Mourinho: 'I think that some care more than others'

How dare these players be uninspired and not buy in to the manager's modern courageous and exciting ways, how dare they not accept the manager's hypocrisy and double standards in the way he treats them and their peers, how dare they not fight tooth and nail for their leader who protects the group from outsiders in the media and from their own fans turning on them.

Oh wait.
 
So many average players needs to be shown the door. Regardless of who is the manager next season.
 
iluvurmummy said:
How dare these players be uninspired and not buy in to the manager's modern courageous and exciting ways, how dare they not accept the manager's hypocrisy and double standards in the way he treats them and their peers, how dare they not fight tooth and nail for their leader who protects the group from outsiders in the media and from their own fans turning on them.

Oh wait.
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To be honest i didn't realise playing for professional pride and especially the fans was only applicable when they liked the manager. Learn something new everyday
 
We are over complicating this.
When a manager very publicly slates individual team members it’s the beginning of the end. Especially after the nauseating “we win as a team we lose as a team” comment in the presser today.
Whether they deserve it or not it’s not fecking on.
People wonder whether they will be next for the media frenzy.
You cannot build a team spirit operating like that. By all means rip into someone in private but that’s where it should stay.
His man management is from the stone ages and he will never adapt.
How to alienate a team 101 mourinho could write the book. The caniero incident was completely eye opening but hardly the first time he’s been totally out of order. How a man like that could ever manage us is a fecking scandal. He’s a bully who’s time has come. We should have listened sir bobby. Sorry about that.
Don’t let the door hit you on the way out Jose........
 
Smores said:
To be honest i didn't realise playing for professional pride and especially the fans was only applicable when they liked the manager. Learn something new everyday
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I'm not exempting the players, by any means, just find it a bit rich when it comes from the manager who isn't doing all he can himself in keeping a good atmosphere in the environment they work.

There's no excuse for professionals who get paid insane sums of money to down tools. But Mourinho isn't exactly taking any responsibility for it either, but instead blaming everybody else. All the time.
 
iluvurmummy said:
I'm not exempting the players, by any means, just find it a bit rich when it comes from the manager who isn't doing all he can himself in keeping a good atmosphere in the environment they work.

There's no excuse for professionals who get paid insane sums of money to down tools. But Mourinho isn't exactly taking any responsibility for it either, but instead blaming everybody else. All the time.
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In pretty much every walk of life, it's nigh on impossible to give your all if you think your boss is a cnut. Let's face it. We've probably all had good bosses and bad bosses, and it's a heck of a lot harder to work your arse off for the bad ones.
 
T00lsh3d said:
In pretty much every walk of life, it's nigh on impossible to give your all if you think your boss is a cnut. Let's face it. We've probably all had good bosses and bad bosses, and it's a heck of a lot harder to work your arse off for the bad ones.
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Oh for sure! We're not machines, but people after all and bad leadership will naturally affect morale as well as motivation which will influence productivity levels.
 
The man's a disgrace. If some players don't care, you know the finger is going to be pointed at those that are benched as why should they play? If Jose thinks he knows who they are, and plays them well that's just hypocrisy....
 
iluvurmummy said:
How dare these players be uninspired and not buy in to the manager's modern courageous and exciting ways, how dare they not accept the manager's hypocrisy and double standards in the way he treats them and their peers, how dare they not fight tooth and nail for their leader who protects the group from outsiders in the media and from their own fans turning on them.

Oh wait.
Click to expand...
At the risk of sounding old-fashioned, they're not just playing for their manager, they're playing for their club and their fans too. Not to mention their own professional pride, their families, their self-respect. Put the clueless nature of selection and tactics down to Jose but the couldn't be arsed nature of the effort must have some link to personal responsibility. Or am I being naive?
 
Skills said:
It's funny, he actually achieved more at Madrid by winning the title. But even Perez and co knew, what kind of person he was and they refused to extend his contract beyond his initial 3 years. It would've been so easy for them to offer him an extension after that title win, yet we give a new deal 18 months after joining.
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Exactly we have had three relics incharge of this team, we need a fresh approach. The board are a disgrace with three managers the symptoms of a rudderless ship trying to make profits from chaos. Moyes should have gone in January 2014, VG should have gone in December 2015, and mourinho should have been sacked after Sevilla disgrace. If he tried to pull that stunt at real Madrid, or any other huge super power club they would have kicked him out faster than the speed of light.

Jose mourinho is paying the price for burning so many bridges with the players last season, he’s reaping the rewards for this. He cannot recover for what he done last season, and we are in a possible relegation battle the way it’s going. We had one very straight forward start to the season, you would expect atleast 14 to 15 points, and we nowhere near that and we have only played spurs
 
This sort of meltdown happens at so many clubs where there seems to be dressing room unrest and results dip and they never turn it round. Liverpool under Hodgson, then Rodgers, the players don't care. Chelsea under Scolari, AVB, Mourinho, Conte, the players don't care. City under Mancini, the players don't care. Madrid under Mourinho, Benitez, the players don't care.

I don't know whether the "the players aren't trying" reason is legit or it's just a lazy cop-out. It could simply be a lack of confidence and cohesion affecting the players mentally so they're not performing, even though they're trying their best. Whatever it is, the answer for all the clubs I mentioned was to get a new manager in and start fresh. It's inevitable that's the way we're heading.
 
Dominos said:
This sort of meltdown happens at so many clubs where there seems to be dressing room unrest and results dip and they never turn it round. Liverpool under Hodgson, then Rodgers, the players don't care. Chelsea under Scolari, AVB, Mourinho, Conte, the players don't care. City under Mancini, the players don't care. Madrid under Mourinho, Benitez, the players don't care.

I don't know whether the "the players aren't trying" reason is legit or it's just a lazy cop-out. It could simply be a lack of confidence and cohesion affecting the players mentally so they're not performing, even though they're trying their best. Whatever it is, the answer for all the clubs I mentioned was to get a new manager in and start fresh. It's inevitable that's the way we're heading.
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Exactly.
 
Dominos said:
This sort of meltdown happens at so many clubs where there seems to be dressing room unrest and results dip and they never turn it round. Liverpool under Hodgson, then Rodgers, the players don't care. Chelsea under Scolari, AVB, Mourinho, Conte, the players don't care. City under Mancini, the players don't care. Madrid under Mourinho, Benitez, the players don't care.

I don't know whether the "the players aren't trying" reason is legit or it's just a lazy cop-out. It could simply be a lack of confidence and cohesion affecting the players mentally so they're not performing, even though they're trying their best. Whatever it is, the answer for all the clubs I mentioned was to get a new manager in and start fresh. It's inevitable that's the way we're heading.
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Sometimes players mentally blame managers for their own underperformings whether there's fault or not. Leicester being a good example of how quickly they turned on him and removed personal accountability. It's the one time I'll always back bringing in a new manager as the players need that clean slate.

It points to a mentally problem though so the next manager needs to handle that or hope things never go south as these type of players won't drag you out of it.
 
Every player at Liverpool are playing out of their skin. Are Klopp just lucky with the players in his team?

Mourinho should be smart and experienced enough to create an enviroment where the players love to play and are bursting of confidence.

Our players constantly look like they are forced to play, completely shot of confidence at the moment, and thats on him, thats his responsibility.
 
He’s right. You only have to look at their social media pages to see some of them don’t give a feck.

As talented as Pogba is, that’s a man who couldn’t give a damn about United. We lost on Saturday and he was seen laughing with one of the West Ham players down the tunnel at the end of the game. You think any of our Legends like Keane, Giggs, Scholes, Ronaldo or Rooney would have that attitude? No. Winning was the only option for those lads. They wanted to win. They needed to win.

Pogba and Lingard especially only care about their luxurious lifestyle. What haircut they’re gonna get, which girl they’re gonna hang out with or what rap video they’re gonna dance to. I’m sick of it.

People think it will all be hunky dory if Jose goes. Everyone will be all of a sudden world class and we’ll mount a title challenge under Zidane or whoever they bring in.

I hate to be the bearer of bad news but that’s not gonna happen. Because the problem lies with the players. We have established this under Van Gaal and even Moyes. Those two were working with most of this bunch aswell... Smalling, Jones, Young and during LVG’s reign he brought in players who don’t match our DNA or style of play, players who lack the mentality and drive. Players like Martial and Herrera. Those guys might be good enough for Sevilla but they’re not good enough for United and the sooner people realize this, the better.

Mourinho knows all this. That’s why he’s so frustrated and judgemental of the players. He wanted to replace them and mount a title challenge this season. He wanted to WIN. And he knows that’s impossible with this bunch. The board denied him Alderweireld, Sandro, Perisic and Willian. They denied his sellings of Martial and Shaw. Two players he clearly doesn’t fancy and yet is forced to work with. How many other top managers in the Prem have this problem? Pep sure doesn’t.

The fact remains... until we replace Jones, Smalling, Young and Shaw with top quality defenders... just like Pep did when he sold Zabaleta, Demichelis, Kolarov, Clichy and Sagna for Walker, Laporte, Stones, Mendy and Danilo. We will never win the league. And I think the chances of winning it decrease even higher if we’re stupid enough to sack Mourinho and hire somebody like Zidane who has always had a dream squad at his disposal.

Or even worse an unproven manager like Nicky Butt or Sean Dyche. People would be begging for Mourinho back then.
 
You don't need players to care. You just need them to perform up to the standards expected of them. All of this "for the badge" or "look at his social media" stuff is just a lazy excuse for the manager not getting the best out his players and/or players not performing well.

I also refuse to believe all these players became shit right after Mourinho signed them. Whether it's because of age (Sanchez) or adjusting to the PL (Pogba, Martial, etc), it's a load of garbage. The onus is on the manager to get the best out of the squad he has, especially when he hand picked a good portion of the squad.
 
Still ill said:
At the risk of sounding old-fashioned, they're not just playing for their manager, they're playing for their club and their fans too. Not to mention their own professional pride, their families, their self-respect. Put the clueless nature of selection and tactics down to Jose but the couldn't be arsed nature of the effort must have some link to personal responsibility. Or am I being naive?
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If it actually is the case that the players simply can’t be arsed, then I’d be inclined to agree as I noted in a previous post - there is no excuse for professionals to just down tools. I don’t believe the situation with our players to be of that mould, though, as so many potential factors can come to play a part with inadequate management. @Dominos made a good point of how a lack of confidence and cohesion can affect output, and I mentioned how low morale can make it difficult to get motivated. These are all things that players get from their coach/work environment.
 
Ricardo de la Vega said:
Modern football. All mercenaries now. You'll never get the "class of 92" ever happen again.
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Its easy to stay loyal when you're winning the league every year, you're first choice and you are being paid the same or better than your contemporaries playing at other clubs. It also helps when you and your family are settled of course.

To give an extreme example, how many of them do you think would have stayed if United were winning nothing, finishing 5th to 6th every year and they received a salary offer of three to four times what they were making at the time?

Maybe I'm doing the class of 92 a disservice and they all would have stayed at United no matter what.

Its also not just modern football. Figo played for the big two in Spain, Laudrup for the big two and Juventus. Mark Hughes played for both Barcelona and Chelsea
 
Negan said:
He’s right. You only have to look at their social media pages to see some of them don’t give a feck.

As talented as Pogba is, that’s a man who couldn’t give a damn about United. We lost on Saturday and he was seen laughing with one of the West Ham players down the tunnel at the end of the game. You think any of our Legends like Keane, Giggs, Scholes, Ronaldo or Rooney would have that attitude? No. Winning was the only option for those lads. They wanted to win. They needed to win.

Pogba and Lingard especially only care about their luxurious lifestyle. What haircut they’re gonna get, which girl they’re gonna hang out with or what rap video they’re gonna dance to. I’m sick of it.

People think it will all be hunky dory if Jose goes. Everyone will be all of a sudden world class and we’ll mount a title challenge under Zidane or whoever they bring in.

I hate to be the bearer of bad news but that’s not gonna happen. Because the problem lies with the players. We have established this under Van Gaal and even Moyes. Those two were working with most of this bunch aswell... Smalling, Jones, Young and during LVG’s reign he brought in players who don’t match our DNA or style of play, players who lack the mentality and drive. Players like Martial and Herrera. Those guys might be good enough for Sevilla but they’re not good enough for United and the sooner people realize this, the better.

Mourinho knows all this. That’s why he’s so frustrated and judgemental of the players. He wanted to replace them and mount a title challenge this season. He wanted to WIN. And he knows that’s impossible with this bunch. The board denied him Alderweireld, Sandro, Perisic and Willian. They denied his sellings of Martial and Shaw. Two players he clearly doesn’t fancy and yet is forced to work with. How many other top managers in the Prem have this problem? Pep sure doesn’t.

The fact remains... until we replace Jones, Smalling, Young and Shaw with top quality defenders... just like Pep did when he sold Zabaleta, Demichelis, Kolarov, Clichy and Sagna for Walker, Laporte, Stones, Mendy and Danilo. We will never win the league. And I think the chances of winning it decrease even higher if we’re stupid enough to sack Mourinho and hire somebody like Zidane who has always had a dream squad at his disposal.

Or even worse an unproven manager like Nicky Butt or Sean Dyche. People would be begging for Mourinho back then.
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This is post is rife with horrible and inaccurate generalizations. Just b/c a player is active in social media it doesn't mean they don't care about winning. Social media is standard form of communication in this day and age.

It's crazy how Mourinho is successfully turning the fans against certain players to mask his inept squad management.
 
Infra-red said:
Their responsibilities extend beyond just playing for the manager.

He should name and shame the ones who have decided it's acceptable to make a mockery of the club they play for and the fans who support it.
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He lost the moral ground to name and shame anyone for that ever since he disrespected the club to save his own face.
 
Dominos said:
This sort of meltdown happens at so many clubs where there seems to be dressing room unrest and results dip and they never turn it round. Liverpool under Hodgson, then Rodgers, the players don't care. Chelsea under Scolari, AVB, Mourinho, Conte, the players don't care. City under Mancini, the players don't care. Madrid under Mourinho, Benitez, the players don't care.

I don't know whether the "the players aren't trying" reason is legit or it's just a lazy cop-out. It could simply be a lack of confidence and cohesion affecting the players mentally so they're not performing, even though they're trying their best. Whatever it is, the answer for all the clubs I mentioned was to get a new manager in and start fresh. It's inevitable that's the way we're heading.
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100% agree with this actually. We got outplayed by Wolves, Derby, and West Ham. If those teams are comfortable with the ball on their feet why can't we? No way they have better players then we do. But their player seems confident, even Mark Noble looks like Carrick the other night with how comfortable he was on the ball. Hard to play with confidence when your manager is ready to drop you from the squad for a single mistake.
 
lawliet354 said:
100% agree with this actually. We got outplayed by Wolves, Derby, and West Ham. If those teams are comfortable with the ball on their feet why can't we? No way they have better players then we do. But their player seems confident, even Mark Noble looks like Carrick the other night with how comfortable he was on the ball. Hard to play with confidence when your manager is ready to drop you from the squad for a single mistake.
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The issue I have with that logic is, even if th players suffer from lack of confidence, due to the manager or preparation, they should still be able to play at a basic level. I think it’s more like they want to go extra mile to show dissent.
 
The divisive, toxic narcissist is at it again. He can blame whoever he wants, praise whoever he wants and single out whoever he wants. Yet all the players are supposed to stfu? They did not at Chelsea, yet they prospered afterJose, they did not at Madrid, yet they did brilliantly after him. What if a player comes out with his own truth: "... you see that manager over there? He is a rookie, gets paid a fraction of Jose's salary. His squad costs much less than Utd's, but he kicked us out of CL. " "We have no idea how to play a collective game, we have 0 understanding on the pitch." "Look at how it went between Jose and his players recently. Do you think the players at Chelsea and Madrid are cnuts and Jose is a saint? If so, then just here is the truth: those players won big things after he left, whereas Jose will soon be in his notorious third season with us and everything will unfold in front of your own eyes."
We would all call for a head of a player who had said anything like this.
Tldr: feck Jose and his toxicity. The aura of the whole club under a new manager will definitely be more positive.
 
We went from ‘everyone is united’ to ‘some care some don’t’. Mourinho you’ve lost the dressing room, simple as.
 
iluvurmummy said:
How dare these players be uninspired and not buy in to the manager's modern courageous and exciting ways, how dare they not accept the manager's hypocrisy and double standards in the way he treats them and their peers, how dare they not fight tooth and nail for their leader who protects the group from outsiders in the media and from their own fans turning on them.

Oh wait.
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Oh wait in deed. You do know theres more than a few fans that travel to watch this shit. I dont care how shit the manager is, or how much they dont like him. They owe the fans their best effort. Anything less is an utter disgrace.
 
Water Melon said:
The divisive, toxic narcissist is at it again. He can blame whoever he wants, praise whoever he wants and single out whoever he wants. Yet all the players are supposed to stfu? They did not at Chelsea, yet they prospered afterJose, they did not at Madrid, yet they did brilliantly after him. What if a player comes out with his own truth: "... you see that manager over there? He is a rookie, gets paid a fraction of Jose's salary. His squad costs much less than Utd's, but he kicked us out of CL. " "We have no idea how to play a collective game, we have 0 understanding on the pitch." "Look at how it went between Jose and his players recently. Do you think the players at Chelsea and Madrid are cnuts and Jose is a saint? If so, then just here is the truth: those players won big things after he left, whereas Jose will soon be in his notorious third season with us and everything will unfold in front of your own eyes."
We would all call for a head of a player who had said anything like this.
Tldr: feck Jose and his toxicity. The aura of the whole club under a new manager will definitely be more positive.
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Yup, totally worked when moyes got sacked...oh wait, I mean after LVG got sacked...no, wait. It didnt happen then either. Its almost as if sacking managers doesnt actually solve our problems. It would be great if it was that simple, but it should be clear by now that its not. And another manager isnt going to fair any better until the underlying problem has been addressed.
 
DomesticTadpole said:
People are slating the players, but at least they do try to take some responsibility are bad performances. Jose never, ever takes any. He just shifts the blame onto anyone but himself.
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https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/24155092

I wonder how many arguments against jose are actually true, and how many are just hyperbole thats been repeated enough times that its become true?
 
Reddy Rederson said:
Yup, totally worked when moyes got sacked...oh wait, I mean after LVG got sacked...no, wait. It didnt happen then either. Its almost as if sacking managers doesnt actually solve our problems. It would be great if it was that simple, but it should be clear by now that its not. And another manager isnt going to fair any better until the underlying problem has been addressed.
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All of those 3 managers were inept. They bought players and could not manage them properly. I doubt that Woody is the problem. Very likely that he stays, Mou is fired and a new manager comes in. I am sure that after two years the new manager will have done better than Mou, LvG and Moyes. Also I am sure that the atmosphere within the club will be much better.
 
Let's get one thing straight. Those players leading the "protest" against Moyes and LVG are long gone. Since its not the same players, one has to think why do players collectively give up on a manager/coach.

Sure, the players may lack quality, maturity, motivation etc. But, doesn't coaching matter as well. Look at City, Liverpool, Chelsea squad. I'm sure you can name at least one of their regulars who you would consider average at best.

So, players have given up on Jose, like with LVG, like with Moyes. So what do these management have in common?
  • Boring football - check
  • Unclear/reactive tactics - check
  • Creative/Role restriction - check
  • No title challenge - check
Our problem lies with the choice of managers. We give them Sir Alex level of power. None of Moyes, LVG, Jose are progressive managers. They differ in their choice of tactics, thus no continuity in football style and type of recruited players. None came here after a high season, so warning signs were there, we refused to acknowledge them. We, as a club, have simply refused to move on with time.

Mourinho has failed. There's no doubting that fact. Unlike at Chelsea, signings haven't been forced at him. He's been backed in the market. Regardless, results are poor, improvements are slow or non-existent. He has started to defend himself more and more. History shows he's never recovered from this point on. Isn't it foolish to expect anything else?

Look at the current players. How many of them have improved under Jose? How many players of past management does he still prefer over his own purchase?

Mourinho : Grant, Lindelof, Bailly, Dalot, Pogba, Fred, Matic, McTominay, Sanchez, Lukaku
LVG : Romero, Rojo, Shaw, Darmian, Lingard, Pereira, Herrera, Martial, Rashford
Moyes : Fellaini, Mata
Sir Alex : De Gea, Jones, Smalling, Young, Valencia

Look at it from the players' perspective. We pay them more than they could possibly get at any other club. The board also doesn't expect much. They have it easy at United. Why would they jeopardise their position? 11 players (bought by past managers) are in the last year of their contracts. Shouldn't they be better off fighting for a new one? It says something if Jose fell out with his own recruits, doesn't it?

P.S. How can anybody say Pogba is dispensable looking at that squad, specially in the current market.
 
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Has anyone looked at our next 6 games? We could very easily lose every single one of them.
 
Burrow said:
He is absolutely right to call out some of the players, they are so god damn lucky that most of our supporters are busy slating Mourinho for every little thing out there
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This is a big problem at our club. Mourinho is not the only problem, thats for sure.

That said, damage has been done now and Mourinho will have to do something special to turn this mess around.
 
It's player power which unfortunately for football (not just United), it's the way the modern game is run.

You keep players happy they will preform. You put Jose and his tactics into highly attacking teams like Liverpool or City after 2-3 season you'll see them sick of it. Player power shouldn't be a thing but it is. Not one cares about the ''history'' or ''values'' of a club anymore.

If the player does not have some sort of an attachment to the club (supporter as a kid or youth product) it just becomes a job. And like any job, if you're not happy you will under preform.

Just got to deal with how the modern game is. However, in the players defense, I'd be raging if I had to play to Jose's negative tactics week in week out regardless of the opposition. I don't agree with downing tools but they no from previous examples at other clubs, if they want the manager gone, they just have to accumulate bad results and performances as a team.
 
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