Mourinho just said we were always fighting for second place in this group

dove said:
:lol: C'mon now, we were shite and lucky to lose only 0-1. There was no pen. The only chance we got is from Pogba's shot well outside the box. Apart from that we had 90 minutes of nothing. Juve didn't even have to break a sweat to beat us. Our manager was seemingly happy as well to be only 0-1 down hence why we didn't make any subs. We are nowhere near Juve or any other TOP European club. Sarri transformed Chelsea in a month and the only thing they are missing is a striker who can score goals. We are going nowhere with Jose in charge. He lowered our expectations so much that a 3-2 win against one of the worst team in the league felt like some achievement for 10% of our fans that they even changed their opinion about Jose. We have a good squad to at least give it a go against any team.
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I don't disagree we could've lost by a lot more but also we could've drawn or won. Less likely but still possible. We were poor in the first half but we made more of it in the second.

If Sarri's so magic then why did they only scrape a draw against us when they were at home? I thought the game was pretty similar to the Chelski game, only Juve are miles better so we had fewer chances.
 
Some people just can't take a dose of reality, all Jose has done is tell the truth. We only reached the knock out stages of the CL last season, and we're a poorer team this season, in a group with Juventus, quarter-finalists last year and finalists the year before. Did anyone really expect us to top the group? All the build up to the match was people praying we didn't get slaughtered 5-0, and we didn't, and yet they're still complaining.
 
JK-27 said:
Some people just can't take a dose of reality, all Jose has done is tell the truth. We only reached the knock out stages of the CL last season, and we're a poorer team this season, in a group with Juventus, quarter-finalists last year and finalists the year before. Did anyone really expect us to top the group? All the build up to the match was people praying we didn't get slaughtered 5-0, and we didn't, and yet they're still complaining.
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It might be a dose of reality but after his constant bigging himself up and the money he has spent. It shouldn't be. The reality is he is done. He has mismanaged the squad, his coaching methods are old hat and for someone who likes a pat on the back, he sure as hell has made sure the spotlight has been firmly pointed at the board.
 
JK-27 said:
Some people just can't take a dose of reality, all Jose has done is tell the truth. We only reached the knock out stages of the CL last season, and we're a poorer team this season, in a group with Juventus, quarter-finalists last year and finalists the year before. Did anyone really expect us to top the group? All the build up to the match was people praying we didn't get slaughtered 5-0, and we didn't, and yet they're still complaining.
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Did anyone expect Spurs to top the group with RM and Dortmund last season? You have to give your team the belief and confidence you can go out there and compete with any team. Settling for 2nd place from the start is not acceptable.
Even if he thinks that what message does that send to the players? That they're crap and nobody should expect anything?
 
Sometimes it’s best to keep the truth to yourself. The only person he’s trying to protect by saying that is himself.
If only he could get his team to defend as well as he does!
 
JK-27 said:
Some people just can't take a dose of reality, all Jose has done is tell the truth. We only reached the knock out stages of the CL last season, and we're a poorer team this season, in a group with Juventus, quarter-finalists last year and finalists the year before. Did anyone really expect us to top the group? All the build up to the match was people praying we didn't get slaughtered 5-0, and we didn't, and yet they're still complaining.
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He's saying we're fighting for 2nd place. We should be comfortably second as a minimum and fighting for the top of the group. Its not a full season, its a six game mini league where you can put pressure on the group favourites by winning your other 4 matches. We should have raised our game last night but we didn't. Like so many other games this season we've limped over the line, sometimes winning sometimes not.

If you think a healthy dose of reality is going to instill any kind of confidence in the team then fair play, I think comments like this is just illustrating further to the players (many of which he bought) that he doesn't trust them and doesn't think they are good enough. But hey if only we had bought another centre back....
 
People are talking like it's impossible to best Juventus.
This is the problem with cult mentality. Whatever the cult leader says, it becomes the new reality.
Spurs, a team we finished above a few months ago, played Juve off the park and were minutes from knocking them out.
Yesterday was a group stage game and we were at home.
There was no excuse for our approach to yesteerday's game and I can't take the people excusing it seriously.
Ajax are currently topping a group that includes Bayern. Fecking Ajax.
No one is saying we must beat Juventus but to give up before kicking a ball is unacceptable.
Give your heads a wobble.
 
JK-27 said:
Some people just can't take a dose of reality, all Jose has done is tell the truth. We only reached the knock out stages of the CL last season, and we're a poorer team this season, in a group with Juventus, quarter-finalists last year and finalists the year before. Did anyone really expect us to top the group? All the build up to the match was people praying we didn't get slaughtered 5-0, and we didn't, and yet they're still complaining.
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Did you just say that Manchester United fans have no reason for complaining as we didn't lose 5-0?
 
Adisa said:
People are talking like it's impossible to best Juventus.
This is the problem with cult mentality. Whatever the cult leader says, it becomes the new reality.
Spurs, a team we finished above a few months ago, played Juve off the park and were minutes from knocking them out.
Yesterday was a group stage game and we were at home.
There was no excuse for our approach to yesteerday's game and I can't take the people excusing it seriously.
Ajax are currently topping a group that includes Bayern. Fecking Ajax.
No one is saying we must beat Juventus but to give up before kicking a ball is unacceptable.
Give your heads a wobble.
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No no, the only way to beat Juventus is to have both Maguire and Alderweireld in the team. Spurs almost knocked them out because they had one of them - but only almost because they didn't have the other.
 
Siorac said:
Did you just say that Manchester United fans have no reason for complaining as we didn't lose 5-0?
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No, these days we're always complaining win, lose, or draw. Go and read the threads on here, pre-match against Chelsea we're being told that the Newcastle game was a stay of execution for Jose and we're going to be found out by a top team and get slaughtered. Post match, having drawn the game after a last minute equaliser, we're being told we should have won, we've dropped points, Lukaku needs a rest.

There is negativity everywhere. The double standards on here are a joke.
 
Juve in the 2nd half couldn't handle our pressure. Pissed me off no end that our default tactics of let them have the ball and camp on the edge of our box played into their hands massively.

You can tell that Jose was more than happy with a 1-0 defeat. Didn't even try and open us up and risk losing 2-0 rather than a 1-1.
 
Defeatist attitude. It's the group stage. Spurs finished top of a group with Real Madrid and Dortmund last year. Literally all that needs to be said.
 
FootyGirl88 said:
It's a shame some of our own fans don't realise this
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Chelsea is a top club determined to challenge for lot of trophies. But I think since Mourinho was our very first Manager in Abrahimovich era and he brought a lot of success, lot of fans (not all of course) like me have valued continued success over adherence to a particular 'attack attack attack' philosophy. This is not to say Chelsea hasnt played attacking football on many a occasions/seasons. It's just that what Mourinho sells is palatable far more for Chelsea as opposed to Manchester United.

Having said all that, I am mad loving the Saariball and long may it continue.
 
Infra-red said:
So, to summarize, everyone pretty much agrees that Juve are far better than us and were always favourites to win the group. We're all allowed to think that and say it, but the manager of the team is not, even after we've just been given a football lesson by the aforementioned team.

Does Sean Dyche also have to pretend that Burnley are in with a shot of winning the Premier League, or is Mourinho the only manager who isn't allowed to speak the truth about things that are self-evident to absolutely everyone everywhere?
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It is a one-off game in our home ground. Nobody is disputing we should beat Juve in a 38-game domestic season. Then how come the likes of Young Boys or Viktoria Plzen can come out fighting in one-off games against Valencia and Real Madrid respectively?
Maybe their coaches just can have a good old moan about not having the likes of Isco or Bale on their books.
I am always amazed at the amount of shit people can come out to defend Mourinho with. Btw that is not aimed directly at You.
 
The manager sets the tone of how a team goes out on the pitch by what he says before the game or at half-time. He is happy to take plaudits when everything goes well, well take the criticism when it doesn't.
 
FutbolFan said:
Chelsea is a top club determined to challenge for lot of trophies. But I think since Mourinho was our very first Manager in Abrahimovich era and he brought a lot of success, lot of fans (not all of course) like me have valued continued success over adherence to a particular 'attack attack attack' philosophy. This is not to say Chelsea hasnt played attacking football on many a occasions/seasons. It's just that what Mourinho sells is palatable far more for Chelsea as opposed to Manchester United.

Having said all that, I am mad loving the Saariball and long may it continue.
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I'd be okay with continued success over an 'attack, attack, attack' philosophy but right now we're getting neither.

And goes without saying that for a club with our resources it really should be both.
 
I don't think anyone would comment on this if any other manager pointed this out. In fact I'm very confident of that because it happens very often including yesterday by Pep saying they're not good enough to win the CL yet and Klopp, Sarri, Poch constantly playing down their own teams chances of titles
 
Smores said:
I don't think anyone would comment on this if any other manager pointed this out. In fact I'm very confident of that because it happens very often including yesterday by Pep saying they're not good enough to win the CL yet and Klopp, Sarri, Poch constantly playing down their own teams chances of titles
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Except I think City players will go out to prove him wrong. He very rarely says things like that so there is a plan behind it. Jose is always chipping away at his players, eventually it will just wear them down. If we are after second place, then send them out fighting against Valencia at home and put us in the driving seat.

In fact if he had done that, they might have gone out last night and enjoyed the game and performed better as the result might not have mattered as much. Now we will likely have to win in Valencia.
 
hasanejaz88 said:
Disappointed not to see white text. The best squad after Barca? :lol:

How many of ours would be in their squad? Well the question is loaded because half our squad is made to look shite because of Mourinho's tactics. You're saying that, a season ago, Juve wouldn't have wanted Martial in their team? Sanchez? Lukaku for Mandzukic? The only area where they are clearly better than us, and most teams in Europe, is defence. But, even then, we have the best 'keeper in the world.

Pogba, Matic and Mata should give a fight to any other in Europe, our attack should be better than many as well, including Juve.
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I'm surprised there is no white text in yours. Martial has warranted nothing yet to claim a starting spot for a European powerhouse like Juventus. I'd take Mandzukic for Lukaku ever single day and so would most of this forum. They have likes of Douglas costa sitting on the bench who'd walk into our lineup. Front 3 of Ronaldo, Manzukic , Dybala is frightening. There is a reason they make it to the CL finals on a regular basis. I agree that Jose tactics are restricting us a lot. But some of our players wouldn't look out of place in a mid table club in PL. Our squad is miles away from being competitive in Europe irrespective of the manager. Matic and Mata wont get into top 3 PL team let alone likes of Barca or Bayern or Real.You're dreaming if you think Martial, Lukaku, Rashford , Sanchez > Ronaldo, Manzu, Dybala, Costa.
 
Smores said:
I don't think anyone would comment on this if any other manager pointed this out. In fact I'm very confident of that because it happens very often including yesterday by Pep saying they're not good enough to win the CL yet and Klopp, Sarri, Poch constantly playing down their own teams chances of titles
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First thing is I think what Mourinho said is different. You would hear those managers play down their cnahces but you won't hear them say they are fighting for something lower. What they say is they might not be good enough to win x but they will fight regardless.
That's very different from saying we are fighting for second .
Second is, those managers get their team to play in a way that defies their words. They go after opponents and always try to dominate their opponents into submission, no matter the odds. The odds might shiif against them but the game plan does not change. "We will always look to get on the ball and we will come after you". Mourinho gets his team to play in a way that exentuates his words. "We have no hope so we play like there is no hope".
Not saying one is right but one is easier to stomach.
 
Adisa said:
First thing is I think what Mourinho said is different. You would hear those managers play down their cnahces but you won't hear them say they are fighting for something lower. What they say is they might not be good enough to win x but they will fight regardless.
That's very different from saying we are fighting for second .
Second is, those managers get their team to play in a way that defies their words. They go after opponents and always try to dominate their opponents into submission, no matter the odds. The odds might shiif against them but the game plan does not change. "We will always look to get on the ball and we will come after you". Mourinho gets his team to play in a way that exentuates his words. "We have no hope so we play like there is no hope".
Not saying one is right but one is easier to stomach.
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None of them are pure English managers so the phrasing of the sentences might be different to what they have in mind. We already know how Jose plays and i don't think anyone expects him to boss games against a big team. He plays percentages and it might work some days and it might not the other day. We could have easily got a draw yesterday and the result would've been more easy to digest. This is who he is and how he won so many honors. I think there is no use in bashing him after every game on why we're conceding possession home or away because that's how he plays.
 
Adisa said:
First thing is I think what Mourinho said is different. You would hear those managers play down their cnahces but you won't hear them say they are fighting for something lower. What they say is they might not be good enough to win x but they will fight regardless.
That's very different from saying we are fighting for second .
Second is, those managers get their team to play in a way that defies their words. They go after opponents and always try to dominate their opponents into submission, no matter the odds. The odds might shiif against them but the game plan does not change. "We will always look to get on the ball and we will come after you". Mourinho gets his team to play in a way that exentuates his words. "We have no hope so we play like there is no hope".
Not saying one is right but one is easier to stomach.
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Clutching at some very thin straws there and the idea that players don't know the difference is a little preposterous no?

So it's okay to say top 4 will be a struggle? Or that you're not favourites? Or not good enough to win yet? But if you say it'll be a battle for 2nd then it's not?

Interesting take. For me the players know exactly what all those mean and they have enough sense to be realistic but motivated despite that, they don't need a grand illusion to trick them otherwise.
 
Smores said:
Clutching at some very thin straws there and the idea that players don't know the difference is a little preposterous no?

So it's okay to say top 4 will be a struggle? Or that you're not favourites? Or not good enough to win yet? But if you say it'll be a battle for 2nd then it's not?

Interesting take. For me the players know exactly what all those mean and they have enough sense to be realistic but motivated despite that, they don't need a grand illusion to trick them otherwise.
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Who's talking about the players? The way you set up is the way you set up.
I'm talking about the fans.
 
Smores said:
Clutching at some very thin straws there and the idea that players don't know the difference is a little preposterous no?

So it's okay to say top 4 will be a struggle? Or that you're not favourites? Or not good enough to win yet? But if you say it'll be a battle for 2nd then it's not?

Interesting take. For me the players know exactly what all those mean and they have enough sense to be realistic but motivated despite that, they don't need a grand illusion to trick them otherwise.
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But it's the CL group stage. I can understand a manager downplaying their chances of winning the league because that takes an entire season of good performances. Hell, even if you say top 4 will be hard, that, too, takes an entire season's worth of work.

Winning a CL group as the second favourite of the group takes two "above par" performances. It's not some wild fancy, some fever dream. I mean, we finished behind the likes of Basel on occasion in this competition. Saying that we were always going to play for second is defeatist to an extreme. It serves to lower the expectations, something Mourinho has been doing ever since he got here.

Does it have an impact on the players? I don't know but it definitely annoys me. Mourinho tries to deflect any blame from himself, tries to make it seem completely acceptable that in his third season we are outclassed on our own ground because apparently you could never expect anything else. Because even if we do find it okay that he utterly failed to build a team that can even compete with these giants, an upset is also ruled out, it was never going to happen, we should just accept defeat.
 
This Juve team is not amazing. It is littered with guys over the hill and the defence was making comical errors in possession that it would never have done when Chiellini and Co were in their prime.

They were beatable and at the very least, the game should have been competitive.

The fact we have posters claiming we should accept we were always fighting for second place and using last nights game to justify that conclusion is horseshit and cultism of the highest order.
 
Siorac said:
No no, the only way to beat Juventus is to have both Maguire and Alderweireld in the team. Spurs almost knocked them out because they had one of them - but only almost because they didn't have the other.
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Absolutely we would be pissing the league if only we had signed alderweireld and alex Sandro and perisic last year. That's the sole reason we suck so much, why can't everyone see this? :(
 
Whilst Juventus are a better team that us - that doesn't give the right to make defensive moves in a game - we are not completely lackluster.

I saw bonnuci l, chiellini & barzagli all go with the ball upfront to take shots - just indicating the amount of freddom they have at playing their football. Only when we are needing a goal do we do anything of the sort. Furthermore everyone is Juventus is playing in their strongest position. Rashford supplying crosses for a target man who can't control the ball - is that really good tactics mate?

Juventus have a better team - we can rightfully complain about needing better players when we have got a good working balance of a team with the players we have

Klloop has turned milner, lovren, Henderson to players that are playing nearly at a top class level because they have a system that fits them & they know what it's done - they needed better players & they have been doing that slowly building their roster.
 
hasanejaz88 said:
Disappointed not to see white text. The best squad after Barca? :lol:

How many of ours would be in their squad? Well the question is loaded because half our squad is made to look shite because of Mourinho's tactics. You're saying that, a season ago, Juve wouldn't have wanted Martial in their team? Sanchez? Lukaku for Mandzukic? The only area where they are clearly better than us, and most teams in Europe, is defence. But, even then, we have the best 'keeper in the world.

Pogba, Matic and Mata should give a fight to any other in Europe, our attack should be better than many as well, including Juve.
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The entire Juve team will walk into our side with ease bar De Gea and Pogba. You have to be extremely top, top red to think otherwise.

Just saying they would have wanted Lukaku for Mandzukic is delusional for me. Mandzukic is twice the player Lukaku is, but he's not a shiny name so he's getting ridiculously. Allegri rates him very highly and that's why he has been playing for them regularly despite the additions they made in the attack. They have Ronaldo, Dybala, Costa, Bernardeschi but Mandzukic is still holding his place easily in the team. He's not playing just because there's no one else to play.

That doesn't mean we don't have a decent squad but the gap is extremely huge between us and Juve. They reached CL final twice in last 3 years.

That said, Mourinho quotes, even if they're real, are terrible and shouldn't have been said that clearly. Should have maintained the fighting spirit in the team. Too much honesty some times isn't helpful.
 
Well he predicted "a difficult season" before a ball had even been kicked. Moyes was ripped to pieces for being no more negative than Mourinho has been during the last few months.

Getting turned over by Juventus is one thing, but the Valencia draw at home is the one that will likely cost us, and that game was very winnable.
 
el3mel said:
The entire Juve team will walk into our side with ease bar De Gea and Pogba. You have to be extremely top, top red to think otherwise.

Just saying they would have wanted Lukaku for Mandzukic is delusional for me. Mandzukic is twice the player Lukaku is, but he's not a shiny name so he's getting ridiculously. Allegri rates him very highly and that's why he has been playing for them regularly despite the additions they made in the attack. They have Ronaldo, Dybala, Costa, Bernardeschi but Mandzukic is still holding his place easily in the team. He's not playing just because there's no one else to play.

That doesn't mean we don't have a decent squad but the gap is extremely huge between us and Juve. They reached CL final twice in last 3 years.

That said, Mourinho quotes, even if they're real, are terrible and shouldn't have been said that clearly. Should have maintained the fighting spirit in the team. Too much honesty some times isn't helpful.
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I would like to know the opinion of people here as to whether they would want Lukaku or Mandzukic when we signed Lukaku in 2016. While Mandzukic has better work rate than Lukaku, Lukaku is a superior goalscorer. That's why I said the comment of how many United players would play in Juve is a loaded question because of how poor our players have been made to look by Mourinho's tactics.

Lukaku played at a much higher level for Belgium at the World Cup, and still does during international breaks. A level you can say higher than Mandzukic. Martial as well played very well for France during times when he wasn't playing for United.

Juve have reached 2 finals in recent years but a lot of credit has to go Allegri for making the tactics work as well. Mourinho simply isn't getting the best out of his players.
 
Patrick220571 said:
Well he predicted "a difficult season" before a ball had even been kicked. Moyes was ripped to pieces for being no more negative than Mourinho has been during the last few months.

Getting turned over by Juventus is one thing, but the Valencia draw at home is the one that will likely cost us, and that game was very winnable.
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We are still favourites to progress. We beat YB at OT, lose in Turin and draw against Valencia in Spain, and we are through assuming Valencia don't win against Juve.
 
hasanejaz88 said:
I would like to know the opinion of people here as to whether they would want Lukaku or Mandzukic when we signed Lukaku in 2016. While Mandzukic has better work rate than Lukaku, Lukaku is a superior goalscorer. That's why I said the comment of how many United players would play in Juve is a loaded question because of how poor our players have been made to look by Mourinho's tactics.

Lukaku played at a much higher level for Belgium at the World Cup, and still does during international breaks. A level you can say higher than Mandzukic. Martial as well played very well for France during times when he wasn't playing for United.

Juve have reached 2 finals in recent years but a lot of credit has to go Allegri for making the tactics work as well. Mourinho simply isn't getting the best out of his players.
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You want to know the opinions of people here ? Well people here didn't want to sign Mane during LVG days as they thought South was his level.

Juve don't want another goal scorer who does nothing else except scoring goals. That was the job of Higuain and now Ronaldo, while Mandzukic partnered both in 3-5-2 and even played as a LW on several occasions when Allegri played 4-1-2-3. He was never thought to be replaced as Allegri rates him very highly.

Juve had a great selection of players in the attack and they could have replaced him with ease if they wanted to. They don't, because he's a top player.

I don't understand that "higher" level thing with Belgium. Mandzuki plays in a team with even less quality and they reached World Cup final you know. As for Martial, last time he played a tournament with France was the Euro and their manager dropped him completely after second match and didn't play for the rest of it.

How's the level in national teams supposed to be higher or lower ? Weird point.
 
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