincing them to stay (Xhaka) or selling competition to accommodate them (Leno).
How can you count players he's allegedly had a conversation with to convince to stay?
Unfortunately he's not getting £250M handed to him in a transfer window from an Abramovich, so he'll need to do some things that perhaps he wouldn't normally want to do.
I understand my word on this is not enough so how about the man himself.How can you count players he's allegedly had a conversation with to convince to stay?
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.sk...a-i-convinced-granit-xhaka-to-stay-at-arsenal
Neither did Moyes or Ancelotti who took over at pretty much the same time and both have inferior squads.
Isn’t Edu just as much to blame for the mess they are in?
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I know mate, but you can't count asking a player to stay, as how do you count them all if we aren't privvy to those conversations all the time? Folk like Bellerin being asked to stay an extra season doesnt mean he sees him as his right back long term, it just means he's wants to keep some continuity while building.
And both could still finish ahead of Chelsea who did spend that money.
Hardly the worst transfer ever and I don't see how you can be sure he won't return to some form and be a useful player for them given his pedigree. Having a bad season but then most of their big players are.
I think Arteta is a bit 'clever clever' though with his tactics and selections and often ballses it up because his squad is nothing like City's. He needs to get closer to a proper first XI with a more definite system, and one that gets the best out of their best players.
Not really massive outlays though. A bosman transfer & a £1.5M punt from the 2nd division in France. If you want to talk about wasting money, neither are even in the same ball park as the £72M deal that Sanllehi organised.
I think that is the core of the problem, you have no seniority of leadership at all, there is noone who could rightfully be regarded as the boss, as someone who has the ultimate responsibility and takes decisions for the club. (Or who is it? Vinai what's his name? Some US-American rich kid called Chad Kroenke?)
They're all new, they all don't exactly know what they're doing, they are all dependent on each other to work out, because none of them can point at the other and say "you are not doing a well enough job". Mertesacker too, why the hell does he have any say in how the club is run?
None of them, neither Arteta nor Mertesacker, and Edu not really either, have the record and seniority that would suggest they can provide the required level of leadership, experience, and expertise.
You don't win anything with kids, and your club is run by kids. I think it's pretty scary.
That's exactly my point, the man largely responsible for that payed for it with his job. My argument with Lampard at the end is pretty much the same as what I'm thinking with Arteta, surely there's levels as to what's acceptable even during rebuilds?
Surely there's better options than those two though? Looking at your options in midfield while none are outstanding apart from Partey I think I'd want literally anyone there before Xhaka. Not only he is pretty shit from the outside looking in he seems to think far too highly of himself aswell.
Likewise with Bellerin, although he seems to make annoying exceptions for us he's utterly hopeless the majority of times i see him.
It all got a bit complex after Wenger left. Gazidas wanted a more continental approach so hired Mislintat & Sanllehi. Then Gazidas left for Milan, Vinai replaced him as Chief Executive & it almost created a power vacuum. Mislintat left after being overlooked for a promotion, & Sanllehi hired Edu.
It was still over complicated, Sanllehi left last year which helped simplify things. So you have the Kronkes Stan & his son Josh, the board, Vinai in charge of non football activities, Edu in charge of football operations, & Arteta as manager.
Edu does have some experience, he was Corinthians Director of Football for 5 years, then General co-ordinator of the Brazil National team for 3 years. Mertesacker is Arsenal academy manager, nothing to do with the first team.
I think there's better options than those 2, in fact I'll be mightly disappointed if both are 1st choice in their positions next season, as for me, that's the main areas of weakness in the team right now, & the areas we should focus the majority of whatever resources we have next season into improving.
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Two points saved against Fulham! [Borat style] Great success!!
What is this guy? Seriously?
You’re Arsenal manager, 9th in the table and you’re throwing league games with those daft line ups.
You’re Arsenal manager, 9th in the table and you’re throwing league games with those daft line ups.
Love the thread title
The celebrations made it look like a great result, apparently even AFTV loved it. He is successfully killing their ambition.
March on, Mikel.
March on, Mikel.
I tuned in for the end of AFTV and they were hoping about like they just won the league. fecking twats
You guys are way too hard on the sweet Prince.
The progress in his team is undeniable. Last year at this stage they had 46pts and a goal difference of +6.
Now - with a year in the seat + Partey/Ødegaard/Gabriel - they’re on 46pts and with a goal difference of +8.
Respect. Respect.
The progress in his team is undeniable. Last year at this stage they had 46pts and a goal difference of +6.
Now - with a year in the seat + Partey/Ødegaard/Gabriel - they’re on 46pts and with a goal difference of +8.
Respect. Respect.
Trust the process.He is absolutely brutal. 7 points off 7th place.
Five games remaining, and Arteta has as many defeats as wins in the PL. Elite.