Modric deserves Ballon d'Or, but Ronaldo will get it

Peyroteo said:
Do the people that believe the Ballon D’Or is a popularity contest/marketing competition have any theories on Neymar not getting close to winning it?

Modric wasn’t one of the top 3 Real Madrid players last season. Even now that Ronaldo left, it’s more than obvious who the best player in the team has become and it’s not Modric.

So far this season Modric hasn’t even been one of the 3 best Real Madrid midfielders ffs... If you’re going to give the World Cup this level of importance in comparison to the other competitions so Modric wins it then Varane, Hazard, Griezmann and Perisic should be the rest of the top 5.

Modric deserves this award for the career he’s had, he deserves to have his name written in history but it would be crazy if he went on to win the Ballon D’Or. It would devalue it and the only reason for it to happen is voter fatigue.
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Casemiro and Kroos are fantastic but if Modric is inspired they become simple squires.
Cristiano won it in the past for his collective successes in the Euro, therefore putting all together Modric is the one that has made the most merits. I do not think it devalues the trophy at all.
 
Ban said:
Is it that bad that Ronaldo doesn't win it every year?
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No. But I believe in 2018 he’s been the best player in the world, tht’s all.

I’ve argued for years that Modric didn’t get the recognition he deserved in these awards. In 2016/17 he should have been in the top 3. I’m happy he won The Best award, it’s a great career achievement and he gets a big individual prize to get his name written in history but he deserves that recognition for the career he’s had, not because of his performances in 2018. Winning both this one and the Ballon D’Or would be going overboard.
 
Hound Dog said:
Ballon D'Or is supposed to be about the way players performed, not about their rankings on FIFA and PES.

Sneijder lead Inter to a treble and Netherlands to a WC final, so we are not talking about one team in his case, but two. But hey, Messi had 96 on FIFA that year, so let's give it to him.

Regarding Ribery , it obviously made far more sense to give it to Ronaldo for scoring a hat-trick against Sweden.
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He did not "lead" Inter to anything. Millitio, Maicon and the CBs were more important. And while he scored some goals in the WC his all around play was pretty meh. And it is amazing how you just discount things like league titles.
 
RedTillI'mDead said:
Ronaldo 44 goals and 8 assists in 44 games.
Messi 45 goals and 18 assists in 54 games
Salah 44 goals and 16 assists in 52 games
Griezzman 29 goals and 15 assists in 49 games
Mbappe 21 goals and 15 assists in 46 games
Aguero 30 goals and 7 assists in 39 games
Kane 41 goals and 5 assists in 48 games
Icardi 29 goals and 1 assist in 36 games
Cavani 40 goals and 11 assists in 48 games
Neymar 28 goals and 16 assists in 30 games
De Bruyne 12 goals and 21 assists in 52 games
Coutinho 22 goals and 14 assists in 42 games
Lewandowski 41 goals and 5 assists in 48 games

So yeah yeah Modric isn't a goalscorer/ provider. Well if that isn't what he does show me some stats that make him stand out, because I got bored pulling together the above, but I'd say Modric has a lot to do to be beating all those players who had phenomenal seasons. I'm sure I'd could dig out a fair few others if needed.

Even Kante arguably had a better season with winning the World Cup.
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You know how football works? I will help you. You have goalkeepers and defenders whos main job is to defend goal. You have midfielders who defend and dictate tempo of the game. And you have attackers who score goals. So by your standards, only players who score goals and assist are important? Come on man, 10y old kid doesn't think like that.
 
carvajal said:
Casemiro and Kroos are fantastic but if Modric is inspired they become simple squires.
Cristiano won it in the past for his collective successes in the Euro, therefore putting all together Modric is the one that has made the most merits. I do not think it devalues the trophy at all.
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Cristiano was performing at a clearly higher level that year than what Modric has produced this year though.

The collective success matters as it should but imo it is enough to push Modric for top 3 only, more than that is pushing it. Otherwise someone like Varane who won both the WC and the CL has to be close to winning it too.
 
Andycoleno9 said:
You know how football works? I will help you. You have goalkeepers and defenders whos main job is to defend goal. You have midfielders who defend and dictate tempo of the game. And you have attackers who score goals. So by your standards, only players who score goals and assist are important? Come on man, 10y old kid doesn't think like that.
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My point is, the players with the most skill, ability, composure are usually wingers or strikers.

Of course there are different roles for different players, but being a midfielder does not have the same cut throat nature to it.

The best midfielder in the world should at least be getting 10-15 goals at a minimum and similar in assists. SAF's rule book was basically driven on 10 goals per player in the midfield.

I'd expect a world best defender to be getting more than the 2 goals Modric scored! And 7 assists you'd expect a world class wingback to beat.

I'm sorry, but I just don't see him beating what I would consider minimum targets. And in a year where there wasn't a whole heap of other players smashing it you might look at his ability to dictate the play, but I'm not even sure he is the best at that.
 
RedTillI'mDead said:
Ronaldo 44 goals and 8 assists in 44 games.
Messi 45 goals and 18 assists in 54 games
Salah 44 goals and 16 assists in 52 games
Griezzman 29 goals and 15 assists in 49 games
Mbappe 21 goals and 15 assists in 46 games
Aguero 30 goals and 7 assists in 39 games
Kane 41 goals and 5 assists in 48 games
Icardi 29 goals and 1 assist in 36 games
Cavani 40 goals and 11 assists in 48 games
Neymar 28 goals and 16 assists in 30 games
De Bruyne 12 goals and 21 assists in 52 games
Coutinho 22 goals and 14 assists in 42 games
Lewandowski 41 goals and 5 assists in 48 games

So yeah yeah Modric isn't a goalscorer/ provider. Well if that isn't what he does show me some stats that make him stand out, because I got bored pulling together the above, but I'd say Modric has a lot to do to be beating all those players who had phenomenal seasons. I'm sure I'd could dig out a fair few others if needed.

Even Kante arguably had a better season with winning the World Cup.
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Don't want to be harsh, but this post sums up everything wrong with how we look at football nowadays.
 
RedTillI'mDead said:
Ronaldo 44 goals and 8 assists in 44 games.
Messi 45 goals and 18 assists in 54 games
Salah 44 goals and 16 assists in 52 games
Griezzman 29 goals and 15 assists in 49 games
Mbappe 21 goals and 15 assists in 46 games
Aguero 30 goals and 7 assists in 39 games
Kane 41 goals and 5 assists in 48 games
Icardi 29 goals and 1 assist in 36 games
Cavani 40 goals and 11 assists in 48 games
Neymar 28 goals and 16 assists in 30 games
De Bruyne 12 goals and 21 assists in 52 games
Coutinho 22 goals and 14 assists in 42 games
Lewandowski 41 goals and 5 assists in 48 games

So yeah yeah Modric isn't a goalscorer/ provider. Well if that isn't what he does show me some stats that make him stand out, because I got bored pulling together the above, but I'd say Modric has a lot to do to be beating all those players who had phenomenal seasons. I'm sure I'd could dig out a fair few others if needed.

Even Kante arguably had a better season with winning the World Cup.
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There is no "arguably" regarding Kanté because Modric had a better season, period. CL win + Word Cup finalist+ Best player of the tournament.
 
Keeps It tidy said:
He did not "lead" Inter to anything. Millitio, Maicon and the CBs were more important. And while he scored some goals in the WC his all around play was pretty meh. And it is amazing how you just discount things like league titles.
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I'd add that even if it was 100% true that he was the best player of both Inter and Holland (which he obviously wasn't), he shouldn't have won it for the simple fact that he completely fell apart after the WC and for a good four months was abysmal.
 
el3mel said:
Don't want to be harsh, but this post sums up everything wrong with how we look at football nowadays.
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No it doesn't. What is Uniteds problem at the moment, it's not controlling games, it's output. If we had a player who could shine like any one of these we'd be flying way more than having Pogba 'dictate' games. Modric wouldn't do shit for United vs most of those other players.

Everything that is wrong with football is people who think possession and control is everything. Well if you don't put the ball in the back of the net it means Jack shit.
 
RedTillI'mDead said:
No it doesn't. What is Uniteds problem at the moment, it's not controlling games, it's output. If we had a player who could shine like any one of these we'd be flying way more than having Pogba 'dictate' games. Modric wouldn't do shit for United vs most of those other players.

Everything that is wrong with football is people who think possession and control is everything. Well if you don't put the ball in the back of the net it means Jack shit.
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Midfielders aren't supposed to score a lot. Everyone has a job to do on the pitch and Modric excel in his role. With your logic only attackers should be nominated for these awards.
 
RedTillI'mDead said:
My point is, the players with the most skill, ability, composure are usually wingers or strikers.

Of course there are different roles for different players, but being a midfielder does not have the same cut throat nature to it.

The best midfielder in the world should at least be getting 10-15 goals at a minimum and similar in assists. SAF's rule book was basically driven on 10 goals per player in the midfield.

I'd expect a world best defender to be getting more than the 2 goals Modric scored! And 7 assists you'd expect a world class wingback to beat.

I'm sorry, but I just don't see him beating what I would consider minimum targets. And in a year where there wasn't a whole heap of other players smashing it you might look at his ability to dictate the play, but I'm not even sure he is the best at that.
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I do believe players who score and create goals generally have the most impact. But, Xavi was the best midfielder for years and he rarely had high goal totals and did not always have a ton of assists.
 
K2K said:
You certainly aren't biased.

Not at all.
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Biased how? I am wrong for saying that Messi and Ronaldo are the 2 best players in the world? by a large margin still might I add.
 
RedTillI'mDead said:
No it doesn't. What is Uniteds problem at the moment, it's not controlling games, it's output. If we had a player who could shine like any one of these we'd be flying way more than having Pogba 'dictate' games. Modric wouldn't do shit for United vs most of those other players.

Everything that is wrong with football is people who think possession and control is everything. Well if you don't put the ball in the back of the net it means Jack shit.
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United struggle big time to control games. Who have you been watching ?
 
Ban said:
CL over WC?
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Yes. Champions League is the pinnacle. And Croatia's run to the final was a team effort more than anything. Perisic, Rakitic, Mandzukic, the defenders were all as important as Modric.
 
el3mel said:
Midfielders aren't supposed to score a lot. Everyone has a job to do on the pitch and Modric excel in his role. With your logic only attackers should be nominated for these awards.
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I just think most people voted Modric off of a few flashes of skill and high energy in the world cup, but for me that's not enough with such heavy hitters doing the hardest part of football in scoring the goals.

After goal scorers or providers I'd generally then look at goalkeepers who have to be the most agile and sharp minded and after that maybe centre backs, the best of whom have to read tackles to perfection.

Midfielder is undoubtedly the most forgiving place to play. Don't get me wrong there are the Roy Keane, Kante types who can act like centre backs in their reading of the game and dictate play with comfort. And obviously Modric has elements of this, but what does he do that makes him stand out? He isn't productive enough to be box to box, or a creator and arguably not as solid as some DMs. So what is he and what makes him stand out?

High energy, good interceptor maybe, good at getting the ball to the match winners. I'm sorry, but it's not enough for best in the world.
 
RedTillI'mDead said:
My point is, the players with the most skill, ability, composure are usually wingers or strikers.

Of course there are different roles for different players, but being a midfielder does not have the same cut throat nature to it.

The best midfielder in the world should at least be getting 10-15 goals at a minimum and similar in assists. SAF's rule book was basically driven on 10 goals per player in the midfield.

I'd expect a world best defender to be getting more than the 2 goals Modric scored! And 7 assists you'd expect a world class wingback to beat.

I'm sorry, but I just don't see him beating what I would consider minimum targets. And in a year where there wasn't a whole heap of other players smashing it you might look at his ability to dictate the play, but I'm not even sure he is the best at that.
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And again you with goals. You are kidding now, right? I refuse to believe that adult person does not understand basic things in football. Players like Modric dictate tempo. All attacks are going through him. On WC he scored one goal from open play but was best player in that WC and main reason why Croatia reached final. What was best midfield in last 10 years? Xavi-Iniesta. Xavi wasn't goalscorer. But was crucial in that Barca.
 
Modric is comfortably the best midfielder in the world. It’s no surprise the one season he was injured Madrid failed to make the final of CL

And taking Croatia to the WC final is a massive achievement. Would be wonderful if he wins ballon d’or
 
RedTillI'mDead said:
I just think most people voted Modric off of a few flashes of skill and high energy in the world cup, but for me that's not enough with such heavy hitters doing the hardest part of football in scoring the goals.

After goal scorers or providers I'd generally then look at goalkeepers who have to be the most agile and sharp minded and after that maybe centre backs, the best of whom have to read tackles to perfection.

Midfielder is undoubtedly the most forgiving place to play. Don't get me wrong there are the Roy Keane, Kante types who can act like centre backs in their reading of the game and dictate play with comfort. And obviously Modric has elements of this, but what does he do that makes him stand out? He isn't productive enough to be box to box, or a creator and arguably not as solid as some DMs. So what is he and what makes him stand out?

High energy, good interceptor maybe, good at getting the ball to the match winners. I'm sorry, but it's not enough for best in the world.
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For many great sides CBs and GKs we have very little actual defending to do in many matches. If you had to rank them midfielders would be more important than CBs or GKs.
 
Andycoleno9 said:
And again you with goals. You are kidding now, right? I refuse to believe that adult person does not understand basic things in football. Players like Modric dictate tempo. All attacks are going through him. On WC he scored one goal from open play but was best player in that WC and main reason why Croatia reached final. What was best midfield in last 10 years? Xavi-Iniesta. Xavi wasn't goalscorer. But was crucial in that Barca.
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By all attacks you mean, he passes to the player who passes to the player who then scores. Yep that sounds like the hardest job....
 
abdo99 said:
Yes. Champions League is the pinnacle. And Croatia's run to the final was a team effort more than anything. Perisic, Rakitic, Mandzukic, the defenders were all as important as Modric.
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Thats the factor for me Modric is not the reason for them going to the Final but he was a important asset as were all the others. He is World class one of the best in the world and arguably the best in his position but best player in the world ? never at least not while Ronaldo and Messi are still around and their is not much a debate to go against that. Their is Ronaldo and Messi and then their is everyone else. Is it "boring" sure but thats what happens when 2 of the GOATs play in the same era.
 
Peyroteo said:
Do the people that believe the Ballon D’Or is a popularity contest/marketing competition have any theories on Neymar not getting close to winning it?

Modric wasn’t one of the top 3 Real Madrid players last season. Even now that Ronaldo left, it’s more than obvious who the best player in the team has become and it’s not Modric.

So far this season Modric hasn’t even been one of the 3 best Real Madrid midfielders ffs... If you’re going to give the World Cup this level of importance in comparison to the other competitions so Modric wins it then Varane, Hazard, Griezmann and Perisic should be the rest of the top 5.

Modric deserves this award for the career he’s had, he deserves to have his name written in history but it would be crazy if he went on to win the Ballon D’Or. It would devalue it and the only reason for it to happen is voter fatigue.
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It also doesn't sit right with me that Modric potentially has one of these awards but nothing for Xavi and Iniesta. Is the Balon D'Or vote already finalised? This could give him momentum.
 
RedTillI'mDead said:
By all attacks you mean, he passes to the player who passes to the player who then scores. Yep that sounds like the hardest job....
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A football pitch length is 100M, Modric is the king of half that space, from 20M ahead his goal to 30M in front of the enemy goal, that's also the space were you find the highest density of players. Guys like Modric do the hardest part so the forwards can score a goal in a couple touches and get the spotlight.
 
Ishdalar said:
A football pitch length is 100M, Modric is the king of half that space, from 20M ahead his goal to 30M in front of the enemy goal, that's also the space were you find the highest density of players. Guys like Modric do the hardest part so the forwards can score a goal in a couple touches and get the spotlight.
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If it's that easy to finish you should tell Rashford, Lukaku, Martial and Sanchez!
 
Ishdalar said:
A football pitch iss 100M length, Modric is the king of half that space, from 20M ahead his goal to 30M in front of the enemy goal, that's also the space were you find the highest density of players. Guys like Modric do the hardest part so the forwards can score a goal in a couple touches and get the spotlight.
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Scoring goals is the hardest part since it is the one place you have to be 100% exact. That is why there is so few goals in matches.
 
RedTillI'mDead said:
I just think most people voted Modric off of a few flashes of skill and high energy in the world cup, but for me that's not enough with such heavy hitters doing the hardest part of football in scoring the goals.

After goal scorers or providers I'd generally then look at goalkeepers who have to be the most agile and sharp minded and after that maybe centre backs, the best of whom have to read tackles to perfection.

Midfielder is undoubtedly the most forgiving place to play. Don't get me wrong there are the Roy Keane, Kante types who can act like centre backs in their reading of the game and dictate play with comfort. And obviously Modric has elements of this, but what does he do that makes him stand out? He isn't productive enough to be box to box, or a creator and arguably not as solid as some DMs. So what is he and what makes him stand out?

High energy, good interceptor maybe, good at getting the ball to the match winners. I'm sorry, but it's not enough for best in the world.
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Without a midfielder who can control the ball and create the attack for your team, your attackers won't even be able to find the ball in the final third to score their insane numbers.
 
Ishdalar said:
A football pitch length is 100M, Modric is the king of half that space, from 20M ahead his goal to 30M in front of the enemy goal, that's also the space were you find the highest density of players. Guys like Modric do the hardest part so the forwards can score a goal in a couple touches and get the spotlight.
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If Modric is so good, so precise, why only 7 assists? You are telling me he controls the space 30 metres from goal and as the best player in the world he can't thread a ball for that easy couple of touches?

His tackle success rate was 70%, Iniesta had 90%. So even in the area just in front of the defenders he isn't the best.

I'm sorry, but way too much weight is put on Modric. An incredible player yes, maybe one of the best in the niche position of pure CM. But no not the best player in the world or even near to it.
 
RedTillI'mDead said:
If Modric is so good, so precise, why only 7 assists? You are telling me he controls the space 30 metres from goal and as the best player in the world he can't thread a ball for that easy couple of touches?

His tackle success rate was 70%, Iniesta had 90%. So even in the area just in front of the defenders he isn't the best.

I'm sorry, but way too much weight is put on Modric. An incredible player yes, maybe one of the best in the niche position of pure CM. But no not the best player in the world or even near to it.
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I haven’t got stats but didn’t Zidane and Iniesta put up low stats too? They both played closer to goal too. I could be wrong and this post could be very silly.
 
Peyroteo said:
No. But I believe in 2018 he’s been the best player in the world, tht’s all.

I’ve argued for years that Modric didn’t get the recognition he deserved in these awards. In 2016/17 he should have been in the top 3. I’m happy he won The Best award, it’s a great career achievement and he gets a big individual prize to get his name written in history but he deserves that recognition for the career he’s had, not because of his performances in 2018. Winning both this one and the Ballon D’Or would be going overboard.
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True but as I said does it hurt so much that only one year Ronaldo doesn't win it.
I mean yeah, maybe for Madrid he was better in a previous year or 2 but on the other hand he was immense at the WC.
 
abdo99 said:
Yes. Champions League is the pinnacle. And Croatia's run to the final was a team effort more than anything. Perisic, Rakitic, Mandzukic, the defenders were all as important as Modric.
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True but Modrić was the best player and Croatia certainly wouldn't go that far without him. As for the pinnacle I beg to differ.
 
Keeps It tidy said:
Yeah at least use key passes. I will not mention that other stat since people lose it when it is even mentioned.
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It's a shame these more detailed stats are so hard to obtain! I'm guessing they are stored up in the stats archive for football teams to pay big money for!

I'd like to see 3/4 stats that show Modric is the best in the world! If he is the best and it's not tackling, providing or scoring, highly unlikely to be headers won. That leaves dribbles success, key passes, intercepts. Other stats are potentially flawed e.g number of passes as can easily be inflated by Guardiola style sideways passing.
 
RedTillI'mDead said:
I work in Finance and don't get me wrong I'm on the commercial crystal ball side of finance, but I still believe strong statistics will win over qualitative data.
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Watch some more football, no hard feelings but football is not all about statistics and qualitative data.
 
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