Mourinho tells Paul Pogba he'll never captain Manchester United again

groovyalbert said:
Sadly for Jose - fortunately for us - there is absolutely no options available to justify dropping Pogba.

We’re in a weird situation where losing a CM would actually be more detemental than losing our manager.
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To me, it looks more like a situation where you have to choose from either sacrifice an injured horse (Mou) and stay with a good looking one that just doesn't run at 100% in races, you should probably get rid of both.

I don't get why the idea of selling Pogba to recoup the money invested and try again building around another player is so wrong, it seems people are trying to keep Pogba because "once you make two gambles, one of them has to actually pay off", instead of recognising an error and move on to the next stage minimizing the damage.

At which point enogh is enough with Pogba?. Because sacking Mou but keeping Pog right now seems like handing him the keys of Old Trafford to do or undo at his liking, you can argue maybe that's what this club needs and it could work, but a player has to earn that right on the pitch with a United shirt, so far Pogba hasn't earned the captain armband, let alone the key to de stadium.
 
Klopper76 said:
It'll be interesting to see if Pogba's in your team on Saturday.

Pogba might not be fully motivated to play for Mourinho which would give the latter a good reason to not play him, but dropping him fuels the negativity surrounding them and might make things worse.
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And playing him just shows how deep in the brown stuff we are when the manager and one of our best players are clearly at war and he might not even get dropped.
 
Ishdalar said:
To me, it looks more like a situation where you have to choose from either sacrifice an injured horse (Mou) and stay with a good looking one that just doesn't run at 100% in races, you should probably get rid of both.

I don't get why the idea of selling Pogba to recoup the money invested and try again building around another player is so wrong, it seems people are trying to keep Pogba because "once you make two gambles, one of them has to actually pay off", instead of recognising an error and move on to the next stage minimizing the damage.

At which point enogh is enough with Pogba?. Because sacking Mou but keeping Pog right now seems like handing him the keys of Old Trafford to do or undo at his liking, you can argue maybe that's what this club needs and it could work, but a player has to earn that right on the pitch with a United shirt, so far Pogba hasn't earned the captain armband, let alone the key to de stadium.
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Excellent post.
 
Where does this end? The Glazers tell Woodward they can't sanction any major purchases. So Woodward tells Mourinho that he can't buy any players. So Mourinho tells Pogba he can't captain the club again. So Pogba tells his mum she can't buy any more hair dye. So his mum tells the Glazers to go feck themselves. So the Glazers pull the plug on Utd and we merge with City.
 
Not sure which one of the many threads to post this in (maybe they should be tidied up a bit) but on the Sky Sports app they have a video of Pogba arriving on the training pitch and his and Jose’s interaction is frosty as hell. I mean if I didn’t believe any of the stuff I’d read/heard previously, to me that was not body language of two people that don’t have a problem with each other.
 
You can't have a manager who constantly mouth offs and disrespect the club, players and talks up himself constantly in the press. Then expect none of the players to come out and copy him.
 
Ishdalar said:
To me, it looks more like a situation where you have to choose from either sacrifice an injured horse (Mou) and stay with a good looking one that just doesn't run at 100% in races, you should probably get rid of both.

I don't get why the idea of selling Pogba to recoup the money invested and try again building around another player is so wrong, it seems people are trying to keep Pogba because "once you make two gambles, one of them has to actually pay off", instead of recognising an error and move on to the next stage minimizing the damage.

At which point enogh is enough with Pogba?. Because sacking Mou but keeping Pog right now seems like handing him the keys of Old Trafford to do or undo at his liking, you can argue maybe that's what this club needs and it could work, but a player has to earn that right on the pitch with a United shirt, so far Pogba hasn't earned the captain armband, let alone the key to de stadium.
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Cassidy said:
He dropped Pogba last season vs Sevilla, don't be so sure he won't do it again.
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Dropping him against Sevilla didn’t exactly go to plan though, did it... also, at that point we McT doing a job for Jose, but he’s clearly nowhere near Utd quality.

Say it quietly, but this none sense aside, Pogba has been our best player this season after Shaw. Yes, there have been games where his form has dipped. But that’s been the case with everyone. Footballing quality wise, we have bigger individual problems in Sanchez, Lukaku, our CBs, than Pogba.

For better or for worse, the ball is in Pogba’s court right now and he knows it. Last season’s treatment by Jose clearly stung him and he’s getting back at the manager. I’d feel bad for Jose and bemoan player power if it weren’t the case that Jose is fundamentally getting a taste of his own medicine re respect and treatment. He absolutely set the precedent for this.

For me, this doesn’t look like ending well right now. There’s no way Jose has the whole support of the squad, and if it comes down to replacing a manager or core sections of the squad, it’s not hard to see which will be the more attractive option for the board.
 
I agree with some others on here. I do think that getting rid of Mourinho and keeping Pogba will make Pogba feel like he has some sort of control. Another manager could come in, Pogba could replicate his current inconsistent form and get dropped. He would likely start coming out with the same things again of how the team should do this and that and hint that the manager is the problem.

I wouldn't be totally against the idea of selling Pogba if Mourinho was to leave. Dont get me wrong, I do think he is a great player when on form but I'd hate to see history repeat itself at the club.
 
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groovyalbert said:
Dropping him against Sevilla didn’t exactly go to plan though, did it... also, at that point we McT doing a job for Jose, but he’s clearly nowhere near Utd quality.

Say it quietly, but this none sense aside, Pogba has been our best player this season after Shaw. Yes, there have been games where his form has dipped. But that’s been the case with everyone. Footballing quality wise, we have bigger individual problems in Sanchez, Lukaku, our CBs, than Pogba.

For better or for worse, the ball is in Pogba’s court right now and he knows it. Last season’s treatment by Jose clearly stung him and he’s getting back at the manager. I’d feel bad for Jose and bemoan player power if it weren’t the case that Jose is fundamentally getting a taste of his own medicine re respect and treatment. He absolutely set the precedent for this.

For me, this doesn’t look like ending well right now. There’s no way Jose has the whole support of the squad, and if it comes down to replacing a manager or core sections of the squad, it’s not hard to see which will be the more attractive option for the board.
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I can see him dropping him and playing Fellaini in midfield and possibly Fred in his place to prove a point if this continues.
 
If you're the other players/staff you surely cant believe your eyes that this shit is happening
 
I'd lose the manager first and then maybe the players later. This open beef being caught on cameras is unacceptable.
 
groovyalbert said:
Dropping him against Sevilla didn’t exactly go to plan though, did it... also, at that point we McT doing a job for Jose, but he’s clearly nowhere near Utd quality.

Say it quietly, but this none sense aside, Pogba has been our best player this season after Shaw. Yes, there have been games where his form has dipped. But that’s been the case with everyone. Footballing quality wise, we have bigger individual problems in Sanchez, Lukaku, our CBs, than Pogba.

For better or for worse, the ball is in Pogba’s court right now and he knows it. Last season’s treatment by Jose clearly stung him and he’s getting back at the manager. I’d feel bad for Jose and bemoan player power if it weren’t the case that Jose is fundamentally getting a taste of his own medicine re respect and treatment. He absolutely set the precedent for this.

For me, this doesn’t look like ending well right now. There’s no way Jose has the whole support of the squad, and if it comes down to replacing a manager or core sections of the squad, it’s not hard to see which will be the more attractive option for the board.
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Yep - agree with this. Can't sell half the team, so Jose has to go - and rightly so.
Its clear they weren't getting on last year and even when Pogba had an excellent world cup, Mourinho still couldn't bring himself to praise him like any other manager would it was done in a backhand, snidey way.
Another way in which Jose has fecked up this situation is that if he had a real issue with Pogba then just sell him. Don't keep what you perceive to be a bad apple around as it'll only come back to bite you later. Fergie did this on numerous occasions, Beckham, Ince, Stam, RVN. No fecking about he just got rid. That shows a decisive character and whilst people didn't necessarily agree with those sales at the time, it kept everyone else in the team on their toes. Can't believe Jose expects Pogba to turn out world class performances week after week when the pair of them obviously can't stand each other. What Jose is saying is basically "I hate you but I need you so much I'll keep you around". Immediately ceding any power he had.
 
Cassidy said:
The point I am making is that he didn't ignore Jose, if anyone ignored the handshake it was Jose. Pogbas hand extended 3 times. Carrick, Jose and the coach
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Exactly. Don't know what that poster is on about.
 
Cassidy said:
I can see him dropping him and playing Fellaini in midfield and possibly Fred in his place to prove a point if this continues.
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If we weren’t so poor and in desperate need of points I’d agree. Remember though, Pogba was only dropped regularly when we were all but guaranteed top 4 last season. Doing it this time round could backfire horribly and almost suggest that Jose doesn’t particularly care about the bigger picture any more.

Also, Fred has only performed well alongside Pogba so far.
 
Zlatattack said:
I'd lose the manager first and then maybe the players later. This open beef being caught on cameras is unacceptable.
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Usually I’d agree but in this case Pogba hasn’t shown anywhere near the quality, loyalty or commitment that I’d need to see before backing a player over a manager.
 
The board has to decide which side to stay on, time is running out. Manager or player, enough it's enough. Nothing and nobody are more important than Manchester UniteD. If you want to continue with Josè and you think he is the right man to bring us were we belong , Paul must be sold , if instead you want to bet everything (very risky for several reasons) on the player, sack the manager now, and entrust immediately to a new manager to plan the future in the best way.
 
I'm not at all convinced by Mourinho. Every time I think we're turning a corner, we end up with results like our last two games. However, Fergie would have slung Pogba out a long time ago for his constant bitching to the media, regardless of how talented he is as a footballer.

The worry I have is that the situation has pretty much become Mourinho or Pogba, when neither are remotely convincing in their desire to stay at and do well at Manchester United. Bin Mourinho, and the next manager is coming in with Pogba basically having forced the previous manager out, with too much player power. Bin Pogba, and you've still got an under-performing manager showing no signs of fixing the numerous problems at the club, that doesn't appear to have the full backing of the board, and you've got rid of a potentially key player. It's a bit of a no win situation.

I 100% back Mourinho for taking the captaincy off Pogba. If he'd said what he'd said with Fergie as manager, he'd have already played his last game for us. I think a lot of people are missing the point that you can be sceptical of Mourinho's ability to lead the club in the direction we want it to go, while still remaining critical of Pogba's actions off the pitch.
 
Volumiza said:
Usually I’d agree but in this case Pogba hasn’t shown anywhere near the quality, loyalty or commitment that I’d need to see before backing a player over a manager.
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In this situation it doesn't really matter which one you want to back. The manager is basically done anyway. He's going soon. So why be in a hurry to get rid of the players he's got problems with? For the next manager, having Pogba will be better than not having Pogba.
 
el3mel said:
I pretty much said yesterday Mourinho needs to go now not even by end of season.

However, Pogba hasn't earned any right to have power or control at the club as well, so don't compare him to the likes of Ronaldo.

If Pogba performance here was a fraction of what Ronaldo was doing at Madrid at this time, I'll be willing to let Pogba choose the next manager himself.

But he didn't, so this is a silly comparison.

Even the comparison with Hazard in another post is terribly ridiculous when you consider that Hazard had won PFA player of the year and won his team the league the year before Mourinho crisis, so it's to side with him rather than Mourinho.

What did Pogba do for us to earn power ? Square root of nothing.
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The question we need to ask is - Does Pogba really want power at the club?
I'm pretty sure he is pissed off with Mourinho - probably Mo said something hurtful or insulted his integrity or something like that to have emotionally scared Pogba...maybe even embarrassed him in front of people.
I know for a fact that if somebody did something like that to me (especially a Mourinho type personality) I would be blood hungry, but generally I'm a nice guy who likes a bit of a joke from time to time.
When someone questions your integrity, especially in front of others, especially if you know you are trying, then that alone can take a normal, happy, rational person over the edge...and you can act a bit childish trying to get back at the person (as we have been seeing with these odd interviews).

I personally believe Pogba is this happy-go-lucky type of person, who likes to have fun doing what he's good at. I remember after his first match giving an interview with Zlatan - happy kid enjoying what he does and loves the club he's doing it for. I don't believe he is Power Hungry, not at all, he's just pissed off at Mo.
We need to remember that many a player coached under Mourinho have not been happy (many have been plenty happy), but the unhappy ones are definitely not bad people or bad players.
:nervous:
 
whatwha said:
In this situation it doesn't really matter which one you want to back. The manager is basically done anyway. He's going soon. So why be in a hurry to get rid of the players he's got problems with? For the next manager, having Pogba will be better than not having Pogba.
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That if Pogba isn't actually the one who wants to leave.
 
redIndianDevil said:
Yeah well Moyes didn't ask Ferdinand to watch videos of Phil Jagielka publicly either. If Moyes had said so to the media, Ferdinand would have done something similar too.
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Not sure what point youre making here.

On topic i am 100% against players publicly criticising tactics. You let that go on and youre done. Cant understand any justification for a player being as media involved as pogba is regarding his own narrative. Its incredible
 
This is not a Pogba or Mourinho debate, and the sad thing is, (and this is MOURINHO'S fault) that it is being played out that way. Pogba is being judged differently, and I don't, and have never really understood why. The guy is class. Why not kill the conversation? Mourinho could state that he thinks Pogba is a fantastic player, I want to bring the best out of all of the fantastic players we have here... and I do not want any of them to leave, because I want to build something fantastic here, at this fantastic club....

Mourinho could, could say something like that. But he will not. These silly news items, and constant media speculation doesn't help anybody. Pogba was superb for Juve. Superb for France. And is inconsistent with Man Utd, under Mourinho, similar to so, so, so many other players.

Mourinho is turning this team into a fiasco, and he knows it, and his pride cannot admit, nor change this. Look at the form of Bailly.. Lukaku... Lindgard... Martial... Rashford...Sanchez... Herrera... it's become a joke.

Get those players to work with another manager and you would see the difference.

Pogba isn't a selfish player. He isn't what he could be, yet. So what if he likes Social media etc... that's just annoying to some, because some cannot deal with someone who brings something different, a different lifestyle, different approach... and people do love watching him play. Kids, adults, past players, emerging players.

Why not harness that? Why announce any change of captaincy ? Why tell Pogba that in the first place? Why not tell him to prove he is a captain?

This is all Mourinho nonsense. People seem to forget what Mourinho said about the team pre-season, and how he has berated various players, publicly, since he has been at the club.

I cannot stand the guy. V successful in the recent past yes, but I find him a negative influence on the club. A very special club.
 
The more important thing here, what's happening between Rashford and Pereira there at the end? Rashford ignored the handshake or what? :lol:

It's a blood bath it seems.
 
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Kostov said:
The more important thing here, what's happening between Rashford and Pereira there at the end? Rashford ignored the handshake or what? :lol:

It a blood bath it seems.
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Won't be a surprise if everyone pulled out their guns and went full battlefield when the cameras went away.
 
el3mel said:
That if Pogba isn't actually the one who wants to leave.
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Get rid of both of the cnuts :D Just need to get market value for Pogba. And that won't happen if the situation is untenable with the manager.
 
After this on training, Ed must do something. Now. Either sack Jose and make Pogba leader of this squad for future by giving him new contract and captain armband or sell Pogba. This relationship is broken. They can work together months or two but that is it.
 
Kostov said:
The more important thing here, what's happening between Rashford and Pereira there at the end? Rashford ignored the handshake or what? :lol:

It a blood bath it seems.
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Thought they shook hands although it didn't look like Pereira was too happy with Jose either .

It is a huge circus now and it is only going to get worse with incidents like this . You can be sure the media will not let this go .

Ideally I'd get rid of both but if it was a choice of one then Jose has to go for me
 
There’s a 2 minute version but I don’t have priviliges to post but it looks like Jose is telling him to train with reserves and Pogba is asking why.

This has to be a staff member recording this.
 
whatwha said:
In this situation it doesn't really matter which one you want to back. The manager is basically done anyway. He's going soon. So why be in a hurry to get rid of the players he's got problems with? For the next manager, having Pogba will be better than not having Pogba.
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Pogba wants Barca over us regardless of the manager. You reall think switching manager will change that? I’ve seen enough of pogba to realise he’s like Ronaldo only without the short term commitment to the cause.
 
Volumiza said:
Usually I’d agree but in this case Pogba hasn’t shown anywhere near the quality, loyalty or commitment that I’d need to see before backing a player over a manager.
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And mourinho has?? Pogba is delivering the exact message we all want him to, directly to the manager we're all tired of. Sick of seeing all the B.S. directed at Pogba. I'm happy with everything he's said (not every performance). Maybe Woodward and hopefully the owners will finally take notice to see this squad is a house of cards and the few bonafide stars we have in it are about to leave and let it crumble.
 
lsd said:
Thought they shook hands although it didn't look like Pereira was too happy with Jose either .

It is a huge circus now and it is only going to get worse with incidents like this . You can be sure the media will not let this go .

Ideally I'd get rid of both but if it was a choice of one then Jose has to go for me
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Pereira didn't look too happy when he was sat in the stands with Pogba and co last night.
 
People who are saying you'd be happy with selling Pogba are the same people who expect some other club to pay over 100m for him. If he truly throws his shit out of the pram, any buying club would know they can skimp on the fee as United have no option but to sell. And having a long term contract means feck all these days. The player gets what he wants, this is the simple truth. Especially a world cup winner who'll likely vo on to be one of the best midfielders in the world.

Supporters should try to step off the moral high ground and see that the club has not been a good fit for him in terms of football. His off the field comments are suspect but it's fair to admit that if United are to get back towards the top in the next 3-5 years (very little chance of happening), Pogba will probably have a big part to play in that. But as I say it's very unlikely to happen and I can see both him and Jose leaving soon, DDG maybe further down the line.
 
fergieisold said:
The disagreement may be about something unrelated to the handshakes. May be some criticism about the training itself?
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More likely Jose made some comment about the captaincy, I wouldn't put it past him.
 
Kostov said:
The more important thing here, what's happening between Rashford and Pereira there at the end? Rashford ignored the handshake or what? :lol:

It a blood bath it seems.
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Yeah just picked it too :lol:

Saw the first time Rash skipping to extend his hand to Perreira and thought maybe he just missed him then Perreira tried to shake Rashford's hand and the latter was having none of it :lol:
 
This whole situation is unbelievable.

We risk losing one of the best midfielders in the game for a manager that most fans will agree doesn't have a long term future at the club. I fear more players with great potential will leave or be sold before Mourinho goes then we are back to square one, trying to find talent to replace them. They are more than capable with the right management.

Mourinho OUT. Pogba IN.
 
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