Title challenge (be in real contention come end of April/ beginning of May), quarter final in Champions League, win either league cup or FA cup
Minimum Bar for Continuity in Ole's Third Full Season
- Thread starter Raveneye
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik (@Rood) is joined by CEO Duncan Drasdo and Financial Director Andy Green from the Manchester United Supporters Trust for a special episode on all things behind the scenes at Old Trafford including a brief history of MUST and their aims today, views on INEOS and Sir Jim Ratcliffe so far, and the Old Trafford regeneration.
Bookies have us 4th favourite for the league at 8/1 or 9/1 on some. Great value there if anyone thinks we're being underestimated
I think we should get 3rd at least unless Pool goes and gets some players.
With addition of Varana and Sancho and maybe another player. No excuses this season.
+ Goal and main target : premier league title
+ Ch.league = go as far as possible and knock PSG in cup stage
+ Goal and main target : premier league title
+ Ch.league = go as far as possible and knock PSG in cup stage
Apart from reaching C.L - there is no such thing as a minimum because it all depends on the other teams.
If we get City in the final of one of the Cups, and then we get Bayern, PSG and Chelsea in the knockout stages of the C.L - chances of us winning all 3 are small. If we get much worse teams, that is a different scenario.
I want progress and a title - but I also want us to have a bit of luck with the draw for once. But I can't see 4 teams capable of beating us in the league, and as much as i respect Leicester, we should be ahead of them in the table. But if we pick up 80 points and are still beaten by Chelsea, Liverpool and City - it will still have been a good season for us. Just not good enough.
If we get City in the final of one of the Cups, and then we get Bayern, PSG and Chelsea in the knockout stages of the C.L - chances of us winning all 3 are small. If we get much worse teams, that is a different scenario.
I want progress and a title - but I also want us to have a bit of luck with the draw for once. But I can't see 4 teams capable of beating us in the league, and as much as i respect Leicester, we should be ahead of them in the table. But if we pick up 80 points and are still beaten by Chelsea, Liverpool and City - it will still have been a good season for us. Just not good enough.
No it doesn't. In theory - a team could have a season like Liverpool and City had when they won practically every game and picked up - was it 99 and 97 points ? If we pick up 85 points and are beaten by 12, of course he doesn't deserve the sack.
But if we end with 71-72 points this season, that will be very disappointing.
Ole needs to be knighted or at least given an MBE for contributions to football.
That's fantastic value.
I think the top management expects a title challenge. The additions of playing staff, the free kick coach, the new contract to the manager, the ground renovations everything has been done. This means that now the onus is well and truly on the coaching staff to get the best results possible. I truly think we can have a 90 point season this time. And fingers crossed, it should be enough for is to win the league. I don't care about any of the cups. I hope and wish for OGS to win the League.
- Title challenge.
- Some kind of cup.
- 1/4 or 1/2 in champions league.
- Exciting football.
This, except the League Cup is not good enough unless we beat City on the way to the win since they love that trophy.
I believe my expectations for the 21/22 season for United are reasonable:
PL trophy
CL semifinal appearance
I'm not saying either are inevitable, but I believe they are both achievable and thus are my expectations for Ole.
(I have little interest in either the league cup or the FA Cup, which for me should be used to give fringe players time they need. Winning either cup would be nice but nowhere near in importance to winning either the PL or CL trophies.)
If what's implicitly being asked is what should constitute sufficient accomplishments for Ole not to be sacked next summer, that's an impossible question to answer. We could fall to second in the PL on the last day of the season, but would another second place finish under that circumstance warrant the sack for Ole? I don't think so. But a fourth place finish and grim form..that would be a sackable offense.
PL trophy
CL semifinal appearance
I'm not saying either are inevitable, but I believe they are both achievable and thus are my expectations for Ole.
(I have little interest in either the league cup or the FA Cup, which for me should be used to give fringe players time they need. Winning either cup would be nice but nowhere near in importance to winning either the PL or CL trophies.)
If what's implicitly being asked is what should constitute sufficient accomplishments for Ole not to be sacked next summer, that's an impossible question to answer. We could fall to second in the PL on the last day of the season, but would another second place finish under that circumstance warrant the sack for Ole? I don't think so. But a fourth place finish and grim form..that would be a sackable offense.
Our first seven games in the PL are winnable. Could be some tricky games against West Ham, Everton or Villa, but overall its possible to have 21 points after those 7 games (19 would also be good).
Then it's a tough run against Leicester, Liverpool, Spurs, City, Watford, Chelsea and Arsenal. Again 7 games, but i expect a minimum of 12 points.
Finally, it's between december and february that we could win the title, because we play only: Palace, Norwich, Brentford, Brighton, Newcastle, Burnley (x2), Wolves, Villa, West Ham, Saints, Leeds and Watford. 13 games, all winnable. A strong run here, should put us in a good place to win the league.
Our last 11 games, we play City, Spurs, Liverpool, Everton, Leicester, Chelsea and Arsenal, so it's a tough run to close the season, but if we build a confortable lead between december and february, we should be there at the end.
Of course we'll have other competitions, but i expect reach at least QF in the UCL, and win some domestic cup.
Then it's a tough run against Leicester, Liverpool, Spurs, City, Watford, Chelsea and Arsenal. Again 7 games, but i expect a minimum of 12 points.
Finally, it's between december and february that we could win the title, because we play only: Palace, Norwich, Brentford, Brighton, Newcastle, Burnley (x2), Wolves, Villa, West Ham, Saints, Leeds and Watford. 13 games, all winnable. A strong run here, should put us in a good place to win the league.
Our last 11 games, we play City, Spurs, Liverpool, Everton, Leicester, Chelsea and Arsenal, so it's a tough run to close the season, but if we build a confortable lead between december and february, we should be there at the end.
Of course we'll have other competitions, but i expect reach at least QF in the UCL, and win some domestic cup.
That is a title run if I have ever seen one! 21 is coming
Edit cracking break down mate!
I think Ole is learning a lot from his tenure at OT, more so than his times with Molde or Cardiff City. I think he has done well with the knowledge he has about United and until now he has handled all the things in the right way. I'm pretty sure more of us were annoyed with him at some point for the way he managed games, formations, and tactics but he has genuinely brought a lot of smiles to the fans and handled the press supremely.
Coming to the point at hand, ALL I EVER ASK FOR IS "ATTRACTIVE FOOTBALL". I completely understand that we will lose a few games and that's part of the game but all I want to see is complete commitment to the bigger picture and I genuinely think he's making huge strides in that area. The bare minimum according to me is achieving 80+ points, a carabao cup/FA cup win, and a semi-final berth at the Champions League. I still think we need a striker and a defensive midfielder to run riots in the league but you never know, Cavani might just kick ass and take us there. DEFINITELY DEFINITELY need to win (either the league or a cup). It's been a long time since we really celebrated a final victory. Was literally heartbroken at the EL final last season. We deserved to win that one but were rubbish on the night. I hope Sancho and Varane will change that.
Coming to the point at hand, ALL I EVER ASK FOR IS "ATTRACTIVE FOOTBALL". I completely understand that we will lose a few games and that's part of the game but all I want to see is complete commitment to the bigger picture and I genuinely think he's making huge strides in that area. The bare minimum according to me is achieving 80+ points, a carabao cup/FA cup win, and a semi-final berth at the Champions League. I still think we need a striker and a defensive midfielder to run riots in the league but you never know, Cavani might just kick ass and take us there. DEFINITELY DEFINITELY need to win (either the league or a cup). It's been a long time since we really celebrated a final victory. Was literally heartbroken at the EL final last season. We deserved to win that one but were rubbish on the night. I hope Sancho and Varane will change that.
Very succinctly put, agreed.
League : 80 points
Cups : Give lads game time
Champions league : Knockouts
Cups : Give lads game time
Champions league : Knockouts
I'd like us to no longer be associated with the Europa League. So we need to progress far enough in CL so we don't drop into EL when knocked out.
Ole has spent 400m on players, this season is key for him to prove what he can do. This is his team now, he has been backed, has a superb first 11 and a strong bench.
In the league, points total needs to beat last seasons actuals and performances need to be consistent. More importantly, we need to challenge for the title, be a thorn to whoever the leaders are. Rolling over and letting a team have a 12 point gap over us is not acceptable anymore. Our defense is boosted by Varane, 3 of 4 are Ole's players and he has Shawberto at the back. Pogba and Bruno are world class, Greenwood will be amazing this season and we have Sancho, Cavani, Rashford and Martial to come in. If we signed a DM, Ole needs to win it.
I would also love to move away from the double pivot and play more aggressive and expansive attacking football.
Champions league will be tough, bare minimum is to get out of the group stage, ideally a QF or SF would be nice. We need a trophey badly, we need to win one of league cup or fa cup.
In the league, points total needs to beat last seasons actuals and performances need to be consistent. More importantly, we need to challenge for the title, be a thorn to whoever the leaders are. Rolling over and letting a team have a 12 point gap over us is not acceptable anymore. Our defense is boosted by Varane, 3 of 4 are Ole's players and he has Shawberto at the back. Pogba and Bruno are world class, Greenwood will be amazing this season and we have Sancho, Cavani, Rashford and Martial to come in. If we signed a DM, Ole needs to win it.
I would also love to move away from the double pivot and play more aggressive and expansive attacking football.
Champions league will be tough, bare minimum is to get out of the group stage, ideally a QF or SF would be nice. We need a trophey badly, we need to win one of league cup or fa cup.
I agree that Ole is putting together a great team but rather than using that as a stick to beat him with, I see that as a sign that he's doing a great job and wouldn't be putting any ultimatums on him, like he has to win a cup.
Were looking back to our old selves again and I'm just thankful. I really couldn't be arsed whether we win a minor cup or not. Would anything have really changed if we win the Europa? I don't think so. We would still want more this year.
With regards to the league and champions league, I'm not gonna be spitting feathers if some other team has a 100 pointer or we get knocked out by a top team. We can only control what we do and provided we improve on our points total (80+), I'll be chuffed.
The football is bound to be way better with Sancho added, Greenwood a year older and provided Pogba has a full season under Ole for a change.
Can't wait for the next game.
One domestic Cup + a very close second place finish in either the PL or in the CL.
A trophy and a title challenge is all you can expect.
Solid defense
Good title battle
Run in CL
And good football
Cups are a bonus
85 points at least.
Good title battle
Run in CL
And good football
Cups are a bonus
85 points at least.
To have a chance to win the league a team usually needs around 85 goals at least. Last year City won the league without CF contributing. Gundogan was their highest goal scorer with 13, followed by Sterling 10, and that's it. Rest everyone with single digit goals. But literally "everyone" in the midfield contributed. Total 60 fecking goals by 8 midfielders/wingers. United don't have that kind of midfield yet, neither we have a prolific striker who can assure about 20 goals in the league alone. We might reach closer to 80.
So, 80 goals may not win us the league. But top 3 finish can be easily achieved.
Our real chance is CL. And I think we should go all out for CL. We can be much bigger threat in cups. So I am expecting at least 2 cups this season.
Get a proper target man and we can win league 2 out of 3 years with this team.
So, 80 goals may not win us the league. But top 3 finish can be easily achieved.
Our real chance is CL. And I think we should go all out for CL. We can be much bigger threat in cups. So I am expecting at least 2 cups this season.
Get a proper target man and we can win league 2 out of 3 years with this team.
Respectively:
1. A title challenge
2. Exciting and entertaining football
3. Beat City and Liverpool. I really hate them.
4. Get through the CL group stages. I really want to see United in the CL knockouts. Preferably against Madrid and of course beat them please.
I don't care about the cups unless it's a PL or CL one.
1. A title challenge
2. Exciting and entertaining football
3. Beat City and Liverpool. I really hate them.
4. Get through the CL group stages. I really want to see United in the CL knockouts. Preferably against Madrid and of course beat them please.
I don't care about the cups unless it's a PL or CL one.
I get where you are coming from, your entitled to your view. What I ask myself is how long are we prepared to wait for another trophey (cup or league), and when can I start judging my return on investment (the 400m). I think 3 years is a long time in football, Ole has shown he can build a strategy from point A to point B, i think his next step is now to deliver silverware. In football you are judged by what you win, not how you play or how close you came.
Just my view, but if I was Ole's boss, I would be demanding silverware on the basis of my 400m investment in under 3 years. If we come close, let's judge that then but you always need to have big targets at big clubs.
80-85 points. Good cup runs
Maybe you would, but I doubt the United board will. I think they've always been pretty no frills about the situation - be competitive and in the top 4 and not have tons of drama with the players and they'll be very lenient. Add to that that its a club legend who's a fan favourite the only way he gets sacked is if he seriously underperforms or if he starts losing the players. Not that I think it would come to that to be honest - I think we could have a very good season, and that is because of Ole not despite him.
I really don't think the FA and league cups are worth much at all.
Other clubs are spending big money too. That's the problem.
Also Jose and Louis spent big money and they left us in tatters.
The money Ole has spent has clearly been spent well and the fact that he has done so well has made me want to give him more leeway, not less.
I'd even give him a stand still year although I do think we're gonna make more progress this year.
I'm actually reviewing my earlier expectations, and as crazy as it sounds, I can forgive Ole not winning any silverware this season, assuming:
Funny enough, by the reverse token if he were to win something like the FA cup, but we end up kicking and screaming to 4th place, or dare I say it - finish outside the top 4, while getting humiliated again in the CL. Then that wouldn't be good enough for me. (We might as well have Arteta if that were the case).
- We mount a decent title challenge (i.e. not out of it by March)
- We have a decent run in the champions league, at least reaching the quarters (no more group stage exits)
- We play progressive, attacking football
- Ole is able to prove he's able to win key games throughout the season
Funny enough, by the reverse token if he were to win something like the FA cup, but we end up kicking and screaming to 4th place, or dare I say it - finish outside the top 4, while getting humiliated again in the CL. Then that wouldn't be good enough for me. (We might as well have Arteta if that were the case).
Considering the talent in this squad, I would be disappointed if we don't lift the PL trophy this season. There may well be excuses why we may have to settle for second (Pogba issues, etc.), but I really do see us returning the PL to its rightful home next May.
As for CL, the eventual winner usually needs some luck. And as for the other cups, come what may.
As for CL, the eventual winner usually needs some luck. And as for the other cups, come what may.
We should be closer to 90 points than 80 in the league this season. That's the goal for me.
The 20/21 team should have been good for 80 and probably would have managed it if not for the awful start and finish. Sancho and Varane is an easy 10 on top of that, before factoring in a constantly-improving Greenwood and fit Cavani for the whole season.
Get there, and I'm not bothered if someone else has a record-breaking season and we finish ten points off the title again.
The 20/21 team should have been good for 80 and probably would have managed it if not for the awful start and finish. Sancho and Varane is an easy 10 on top of that, before factoring in a constantly-improving Greenwood and fit Cavani for the whole season.
Get there, and I'm not bothered if someone else has a record-breaking season and we finish ten points off the title again.