Barcelona, City, Liverpool possibly all these 3 are better. Speculative I know. But they lack someone with the same class as Pjanic in midfield.
Mourinho just said we were always fighting for second place in this group
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik (@Rood) is joined by CEO Duncan Drasdo and Financial Director Andy Green from the Manchester United Supporters Trust for a special episode on all things behind the scenes at Old Trafford including a brief history of MUST and their aims today, views on INEOS and Sir Jim Ratcliffe so far, and the Old Trafford regeneration.
PSG? City? Madrid may have lost their best player but they still have a number of world class players still there, who are better than Juve's players (Cortious, Marcelo, Carvajal, Modric, Kroos, Bale).
You don't actually say it. If he has had those expectations from the start then no wonder everything is so negative. You have to make players think they can beat anyone, not send them out thinking they are 2nd best.
Yes. We are likely fighting for 2nd, but the comment summed up everything about the present Jose. We are a second rate team thanks to him.
I do think to some extent that a few of them were low tier on the assummed list, and I do think we have a big problem in the recruitment organisation at the club of some kind that makes a promising, up and coming figure like Ribalta decide his future belong elsewhere than with us so fast. There's no red thread or clearly stated strategy to be seen by me, sadly.
Not thinking you were harsh tbh. They are one of the best teams in Europe and their defensive line looked miles better with Chiellini spreading passes all night looking at times like prime Scholes. But, overall it's also about their movement with the ball which looked like the biggest difference. And in such condition, every individual will look better.
Talking mostly about first half, in second, with our aggressivity and Pogba getting more on the ball we did better.
Oh and they also need a better alternative to Mandzukic when he isn't ok. The rest is like you say they are miles ahead when we discuss tactically, some like to say tatics are overrated but the way you operate on the pitch will make great players even better, while on the other side you look at players like Lukaku and you even feel sorry for them.
Their defence is a well-oiled machine because they are coached properly and have been for years.
Movement with (or without) the ball goes under coaching, so we agree.
We did better, but just running around a bit more is not good enough. We didn't score. That is all that matters. Again we came out of the box sluggish and let the other side take control. When will they ever learn? They should be sent out to go straight for the throat, it might not work, but at least you can see they are trying to actually win the game. It appears that they are sent out to keep it cagey then they concede the inevitable goal and all plans go out of the window.
Yes. Nobody makes themselves available for a pass, so people always need to try risky passes and everyone moans when they give the ball away. Pass and move. Defences must love playing against us.
We were rubbish in the first half, did well in the second. There was a touch of fortune to Juve's goal and we restricted them to speculative efforts. Didn't threaten enough, but could have easily got a draw in the end. Juventus are a better team right now, I don't think there's anything to get too excited about. Next.
The best player on the pitch from our point of view was his 50m CB Lindelof. Lukaku is out of form and we've no back up. Sanchez was a swap with a player that won't make in the PL, it made sense at the time. As for Fred, its a bit of a mystery, something isn't right there. Bottom line is Mourinho wasn't able to strengthen in the positions he wanted during the summer - CB in particular. And we remain way too light upfront. The is all down to poor transfer policy, going back years. Underinvestment. Going back years. We've spent plenty but the reality is we've still fallen behind. Rudderless as a club, rudderless. Its increasingly obvious its an impossible job for any coach, SAF was working miracles and the wonders had no long term plan or strategy in place. Mourinho is the first one with the balls to point this out. He's dead right. Biggest club in the world and all that...
I cringed when I heard him say that - he did it twice as well.
I had a bit of support for him after the Chelsea game but I've had enough now - we are not going to win anything this season so I'd get rid of him.
Thanks for reassuring us that our season isn't going right down the pan.
Yeah, he didn't get a CB, we all know that. In previous windows he got the players he wanted and yet he is doing feck all with them. You are trying to hand-wave it away with things like 'it made sense at the time' - yeah it did but now it looks like he swapped one failed signing of his for another. Can you really not understand why many of us are skeptical of him being given even more money? His returns on investment have been disastrous.
'Underinvestment' and 'impossible job'? Just...stop. We have invested massively since Fergie's retirement. The two most expensive transfers ever made by a PL club are both ours. So is no. 5. We just wasted a lot of money, not least because of poor managerial appointments and a poor structure that gives these managers too much power. Thank feck that at least Mourinho did not get to swap Martial for Willian.
Oh it's too late for that. But let's see what happens and try not to get too histerical along the way.
Well we have Everton, Bournemouth and then City in the league before the international break. It could be great or the end.
We weren't always favourites under Fueguson but you would never...never hear him talk like that .
Exactly. We always went in with a fighting attitude.
Nothing says future planning than making bunch of 30 year olds your primary targets.
I totally agree with this part. I don't think there is any point going forward with Jose at the helm because we are not making relevant progress.
He said he needed 3 summer transfer windows and he had them, it could be argued that he did not get his extra centre-back this summer but that maybe because the board does not have faith in him anymore, due to him signing two centre-backs already and regularly dumping them when it suits him. If he did not get all his players he should just stay strong for the team and stop criticising what players he has got as it sends out message to our 'rivals' that something is wrong.
It could be argued that we did well by getting 2nd place last season, but this is United 2nd place should mean crap all. Finishing 19 points behind City is nothing to shout about any way and if people think they had an unusually high amount of points last season, look at at Barcelona 2009/10 (99 points), 2010/2011 (96 points) and also Munich 2013/14 (90 points from 34 games) & 2015/16 (88 points from 34 games) doesn't seem like a fluke. I think he is capable of doing it regularly and is upping the bar on what it takes to win the League.
We need someone to get us up there challenging with them, I originally Jose was the man to do this but in my opinion he is not.
Let's face it, we all knew first place will be reserved for Juve, because we're utter shiit under Mourinho, still things like these should go unspoken, especially by the manager of the team so deprived of confidence.
What I'm curious about is what's with this sudden urge to tell the truth how it is? I mean he seems fine lying to us about our squad quality, about performances of his favourites and that famous "my player is always best in the world for me" bs whilst throwing his own players under the bus .
What I'm curious about is what's with this sudden urge to tell the truth how it is? I mean he seems fine lying to us about our squad quality, about performances of his favourites and that famous "my player is always best in the world for me" bs whilst throwing his own players under the bus .
Stupid comment to make as if he doesn't even think the team are the best in their group, how is the mentality supposed to embed in to the squad that we're good enough to win anything?! Right now there are lots of teams playing better than us domestically, does that mean we are only fighting to finish in the top half?
You could easily argue there are better teams in the UCL than Juventus so basically he's writing us off from winning the competition which would be fine if we weren't Manchester United and had a squad worth hundreds of millions of pounds.
Mourinho got a huge stroke of luck yesterday with Valencia failing to win in Switzerland, but 2 of our last 3 fixtures are Juventus and Valencia both away and we might yet end up needing more luck just to get out of the group.
You could easily argue there are better teams in the UCL than Juventus so basically he's writing us off from winning the competition which would be fine if we weren't Manchester United and had a squad worth hundreds of millions of pounds.
Mourinho got a huge stroke of luck yesterday with Valencia failing to win in Switzerland, but 2 of our last 3 fixtures are Juventus and Valencia both away and we might yet end up needing more luck just to get out of the group.
Imagine how Smalling and Lindelof, who played well, feel hearing that ? How's that supposed to help us going forward. Merely serves his own personal gains.
Well, what we saw yesterday was quite embarrassing, specially the first half. Mourinho is aware of the big difference there is between the two clubs and he knows our squad is short. Not sure whose problem it is (Edd, Mourinho, the board in general, etc..) but it's obvious that we need more players if we want to aim for big trophies. If we can't get anyone in the winter window, I am afraid there is absolutely nothing to do this year in any competition.
About the group, everyone knew that Juventus would be the 1st one, and the 2nd position would be between us & Valencia. We need to win against Valencia, otherwise we are out, and I am not sure if we will beat / draw there...
About the group, everyone knew that Juventus would be the 1st one, and the 2nd position would be between us & Valencia. We need to win against Valencia, otherwise we are out, and I am not sure if we will beat / draw there...
Mourinho has always only cared about himself. When things aren't going well what does he do? He defers blame and then brings up past achievements at other clubs instead of focusing on how he can make things better at United. He's an egomaniac and right now we're on the edge clinging on. Once the players do give up on him completely (and they will sooner or later) he'll have another meltdown and destroy everything around him. I just wish we'd sack him before that day comes.
It's a pop at the board
So, to summarize, everyone pretty much agrees that Juve are far better than us and were always favourites to win the group. We're all allowed to think that and say it, but the manager of the team is not, even after we've just been given a football lesson by the aforementioned team.
Does Sean Dyche also have to pretend that Burnley are in with a shot of winning the Premier League, or is Mourinho the only manager who isn't allowed to speak the truth about things that are self-evident to absolutely everyone everywhere?
Does Sean Dyche also have to pretend that Burnley are in with a shot of winning the Premier League, or is Mourinho the only manager who isn't allowed to speak the truth about things that are self-evident to absolutely everyone everywhere?
It's mind games to make Juve think it's in the bag then BANG! we absolutely waste them in Turin. Oldest book in the trick.
So then he should have had then right up for the Valencia game to make sure we get 2nd place, now even that is up in the air.
Our second half "improvements" are just a myth. The other teams let us back into our recent games. Last night Juventus were happy to play on the break 2nd half. We had more of the ball as a result but were utterly clueless.
We've a decent bunch of players right now - get rid of Mourinho while we still have them onside. It's a joke.
We've a decent bunch of players right now - get rid of Mourinho while we still have them onside. It's a joke.
Even Ajax say they want to battle for first place in their group. Everyone laughed at them, but look at em now, topping their group over Bayern and Benfica.
Ofcourse Juve are better, but if yer United at least pretend you want to try and beat em anyway?! Show a bit of balls
Ofcourse Juve are better, but if yer United at least pretend you want to try and beat em anyway?! Show a bit of balls
Just done with this guy, i am done!
Yes we should have beaten Valencia at home. I'm not saying Mourinho is doing a brilliant job of managing the team - indeed there are plenty of things to criticize him about in that regard, without needing to resort to having a go at him for stating the blatantly obvious.
He brings all these problems on himself. Nobody in the press is brave enough to bring up why we didn't beat Valencia, when they couldn't even beat Young Boys. The press have to ask the right questions, but they don't.
Liverpool best PSG with players like Milner and Wijnaldum. Spurs outplayed Madrid at home. But us beating Juve at home is mission impossible. And his defenders lap it up
Exactly. It is how the manager prepare his team for the game tactically and mentally. Jose is inept at both.
Not to overly defend Jose, he's absolutely messed a lot of what is in his control up recently, but he absolutely has a point.
Juve's summer signings showed a clear sign of intent, and they elevated the quality of their squad because of them. The signings we've made have not had any impact on our squad whatsoever. We struggled in the second half of last season and have done nothing to counteract that in the market, whilst all the teams around us (bar Spurs) have improved.
I know I sound like an old record, but everyone knows what sort of manager Jose is. Whether he has the ability to be that manager anymore is besides the point, if he's your manager, you have to back him in the market. Otherwise it's obvious what's going to happen.
I'm so bored of United ticking along in limbo - it's leading to mediocrity seeping in everywhere, and it just looks like the team, staff and fans are losing interest. I was pumped for last night, and it fecking hurt to see us play like that.
Juve's summer signings showed a clear sign of intent, and they elevated the quality of their squad because of them. The signings we've made have not had any impact on our squad whatsoever. We struggled in the second half of last season and have done nothing to counteract that in the market, whilst all the teams around us (bar Spurs) have improved.
I know I sound like an old record, but everyone knows what sort of manager Jose is. Whether he has the ability to be that manager anymore is besides the point, if he's your manager, you have to back him in the market. Otherwise it's obvious what's going to happen.
I'm so bored of United ticking along in limbo - it's leading to mediocrity seeping in everywhere, and it just looks like the team, staff and fans are losing interest. I was pumped for last night, and it fecking hurt to see us play like that.