think we could agree on a principal where noone should be bigger than club but in this case it's kinda flawed principal like you said that manager is always right and should be prioritized over a player. Probably manager would get a pass from the board more often than a player if they saw we are in a good direction and the players stands in a way of the right development but not so much in a opposite case after 2 years of shitshow
Mourinho or Pogba?
- Thread starter VP89
- Start date
-
In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik (@Rood) is joined by CEO Duncan Drasdo and Financial Director Andy Green from the Manchester United Supporters Trust for a special episode on all things behind the scenes at Old Trafford including a brief history of MUST and their aims today, views on INEOS and Sir Jim Ratcliffe so far, and the Old Trafford regeneration.
Having Pogba at your club attracts the best players, I can't say the same about Mourinho at the moment.
Mourinho is no longer one of the best managers in the world. Anyone who thinks so is living in the past.
As a fan of a rival club, I hope you'd keep Mourinho and let Pogba go.
United fans may not like the comparison, but a lot of the cricisim Pogba gets is similar to what Gerrard got before he was transformed under Benitez. Pogba is a level above Gerrard in terms of close control, power and aerial ability, while Gerrard was a better shooter and tackler. Both's biggest problem between the ages of 20-25 has been the lack of positional discipline, and the lack of clearly visible 'where's his best role' - in part because both could/can do so much.
Pogba has more ability than any CM on the planet, and that means genuine match winning ability. He's not a Scholes/Xavi type - he can't control games, and perhaps we'll see the best of him playing alongside Fred. It doesn't seem like he's the type of player who reacts to being consistently poked and prodded by his manager - Gerrard had similar issues with Rafa.
United should build their team around Pogba - he's a once in a generation talent. There's a reason Juventus and Barcelona are interested, and why he was a mainstay in the WC winning French team this summer - the guy is class. He's not shown a world class level at United, however, I don' think this is entirely down to him.
What I hope is that he gets hounded out by Jose and United get Rafinha and Andre Gomes to replace him, followed by a spectacular Jose rant on football haircuts.
United fans may not like the comparison, but a lot of the cricisim Pogba gets is similar to what Gerrard got before he was transformed under Benitez. Pogba is a level above Gerrard in terms of close control, power and aerial ability, while Gerrard was a better shooter and tackler. Both's biggest problem between the ages of 20-25 has been the lack of positional discipline, and the lack of clearly visible 'where's his best role' - in part because both could/can do so much.
Pogba has more ability than any CM on the planet, and that means genuine match winning ability. He's not a Scholes/Xavi type - he can't control games, and perhaps we'll see the best of him playing alongside Fred. It doesn't seem like he's the type of player who reacts to being consistently poked and prodded by his manager - Gerrard had similar issues with Rafa.
United should build their team around Pogba - he's a once in a generation talent. There's a reason Juventus and Barcelona are interested, and why he was a mainstay in the WC winning French team this summer - the guy is class. He's not shown a world class level at United, however, I don' think this is entirely down to him.
What I hope is that he gets hounded out by Jose and United get Rafinha and Andre Gomes to replace him, followed by a spectacular Jose rant on football haircuts.
pogba......up to jose to be a manager and get the best out of him like dechamps just did ... if he comes back as a fraction of what we saw at the world cup , then jose isn't doing his job......pressure all on jose to get that element right , not pogba
Why can't one change votes? The sentence in the OP and the poll are the opposite, which had me fooled. I know its petty but its a bother. Pogba to be kept.
Jose's words are cherry picked by the media and portrayed as negativity. If you listen his entire conference then it doesn't sound that negative, many things he says are practical and you get a feeling that the guy is just being transparent and honest.
Pogba was bashed last season for his disappearance acts during the matches. He was criticized left and right. He found motivation in world cup and performed well. But mind you lot of average players give their extra pound of flesh with blood in world cup. It is once in a lifetime (or at least in 4 years) opportunity, that experience lives with you until death. Hence judging players purely based on world cup form is a risk.
When jose talked about pogba's form in world cup I fully agreed. I didn't see him as jealous person or stubborn. But like a mentor who is trying to keep him on the ground. May be jose needs to be more diplomatic in public. Unfortunately he is not. He is a person who says same thing in public and private. Some players respect that some don't. This is instagram business era and public image is extremely important for players. Jose needs to understand that.
Pogba needs to find motivation playing matches consistently every week in England. Which I am suspecting he is not and his agent and media are exploiting jose's (stubborned) frankness and make him a fall guy.
Pogba was bashed last season for his disappearance acts during the matches. He was criticized left and right. He found motivation in world cup and performed well. But mind you lot of average players give their extra pound of flesh with blood in world cup. It is once in a lifetime (or at least in 4 years) opportunity, that experience lives with you until death. Hence judging players purely based on world cup form is a risk.
When jose talked about pogba's form in world cup I fully agreed. I didn't see him as jealous person or stubborn. But like a mentor who is trying to keep him on the ground. May be jose needs to be more diplomatic in public. Unfortunately he is not. He is a person who says same thing in public and private. Some players respect that some don't. This is instagram business era and public image is extremely important for players. Jose needs to understand that.
Pogba needs to find motivation playing matches consistently every week in England. Which I am suspecting he is not and his agent and media are exploiting jose's (stubborned) frankness and make him a fall guy.
Agreed. I'm not exactly a huge fan of Jose at the minute, but Pogba doesn't strike me as the sort of player who has a burning desire to be the best, to win every tackle, to make a difference in every game, to win at all costs. I just don't see it. When he can be bothered, he's absolutely fantastic and a million miles better than anyone he is up against, but he just doesn't look up for every game in the Premier League which can be a difficult competition at times.
Edit: There's probably stats out there that say otherwise, how much distance he covers, how many chances he makes, but that's just my opinion rather than a bulletproof statement. It's obvious to most of us he could be giving more every week.
I want to see what a dif manager can do with Pogba.
Come to think of it, if it was an either/or situation, if I had to choose between two extremes, I'd much sooner lean towards manager power instead of player power. One thing I can't stand is players thinking they are bigger than the club and holding clubs for ransom.
I'd change my vote to Mourinho but obviously the votes can't be changed.
I'd change my vote to Mourinho but obviously the votes can't be changed.
Pogba's a cup player, in a manner of speaking. We need more than that from him.
This poll really is a disgrace and it shows the mentality of the caf lately.
Supporting a player that can't give a shit about the club and that played the fans and the club with the 'Manchester is my home' shit.
We are like the pathetic boyfriend clinging into the girlfriend that don't want to be with us anymore. Ready to drop everything for her...
The simple fact that Pogba said during the world cup that he's gonna tone down social media to focus on the footballing side shows where the problem lies in his stint with us, and shows the respect he has (doesn't) for the club.
Supporting a player that can't give a shit about the club and that played the fans and the club with the 'Manchester is my home' shit.
We are like the pathetic boyfriend clinging into the girlfriend that don't want to be with us anymore. Ready to drop everything for her...
The simple fact that Pogba said during the world cup that he's gonna tone down social media to focus on the footballing side shows where the problem lies in his stint with us, and shows the respect he has (doesn't) for the club.
One thing I hate about Jose is that he thinks he can do no wrong. Any bad result and he immediately blames the players. Even a friendly with kids playing, he has to bash them in the press after the game. With Pogba, the man wins the world cup but instead of praising him, Jose goes about trying to defend himself for not getting the best out of Pogba. I'm sick of his negative bullshit in the press.
This is the kind of nonsense SAF never stood for and we all know how that worked out. You have to play the long game.
Pogba is immensely talented but can best be described as “hit and miss” last season. I’m not having that this is down to Jose playing him out of position. I saw no distinguishable difference between Pogba’s position for Utd and Pogba’s position for France.
One of my lasting memories of the World Cup is Pogba charging back into his own penalty area and beatjng Fellaini to a header before winning the loose ball in midfield - when do we see that kind of application and discipline at Utd?
I think the truth is that Pogba thinks he is above Utd and above his teammates. When he signed I imagine he was sold a great dream about spending big to rival City and the reality has sunk in. With the Glazers seemingly happy only to put a small percentage of our revenues into transfers we’re accepting the position of “Arsenal”
Pogba is immensely talented but can best be described as “hit and miss” last season. I’m not having that this is down to Jose playing him out of position. I saw no distinguishable difference between Pogba’s position for Utd and Pogba’s position for France.
One of my lasting memories of the World Cup is Pogba charging back into his own penalty area and beatjng Fellaini to a header before winning the loose ball in midfield - when do we see that kind of application and discipline at Utd?
I think the truth is that Pogba thinks he is above Utd and above his teammates. When he signed I imagine he was sold a great dream about spending big to rival City and the reality has sunk in. With the Glazers seemingly happy only to put a small percentage of our revenues into transfers we’re accepting the position of “Arsenal”
Jose told us he wanted to build a legacy. I don’t think Pogba is the one that’s lying to us to be honest.
We are like the boyfriend that won’t stop putting his girlfriend down and then wondering why she’s entertaining men that give her the required attention!
Please tell me who wasn’t hit and miss last season. It’s all good pointing to Pogba but unless he’s the worst out of a good bunch. I don’t get the argument.
I hope it’s the hate for Mourinho rather than the love of Pogba that’s making this poll so one sided. The demeanour and play from Pogba has been like that of a self indulgent child throughout his time here.
We went out on a limb to sign him and we’ve barely seen the best of him in 2 years. Mourinho is wearing increasingly thin on me but I’d even go as far as to side with Moyes or LVG over some plonker with daft hair who won’t give his best for the club, who just so happens to be paid an enormous amount of money and was formally the most expensive player in the world.
We went out on a limb to sign him and we’ve barely seen the best of him in 2 years. Mourinho is wearing increasingly thin on me but I’d even go as far as to side with Moyes or LVG over some plonker with daft hair who won’t give his best for the club, who just so happens to be paid an enormous amount of money and was formally the most expensive player in the world.
@SillyUsername I think it's fairly obvious that's the case. Many on here are fed up with mourinho's moaning and the way he appears to be treating the players.
Also don't think many were that impressed with pogba last year but we know w at he can do with the right manager and playing style.
Also don't think many were that impressed with pogba last year but we know w at he can do with the right manager and playing style.
But that is what annoys people, whether Pogba likes the manager or his methods is not the point. The CLUB pays Pogba to give 100% at all times. I think Pogba has a questionable (before anyone slates me, I said questionable which means the jury is out) attitude. I’m being put off Pogba by the day.
I really hope he proves me wrong and turns into the great player for us that we know he can be, I’m just not sure he will. I reckon he would ditch us in a flash if Barca or RM showed genuine interest.
Bigger and better have left. If the player is'nt happy then it's goodbye.
The Pogba situation, the longer it goes on, reminds of the Coutinho situation with Liverpool, where the player upset the preseason build up and the wheels start to fall off the wagon before the season gets under way. Terrible timing in both cases!
So imv his wish to leave the club has no longer anything to do with the manager, he's in the claws of Barca and we should have given this whole thing top priority and made sure a deal was done with Barca in good time before this window closes.
A deal involving money + Mina and Rakitic would have sufficed for the loss of Pogba and could have left us with a decent chance to take city to the wire. Now we risk having a Pogba around the place who looks like he's already started throwing his toys about.
So imv his wish to leave the club has no longer anything to do with the manager, he's in the claws of Barca and we should have given this whole thing top priority and made sure a deal was done with Barca in good time before this window closes.
A deal involving money + Mina and Rakitic would have sufficed for the loss of Pogba and could have left us with a decent chance to take city to the wire. Now we risk having a Pogba around the place who looks like he's already started throwing his toys about.
None of our other players are coming out and demanding a 200K pay rise whilst flirting with another club.
We spent a club record fee on Pogba and Jose gave him the captains armband at times last year. We should expect high standard from him
There's no credible source(afaik) that indicates Pogba wants to leave.
Pogba & Martial >>>>>>>>Mourinho
They are both on the up whereas he looks past his best. Just want the transfer window to end without any damage done
They are both on the up whereas he looks past his best. Just want the transfer window to end without any damage done
Anyone who picks Mourinho is not a United supporter.
Second best midfielder in the world with his best years ahead of him or an outdated cantankerous warmonger who won't be here in 9 months?
Second best midfielder in the world with his best years ahead of him or an outdated cantankerous warmonger who won't be here in 9 months?
I don’t get what the problem with him colouring his hair or dancing on social media has to do with affecting his ability to play football. It’s stupid people that think that is an issue. It’s not like it’s causing him to miss training or not see a pass in the game because he is busy taking a selfie. Some of the nonsense we saw from fans mid season complaining about Lingard and him and the use of social media was embarrassing.
Jose’s only issue was that he didn’t want videos taken in the locker room I beleieve I read mid season incase any tactical info leaked out.
The reason people support him over Jose is that people can see what quality he has and what he could be and realise that is not going to be easy to replace, where in the manager many beleieve has no future here anyway so if it’s a case of losing one of the best talents in the world or Jose who really hasn’t shown anything all that special here I can see why Pogba would easily be winning this vote.
We by the way don’t know what is in Pogbas thoughts, maybe he does love the club, but can’t stand Jose any longer, wouldn’t be the first player. Maybe he looks around and thinks there is no chance of winning any important titles any time soon. Maybe there is no problem at all and it’s just Raiola stirring up rubbish as doesn’t he work for free and only takes money from percentages of transfer fees. Maybe fancies getting himself a boat or something.
@The_Order summmed it up in his post above this, more directly. Although possibly/hopefully gone in 9 months.
Last edited:
Hence the poll. You could easily argue "who is annoying you the most at the moment" and hence why people are voting to keep Pogba as Jose's pissing more people off and questioning his method and attitude. Jose is one man upsetting a lot of people.
Thanks man! Appreciate it!
I am actually NOT picking Pogba, who's an absolute spoilt player. Get mad and give your best!
Inconsistent, hiding, has 1 good match in 10.
Sits, cries, waits for someone to "allow" him to play his game.
Get mad and prove your status, be the best, give your best. You have not proven anything besides having technical abilities.
There are lots of players who have 1/2 of his abilities and are 2 times useful for their teams.
Neither but I'm pretty certain Jose will be gone before Pogba. This thing smells like Real and Chelsea all over again and if the results start to follow, he could be history. It's said already but everything about Jose looks like he wants out....Conte looked exactly the same.
Poll should be changed to Mourinho or Pogba, De Gea, Martial and attacking football. Should be an easy decision.
I'd have preferred for Mourinho to have a big 'disagreement' with the board to the point of no return, so we don't have to suffer several defeats before the inevitable. Changing manager just before or during the season might mean short-term problems, but also would be rejuvenating the squad. I can see Sanchez, Fred, Pereira, Rashford, Lingard, Lukaku and even Pogba/Martial thrive in collective high pressure football.
Losing disillusioned De Gea, Pogba and Martial during this or the next transfer window would feck us up for many years to come. I think De Gea would've already signed if we were playing well and showed potential of greatness, with a manager the board is believing in. If Pogba and Martial leave and we keep serving up this kind of football aiming for fourth, I can't see him renewing. I see him leaving on a cheap next Summer to wherever he has a bigger opportunity at winning.
I'd have preferred for Mourinho to have a big 'disagreement' with the board to the point of no return, so we don't have to suffer several defeats before the inevitable. Changing manager just before or during the season might mean short-term problems, but also would be rejuvenating the squad. I can see Sanchez, Fred, Pereira, Rashford, Lingard, Lukaku and even Pogba/Martial thrive in collective high pressure football.
Losing disillusioned De Gea, Pogba and Martial during this or the next transfer window would feck us up for many years to come. I think De Gea would've already signed if we were playing well and showed potential of greatness, with a manager the board is believing in. If Pogba and Martial leave and we keep serving up this kind of football aiming for fourth, I can't see him renewing. I see him leaving on a cheap next Summer to wherever he has a bigger opportunity at winning.
Last edited:
I don’t particularly like either, both are huge egos and seemingly fame/money driven.
Both of them are clouds that will hang over our clubs until they’re gone - Mou because he’s a miserable tosser and Pogba because he’s either underperforming or has his fat bastard agent in his ear.
Pogba wins just on the basis that he’s yet to peak whereas Mou is resolutely past his.
If we lost both I wouldn’t be hugely disappointed as long as we got a strong midfield replacement. Pogba has been wildly inconsistent over the past two years and that can not be laid solely at the managers door.
Both of them are clouds that will hang over our clubs until they’re gone - Mou because he’s a miserable tosser and Pogba because he’s either underperforming or has his fat bastard agent in his ear.
Pogba wins just on the basis that he’s yet to peak whereas Mou is resolutely past his.
If we lost both I wouldn’t be hugely disappointed as long as we got a strong midfield replacement. Pogba has been wildly inconsistent over the past two years and that can not be laid solely at the managers door.
Last edited:
I'm hoping that Mourinho's words about Pogba at the World Cup will spur him on to perform regularly. If he stays, which we have to assume since we won't give him away without a replacement in today or tomorrow, I think we will see a different Pogba. Let's just see how long it lasts, Fred can be key to make us work even if we play like shit.
Calling people stupid ?
First of all, i'm not the one saying that. he gave an interview saying that he will get out of social media for the world cup because he only wants to focus on the football. HE DID.
Second, if that was a non issue. Why do you think Sir Alex had problems with Beckham ?
Third, this next point is just gonna show you how much people bend their thinking to suit their agenda. Arsenal players have been called the selfie generation. Ozil was killed in here multiple times because of his social media activities when he wasn't producing. now, when it's one of ours, the tune is changing.
I have no position on the matter. does it influence his play or not ? i don't think it does directly. see Lingard for example. But i think that it does indirectly. when you don't perform, the media's gonna be on your back, they'll use everything to shot you down and all that pressure from the media is gonna influence your play, motivation, mood ....
Second best midfielder in the world when he can be arsed who also doesn’t want to be here.
What are you 12 ?
This is some deluded shit. he is nowhere near the second midfielder in the premier league, let alone the world!
Th blame is understandably on Jose but also the board. Jose as he picks fights like a petulant child and clearly treats his favourites like the do no wrong. You think the players don't get irritated by that?
If we matched Pogbas ambition he wouldn't want to leave. Out summer has been a disgrace. Pogba wants to win things. Our board don't.
Pogba ain't the problem, we are. If he leaves we shouldn't be blaming Pogba we should be blaming the board. Driving out our best most talented outfield player in two years would be quite the achievement
Mourinho was spot on with that comment after the World Cup and, unusually for him, it was fit the type of player dig that was fit for public consumption and might actually serve to motivate.
If Pogba took offence to that comment it says more about him than Mou. Tbh though that story reads like tabloid bollocks.
Nothing to do with hate on my part. Pogba is simply more valuable to the club than Mourinho. He'd be a lot harder to replace.
I can't envisage us having either to be honest.
Both Pogba & Martial want out, because of Mourinho, they both leave, and then after a disasterous run of form Mourinho gets sacked...!!
Its a fecking shambles..!!
Both Pogba & Martial want out, because of Mourinho, they both leave, and then after a disasterous run of form Mourinho gets sacked...!!
Its a fecking shambles..!!
You're welcome,
Just do we're clear, we're talking about Pogba, recent world cup winner who bossed the final and became the first premier league player to score in a world cup final?
That player?
Funny how pretty much every united player at the tournament shone under different managers and direction but look lost and bereft of ideas under the petulant one.
Hang on to your false prophets if you like, but for me, he has to go.
He currently threatens to cost us Martial and Pogba and goodness knows how many other players who would have joined but for his toxic presence.