Moyes So Far!
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik (@Rood) is joined by CEO Duncan Drasdo and Financial Director Andy Green from the Manchester United Supporters Trust for a special episode on all things behind the scenes at Old Trafford including a brief history of MUST and their aims today, views on INEOS and Sir Jim Ratcliffe so far, and the Old Trafford regeneration.
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Indeed. If he'd said "You expect to win every single game with conceding" people would be thinking "This bloke's off his fecking nut".
It had to be didn't it? I hope Moyes has got a bloody broad set of shoulders; he's not only carrying the expectations of the fans but of the Wizard himself.
"I'd like to remind you that when we had bad times here, the club stood by me. The board stood by me, the staff stood by me and the players stood by me. Your job now is to stand by your new manager."
True man. We tend to grind out results, rather than win games with a swagger about us. We lack the players who give us a quick tempo, looking for the ball and also leading us. We dont have strong-willed talkers on the pitch, a leader that is like a gaffer on the pitch. If something goes wrong currently, as a team heads drop. No one really tries to rally the troops.
Moyes needed this period to show that, for his own understanding of us. It does need time.
Chelsea are better than us! Don't talk pish! Arguably City because the derby result it why the feck did they finish many a point behind us last season?
Of course it was, but it's not an outstanding team by any means. Therefore the result isn't a major major surprise.
Ofcourse there's nothing wrong in it, I think we have few faults too. But, every other team in the league has faults too. Forget about the league, take out Bayern and I think every other team in the world atm have distinct faults.
Both City and Chelsea have their own faults. I understand the competition underperformed last year and it probably wont happen again but few games into the season, its not the title challenge am worrying about. What am worrying about is our distinctly mediocre play so far. Today, we were just clueless vs west brom at home. No flow to the game, no creativity, really slow tempo. We needed either set plays or individual brilliance to score. That really shouldnt be the case.
Just as an aside, I dont think we need a truly out and out creative midfielder anyways.
I said major major surprise
With the way we've been playing and the team that was chosen I was sure it would be a tricky game.A functioning back four is the priority IMO.
To be fair they came very close to an upset a couple of seasons ago coming from behind to draw, and last seasons match at OT was anything but a walk in the park. The 5-5 at the end last season was also a sickening experience.
That being said, if we aspire to a top 2 finish this season we definitely need to win those types of games, especially after the demolition derby.
Might not need major surgery. What's becoming increasingly obvious is that the decline of the old stalwarts is not being matched by the improvement of the next generation. We're relying on the likes of Anderson, Cleverley, Welbeck, Nani, Smalling, Jones, Fabio, Rafael and Evans to step up and become some of the very best players in the league. That might still happen but if players like Rio, Giggs, Evra and Vidic can't keep on being key players for us before that happens we're in trouble. In which case we need massive investment or a lot of patience.
David Moyes clearly isn't used to managing a team like United, with the players he now has at his disposal. With time Moyes could grow into the role of Man Utd manager but some of his decisions make it look like he is almost afraid of he talent he has at his disposal or that he simply doesn't know how to use it most effectively.
Sometimes I wonder if he's so unused to players like Kagawa and Van Persie that he genuinely doesn't know how to manage them? The Kagawa sub was baffling, especially as it took Januzaj about 25 minutes to get going and Kagawa was a big part of the reason why West Brom couldn't handle us in the first half. Moyes' talk about 'a different way' strikes me to be the talk of a man who is used to direct football and cannot appreciate what Kagawa was offering us.
The Hernandez sub was equally bizarre. Nobody could argue that Hernandez played badly. The problem wasn't Chico's touch or his passing it was that he simply didn't get onto the ball in dangerous areas (in large part cos Kagawa being removed meant our midfield lost coherence). Moyes' response was simply to throw Van Persie on, as if by virtue of being Robin Van Persie he wouldn't face exactly the same problem Hernandez had. In fact, the same problem Van Persie has faced against Chelsea and Liverpool this season already of the ball just not reaching him often enough.
I genuinely think Moyes would be happier if we had a squad more like Chelsea's a few years ago with a big man like Drogba who could play the target man and people running off him. His record to date of using Cahill and Fellaini as the one working off the front suggests, to me, he's most comfortable with that style and he's inherited a squad of players who not only aren't accustomed to that but are unable to play it. I think if it were up to Moyes we'd be playing an entirely different type of football but he simply doesn't have the squad to do that and he's wrestling with how to use players the likes of which he's never had to work around.
Sometimes I wonder if he's so unused to players like Kagawa and Van Persie that he genuinely doesn't know how to manage them? The Kagawa sub was baffling, especially as it took Januzaj about 25 minutes to get going and Kagawa was a big part of the reason why West Brom couldn't handle us in the first half. Moyes' talk about 'a different way' strikes me to be the talk of a man who is used to direct football and cannot appreciate what Kagawa was offering us.
The Hernandez sub was equally bizarre. Nobody could argue that Hernandez played badly. The problem wasn't Chico's touch or his passing it was that he simply didn't get onto the ball in dangerous areas (in large part cos Kagawa being removed meant our midfield lost coherence). Moyes' response was simply to throw Van Persie on, as if by virtue of being Robin Van Persie he wouldn't face exactly the same problem Hernandez had. In fact, the same problem Van Persie has faced against Chelsea and Liverpool this season already of the ball just not reaching him often enough.
I genuinely think Moyes would be happier if we had a squad more like Chelsea's a few years ago with a big man like Drogba who could play the target man and people running off him. His record to date of using Cahill and Fellaini as the one working off the front suggests, to me, he's most comfortable with that style and he's inherited a squad of players who not only aren't accustomed to that but are unable to play it. I think if it were up to Moyes we'd be playing an entirely different type of football but he simply doesn't have the squad to do that and he's wrestling with how to use players the likes of which he's never had to work around.
I agree, especially as rival teams are strengthening with some of the best players in Europe, it adds more pressure on them.
Very true.
The fear is, will the Glazers invest heavily? The evidence would suggest not.
Of course they won't.
Apparently this is our worst start to a league campaign after six games since 1989-90.
Which begs the question, where does that leave us?
You strengthen whilst you are ahead. This squad was within a hairs breadth of winning the 2EPL on the bounce. We did last year and we won the title. This year Fellaini is not the answer.
Pointing out the obvious...but: We did create enough chances to salvage a result, even a win. These things do happen. We weren't comprehensibly outplayed by WBA at Old Trafford. He is obviously tinkering. That's pretty much what he has said he would do. A bit more sharpness from Chicha in the first half and we're up by two at half time.
I'm not excusing anything. Losing at home to WBA is not acceptable. But there were several positives. Nani seeming to find his form nicely. Having one hell of a talent in our squad - who might make a bigger impact this season than yours truly had anticipated.
Most importantly, Moyes hasn't found his XI yet. He's experimenting. This will inevitably lead to irregular performances. It can't be helped, really.
And now for the doom and gloom finale: I had a chat with an old timer just now. What he said was, in essence, this: Fergie did have us over-perform to an extent. We may have to face the ugly truth that our team at present is lacking something in terms of sheer quality.
My response to him was this: Yes, it's something I've thought about, obviously. But still: It can't be a matter of voodoo either. If player X looks like a bloody good footballer he probably is. It can't be an illusion created by Alex Ferguson. But, yes, you do have a point. He was special - and he did (of this there is no doubt whatsoever) provide us with something close to a twelfth man on the pitch in your regular, run-of-the-mill league match: That factor, call it what you will, which made us gather the points, regardless of the performance. It's an immense advantage. Not to be underestimated, as many teams found out when they lost against us after having performed well enough to beat just about any other side.
There have been plenty of matches over the last few seasons which we have won without outplaying our opponent by any stretch of the imagination. That is the mark of a certain type of champion: And without Fergie we don't have that anymore. Moyes will have to re-create a side that is actually a hell of a sight better than a team like WBA in terms of what the players do on the pitch. And that will take some time.
But, seriously, while there's reason for concern (as there has been ever since Fergie retired), there is no reason to panic just yet. Rio can't start on current form, Evra must play - Rafael too. Anderson can't start either. But we have good enough players to struggle through. We can field a great attacking threat if we want to. It should be enough. And where we end up in May depends not a little on the other teams. I suspect we'll see some dodgy performances and some poor results from our rivals as well.
I'm not excusing anything. Losing at home to WBA is not acceptable. But there were several positives. Nani seeming to find his form nicely. Having one hell of a talent in our squad - who might make a bigger impact this season than yours truly had anticipated.
Most importantly, Moyes hasn't found his XI yet. He's experimenting. This will inevitably lead to irregular performances. It can't be helped, really.
And now for the doom and gloom finale: I had a chat with an old timer just now. What he said was, in essence, this: Fergie did have us over-perform to an extent. We may have to face the ugly truth that our team at present is lacking something in terms of sheer quality.
My response to him was this: Yes, it's something I've thought about, obviously. But still: It can't be a matter of voodoo either. If player X looks like a bloody good footballer he probably is. It can't be an illusion created by Alex Ferguson. But, yes, you do have a point. He was special - and he did (of this there is no doubt whatsoever) provide us with something close to a twelfth man on the pitch in your regular, run-of-the-mill league match: That factor, call it what you will, which made us gather the points, regardless of the performance. It's an immense advantage. Not to be underestimated, as many teams found out when they lost against us after having performed well enough to beat just about any other side.
There have been plenty of matches over the last few seasons which we have won without outplaying our opponent by any stretch of the imagination. That is the mark of a certain type of champion: And without Fergie we don't have that anymore. Moyes will have to re-create a side that is actually a hell of a sight better than a team like WBA in terms of what the players do on the pitch. And that will take some time.
But, seriously, while there's reason for concern (as there has been ever since Fergie retired), there is no reason to panic just yet. Rio can't start on current form, Evra must play - Rafael too. Anderson can't start either. But we have good enough players to struggle through. We can field a great attacking threat if we want to. It should be enough. And where we end up in May depends not a little on the other teams. I suspect we'll see some dodgy performances and some poor results from our rivals as well.
So disappointing hearing him talk about our first half performance in that way. Yes, it wasn't cutting edge enough but it was arguably the best half of football we've produced all season and while we were a bit slow and a bit deliberate West Brom really didn't know how to cope or how to outplay us. It sounds like he just wants us to bomb down the wing at speed and sling in crosses, patient build up not permitted.
Genuinely don't understand his subs today. Didn't change anything tactically speaking other than pull our wide players further apart, reducing the interplay between the front 4 and making it easier to defend against us. The striker sub didn't change the fact the number 9 wasn't getting the ball enough like against Chelsea, Liverpool and City and the final sub made us less potent going forward and more vulnerable to counters. Poor.
Chelsea doesn't have better players than us, City are about the same quality. We comfortably won the league last season so the main problem isn't the lack of quality players.
And to cap it all, Moyes has got a black rectangle on his nose.
I think people would be much more patient and understanding of results if we had the balls to make this a new/younger team, I'd have major respect for what we were aiming to do. In the end we just kinda left it as it was and didn't even properly fix our most pressing issue, we overpaid last minute on a single midfielder (when the manager wanted 2) that's probably not really suited for our needs and that was it.
What would you expect him to do? To patently say our players underpeform? Or that they're shite? Fergie would have done exactly the same.
Aye, I noticed that too: Defeatist. Definitely defeatist.
Teething problems... We can't expect a second rate manager to become a top class manager overnight. It'll take time and he has to do a lot of learning on the job... And as a result I think we will see a few more of these types of results as the season progresses.
What the hell. West Brom were very comfortable throughout the first half because we were quite flat. Only Nani's crosses posed any threat whatsoever. It was... just about okay, there were reasons to hope that we can step it up and improve in the second half. We collapsed instead, inexplicably.
Fergie knew there could be a few bad results and moaning. The thing is that in those two horror shows (City, WBA) the fans behaved adorably, it's the players that let the club down.
Yes, but we don't know what kind of team he's going to end up with, do we? He's testing the water, finding out who can do what and where - and in what circumstances: That's the nature of the thing right now. It hasn't settled in any way.
It's still the same group of players that were champions last season, what's he done to them?
"I don't know that arrow, but they tell me it's pointing backwards and I will just have to get to know it a bit better before I can determine whether it really does. Point backwards, I mean."
I was imagining the fact that they didn't put together any real kind of attacks or that Kagawa ate their right back for breakfast repeatedly, rolling the ball into Buttner and dropping one on Anderson's head then? Ok.
Definitely agree with that but it's the fact that I don't agree with so many of his decisions or what he does which makes it much harder to back him.
That and I think another manager may have come in and handled the transfer market a lot better.
Yeah, one blocked shot and one header that was flagged offside. West Brom couldn't cope with us, clearly: we almost scored a goal that wouldn't have been given.
Seriously, it was an okay performance in the first half. Lacked urgency and creativity and we looked a little vulnerable defensively. I was hoping we could step it up, we could not.
http://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/en/bayern-munich/mitarbeiter/verein_27.html
Guardiola brought his own men but also kept the Bayern backroom staff - assistant coach, gk coach, fitness coach, rehab coach. The ones he brought from Barca -assistant coach and fitness coach were already succesful. Moyes brought a group who had never tasted success at the highest level as backroom staff.
There was just too much change in the backroom staff, the senior administrators/executives and not enough in the playing staff. Moyes had control over two of these aspects - backroom staff, playing staff.
Guardiola brought his own men but also kept the Bayern backroom staff - assistant coach, gk coach, fitness coach, rehab coach. The ones he brought from Barca -assistant coach and fitness coach were already succesful. Moyes brought a group who had never tasted success at the highest level as backroom staff.
There was just too much change in the backroom staff, the senior administrators/executives and not enough in the playing staff. Moyes had control over two of these aspects - backroom staff, playing staff.
Yeah, thank feck for match going fans. They're inclined, bless them, to actually support the team and the manager. And they will keep doing that for a good while yet.
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