Mourinho just said we were always fighting for second place in this group

[Cassidy]

They also sack underperforming managers on the spot.

Hear hear

 

[Random Task]

He's gone full Moyes.

You never go full Moyes.

 

[Infra-red]

Mourinho talks like Matuidi, Bentancur and Cuadrado are hot s**t. None of those players are world class. They've got their weaknesses too. We need to stop making excuses for ours and talking up other teams to deflect responsibility.

Their XI is much, much better than ours. It's not even close.

 

[davidmichael]

I just don’t get why we’re stringing this whole thing out until the end of the season ? There’s Zidane, Conte and Jardim ALL available and even Wenger yet we’re going out wait until it’s mathematically impossible to not get a Champions League spot by which time I’d imagine all four of those managers will be at new clubs by then.

I don’t care who we’re playing at Old Trafford we should always expect to win or at least play to win and Jose coming out and basically saying we were expected to lose and playing for second place is unacceptable, Moyes still to this day is ridiculed for saying as such and he has nowhere near the reputation Jose does nor ever demanded to be respected based on past accomplishments.

Losing to Juventus tonight is simply just a continuation and example of how far we’re falling behind the elite and Jose is not the man to change that or alter it, his apologists can defend him as much as they like but the reality is last season was as good as it’ll ever get for us under Jose and someone younger with a genuine long term plan is very much needed and now.

 

[fellaini's barber]

Sad thing is, I think Juve were poor and there for the taking. He's making it sound like they were prime Barca and he was managing Everton

 

[Nico87]

And United also broke the British transfer record when signing Veron. What I am trying to say is... How is this relevant? It's not that United can't sign top players, it's just that they do not do it often enough and there is no more class of 92 or transfer jackpots like Ronaldo/Vidic/Evra to fall back on. United need many more top players if they are to compete and Mourinho (just like every manager) deserves a chance to correct some of the errors made in the transfer window.

Because Mourinho is trying to claim we aren't competing off the field with these teams, when the truth is we are outspending them and attracting players he wants. I agree we desperately needed a centre half this summer and should be more ruthless in moving on the ones who aren't at this level and haven't worked but to try and make out than we are playing poor football and not competing with the bigger clubs is because we are not matching them in the transfer market like Jose implied there, to me at least, is extremely false.

 

[Im red2]

Our set up is woeful, we have Lukaku up front aginst a team like Juventus??? Give me a break FFS. And we play long balls up to him, his head is like a lego block ffs

 

[Jojo <3 Mou]

I'm amazed that the Man United fans on this forum are so eager to be fooled and to rush to anger without the benefit of the full statement or context.

It would serve us all very well to ensure that a statement is in fact true and accurate before we react.

 

[Ace of Spades]

Mourinho talks like Matuidi, Bentancur and Cuadrado are hot s**t. None of those players are world class. They've got their weaknesses too. We need to stop making excuses for ours and talking up other teams to deflect responsibility.

Exactly, he has also spent a fortune himself, but takes no responsibility for his own signings being shit and just cries and whines like a giant manbaby for more money. Someone should ask him why he can't get the team to the top level after spending 400m on transfers, and why his own signings are such flops.

 

[saivet]

Spurs topped their group last season with Real Madrid. Roma topped their group with Atletico and Chelsea. Us topping the group would hardly have been mind blowing as some want to believe.

But I guess football heritage?

 

[Garethw]

I just don’t get why we’re stringing this whole thing out until the end of the season ? There’s Zidane, Conte and Jardim ALL available and even Wenger yet we’re going out wait until it’s mathematically impossible to not get a Champions League spot by which time I’d imagine all four of those managers will be at new clubs by then.

I don’t care who we’re playing at Old Trafford we should always expect to win or at least play to win and Jose coming out and basically saying we were expected to lose and playing for second place is unacceptable, Moyes still to this day is ridiculed for saying as such and he has nowhere near the reputation Jose does nor ever demanded to be respected based on past accomplishments.

Losing to Juventus tonight is simply just a continuation and example of how far we’re falling behind the elite and Jose is not the man to change that or alter it, his apologists can defend him as much as they like but the reality is last season was as good as it’ll ever get for us under Jose and someone younger with a genuine long term plan is very much needed and now.

Excellent post mate! Well said!

 

[Infra-red]

I just don’t get why we’re stringing this whole thing out until the end of the season ? There’s Zidane, Conte and Jardim ALL available and even Wenger yet we’re going out wait until it’s mathematically impossible to not get a Champions League spot by which time I’d imagine all four of those managers will be at new clubs by then.

I don’t care who we’re playing at Old Trafford we should always expect to win or at least play to win and Jose coming out and basically saying we were expected to lose and playing for second place is unacceptable, Moyes still to this day is ridiculed for saying as such and he has nowhere near the reputation Jose does nor ever demanded to be respected based on past accomplishments.

Losing to Juventus tonight is simply just a continuation and example of how far we’re falling behind the elite and Jose is not the man to change that or alter it, his apologists can defend him as much as they like but the reality is last season was as good as it’ll ever get for us under Jose and someone younger with a genuine long term plan is very much needed and now.

Woodward saves the Glazers some money if he does it this way.

 

[SuperiorXI]

My man puts three fingers up every time he comes under the slightest bit of pressure. Living in the past.

 

[ErranMorad]

Mourinho talks like Matuidi, Bentancur and Cuadrado are hot s**t. None of those players are world class. They've got their weaknesses too. We need to stop making excuses for ours and talking up other teams to deflect responsibility.

He rejected Cuadrado at Cheslea.

The problem once again was that we sat back with 4 defenders tucked in & Rashford and Martial playing as auxiliary fullbacks. Allowed Juve to ease into the game and play to their strength for the entire length of the first half. We tried to push forward a little bit in the second half, but once again it wasn't enough to get any sort of a result. It's all because of Jose's terrible tactics. Every game follows a similar pattern.

 

[fishfingers15]

I'm amazed that the Man United fans on this forum are so eager to be fooled and to rush to anger without the benefit of the full statement or context.

It would serve us all very well to ensure that a statement is in fact true and accurate before we react.

You are amazed that we all believe he said those stuff in the post match press meet?

 

[Hoof the ball]

Their XI is much, much better than ours. It's not even close.

Overall, yes, but they're also better coached and more systematic in their approach. Players know how to progress up and down the field, how to create space, the players space out well across the field and create overloads. Allegri is a hell of a coach.

That being said, we cannot concede that Matuidi (past his prime), Bentancur (not even at his) and Cuadrado (we all know his limitations) is acceptable to be dominated against.

 

[Skills]

My man puts three fingers up every time he comes under the slightest bit of pressure. Living in the past.

He'd fit in so well at Liverpool. Made for each other. It's Romeo & Juliet scale of tragedy that their fates have always lined them up against each other rather than alongside one another.

 

[Hound Dog]

Because Mourinho is trying to claim we aren't competing off the field with these teams, when the truth is we are outspending them and attracting players he wants. I agree we desperately needed a centre half this summer and should be more ruthless in moving on the ones who aren't at this level and haven't worked but to try and make out than we are playing poor football and not competing with the bigger clubs is because we are not matching them in the transfer market like Jose implied there, to me at least, is extremely false.

We had that excellent thread comparing spend adjusted for inflation... Mourinho may have spent a lot but had an aging squad and not much of a foundation to work with.

 

[devilish]

Lets have a look at Juventus side

Sczesny is not the best goalkeeper in the world. He costed Juventus 12.5m

Sandro was bought from Porto for 26m euros (less then Bailly),
Cancelo was signed for 35m from Valencia after spending a year at Inter.
Chiellini was bought on cheap
Bonucci was brought back in a swap deal with Caldara (rated 35m euros)

Pjanic was bought from Roma for 32m euros
Betancur was bought from Boca for 9.4m euros
Matuidi was bought from PSG for a 20m + 10m fee
Cuadrado was bought from Chelsea for 20m

Dybala was bought from 32m euros as well
Which leads us to Ronaldo being the only big signing.

Meanwhile under Mou United had spent 30m on Bailly, 30m on Lindelof, 30m on Mkhitaryan, 89m on Pogba, 50m on Fred, 40m on Matic, 75m on Lukaku and 20m on Dalot. We also made Sanchez one of the most paid players in football. So before pointing at Juventus for 'going for the best' he should better ask himself why we had spend more then them for a team who was clearly outplayed by a team assembled by mostly Lidl like signings.

 

[E-mal]

We are United, we should be fighting for top of everything and to the last second of every game.

Think Jose saying we are always fighting for second is a sly dig at the board for not giving the players he wanted.

Feck him and the players he wanted, there I say it. May be I get banned but I have expressed how I feel.
The ones he's bought himself how well have they played? A past it manager who tries to remind people of how great he once was.
It must frustrate him to know he is no longer u0 to it.

 

[Infra-red]

Overall, yes, but they're also better coached and more systematic in their approach. Players know how to progress up and down the field, how to create space, the players space out well across the field and create overloads. Allegri is a hell of a coach.

That being said, we cannot concede that Matuidi (past his prime), Bentancur (not even at his) and Cuadrado (we all know his limitations) is acceptable to be dominated against.

I don't disagree re the coach - Allegri is better than current Mourinho. I do think any coach in the world would struggle to get top level performances out of our squad, though. Most of them aren't good enough.

 

[wub1234]

The funny thing about this is that United signed what was supposed to be one of Juventus' best players for a world record transfer fee. Yet according to the manager who signed him, United can't possibly compete with Juventus.

That would be like the manager of Real Madrid after they'd signed Ronaldo (or van Nistelrooy, or Beckham) stating that they couldn't possibly compete with United, and they'd have to settle for second place, obviously.

 

[Hoof the ball]

He rejected Cuadrado at Cheslea.

The problem once again was that we sat back with 4 defenders tucked in & Rashford and Martial playing as auxiliary fullbacks. Allowed Juve to ease into the game and play to their strength for the entire length of the first half. We tried to push forward a little bit in the second half, but once again it wasn't enough to get any sort of a result. It's all because of Jose's terrible tactics. Every game follows a similar pattern.

You've got it.

I'll give you one instance, minor, that highlights our issue. We got the ball, spread it from left to centre to Mata, who spread it right into space. Young should have already been arriving on the ball, however, he was miles behind it and had to sprint full speed just to nick the ball and draw the foul. This is the difference between us and them. Their FB's progressively move up the field and they're always high, wide and in the right position. Our FB's just improv it, and mostly as per your comment, they're tucked in deep.

There's one very important thing that I always agreed with LvG on, even if I didn't agree on everything, and it was this. The players we have play with their instinct first and their brain second. Too much instinct makes for tactical madness.

 

[devilish]

So you think with Jose gone everything will be rosy and great with Ed at the helm?

As for the other stuff better not go to them cause it's pretty silly but each on their own.

Of course not. I think we need proper football people at the helm. All I am saying is that proper football people wouldn't have gone for Mourinho. In matter of fact to quote my previous post only clowns like Woodward, Moratti, Perez and Abramovich would go for this toxic person.

Now lets have a look at this Juventus great side who only go for the best

Sczesny is not the best goalkeeper in the world. He costed Juventus 12.5m

Sandro was bought from Porto for 26m euros (less then Bailly),
Cancelo was signed for 35m from Valencia after spending a year at Inter.
Chiellini was bought on cheap
Bonucci was brought back in a swap deal with Caldara (rated 35m euros)

Pjanic was bought from Roma for 32m euros
Betancur was bought from Boca for 9.4m euros
Matuidi was bought from PSG for a 20m + 10m fee
Cuadrado was bought from Chelsea for 20m

Dybala was bought from 32m euros as well
Which leads us to Ronaldo being the only big signing.

Meanwhile under Mou United had spent 30m on Bailly, 30m on Lindelof, 30m on Mkhitaryan, 89m on Pogba, 50m on Fred, 40m on Matic, 75m on Lukaku and 20m on Dalot. We also made Sanchez one of the most paid players in football. So before pointing at Juventus for 'going for the best' he should better ask himself why we had spend more then them for a team who was clearly outplayed by a team assembled by mostly Lidl like signings.

 

[luke511]

He's had 3 windows to buy players and has been given a huge amount of money to spend. He acts like the shape of our squad is the club's fault and not his.

 

[Infra-red]

The funny thing about this is that United signed what was supposed to be one of Juventus' best players for a world record transfer fee. Yet according to the manager who signed him, United can't possibly compete with Juventus.

That would be like the manager of Real Madrid after they'd signed Ronaldo (or van Nistelrooy, or Beckham) stating that they couldn't possibly compete with United, and they'd have to settle for second place, obviously.

The problem is that Pogba and De Gea are the only players in our squad who'd stand a chance of getting a game at Juve.

 

[saivet]

Mentioned it in the match thread but Spurs last season really and truly blew it against Juve last season. They dominated the possession in both legs with nearly 70% in Turin. We could do with improvements in our team but our biggest problem is the negativity Jose brings. How can we challenge when we don't even maximise what we have?

 

[Jojo <3 Mou]

You are amazed that we all believe he said those stuff in the post match press meet?

I'm amazed at people's willingness to be fooled. We know how certain "journalist" and sources are, yet we seek their quotes and them relay them as gospel. We don't want the truth. See Luckhurst appreviated quotes. We want to be angry.

 

[wub1234]

I'm amazed that the Man United fans on this forum are so eager to be fooled and to rush to anger without the benefit of the full statement or context.

It would serve us all very well to ensure that a statement is in fact true and accurate before we react.

I checked this before posting. He said: "Since the draw we knew that it would be a fight with Valencia to the second position and that is what we’re going to try."

 

[Eric's Seagull]

Feck him and the players he wanted, there I say it. May be I get banned but I have expressed how I feel.
The ones he's bought himself how well have they played? A past it manager who tries to remind people of how great he once was.
It must frustrate him to know he is no longer u0 to it.

Think that is a great post, very honest opinion and a lot of it sums up how I feel about the situation we are in now.

 

[SuperiorXI]

He'd fit in so well at Liverpool. Made for each other. It's Romeo & Juliet scale of tragedy that their fates have always lined them up against each other rather than alongside one another.

Even the scousers are laughing at us right now, I'm pretty certain they'd not trade.

 

[Ekeke]

Mourinho is giving good examples of Juventus spending money far better than he has.

We have Ander as player of the year, then we sign Matic and Fred.

Now we need to sign someone else to take over from Matic and who knows when Fred gets another game.

 

[VP89]

Can't be bothered to pull up your posts but I thought you were against the idea of a Manchester United manager giving up and aspiring to be like our rivals.

I am. But I think we do need a reality check that some of our players aren't good enough when compared to a club that's one of the favourites to win the Champions League.

 

[Jojo <3 Mou]

I checked this before posting. He said: "Since the draw we knew that it would be a fight with Valencia to the second position and that is what we’re going to try."

I was referring to the Luckhurst quote that is circulating.

Which draw is he referring to? The group draws or the draw vs Valencia?

 

[wub1234]

The problem is that Pogba and De Gea are the only players in our squad who'd stand a chance of getting a game at Juve.

Well, I doubt Pogba would on current form, but whose fault is that? At this stage, Mourinho must accept responsibility for his playing squad.

 

[Im red2]

Lets have a look at Juventus side

Sczesny is not the best goalkeeper in the world. He costed Juventus 12.5m

Sandro was bought from Porto for 26m euros (less then Bailly),
Cancelo was signed for 35m from Valencia after spending a year at Inter.
Chiellini was bought on cheap
Bonucci was brought back in a swap deal with Caldara (rated 35m euros)

Pjanic was bought from Roma for 32m euros
Betancur was bought from Boca for 9.4m euros
Matuidi was bought from PSG for a 20m + 10m fee
Cuadrado was bought from Chelsea for 20m

Dybala was bought from 32m euros as well
Which leads us to Ronaldo being the only big signing.

Meanwhile under Mou United had spent 30m on Bailly, 30m on Lindelof, 30m on Mkhitaryan, 89m on Pogba, 50m on Fred, 40m on Matic, 75m on Lukaku and 20m on Dalot. We also made Sanchez one of the most paid players in football. So before pointing at Juventus for 'going for the best' he should better ask himself why we had spend more then them for a team who was clearly outplayed by a team assembled by mostly Lidl like signings.

Which is just more proof that the people running the club are not up tothe task. The 75Mill , on Lukaku makes me almost cry.

 

[wub1234]

Which draw is he referring to? The group draws or the draw vs Valencia?

It doesn't make any difference, it is defeatist either way. If United were to beat Juventus home and away then they would be in total control of the group. In fact, they can still win it if they win in Turin.

Can you imagine Ferguson saying this, and just surrendering so meekly and publicly?

 

[fellaini's barber]

Spurs topped their group last season with Real Madrid. Roma topped their group with Atletico and Chelsea. Us topping the group would hardly have been mind blowing as some want to believe.

But I guess football heritage?

This. Spurs put up fantastic performances against the defending champions but us beating Juve at home is a stretch too far for us.

 

[James Peril]

I just don’t get why we’re stringing this whole thing out until the end of the season ? There’s Zidane, Conte and Jardim ALL available and even Wenger

Wow, that’s irrational. Conte, the guy that was sacked by Chelsea on the same grounds as Mourinho? Jardim that managed to bring Monaco into the relegation zone before getting sacked? The ancient Wenger that hasn’t challenged for the PL or CL since 2006 and got sacked by Arsenal for failing to cope with the 21st century? Sounds like great ideas! Let’s sack Mou and pay him insane sums to bring in one of these guys. With Zidane there is a case, but it’s still hugely risky. First of all, how good is he really? His league record isn’t great and that settled Real-side was one of the best teams in history, packed with leaders and winners. Secondly, he doesn’t speak the language used in this country.

It’s not easy.

 

[fishfingers15]

I'm amazed at people's willingness to be fooled. We know how certain "journalist" and sources are, yet we seek their quotes and them relay them as gospel. We don't want the truth. See Luckhurst appreviated quotes. We want to be angry.

Samuel Luckhurst often goes to cringy lengths to protect Mou

I am. But I think we do need a reality check that some of our players aren't good enough when compared to a club that's one of the favourites to win the Champions League.

I personally think that you have to come out of Mou's backside a bit, but for the sake of politeness I think you need a reality check as well that our players are producing output that's much less than their potential. Half the Serie A teams gave Juve a much tougher game than us at home and we are Manchester fecking United and not Bolton Wanderers.

 

[ErranMorad]

You've got it.

I'll give you one instance, minor, that highlights our issue. We got the ball, spread it from left to centre to Mata, who spread it right into space. Young should have already been arriving on the ball, however, he was miles behind it and had to sprint full speed just to nick the ball and draw the foul. This is the difference between us and them. Their FB's progressively move up the field and they're always high, wide and in the right position. Our FB's just improv it, and mostly as per your comment, they're tucked in deep.

There's one very important thing that I always agreed with LvG on, even if I didn't agree on everything, and it was this. The players we have play with their instinct first and their brain second. Too much instinct makes for tactical madness.

That is a major problem and is why our wide players struggle so much. You could count instances on your fingers the number of times Shaw overlapped Martial & created an overload on that side of the pitch in the Juve half. Or for that matter, Young and Rashford. I remember the Matuidi foul you are talking about. It is a constant theme in our games when the FB's don't push forward and stay back. People think Valencia has lost pace and that is why he hangs back or does he jumping around the ball routine before passing it backwards, but I bet those are the instructions to him. Our fb's don't help out our attack and we are always at a big numerical disadvantage while attacking. Don't understand why either when we have Matic, who sits back almost as a third CB.