Mozilla CEO "resigns"

[Eboue]

Can Microsoft apply pressure on Apple for its business in China? Can Adidas point out that Nike uses sweatshops? Can Ford advertise that their plants are union and their competitors aren't?



(whether the accusing company in these scenarios has similar violations isn't the point, just an example)

 

[fishfingers15]

Everyone has the right to question anyone. That's a free society works. Everyone can decide what is acceptable and what is not. They get to make their case and other people can decide if they agree with that position. If enough people agree with that position, those affected by that position will start to take notice. At that point, they decide whether having so many people angry with them is worth continuing to employ a noted bigot as the public head of their company. They decided that it wasn't. No one was forced into anything.

Which is very good in a utopian society. Everybody had a right to opinion and right to question anyone, but some will have undue influence on others. It's the nature of humans. The only reason we are having this debate is the person in question was to become a CEO of Mozilla. We all use his javascript happily, while we defend the right of OKCupid to whip up a media frenzy, and organizing a much publicized blackout of Mozilla forcing Mozilla's hand. Your excuse is that Mozilla has the final vote on firing/hiring him, so OKcupid is within it's right to do so. On an unrelated parallel, what about Crimea? Majority voted, so why complain on who initiated the riots? At the end, Crimean population wanted the split, they got it.

 

[Eboue]

Which is very good in a utopian society. Everybody had a right to opinion and right to question anyone, but some will have undue influence on others. It's the nature of humans. The only reason we are having this debate is the person in question was to become a CEO of Mozilla. We all use his javascript happily, while we defend the right of OKCupid to whip up a media frenzy, and organizing a much publicized blackout of Mozilla forcing Mozilla's hand. Your excuse is that Mozilla has the final vote on firing/hiring him, so OKcupid is within it's right to do so. On an unrelated parallel, what about Crimea? Majority voted, so why complain on who initiated the riots? At the end, Crimean population wanted the split, they got it.

We all use cars but Henry Ford was still a horrible racist bastard. What's your point? Anyone should be able to advocate for or against anything in a free society.


You are right that it is unrelated and as such I will refer you to my posts in the Crimea thread which answer your questions.

 

[Silva]

Which is very good in a utopian society. Everybody had a right to opinion and right to question anyone, but some will have undue influence on others. It's the nature of humans. The only reason we are having this debate is the person in question was to become a CEO of Mozilla. We all use his javascript happily, while we defend the right of OKCupid to whip up a media frenzy, and organizing a much publicized blackout of Mozilla forcing Mozilla's hand. Your excuse is that Mozilla has the final vote on firing/hiring him, so OKcupid is within it's right to do so. On an unrelated parallel, what about Crimea? Majority voted, so why complain on who initiated the riots? At the end, Crimean population wanted the split, they got it.

Crimea wasn't annexed because someone disagreed with them and boycotted the region, Crimea was annexed because Russia wanted to annex Crimea. A related parallel would be if google just walked into the Mozilla office and said "yeah, this is google now."

 

[fishfingers15]

We all use cars but Henry Ford was still a horrible racist bastard. What's your point? Anyone should be able to advocate for or against anything in a free society.


You are right that it is unrelated and as such I will refer you to my posts in the Crimea thread which answer your questions.

You'll find many examples like Henry Ford in today's world to be honest. Apparently Cumberbatch family engaged in slave trade, so should we boycott his movies too etc etc. The times Henry Ford lived in is much different to the ones that we live today.

How do we treat CEO's? A person or a company? How do you know he's a bigot? So he doesn't believe in gay marriage, and he made a donation previously. So what gives? I don't discriminate against LGBT, but I'm straight and I believe marriages should happen between man and woman, does that make me a bigot?

 

[fishfingers15]

Crimea wasn't annexed because someone disagreed with them and boycotted the region, Crimea was annexed because Russia wanted to annex Crimea. A related parallel would be if google just walked into the Mozilla office and said "yeah, this is google now."

No, Google didn't own Mozilla previously

 

[DOTA]

You'll find many examples like Henry Ford in today's world to be honest. Apparently Cumberbatch family engaged in slave trade, so should we boycott his movies too etc etc. The times Henry Ford lived in is much different to the ones that we live today.

How do we treat CEO's? A person or a company? How do you know he's a bigot? So he doesn't believe in gay marriage, and he made a donation previously. So what gives? I don't discriminate against LGBT, but I'm straight and I believe marriages should happen between man and woman, does that make me a bigot?

I don't tend to worry about the reasoning behind people's views. Whether or not a person dislikes gay people isn't that important. Whether or not they attempt to restrict the rights of gay people is much more so, to me.

 

[Eboue]

You'll find many examples like Henry Ford in today's world to be honest. Apparently Cumberbatch family engaged in slave trade, so should we boycott his movies too etc etc. The times Henry Ford lived in is much different to the ones that we live today.

How do we treat CEO's? A person or a company? How do you know he's a bigot? So he doesn't believe in gay marriage, and he made a donation previously. So what gives? I don't discriminate against LGBT, but I'm straight and I believe marriages should happen between man and woman, does that make me a bigot?

I would say you have bigoted views, yes.

 

[fishfingers15]

I would say you have bigoted views, yes.

So in spite of me not discriminating against gay people, not participating in a protest, not trying to influence others that being gay is wrong/gay marriage is wrong, you'd judge me to be a bigot because I believe in something? What's the point of free speech or free thinking then? You'd rather decide my breakfast and lunch too.

 

[Silva]

So in spite of me not discriminating against gay people, not participating in a protest, not trying to influence others that being gay is wrong/gay marriage is wrong, you'd judge me to be a bigot because I believe in something? What's the point of free speech or free thinking then? You'd rather decide my breakfast and lunch too.

You don't have to join the Nazi Party to be a bigot. And part of free speech is accepting what others make of your opinions.

 

[Eboue]

So in spite of me not discriminating against gay people, not participating in a protest, not trying to influence others that being gay is wrong/gay marriage is wrong, you'd judge me to be a bigot because I believe in something? What's the point of free speech or free thinking then? You'd rather decide my breakfast and lunch too.

It's my free speech and free thinking to think that you have bigoted views, is it not?

 

[Alex99]

So in spite of me not discriminating against gay people, not participating in a protest, not trying to influence others that being gay is wrong/gay marriage is wrong, you'd judge me to be a bigot because I believe in something? What's the point of free speech or free thinking then? You'd rather decide my breakfast and lunch too.

You're discriminating against gay people because you don't think they should have the same rights as you.

 

[fishfingers15]

You're discriminating against gay people because you don't think they should have the same rights as you.

Should I be changing my beliefs frequently based on what other people do? How am I discriminating against them? Am I denying them their rights to marry? Do I snatch their pies while they were looking away?

 

[fishfingers15]

Well, ok. I'm going to take a break from this thread, because I'm a bigot. I just hope that child molesters in the coming years say that marrying early is their right and as long as they have consenting children for marriage, they should be allowed to marry and my forward thinking brain runs forward enough to accept their views and not discriminate against them.

 

[Alex99]

Should I be changing my beliefs frequently based on what other people do? How am I discriminating against them? Am I denying them their rights to marry? Do I snatch their pies while they were looking away?

Definition of descrimination: "the unjust or prejudicial treatment of different categories of people"

I'd say thinking they shouldn't have the same rights as you fits that pretty well.

 

[Alex99]

Well, ok. I'm going to take a break from this thread, because I'm a bigot. I just hope that child molesters in the coming years say that marrying early is their right and as long as they have consenting children for marriage, they should be allowed to marry and my forward thinking brain runs forward enough to accept their views and not discriminate against them.

Because being gay and being a paedophile is the same thing.

 

[crappycraperson]

Well, ok. I'm going to take a break from this thread, because I'm a bigot. I just hope that child molesters in the coming years say that marrying early is their right and as long as they have consenting children for marriage, they should be allowed to marry and my forward thinking brain runs forward enough to accept their views and not discriminate against them.

WTF. You have lost it mate. Drawing comparison between pedophiles and homosexuals is as low as it gets.

 

[Eboue]

Well, ok. I'm going to take a break from this thread, because I'm a bigot. I just hope that child molesters in the coming years say that marrying early is their right and as long as they have consenting children for marriage, they should be allowed to marry and my forward thinking brain runs forward enough to accept their views and not discriminate against them.

You're losing it.

 

[Alex99]

WTF. You have lost it mate. Drawing comparison between pedophiles and homosexuals is as low as it gets.

You're talking to a bloke who apparently identifies as a feminist despite thinking that 'feminist cnut' is an acceptable insult.

 

[DOTA]

Well, ok. I'm going to take a break from this thread, because I'm a bigot. I just hope that child molesters in the coming years say that marrying early is their right and as long as they have consenting children for marriage, they should be allowed to marry and my forward thinking brain runs forward enough to accept their views and not discriminate against them.

I can only assume you are blissfully unaware of the history of that comparison. It's offensive enough as a flippant point but given how commonly gay men have been assumed to be a danger to children it is about as harmful a comment as one can make on the issue.

 

[Alex99]

I can only assume you are blissfully unaware of the history of that comparison. It's offensive enough as a flippant point but given how commonly gay men have been assumed to be a danger to children it is about as harmful a comment as one can make on the issue.

It's just absurdly ignorant.

 

[Blasphemy]

You'll find many examples like Henry Ford in today's world to be honest. Apparently Cumberbatch family engaged in slave trade, so should we boycott his movies too etc etc. The times Henry Ford lived in is much different to the ones that we live today.

How do we treat CEO's? A person or a company? How do you know he's a bigot? So he doesn't believe in gay marriage, and he made a donation previously. So what gives? I don't discriminate against LGBT, but I'm straight and I believe marriages should happen between man and woman, does that make me a bigot?

Yes that does make you a bigot, and clearly you do discriminate against LGBT people, you just stated so yourself.

If I 'don't discriminate against black people' but believe marriages are between two white people then that sure as feck makes me a bigot, no doubt about it.

Nevermind I just read lower down and noticed you're now comparing gay people to those who have non consensual sex with children....

 

[adexkola]

I'm sure fish is just misunderstood... Stuff your pitchforks away...

If only people decided to boycott companies that use sweatshop labor, or lobby for lowered tax rates.... Instead of nitpicking easy targets. The inconsistency reeks of hypocrisy.

 

[DOTA]

I'm sure fish is just misunderstood... Stuff your pitchforks away...

If only people decided to boycott companies that use sweatshop labor, or lobby for lowered tax rates.... Instead of nitpicking easy targets. The inconsistency reeks of hypocrisy.

Not misunderstood, at all. It's a remarkably stupid thing to say, or a dangerously bigoted one. We're all giving the benefit of the doubt and assuming the former.

 

[Alex99]

I'm afraid the "something shittier happens elsewhere" argument never really holds much weight, adexkola.

 

[Eboue]

And if we want to use that argument, how about we spend less time worrying about people being fired for being anti-gay and more time worrying about people being fired for being gay.

 

[adexkola]

I'm afraid the "something shittier happens elsewhere" argument never really holds much weight, adexkola.

My point was that these protesters, these boycotters aren't coming from a sincere place. The whole campaign was agenda driven. Sure, they have the right to do whatever they want. I primarily blame the board of Mozilla for being wimps on the issue, as things stand they lost a man great at his job, and the money used to dispose of him and hire another CEO. The silver lining is that Eich most likely received a golden parachute.

That being said, let's not glorify OKCupid et al as crusaders for justice. Otherwise, why the lack of consistency then? If people were so principled as they put forward, more instances of CEOs being demoted for "different" beliefs would happen. There are a few people who go the extra mile and boycott everything associated with contrary beliefs, and fair fecks to them. But the majority of pitchfork wavers are just full of shit really.

Like the article alluded to, why wouldn't it be cool for the people that voted for Prop 8 to be named and shamed? Potentially deprived of a job through being "persuaded" to resign?

But we're just flogging a dead horse now.

 

[Shamwow]

Everything else aside, it's kind of crazy that he or anyone else would want to spend $1000 in order to stop loads of people he doesn't even know from getting married.

 

[Jippy]

You'll find many examples like Henry Ford in today's world to be honest. Apparently Cumberbatch family engaged in slave trade, so should we boycott his movies too etc etc. The times Henry Ford lived in is much different to the ones that we live today.

How do we treat CEO's? A person or a company? How do you know he's a bigot? So he doesn't believe in gay marriage, and he made a donation previously. So what gives? I don't discriminate against LGBT, but I'm straight and I believe marriages should happen between man and woman, does that make me a bigot?

I went to St. Nicholas' Abbey yesterday. It's aplantation

 

[Jippy]

Sorry, phone being gay. It's a plantation and rum distillery in Barbados owned by the Cumberbatch's previously. Lovely house but a fecking rip off. Gays seemed welcome.
Nice haircut Fishy btw

 

[Edgar Allan Pillow]

Yes that does make you a bigot, and clearly you do discriminate against LGBT people, you just stated so yourself.

If I 'don't discriminate against black people' but believe marriages are between two white people then that sure as feck makes me a bigot, no doubt about it.

Nevermind I just read lower down and noticed you're now comparing gay people to those who have non consensual sex with children....

So you are one of the "Oh, you don't agree with my opinion. You must be a bigot' camp, huh?

 

[Alex99]

So you are one of the "Oh, you don't agree with my opinion. You must be a bigot' camp, huh?

He said he doesn't think homosexuals should be allowed to get married. That is discrimination against homosexuals. He also presented it in a way that his opinion must be correct, comparing homosexuals to child molesters. I think bigoted is a fairly safe description.

 

[Edgar Allan Pillow]

He said he doesn't think homosexuals should be allowed to get married. That is discrimination against homosexuals. He also presented it in a way that his opinion must be correct, comparing homosexuals to child molesters. I think bigoted is a fairly safe description.

Nope. Think there was similar discussion in one other current thread. Major distinction between thoughts and actions. Every person should have a choice to think what he believes is right and talk about that without other trying to police thoughts. If and when it turns to actions, he becomes a bigot and subject to repercussions. Trying to enforce your own morality and calling others bigots for thinking different is as bad as a real bigot.

 

[Alex99]

Nope. Think there was similar discussion in one other current thread. Major distinction between thoughts and actions. Every person should have a choice to think what he believes is right and talk about that without other trying to police thoughts. If and when it turns to actions, he becomes a bigot and subject to repercussions. Trying to enforce your own morality and calling others bigots for thinking different is as bad as a real bigot.

I can't help but disagree when one person believes in restricting the rights of others.

 

[Edgar Allan Pillow]

I can't help but disagree when one person believes in restricting the rights of others.

That's the whole concept of society. Everyone has their views and then the common decides on which way the society takes and all comply irrespective of their individual original views. And that's how it should be.
If you start suppressing freedom of thought, it is a far bigger crime imo.

And 'bigot' is a term that is too loosely used nowadays. everyone seems to throw it about on other who don't agree to that opinion. 'Restriction of rights' as you put it happens in abortion, death penalty and in so many other divisive issues. Not all are 'bigots', are they?

 

[Alex99]

That's the whole concept of society. Everyone has their views and then the common decides on which way the society takes and all comply irrespective of their individual original views. And that's how it should be.
If you start suppressing freedom of thought, it is a far bigger crime imo.

And 'bigot' is a term that is too loosely used nowadays. everyone seems to throw it about on other who don't agree to that opinion. 'Restriction of rights' as you put it happens in abortion, death penalty and in so many other divisive issues. Not all are 'bigots', are they?

Are you not restricting my freedom of thought by telling me that I can't think that someone is bigoted?

The death penalty is a far less contentious issue than marriage equality, as evidence by the fact that most developed countries are in agreement regarding it.

If you genuinely believe that me calling someone a bigot, when they have clearly displayed discrimination towards homosexuals, is worse than them displaying such discrimination, then you seriously need to reevaluate how you view the world.

 

[Silva]

That's the whole concept of society. Everyone has their views and then the common decides on which way the society takes and all comply irrespective of their individual original views. And that's how it should be.
If you start suppressing freedom of thought, it is a far bigger crime imo.

And 'bigot' is a term that is too loosely used nowadays. everyone seems to throw it about on other who don't agree to that opinion. 'Restriction of rights' as you put it happens in abortion, death penalty and in so many other divisive issues. Not all are 'bigots', are they?

You're right, everyone one has their views. Some of those views happen to be bigoted.

 

[Edgar Allan Pillow]

You're right, everyone one has their views. Some of those views happen to be bigoted.

Live with it. Don't try to police thoughts.

 

[Silva]

Live with it. Don't try to police thoughts.

That's stupid. You're being the thought police here pal. He's welcome to he's bigoted views, I'm just also entitled to call him a bigot.

 

[Wibble]

You'll find many examples like Henry Ford in today's world to be honest. Apparently Cumberbatch family engaged in slave trade, so should we boycott his movies too etc etc. The times Henry Ford lived in is much different to the ones that we live today.

What has tht got to do with the Mozilla situation? Those were in the fairly distant past and in the case of Cumberbatch nothing to do with him personally or his film making. If he advicated slavery then I think a boycott would be very reasonable. Even if he hadn't advocated slavery since 2006.

So he doesn't believe in gay marriage, and he made a donation previously. So what gives? I don't discriminate against LGBT, but I'm straight and I believe marriages should happen between man and woman, does that make me a bigot?

Quite possibly although hopefully you just haven't though it through properly. And preventing gay people having the same rights as everyone else is discrimination. Rather obviously.