Mourinho comments about our season to L'Equipe

beedoubleyou said:
I don't think Twitter is journalism. I also don't think using commonly understood words to illustrate a point is 'cringy as hell'.

Holt, for once, makes a good point.
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Not really. Journalists use twitter to continue their work.

Most respected journalists refrain from throwing such words. Holt has a strong history of being anti-mourinho and he's allowed his own views to take control over his "journalism" like some keyboard warrior.
 
beedoubleyou said:
I don't think Twitter is journalism. I also don't think using commonly understood words to illustrate a point is 'cringy as hell'.

Holt, for once, makes a good point.
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No it's cringy and stupid. He's a journalist followed by many not a fecking no name posting any nonsense he wants.
 
He's right, while also contributing enormously to the issues and handling the players terribly, especially in public.

I believe he started to see them all as a single entity against him, and in doing so really alienated some good players and decent people.
 
Sandikan said:
If Jose was really being honest, he'd admit that he failed because he wasn't given unlimited funds because he's the absolute textbook example of a cheque book manager.
Doesn't improve players, doesn't look long term, just buys peak age players for top fees, and is found out now not even the Barcelona/Real Madrid types can't do as much of that as they used to.
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Which part of his CV suggest he is not the type of manager you described before he joined Man Utd? This is exactly what he mentioned "the problems are the players, the organization, the ambition". I believed he was brought in to bring immediate success, regardless of playing style, and will be given vast amount of fund to improve the squad to play his way. Unfortunately EPL has changed with Pep and Klopp that even 81 points are no longer enough as title contender, and that's why OGS is trying to manage the expectation.

If you want a coach to play the "united way" (attacking football i assumed), promote youth, look long term, develop players and also challenge the title at the same time, then he is the wrong fit in the beginning.
 
KM said:
Thank you for this. Is he actually criticising us for having high ambitions?
"With ambitions that are in accordance with his past but not his potential as of today" - how else should this statement be construed?
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We have high ambitions but with the current state of the club, some of them are not realistic. That’s what I got from it.
 
KM said:
Thank you for this. Is he actually criticising us for having high ambitions?
"With ambitions that are in accordance with his past but not his potential as of today" - how else should this statement be construed?
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We have history of being the best, but these owners are not too concerned about being the best team now due to how much it would cost and restructure the club.

They make money selling our name and past, thats good enough for them. They are not trophy driven
 
beedoubleyou said:
Nobody likes agreeing with Oliver Holt. But anyone disagreeing with him on this occasion is just wrong.
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I'm no Jose fan. He did and does go into self destruct mode far to often. However, if you say Mourinho was a disaster for the club, you also have to say the club was a disaster for Mourinho.

Massive rebuild job required when he arrived, then funds withheld after he was half way through rebuilding the squad after getting us to (a distant) 2nd place finish. Best points total and league position for us in 6 years.

Woodward is the biggest disaster for the club. Only the Glazers could be claimed to be a bigger disaster.
 
He’s been paid (probably handsomely) for his opinions and is hardly likely to admit his faults.

It’s difficult to argue with what he’s said and Utd’ shite form since Ole got the job has worked out well for him. He’s gone now (together with Utd’s payoff) so we need to forget and move on.

Mourinho is unlikely to admit it but I do think he will have realised and learnt from some of his mistakes during his Utd tenure.

Contrary to what some may think, I don’t think he’s finished, in fact I’m certain he’ll be winning trophies again way before Utd do.
 
I don’t claim to know everything that happened behind the scenes but I know based on what I have seen that:
1. No one can pin all the player acquisitions on Jose. Some of them sure but not all 10 fit who he usually likes to buy. If you think this is the team he’s tried to build, you are clearly refusing to see the facts. That is not a Jose type team. This is on the board. Sure, I can see one or two of the signings not working out that could be a Jose type signing but who doesn’t get it wrong. Does anyone know how many players City bought compared to United during these last 3 seasons? I have a suspicion that we can glean from that the level of backing Jose got. We’ll have to see how well Ole gets backed as well. I hope he does.
2. Stop saying he falls out with club and players in his third season everywhere he went. That is yet again a false statement. He was fine at Porto and Inter. He only falls out with players or club when he either doesn’t have the players’ commitment, or there is player power, or not being backed/supported in either transfer or player power type situations. So, in this situation, I think there is yet again a hierarchy and backing issue.
3. Stop focusing on the half of his third season here because it is not representative of what he can do when he has the conditions to work. It was clear to all of us that he wasn’t trying to get the team anywhere but to prove a point. You can argue whether he was right or wrong but I honestly am glad that he did because the incompetence of these players and club hierarchy needed to be exposed.
4. For those who belittle our achievements of coming in second, you need to have your heads checked because it was a great achievement for this team. You will not see another 2nd place finish with this team of players.
5. We can’t keep harping on like a broken record that Jose has spent this and that but couldn’t get the results. He got results. Not a couple of seasons of spending with our current situation is gonna get us anywhere close to City. They have been spending for years! You can not compare just the last two years.
6. You can’t compare Klopp in this situation either because he has had the patience of his board and fans to build on year after year of progress. They weren’t performing that well only a couple seasons ago. I can remember them being laughed at on this very board.
7. We also need to realize that just because Willian and Perisic are older, it doesn’t mean that they are the wrong acquisitions. We have a young group of players who lack leadership and work rate. They need some examples and leadership in the dressing room. Jose also need more players he can trust and rely on. As will Ole. If you criticize Jose on the older player signings, i hope those posters are consistent in calling out Ole’s as well.
8. The ones saying that we can’t build a dynasty with older players don’t really understand how dynasties are built. You can’t build a dynasty with all young players. You need a good mix of ready made players to keep competing and relevant while letting the younger ones come through and develop. Dynasties never get built overnight and without continuing to be somewhat competitive every season and being relevant, clubs and their attractiveness fade away.
9. This is the most important one...I am not here to discuss Jose and his greatness. There are issues beyond Jose that is eating at this club. Forget Jose and focus on the existing issues because you can just about replace Jose’s name with Ole’s name and many things will apply the same way over the course of the next couple years if he is shown that kind of patience and backing.
 
Unfortunately from this very forum I can see OGS is already a deadman walking. If he doesn't have a good start next season he may not last the entire season.
 
ThierryHenry14 said:
Unfortunately from this very forum I can see OGS is already a deadman walking. If he doesn't have a good start next season he may not last the entire season.
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That is unfortunately what modern football culture become. Fans want instant success even though they may say they are in it for a rebuild. Boards may think they have the stomach for a rebuild but it’s easier said than done. Once pressure builds with poor results or performance, all bets are off.
 
Reddy Rederson said:
You do when the club is run like shit. You do when the players aren’t giving their all. We don’t know what he tried behind closed doors. At some point, you have to say feck it, and call the players out for being shit. We all see it, and I’d rather a manager be honest. “We tried, we have to do better” is cliched nonsense that’s supposed to absolve players of not trying hard enough.

Jose wasn’t perfect, and I think you’ll find it hard finding anyone who says otherwise. But if it’s not clear by now that he wasn’t the issue with this club I honestly don’t know what it’s gonna take to open peoples eyes. His comments about being head coach and not a manger tells me that he was being undermined by someone. Was it woody, or the glazers? Both? Supposedly Joel likes martial, so he’s untouchable. How is Jose, or now ole supposed to get him to work hard they have no power over him? Why did Jose not know what to do with mkhitaryan or fred? Was he really buying players? Far too many questions.

All I know for sure is that these players were shit, then they weren’t, now they are again. It’s clearly not a Jose issue. It’s a club issue. And it seems that no matter who the manager is, if we can’t sort out the club we are fecked. Ole will be the next scape goat come Christmas time. And then whoever after that, and after that. Winter is coming will be uniteds new tag line soon.
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Good post.

You can't hold him responsible for 'spending £400m badly' when it's not clear what involvement he had over recruitment. As Neville said you can look at most other clubs and you know who is in charge of identifying and signing players. At United it's far from straightforward.

Of course he isn't blameless for the players that were brought in not working out, but it's too simplistic to say "the board gave him a budget of £400m to spend so he should have got us challenging for the title" like this is a game of Football Manager.

Not to mention some on here are also blaming him for the state of the squad because he didn't get rid of enough players... This seems a harsh criticism to lay at his door when you consider how incompetent the club have been in getting rid of players that haven't worked out before, during and after Jose. Also it seems clear he was overruled on players he wanted to cash in on.

It seems a testament of Jose's character that he is either the cause of all of the club's ills or somebody who can do no wrong depending on your opinion of the guy. Once the hysteria dies down I think he will be remembered in the history book of United as just one in a string of managers who failed in the post-Ferguson era. He did better than any other in his first two years, then his relationship with the board completely deteriorated and he had a meltdown that led to horrendous third season.

I particularly agree with your final paragraph. Watching the managerial boom-bust cycle is becoming like groundhog day. Too many fans like to pretend that we have unluckily appointed the wrong manager time after time after time and the next will be different... rather than consider there might be a deeper structural cause.
 
Rusholme Ruffian said:
Yeeeeah, still not coming across as particularly 'objective' I have to say!

But how many of us are when it comes to United? We all have our personal beliefs/narratives/agendas.
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I think you want to believe what you want to believe and that's fine. But like I said, everything I've used to assess Mourinho's tenure is factual. From his comments that he was happy with his squad (which oddly ignored) to the results themselves. It's possible to have an unbiased view he was a rubbish manager you know.
 
haram said:
The club is a disaster before and after him whatever way you want to look at it. If you think this is down to Jose you are deluded. It's in front of our faces.
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But you don't bat an eyelid before rinsing Ole. So our problems earlier was the club being in bad shape, and now it's because of Ole. Make up your mind or simply admit to being a Jose fanboi.
 
NK86 said:
But you don't bat an eyelid before rinsing Ole. So our problems earlier was the club being in bad shape, and now it's because of Ole. Make up your mind or simply admit to being a Jose fanboi.
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:lol: Spot on. I said it few times, people who gave every excuse for Jose this season, saying how he wasn't backed, players are crap are the same people who are loudest in rinsing Ole. Somehow all the problems don't exist anymore and it doesn't matter that Ole didn't spend a single pound.
 
NK86 said:
But you don't bat an eyelid before rinsing Ole. So our problems earlier was the club being in bad shape, and now it's because of Ole. Make up your mind or simply admit to being a Jose fanboi.
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I never said our problems now are because of Ole. Well done on a shit post.
 
abdo99 said:
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He is not the only journalist who made these kind of tweets. There are Jose disciples who just troll and abuse everyone for saying anything against Jose. For them Jose > club.
 
haram said:
I never said our problems now are because of Ole. Well done on a shit post.
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You keep coming in ranting about Ole after every poor performance. It's amazing you are still so stuck up Jose's rear that you cannot see that he was part of the overall problem.
 
NK86 said:
You keep coming in ranting about Ole after every poor performance. It's amazing you are still so stuck up Jose's rear that you cannot see that he was part of the overall problem.
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So I cannot be concerned with such an inexperienced manager and still think the club beyond him is a mess? Are you even thinking before you quote me?

The biggest problems are the Glazers, the board and Woodward. Beyond that, Ole has no track record to show he should be in charge of this rebuild.
 
Keeps It tidy said:
During the winter they gave out one of the biggest contracts ever to Sanchez.
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A commercial buy, that Mou claims was given to him by Woodward rather than Perisic, who he saw as a perfect winger to fit in with Lukaku, whether we believe this or not, Arsenal Sanchez is alot more commercially attractive to the club as a whole than Perisic.

lawliet354 said:
Probably the only manager that manage to turn fans into hating their players because he's only capable of boasting about his own achievement without any responsibilities for his failure. The 3 fingers gesture is the most embarrassing thing that United manager have done
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No worse than LvG's diagrams and data sheets after Big Sam accused him of long ball football!

Seriously though, I think Mou should have been one of your better managers and that second place was an achievement, the trouble was the man can not control himself, he was clearly having problems with the board, but he chose to make those arguments public, he went on the press rampage even in preseason last year and once he'd done that he was a deadman walking - he poisoned his final half season with you guys all by himself.
 
It'll never not be funny to read a thread involving Mourinho, on one hand you have a set of fans who think he should be blameless but on the other you have fans who think he is Satan incarnate. As always, the truth is somewhere in the middle.

Also, can we for once get a consensus if the squad is shit or the manager? This place was calling for his after our 81pts finish last season, with dominant argument being how he is holding these amazing group of players back. Fast forward 12 months later and the squad is completely shit and needs culling? So either squad is not as shit as people are making it out to be or Mourinho isn't a shit manager like many proclaim :lol:

We are in deeper trouble than many realize, next season will make it even more abundant. Let's sell our best players, that will clearly make us better. We shall see soon enough.
 
Kush said:
It'll never not be funny to read a thread involving Mourinho, on one hand you have a set of fans who think he should be blameless but on the other you have fans who think he is Satan incarnate. As always, the truth is somewhere in the middle.

Also, can we for once get a consensus if the squad is shit or the manager? This place was calling for his after our 81pts finish last season, with dominant argument being how he is holding these amazing group of players back. Fast forward 12 months later and the squad is completely shit and needs culling? So either squad is not as shit as people are making it out to be or Mourinho isn't a shit manager like many proclaim :lol:

We are in deeper trouble than many realize, next season will make it even more abundant. Let's sell our best players, that will clearly make us better. We shall see soon enough.
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It's both actually. Squad is shit, but Mourinho also didn't do a good job. It really isn't mutually exclusive.
 
Kapardin said:
It's both actually. Squad is shit, but Mourinho also didn't do a good job. It really isn't mutually exclusive.
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If both are shit then how do you explain 2017/18 season and 81 points finish, it doesn't match?
 
Kush said:
If both are shit then how do you explain 2017/18 season and 81 points finish, it doesn't match?
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Chelsea imploded, Arsenal were shite under Wenger and lower midtable teams were incredibly shite and rolled over if you remember. Not saying Mourinho isn't due any credit, but that was an outlier season where even his outdated tactics were enough to nail 2nd. Squad is mediocre, which was evidenced by the eventual drop-off in the second half of the season.

EDIT: Forgot to mention Liverpool were conceding goals left and right until they signed VvD in Jan which led to a massive uptick in form. But they couldn't cope with CL and league campaigns due to thin squad and threw away 2nd. Fact is, both Chelsea and Liverpool were hot on our tails (Chelsea actually went 2nd by 1 point before Conte's meltdown) before they both tailed off for different reasons.
 
Kapardin said:
Chelsea imploded, Arsenal were shite under Wenger and lower midtable teams were incredibly shite and rolled over if you remember. Not saying Mourinho isn't due any credit, but that was an outlier season where even his outdated tactics were enough to nail 2nd. Squad is mediocre, which was evidenced by the eventual drop-off in the second half of the season.

EDIT: Forgot to mention Liverpool were conceding goals left and right until they signed VvD in Jan which led to a massive uptick in form. But they couldn't cope with CL and league campaigns due to thin squad and threw away 2nd. Fact is, both Chelsea and Liverpool were hot on our tails (Chelsea actually went 2nd by 1 point before Conte's meltdown) before they both tailed off for different reasons.
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Sorry but I don't buy that, likes of Spurs, Chelsea and Arsenal imploded even worse this season. Mid-table fodder have been as shite as ever. Just look at the amount of points Top 6 have picked up this year and last.

Our squad is in need of rebuilding but moreso than that they need a good coaching structure. There are much worse squads in the PL who play much more coherent football with a style you can identify, can't say the same about Ole ball. You and many others need to read this. You do not need 11 world beaters to play good football, likes of Bournemouth and Leicester play attacking football on fraction of our budget with a much mediocre squad.
 
Kapardin said:
Chelsea imploded, Arsenal were shite under Wenger and lower midtable teams were incredibly shite and rolled over if you remember. Not saying Mourinho isn't due any credit, but that was an outlier season where even his outdated tactics were enough to nail 2nd. Squad is mediocre, which was evidenced by the eventual drop-off in the second half of the season.

EDIT: Forgot to mention Liverpool were conceding goals left and right until they signed VvD in Jan which led to a massive uptick in form. But they couldn't cope with CL and league campaigns due to thin squad and threw away 2nd. Fact is, both Chelsea and Liverpool were hot on our tails (Chelsea actually went 2nd by 1 point before Conte's meltdown) before they both tailed off for different reasons.
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Apart from your last sentence, do you have any verification or proof for any of that? The verifiable facts are:

In that season got 81 points, which is more than in a couple of title winning seasons under SAF.

You finished second, which is the best you've done since Fergie retired.

Mourinho spent an awful lot of money to achieve this. My opinion is that as a result it does not represent an overachievement in any way.

To say everyone else sucked in 2017-18 is disingenuous and agenda driven. To say that given the quantities of money spent, Mourinbo's recruitment was very poor, which made his overall performance poor is very fair.
 
Kush said:
Sorry but I don't buy that, likes of Spurs, Chelsea and Arsenal imploded even worse this season. Mid-table fodder have been as shite as ever. Just look at the amount of points Top 6 have picked up this year and last.

Our squad is in need of rebuilding but moreso than that they need a good coaching structure. There are much worse squads in the PL who play much more coherent football with a style you can identify, can't say the same about Ole ball. You and many others need to read this. You do not need 11 world beaters to play good football, likes of Bournemouth and Leicester play attacking football on fraction of our budget with a much mediocre squad.
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That season when we finished 2nd, every team including usually solid ones like Everton were incredibly shite (hired Allardyce, for goodness sake). Yes, Chelsea and Arsenal imploded this season, obviously that has no relevance to Jose's second season. We capitalized on it then, but we ourselves imploded this season along with them.

I don't support Ole either. Well, since he has been appointed, I will back him like I did Jose, but I never said I have been convinced by him.

As for the 11 world beaters comment, I agree. Our squad is shit, but so have been the managers.
 
Kush said:
You and many others need to read this.
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This guy concluded it's easy to solve defensive issues when there are so many managers who have struggled to do so. Klopp signed almost entire defense to improve the defense (along with midfielders), City signed entire defense, same with Poch. This defense also had problems under Jose. Solving defensive issues is not about just defensive players either, it should be a team effort something that this article fails to point out. You need you midfielders to cover, you attackers to press from front, your wingers to help. It should be unit, while attacking and defending.

Overall decent article with too many images used which lacks context. Talks about shape and then uses the pic when opponents are counter attacking. Like someone said few days back, you can pick images to prove the defense is shit or how good defense is. You can do it for every team.
 
Jose had to go in the end, but I do think there is a big problem with the people running the club, but also too many players who think they are Manchester United and think they are entitled to play for Manchester United. This is happening to far too many managers. Jose is right about you cannot always be Mr. Nice Guy. The nickname thing needs to stop. You are the manager, the boss, show them that.
 
DomesticTadpole said:
Jose had to go in the end, but I do think there is a big problem with the people running the club, but also too many players who think they are Manchester United and think they are entitled to play for Manchester United. This is happening to far too many managers. Jose is right about you cannot always be Mr. Nice Guy. The nickname thing needs to stop. You are the manager, the boss, show them that.
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Wouldn't mind Jose running his mouth like this though, at this point, he is helping the fans by pointing the finger at Woodward. Unpaid spokesperson for the fans.
 
Celoti23-81 said:
Ok, so you could argue Oxlade Chamberlain had a bad attitude until he played for Klopp!
Same as every player at Real when Solari was manager.
Would Pogba have a bad attitude if he went to Real and play under Zidane? Does he have a bad attitude for France? Don't think so.
Mourinho was toxic, at nearly every club he managed towards the end. Players did not like it. They grew an attitude towards the end.
Is Solskjaer out of his depth, and the players have no faith in his ability as a world class coach.
I bet you your last dollar, if Klopp became manager at Utd tomorrow, every single player would improve.
And by me saying, it doesn't have to be a rebuild, if solskjaer is as good as his first 14 games, then all he needs is a right back, centre back, midfielder and right winger.

Have you seen Lukaku's goal scoring record last 5 years? It's been really good. Is Pogba a world cup winner who played well out of position in that tournament. Did martial score 17 in his first season under a proper coach? Yes.

We've gone from Mourinho who historically has to sign big to succeed to Ole, who no one knows if he is even an average manager/coach
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Mourinho was a poor appointment and within 2-3 years it would always end badly. We hired him for instant success, a glory name and we got it to some extent in season 1, before it went the way it was always going too.

Jose failed like Van Gaal and Moyes - abysmal recruitment and no focus on the future/player development.

We've hit a point where the core of our squad isn't good enough and the entire squad need refreshing.

We cannot challenge for top 4 with the likes of Jones/Young/Smalling/Lingard etc....

Ole may not be as proven as a Pep or Klopp, but what elite level manager would come to this mess?

Ole has a vision, and its the correct vision. A vision to gradually develop young players rather than throwing the cash out of it. I've no issue with spending, but we have spent without purpose and half the players signed aren't good enough or haven't performed anyway.

10 > 12 out within 2 windows for me.

Re-invest and focus on youth.

Yes Lukaku has a good record in front of goal. Have you seen his build up play and 1st touch? Its championship level at best. Has Lukaku been putting 110% in when played? No

Pogba is hot and cold - he'll have good form and bad. Before the world cup, the French fans didn't even want him in the team. He's that sort of player that divides opinion. For me, he's too inconsistent and has been a poor signing.

Martial - see Pogba. Way to inconsistent and doesn't play with any desire or commitment. Just looks half arsed all the time.
 
I’m not dismissing his comments but certain questions must be asked. How do you end up having your own players “eroded” in this fashion? I mean, that players already at the club might be damaged goods when you take over is one thing. But Jose did bring in a fair number of players himself.

Were some of them (how many if so) not his players? I’m not sure I buy this “meddling Ed” narrative some have started spinning. I frankly find it unlikely that Woodward has, at any point, positively forced players on the sitting manager. None of those managers, including Jose, has come out and stated so openly – so it remains a conspiracy theory as far as I’m concerned.

Is there a “culture” at United which erodes players? If so, exactly what does it amount to? How does it work? Complacency, not putting in proper shifts – is this allowed at United? If so, isn’t this on the manager? I have zero faith in Ed, as such, but I can’t see him tolerating a “culture” that is not tolerated by the manager.
 
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