I've been thinking about this. could be the start of a vicious cycle... unless we win a lot
Mourinho Post Match Comments
- Thread starter bosnian_red
- Start date
-
In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik (@Rood) is joined by CEO Duncan Drasdo and Financial Director Andy Green from the Manchester United Supporters Trust for a special episode on all things behind the scenes at Old Trafford including a brief history of MUST and their aims today, views on INEOS and Sir Jim Ratcliffe so far, and the Old Trafford regeneration.
I've been thinking about this. could be the start of a vicious cycle... unless we win a lot
He did say in the immediate post match interview in the tunnel that he was his fault.
It was a poor selection, that's about the only fault I can find with Mourinho. Lingard and Mkhitaryan shouldn't have started.
Not overly irritated about the result though, as this is still a work in progress. Players are learning how to play with each other under a new system. It takes time, but already we're far better to watch than last season. People say we were negative, but we went for it in that second half. It was end to end. It's just very difficult to play against a Pep team which controls the ball for such long periods of time. The team is fine, and I think we'll see a run of consecutive wins now.
Not overly irritated about the result though, as this is still a work in progress. Players are learning how to play with each other under a new system. It takes time, but already we're far better to watch than last season. People say we were negative, but we went for it in that second half. It was end to end. It's just very difficult to play against a Pep team which controls the ball for such long periods of time. The team is fine, and I think we'll see a run of consecutive wins now.
I agree with most of what Mourinho has said and if any players get upset by it they're mental midgets. I do think we need to change our system to a 4-3-3 with one holding CM to get the best out of Pogba so while the current system allows us one more attacking player it's also a smaller case of square pegs in round holes. Rooney is already way past his best and won't be featuring much in the next few seasons so it's time to build around the excellent core of young players we have like Martial/Pogba/Shaw/Bailly/Rashford etc
What on earth is this about?
You're talking about sacking Mourinho off the back of yesterday and his comments?
Sound like a fair weather fan.
These are the sort of things that can rattle a squad. Are we there already? Watch this space.
Is it their fault? Is it my fault? It's my fault because I'm the manager and it's always my fault because it's always my choice."
Positives to take from the second half
"The positives I take are the spirit of the group and the mentality to play the second half in the way we played it, taking enormous risks against a team that was defending and was waiting for a chance to counter-attack."omehow
Somehow the Pep lovers in the media seemed to have ignored this.Selective amnesia=lazy journalism
If people think the likes of Lingard and Mkhy are going to drop their heads because they were rightfully slated then they shouldn't be at Manchester United.
Spot on. They know they were very fragile but given the clamour even on this forum for Miki folks got the selection they wanted. I would have preferred to see Martial start on the left with his pace, and if anything Lingaard on the right which sems to suit him better.
Take it on the chin and come back even stronger
This is exactly what I'm hoping will happen. It's what we need to do imo.
Behave yourself and learn to know context before you start your wild generalisations. We were discussing the game and one poster asked if we should sack him, to which I responded that I didn't think we should.
Yeah. Whether Mourinho criticized the players in public or not, the players know when they truly play badly. They're professional, criticism is part of their jobs.
Mourinho got it wrong. Martial should have started and probably Rashford or Mata as well. That said, the anti Mourinho crowd have turned up far earlier than I suspected.
Pep was similarly open in his post-match press conference. Any good manager will know about this anyways, there's no reason to be secretive about the basic fundamentals of your style of playing.
I don't think there was much wrong in what he said. It's pretty true and I don't think it's even a particularly negative message as he is essentially saying our problem was due to how some individuals played on the day rather than our players being nowhere near as good as City's.
I'm sure Jose will step out of line before the season is done, probably more than once, but I don't think he has this time.
I'm sure Jose will step out of line before the season is done, probably more than once, but I don't think he has this time.
I think Mou was referring to Blind, Micky and maybe Lingaard.
There's a difference between not playing the 'first station' ball and playing hoof ball. Predictable short passes in your own half are suicidal against a high press, whereas a longer pass aimed towards players with a physical advantage gives you an easy and affective out against the press. It's exactly how LVG beat Liverpool last year and nobody complained then. Winning a game of football means using all of your resources and finding a way to gain superiority with the players you have. I expect Mhkitaryan and Lingard were supposed to be reading the balls into Zlatan / Pogba / Fellaini and getting involved from there, and that's why the plan fell apart in the first half. Hell, it was so effective in the second half that City took off their only striker to cope with it. Play that way from the start and we would have been in better shape, I can't see Pep taking off Iheanacho after 15 minutes of the first half.
People complained about LVGs plodding short man to next man football, and then complain when we go more direct. What exactly do you want, Barca 2010?
People complained about LVGs plodding short man to next man football, and then complain when we go more direct. What exactly do you want, Barca 2010?
I'd start to worry if he doesn't take Rooney off soon and sets us up with a 4-3-3, it just seems so obvious that's the route to go. That's just my opinion though.
can anyone recollect the last time Mou lost a match and it wasn't the referees fault?
Same question for Ferguson. He did it all the time to deflect attention from the players, and got fined plenty of times for it. I don't care what Jose says to the media, I'm sure he talks to the players in person rather than through the papers.
Nope. Towards the end of his Chelsea spell last season he was just embarrassing in that regard.
City outclassed United on Saturday in the first half, tactically. I'm absolutely shocked that Mourinho didn't start with a 3 man midfield given that De Bruyne and Silva were always going to play centrally and having them both operating behind Pogba/Fellaini (neither of whom are inherently defensive) and in front of the defence was always going to cause severe problems - not just for United, but for any team in the world. I think City's main problem was the lack of finishing quality from the players around those two - Iheanacho, Sterling and Nolito made a lot of silly mistakes in the counter attack that prevented a higher score. Regardless, the quality of Pep's system in this game was too much to bare for United and has been for every other team so far this season.
The positives for United was the eventual switch to a 3 man midfield in which Herrera was doing the tidying up and offering another pass option in the areas where United were previously struggling to build up play - alleviating the pressure from City's press substantially. He scored the goal but I'm not sure it was the game for Ibrahimovic but certainly, it wasn't the game for BOTH him and Rooney. I believe United needed a higher work rate and one extra ball player.. perhaps Herrera - Fellaini - Pogba - Mata - Ibrahimovic - Rashford would have been a more adept front 6. Lessons will be learned, I'm sure.
I think Guardiola will win this war.. but it's an intriguing one to watch between two great managers.
He should have made the change first half.Pep took about 7 minutes in the second half to make a change.
Yep, that is what i am tihnking. Many coaches do it, Klopp is good at it, too. I still think it is a bit bad form, lack of class. Funniest thing is that the media still seem to fall for it.
Are people actually crying over his comments about the ref? Feck me, did anyone actually watch Fergies interviews? You shit the refs up on the big stage and next time they're more inclined to side with your team...
You are right!
Plus, the ref did not give us TWO penalties. Two real penalties. Why shouldn't Jose complain about this?
Agree. Agree. I totally agree.
I also think Mourinho said all the right things after the game. If a manager concedes he was at fault every time after a defeat then:
- Some players won't up their game knowing that the manager won't put the blame so much on them if they underperform.
- Players will become hesitant to follow instructions because their manager could be wrong and at fault already before the game begins.
In case some people missed it, he said this also
"Look, honestly, I had two or three players in the first half who, if the game was played now and I know what is going to happen, then I wouldn't play them. But this is football and sometimes players, they disappoint managers, and sometimes players, they give us great surprises. I thought because of the characteristics of the game we could hurt them playing with some individuals with some qualities, they didn't give what I want. Is it their fault? Is it my fault? It's my fault because I'm the manager and it's always my fault because it's always my choice."
"Look, honestly, I had two or three players in the first half who, if the game was played now and I know what is going to happen, then I wouldn't play them. But this is football and sometimes players, they disappoint managers, and sometimes players, they give us great surprises. I thought because of the characteristics of the game we could hurt them playing with some individuals with some qualities, they didn't give what I want. Is it their fault? Is it my fault? It's my fault because I'm the manager and it's always my fault because it's always my choice."
Two penalties? When did that happen?
Im a little bit in two minds on this one. I absolutely do see what people are saying about players being too coddled and how they should be able to take a bit of criticism and should also know when they havent played well anyway. This is my instinctive reaction in these kinds of situations too. But I did find his comments a little tactless. SAF's wasnt the only way of doing things, but he always used to advocate absolute loyalty in public, criticism in private, and I must say the way comments in the media are managed these days generally accentuates the negativity around these comments. Yes, in an ideal world players would be tough, thick skinned, determined, but this isnt an ideal world, and often they arent. Its only because of what happened at Chelsea, but watching his post match comments set off some alarm bells. Not full on, evacuate-the-building-the-world-is-coming-to-an-end alarm bells, but preliminary, there-could-be-an-issue-this-situation-needs-to-be-monitored alarm bells. I just think it was a bit unnecessarily personal and public and for all its admirable candour, I wonder whether there arent better ways of handling it.
Its like what he said about Lingard and Miki. Basically, I would have taken them off after 20 minutes but it would have knocked their confidence. I can see the logic in that, but isnt that negated the minute you come out and say that to the press? His comments suggested we basically carried him for 25 minutes after he had decided he had to come off to protect his confidence, which has now been knocked now anyway. If we had taken him off earlier at least we would have responded to our problems quicker, who knows how the game might have panned out differently.
I actually do see, as I said, the logic for keeping him on for the whole half, but for me it would have been better to deflect attention away from his performance in that half, or for him to take full responsibility for it and absolve Miki - at least in public. And then criticise him privately.
Im sure this is all much ado about nothing and we will bounce back from this. But yeah, I did find his comments a little odd.
Its like what he said about Lingard and Miki. Basically, I would have taken them off after 20 minutes but it would have knocked their confidence. I can see the logic in that, but isnt that negated the minute you come out and say that to the press? His comments suggested we basically carried him for 25 minutes after he had decided he had to come off to protect his confidence, which has now been knocked now anyway. If we had taken him off earlier at least we would have responded to our problems quicker, who knows how the game might have panned out differently.
I actually do see, as I said, the logic for keeping him on for the whole half, but for me it would have been better to deflect attention away from his performance in that half, or for him to take full responsibility for it and absolve Miki - at least in public. And then criticise him privately.
Im sure this is all much ado about nothing and we will bounce back from this. But yeah, I did find his comments a little odd.
Yes. Thing is that he has a habit of doing it lately and the last time he did it too often, his team burnt him.
Also, jesse and miki might have been bad but then it is understandable. Jose can spout whatever shit he wants like how players don't listen to him or perform as he liked. Well, in those 2 cases, shouldn't he have known that it would more likely to happen since well they had almost no match fitness to start? You could see how rusty they were.
You are a top manager and you couldn't see it ahead or anticipate ahead? Even if you do, come out of public and burn them ?
Very weird. I find him very insecure sometimes especially with pep. They may pretend and say in public it is not about them. But, I think both of them know it is not exactly true.
The hey have been laying in wait while cursing our last 5 wins.
Joking aside, I saw enough during that game to convince me that were going to be fine. His adjustments and tactics switch were spot on in order to stem the tide and turn the tables. People like to focus on the negatives and forget everything else.
In Summary bad starting selection and some players did not do as they were specifically told not to do. He made the neccessay corrections and was a completely different game. Yes City had some counter attacks bit that is to be expected when were pushing hard to get back in the game. We should have had a penalty and their keeper should have been off also a couple of tap ins went begging. Ironically for all the eulogising about pep. Their goal was from a long ball. and the other was flukey as feck. On another day without the starting lineup mistake it would ne a different story. Not concerned in the slightest. Only thing annoying me is the persistence with Rooney. I have always said no matter what you think of him, isn't it time to give others a chance? My biggest gripe was that other players would miss out game time due to either him playing in 3 different positions so we can shoe horn him in or due to the fact the system has to cater for him and thus they can't play in their optimum system/position.
This is exactly what's happening now bit is more pronounced against the technically better teams. Players like Mkhitaryan need the game time and get thrown to the lion's when they suffer from the lack of it. He gets some game time and looks understandably out of sorts and then you get all the idiots proclaiming he's not good enough etc after his first fecking start of the season & 45mins at that!
I was thinking more about criticizing the ref and the players (practically naming them.) That hasn't ended well for Jose in the past.
Graham Poll agrees with Jose on the Bravo incident.
Mourinho was right on Bravo "penalty" incident
Graham Poll has come out in support of Mourinho following the Manchester derby.
The United boss criticised Mark Clattenburg for noth awarding a penalty when Rooney was felled by Bravo.
Poll told the Daily Mail:
Jose Mourinho was absolutely right to be critical of referee Mark Clattenburg’s failure to award Manchester United a penalty after Claudio Bravo flew studs-first into Wayne Rooney.
Clattenburg felt the City keeper had played the ball but he knows that whenever a player dives into a challenge with both feet off the ground, out of control, a foul must be given.
If the ball is played cleanly then a yellow card is issued but if the opponent is caught, solely or as well as the ball, a red card should be shown.
However, Poll doesn’t think the Otamendi “handball” deserved a spot kick.
He added:
“I don’t agree with Mourinho regarding the other penalty appeal when Antonio Valencia’s cross hit Nicolas Otamendi’s arm.
“It has been pleasing to see referees this season use more judgment on handball incidents rather than award a penalty every time the ball hits an arm.”
Mourinho was right on Bravo "penalty" incident
Graham Poll has come out in support of Mourinho following the Manchester derby.
The United boss criticised Mark Clattenburg for noth awarding a penalty when Rooney was felled by Bravo.
Poll told the Daily Mail:
Jose Mourinho was absolutely right to be critical of referee Mark Clattenburg’s failure to award Manchester United a penalty after Claudio Bravo flew studs-first into Wayne Rooney.
Clattenburg felt the City keeper had played the ball but he knows that whenever a player dives into a challenge with both feet off the ground, out of control, a foul must be given.
If the ball is played cleanly then a yellow card is issued but if the opponent is caught, solely or as well as the ball, a red card should be shown.
However, Poll doesn’t think the Otamendi “handball” deserved a spot kick.
He added:
“I don’t agree with Mourinho regarding the other penalty appeal when Antonio Valencia’s cross hit Nicolas Otamendi’s arm.
“It has been pleasing to see referees this season use more judgment on handball incidents rather than award a penalty every time the ball hits an arm.”
Not really happy with mourinhos comments in the wake of this game . He's basically told miki and lingard that they can't handle the pressure of a big game. No need to put that out in public.
Well, he also admitted that he made a mistake. Time to move on, it happens. Important is that we learnt our lesson now. The problem was also that we didnt score in the 2nd half, which we should have
To be fair, Mourinho picked the team. It was a strange pick, and it backfired. He should take as much of the blame as the players who failed to carry out his instructions.
True but it's easier said than done during a game to follow instructions of the coach, especially when the other team isn't allowing you much room to follow said instruction. It's up to the manager to notice it isn't working for whatever reason and make the changes quickly. It seemed like Lindgard and Mhiki weren't helping their teammates enough for the 2nd station. They were supposed to be available to receive the ball from the centre backs who were forbidden from passing between themselves.
Herrera comments seem good. I think he will be given a chance now maybe in a 4-3-3