Nani

amolbhatia100 said:
You're not getting it because you're misunderstanding the criticism (of you). It isn't because you think Valencia is better or that you are critical of Nani. We all praise our players and criticize them when we feel necessary. Valencia himself is a quality player and while I don't agree, it's perfectly fine to prefer him or rate him higher. But your posts on Nani come across as incredibly biased. The tone of your posts regarding Nani seem to be overly negative and have some strange content I can't fathom, which is odd for a player whose just stepped his game a level up this season and has been regarded by his peers as the best United player of the season (which isn't the be all and end all of everything but is a good indicator).

Anyways, I don't mean to drag our 'spat' on. I just thought it should be cleared up why that was thought of about you in the first place. It's fine if you disagree. You're totally entitled to.
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This Aaron... I don't mind you rating Valencia more... But its mostly your biased reviews and how you change your mind in each post...

I wouldn't mind if it was 2 seasons ago and you'd slate Nani, and go on away with how he is inconsistent... But for me, he's been amazing since Le'Arse last year.... And I inconsistent wouldn't be a word I'd describe him now...

I'm not getting your posts too, you say you dislike Nani the most... And then you said say he is in the verge of improving etc...

It contradicts mate...

Its like every new post from you is a new Aaron...

Strange.

Mind u... I'm going back on the topic about Nani now so tah tah...
 
Name Changed said:
I admit I prefer players that are extremely reliable and consistent. There is nothing wrong with that. I does not mean I do not see Nani's talents or admire what he can do. I have not critisised Nani other to say than to say he is inconsistent within games and to say I thought Hernandez & Vidic had better seasons. With the talents he has, there should be not doubt about his place in the team. However, I would be of the opinion that he won't start the Champions League Final, and there is a reason for that. If Ferguson was sure that the consistent Nani would get a goal or assist in the match, he would definitely start. But isn't it more likely that Park and Valencia will be trusted to start? I don't know, it's only my opinion that these two will be picked.

Just because you prefer flair players over reliable players does not mean that you are right. It's a matter of opinion, not fact.

Nani has had an extremely good season. I doubt many will argue against that. In fact, I never actually said anything to the contrary.
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You seem to be contesting my suggestion (?) when you're saying exactly what I've said!
 
Brwned said:
You seem to be contesting my suggestion (?) when you're saying exactly what I've said!
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Saying something like "it's ingrained into how he perceives the game" sounds extremely condescending, as if I or others who prefer certain players cannot understand or fathom what a player like Nani can do or what he can bring to the team. Your post reads to me as if I must not understand the game if I prefer workmanlike players over flair players.

So I just explained my point whilst showing that I do appreciate what Nani can do.

If you weren't being condescending, then fair enough and I apologise for my rant. That's just how it read to me.
 
Name Changed said:
Saying something like "it's ingrained into how he perceives the game" sounds extremely condescending, as if I or others who prefer certain players cannot understand or fathom what a player like Nani can do or what he can bring to the team. Your post reads to me as if I must not understand the game if I prefer workmanlike players over flair players.

So I just explained my point whilst showing that I do appreciate what Nani can do.

If you weren't being condescending, then fair enough and I apologise for my rant. That's just how it read to me.
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It didn't seem condescending to me, really. It's true that certain people have a certain preference for one 'style', if you will, of player than another. People also do see the game differently. If we all saw the game the same and all had the same opinions, this wouldn't be a forum after all more a one-man blog for us all to click 'like' on the comments of like some creepy facebook stalker.

There are some things that some players do that I forgive more readily and easily than others because they're my 'type' of player.

I am a fan of Nani the same as I'm a fan of every Manchester United player. I've REPEATEDLY said he is much improved, that he's growing into a brilliant player etc. However all that gets ignored and overlooked when people insinuate that I'm "anti-Nani" (whoever she was). I see faults in his game and express them, perhaps in temperance to what I perceive to be ludicrous level of praise that he gets. But i understand that it is just my opinion and others might have issues with players like Rooney, whom I don't have a problem with. Other's might. In the main we can all put forward our ideas, opinions and analysis and sometimes have it challenged, agreed with or ignored. It's when people try and stiffle any kind of debate or question your motives, then I have a problem. I especially have a problem with one of those people hammered another player elsewhere in another thread and then comes on here and tries to read me the riot act for having critical opinions on the other.

There are just all opinions at the end of the day and we get them as no two people see the game exactly the same.
 
Aaron said:
It didn't seem condescending to me, really. It's true that certain people have a certain preference for one 'style', if you will, of player than another. People also do see the game differently. If we all saw the game the same and all had the same opinions, this wouldn't be a forum after all more a one-man blog for us all to click 'like' on the comments of like some creepy facebook stalker.

There are some things that some players do that I forgive more readily and easily than others because they're my 'type' of player.

I am a fan of Nani the same as I'm a fan of every Manchester United player. I've REPEATEDLY said he is much improved, that he's growing into a brilliant player etc. However all that gets ignored and overlooked when people insinuate that I'm "anti-Nani" (whoever she was). I see faults in his game and express them, perhaps in temperance to what I perceive to be ludicrous level of praise that he gets. But i understand that it is just my opinion and others might have issues with players like Rooney, whom I don't have a problem with. Other's might. In the main we can all put forward our ideas, opinions and analysis and sometimes have it challenged, agreed with or ignored. It's when people try and stiffle any kind of debate or question your motives, then I have a problem. I especially have a problem with one of those people hammered another player elsewhere in another thread and then comes on here and tries to read me the riot act for having critical opinions on the other.

There are just all opinions at the end of the day and we get them as no two people see the game exactly the same.
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Fair enough.
 
Only 75% passing in the game, but 2 assists. I thought he looked good and worth 3rd for MotM.

I like him on the right, as the newbies know. Keep him there.
 
There's a good compilation of Nani's best goals on mutv right now.. he's scored some crackers.
 
He was awful against Swansea. I'd love to see his pass stats. Seemed like he found a white shirt every time.
 
Sharky7 said:
Seems to me that these days that when Nani is off form, we are off form. Anyone else get the same feeling?
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We need one of Rooney or Nani to be firing.

Last few games, he's really lacked intensity in his game. Seems content to just get involved in a bit of link up play. Not really taking his man on enough. At his worst I'd expect him to do those things but have them not come off. Hope they regains form fast.
 
amolbhatia100 said:
We need one of Rooney or Nani to be firing.
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Pretty much. Seeing as they're pretty easily our 2 best attackers (not including Giggs) it's no surprise though. Most of what we do comes through them.

I thought he would be rested against Swansea, considering he played for Portugal in the playoffs, because he did look tired, and played poor.

Fergie likes using Valencia in Europe so I'm sure he'll rest him.
 
Bad Nani needs to go away now.
 
amolbhatia100 said:
We need one of Rooney or Nani to be firing.

Last few games, he's really lacked intensity in his game. Seems content to just get involved in a bit of link up play. Not really taking his man on enough. At his worst I'd expect him to do those things but have them not come off. Hope they regains form fast.
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Disagree. It helps when they're on top of their game but we don't "need" them for anything. Rooney's by far the more important of the two but we did just fine in the first half of last season when he was woefully out of sorts. And that was before we had Young and Welbeck in the mix, while Valencia was out with a broken leg.

Does anyone seriously think we'd struggle to create/score goals with a front four picked from Berbatov, Young, Valencia, Welbeck, Hernandez, Giggs and Park?

Of course, continuing to play Nani and Rooney when they're out of form (although I think Rooney was a lot closer to his best against Swansea than Nani was) definitely harms our attacking football. The problem isn't because we need them to play well, mind you, it's the negative effect of them playing badly.
 
Pogue Mahone said:
Disagree. It helps when they're on top of their game but we don't "need" them for anything. Rooney's by far the more important of the two but we did just fine in the first half of last season when he was woefully out of sorts. And that was before we had Young and Welbeck in the mix, while Valencia was out with a broken leg.
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Slightly contradictory considering Nani was "by far" our best attacker in the first half of last season.

Pogue Mahone said:
Does anyone seriously think we'd struggle to create/score goals with a front four picked from Berbatov, Young, Valencia, Welbeck, Hernandez, Giggs and Park?
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We're struggling to score goals no matter what front 4 we pick in the last 2 months, Hernandez is the only consistent goal scorer out of that lot and Giggs is the only one who can provide the needed spark on a regular basis, and he's 38. The others are all good assets but Berbs goals are inconsistent and Welbeck hasn't shown quite enough yet to suggest that he'll score regularly. Valencia and Park are good but rarely hit the net and only the former is capable of creating goals, but certainly not as much as Rooney or Nani can.

So yes, we would.
 
cina said:
Slightly contradictory considering Nani was "by far" our best attacker in the first half of last season.



We're struggling to score goals no matter what front 4 we pick in the last 2 months, Hernandez is the only consistent goal scorer out of that lot and Giggs is the only one who can provide the needed spark on a regular basis, and he's 38. The others are all good assets but Berbs goals are inconsistent and Welbeck hasn't shown quite enough yet to suggest that he'll score regularly.

So yes, we would.
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Nah, bollox we would. Those players are plenty good enough to create/score goals in Rooney/Nani's absence (although in terms of overall importance to the team, Rooney >>>> Nani, obviously).

As per my edit, when Nani plays badly we don't suffer because we're missing his attacking prowess anyway. We suffer because he's playing badly and with our formation it's hard to create/score goals when the most attacking of the two wingers selected is having a stinker.
 
Sharky7 said:
Seems to me that these days that when Nani is off form, we are off form. Anyone else get the same feeling?
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I think it's more a case of when our wingers aren't at their best we can look laboured - been that way for a long time though, given our emphasis on wingplay. Take the Arsenal game as an example (and most of our initial games, really) in that Nani wasn't at his best but we still looked fluid and threatening throughout because Young on the opposite side was having an excellent game.
 
Pogue Mahone said:
Nah, bollox we would. Those players are plenty good enough to create/score goals in Rooney/Nani's absence (although in terms of overall importance to the team, Rooney >>>> Nani, obviously).

As per my edit, when Nani plays badly we don't suffer because we're missing his attacking prowess anyway. We suffer because he's playing badly and with our formation it's hard to create/score goals when one of your two wingers is having a stinker.
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I think many would disagree with you saying Rooney is far more important than Nani, obviously more important but not to that extent. Nani on form is the best winger in the league, and as you just said we are very reliant on our wingers ergo he is a very important part of the team, but you always have underrated him.

Also the entire last paragraph is just wrong. Insert any player in our team into that paragraph instead of Nani and it's still the same. Obviously we don't play as well if one of the players on the pitch is playing poorly, what has that got to do with how important he is?
 
The point I'm making is that we don't "need" Nani to be an attacking threat as a team because we've got excellent back-up.

If he gets the nod, though, and plays badly then of course we suffer. This isn't the same thing as "needing" him.
 
Why wouldn't we need our best winger to be a better attacking threat than we would without him? :confused:
 
Pogue Mahone said:
Disagree. It helps when they're on top of their game but we don't "need" them for anything. Rooney's by far the more important of the two but we did just fine in the first half of last season when he was woefully out of sorts. And that was before we had Young and Welbeck in the mix, while Valencia was out with a broken leg.

Does anyone seriously think we'd struggle to create/score goals with a front four picked from Berbatov, Young, Valencia, Welbeck, Hernandez, Giggs and Park?

Of course, continuing to play Nani and Rooney when they're out of form (although I think Rooney was a lot closer to his best against Swansea than Nani was) definitely harms our attacking football. The problem isn't because we need them to play well, mind you, it's the negative effect of them playing badly.
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''Need'' is perhaps a tad too strong a word but the sentiments are spot on. We dont look half the side we are in Rooney's absence. he's our main man and quite comfortably our best striker which is why we will never be as big a threat in his absence. His poor form at the start of last season coincided with berba's rich vein of goals, which is why we didnt really suffer. if his form goes to the cleaners now like it last time around, we'l be hard pressed in the attacking third imo.

Regarding the rest of the post, yes, we would quite clearly find it much more difficult to create and score goals in the absence of rooney and nani. they are quite comfortably our best attackers, any team would suffer if its main 2 front men went missing. we look devoid of creativity now when they're off form for a reason. Only giggsy of the players you mentioned is creative consistently and he's 38. the others havent really proven themselves to be creative outlets for us over a stretch of time. Also, only hernandez is the one who has proved capable of hitting the back of the net on a consistent basis. Even he needs good service to deliver.
 
Sharky7 said:
Seems to me that these days that when Nani is off form, we are off form. Anyone else get the same feeling?
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That's so true. Nani has played well in every game that we have played well this season (City in CS, Spurs, Arsenal, Bolton, Chelsea). Whilst the last 8-9 games he's played poorly we've massively struggled.

Mind you the same could probably be argued about Young.
 
Not really, Young has done little of note since the Arsenal game.
 
Pogue Mahone said:
The point I'm making is that we don't "need" Nani to be an attacking threat as a team because we've got excellent back-up.

If he gets the nod, though, and plays badly then of course we suffer. This isn't the same thing as "needing" him.
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Well, kinda agree with that. valencia is an excellent number 2 to have on the right. the same cannot be said for our strikers though. Dont have anyone close to as good as rooney is. Even valencia, very good as he is, isnt capable of what nani at his best is.
 
finneh said:
That's so true. Nani has played well in every game that we have played well this season (City in CS, Spurs, Arsenal, Bolton, Chelsea). Whilst the last 8-9 games he's played poorly we've massively struggled.

Mind you the same could probably be argued about Young.
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Ditto Rooney. Ditto Welbeck/Cleverley/Hernandez whenever they featured in those games.
 
Pogue Mahone said:
Yet again, the short memories regarding Valencia's debut season are astonishing.
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What's your point here? Valencia was actually a better more consistent player than Nani up until January when Nani knocked him out of the team, obviously he had a good season and overall was the better of the 2. Last year and so far this season have been entirely different stories, though in fairness Valencias injury troubles haven't helped.

EDIT: Queue you mentioning the latter part of last season where he played well against Chelsea and Schalke.
 
Pogue Mahone said:
Disagree. It helps when they're on top of their game but we don't "need" them for anything. Rooney's by far the more important of the two but we did just fine in the first half of last season when he was woefully out of sorts. And that was before we had Young and Welbeck in the mix, while Valencia was out with a broken leg.

Does anyone seriously think we'd struggle to create/score goals with a front four picked from Berbatov, Young, Valencia, Welbeck, Hernandez, Giggs and Park?

Of course, continuing to play Nani and Rooney when they're out of form (although I think Rooney was a lot closer to his best against Swansea than Nani was) definitely harms our attacking football. The problem isn't because we need them to play well, mind you, it's the negative effect of them playing badly.
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You took it too literally. Of course we can still win games without them. We did beat swansea without either of really performing anywhere near as well as they can. But in general, to perform close to your best as an attacking unit you need your best two attacking players to click. It's not a rule but it will most likely be the case imo. Obviously the 'best two' isn't constant either. But right now, were most dependant on these two.

It's like how vidic completely lifts our level defensively. Nani in terms of direct attacking play and rooney in the multiple things he brings to the table, take our attack up a few gears. Obviously the others would still win games for us if these two were out.
 
Varun_Utd said:
''Need'' is perhaps a tad too strong a word but the sentiments are spot on. We dont look half the side we are in Rooney's absence. he's our main man and quite comfortably our best striker which is why we will never be as big a threat in his absence. His poor form at the start of last season coincided with berba's rich vein of goals, which is why we didnt really suffer. if his form goes to the cleaners now like it last time around, we'l be hard pressed in the attacking third imo.

Regarding the rest of the post, yes, we would quite clearly find it much more difficult to create and score goals in the absence of rooney and nani. they are quite comfortably our best attackers, any team would suffer if its main 2 front men went missing. we look devoid of creativity now when they're off form for a reason. Only giggsy of the players you mentioned is creative consistently and he's 38. the others havent really proven themselves to be creative outlets for us over a stretch of time. Also, only hernandez is the one who has proved capable of hitting the back of the net on a consistent basis. Even he needs good service to deliver.
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Exactly.
 
Pogue Mahone said:
Ditto Rooney. Ditto Welbeck/Cleverley/Hernandez whenever they featured in those games.
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I totally disagree with that. Hernandez has been effective even when the team has been poor of late. Rooney has also put in a few good performances when the rest of the team have been crap (particularly a couple of games after Chelsea). Welbeck also did not feature for half of the games I just mentioned.
 
You're looking for a pattern that's not there IMO. In games against teams playing badly our attacking players have all shone. In tougher games, there's been fewer good performances. That's it really. Hardly surprising.
 
Pogue Mahone said:
You're looking for a pattern that's not there IMO. In games against teams playing badly our attacking players have all shone. In tougher games, there's been fewer good performances. That's it really. Hardly surprising.
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That's a foolish opinion, given that our recent crappy form has been against: Basel at home, Norwich at home, Otelul away, City at home, Everton away, Otelul at home, Sunderland at home & Swansea away. In terms of a run of fixtures that is very favourable (City at home and Everton away on paper being the exceptions).

Our good run of results was against: City, Spurs at home, Arsenal at home, Bolton away, Chelsea at home and arguably Stoke away.

I know you are going to say that all of the second teams were out of form, but an out of form Arsenal, Spurs, Chelsea and City are still far superior teams to Sunderland, Swansea, Norwich and Otelul.

The team started the season very well, however you spin it.
 
Nah, Swansea away were a far tougher nut to crack than woefully out of form Arsenal/Spurs/Chelsea teams at Old Trafford.

feck it, Chelsea still can't defend for shite.

The one fixture that stands out as a game we made tougher than it should have been was Norwich at OT. They still defended better than arsenal/chelsea did, mind you.
 
Pogue Mahone said:
Nah, Swansea away were a far tougher nut to crack than woefully out of form Arsenal/Spurs/Chelsea teams at Old Trafford.

feck it, Chelsea still can't defend for shite.
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In that case we've been shit all season...

Our football in those fixtures in my opinion was incredibly fluid, we moved the ball from defence to attack quickly and effectively with bags of creativity, particularly from Rooney, Nani, Young, Cleverley and Anderson.

Swansea were mediocre against us, Sunderland were shit, as were Basel, as were Otelul x 2 and as were Norwich. All games we have been lucky to either win or draw. Anyone can see we have been awful since October.
 
Eh? Of course we haven't been shit all season. Our points total is one of the best we've ever had at this point. How on earth is that shit?!

We started with a run of very easy fixtures though. Far easier than they looked on paper. We defended badly but were fortunate to play teams that defended even worse. That much is obvious with hindsight (it was obvious at the time too tbh)

Since the City game we'e got the balance a bit better but have lost something going forwards. We've been up against better organised defences too.

None of this has anything to do with us being somehow massively reliant on Nani.
 
finneh said:
In that case we've been shit all season...

Our football in those fixtures in my opinion was incredibly fluid, we moved the ball from defence to attack quickly and effectively with bags of creativity, particularly from Rooney, Nani, Young, Cleverley and Anderson.

Swansea were mediocre against us, Sunderland were shit, as were Basel, as were Otelul x 2 and as were Norwich. All games we have been lucky to either win or draw. Anyone can see we have been awful since October.
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Nonsense. Apart from Basel, who were excellent on the night, We deserved every single one of those results... You could possibly argue Norwich deserved a point (though I would certainly say we were good for that win) but could you really honestly tell me that Swansea, Sunderland and Otelul deserved anything from their games against us??
 
After a 6-1 drubbing at Home, 5 consecutive clean sheets is not to be sniffed at, it's no accident either.

The goals will start to flow again soon enough.
 
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