Negativity about RVP

Commadus said:
We strengthened in area we didnt need just like when we bought Berbatov.

With all these strikers is fergie going to stick to 4-4-2 - if so then he will be found out once again in the Champions League.

Hernandez and Welbeck might as well accept they will be playing in the Carling Cup from now on.

So far we have not strengthened the fullback areas or in central midfield.

He's a good player but just like when we signed Berba he isn't the player we need.
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We don't need to play a 442 to get the best out of a RVP/Rooney partnership since neither are exclusively out and out strikers. We can use the 4411 / 4231 formation that was used many a times last season.

This was posted on another site with one particularly attacking lineup we can use.

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RVP and Kagawa offer us fluidity across both top lines. RVP and Rooney can switch effortlessly as can Rooney / Nani and Kagawa. This can potentially cause all kinds of problems especially if we have Cleverely making intelligent runs into the box.

The question however is can our midfield remain strong on the counter attacks or when the opposition overloads the midfield?
 
I, for one, am chuffed to bits with this signing. 12 months ago I remember having a conversation with a mate about who the one person I would bring to the club would be (ignoring Ronaldo and Messi). I mentioned RvP and now, after an incredible 12 months of form, he's here.

I can understand the midfield and LB concerns, however. But I think we have to accept that the signing of RvP has not resulted in our inability to sign another player. There is no evidence to suggest that is how SAF has to operate in the transfer market and I see no reason why that would be the case now. SAF clearly has faith in the fitness of his midfielders and, if all remain relatively fit this season then we have some great midfield options.

The loaning out of Fabio with no apparent back-up for Evra is odd, though. I imagine that will be our next, and last, action in this transfer window.
 
Echoes of the Berbatov signing?

We signed Berbatov in 2008 and Ronaldo was sold in 2009.
Now we sign RVP in 2012 and Nani to be solf in 2013 as it looks like we have some real issues with him not signing his new contract.
 
Cina said:
Yeah, said so himself, as I recall he wants to go back on loan to his old club.
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He said he would like to get in the first team , but if the club wanted to loan him out he would prefer his old club.
 
Devilton said:
We don't need to play a 442 to get the best out of a RVP/Rooney partnership since neither are exclusively out and out strikers. We can use the 4411 / 4241 formation that was used many a times last season.

This was posted on another site with one particularly attacking lineup we can use.

160812102434.png


RVP and Kagawa offer us fluidity across both top lines. RVP and Rooney can switch effortlessly as can Rooney / Nani and Kagawa. This can potentially cause all kinds of problems especially if we have Cleverely making intelligent runs into the box.

The question however is can our midfield remain strong on the counter attacks or when the opposition overloads the midfield?
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Why is Valencia at rightback? Shouldn't Rafale play there?

Kagawa and Nani will prefer to drift inside so we are going to get clogged up in the central areas. Rooney has shown his best position is that of playing the forward line - the position that VPS excels in. Sure Rooney and Vps can play deeper but it seems like the Berba/Rooney combination that failed to gel.
 
Commadus said:
We strengthened in area we didnt need just like when we bought Berbatov.

With all these strikers is fergie going to stick to 4-4-2 - if so then he will be found out once again in the Champions League.

Hernandez and Welbeck might as well accept they will be playing in the Carling Cup from now on.

So far we have not strengthened the fullback areas or in central midfield.

He's a good player but just like when we signed Berba he isn't the player we need.
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You think RvP and Rooney are going to play a full 90 minutes in every Premiership, CL and FA Cup fixture this season? Yeah, Welbz and Hernandez may not start as many games but they will still accumulate a good amount of appearances this season.

It's squad rotation and SAF is the master. Of all the concerns we have regarding SAF, man-management and squad rotation should be the least of them. Nobody in the World is better at keeping a squad of players happy whilst winning games.
 
Devilton said:
We don't need to play a 442 to get the best out of a RVP/Rooney partnership since neither are exclusively out and out strikers. We can use the 4411 / 4241 formation that was used many a times last season.

This was posted on another site with one particularly attacking lineup we can use.

160812102434.png


RVP and Kagawa offer us fluidity across both top lines. RVP and Rooney can switch effortlessly as can Rooney / Nani and Kagawa. This can potentially cause all kinds of problems especially if we have Cleverely making intelligent runs into the box.

The question however is can our midfield remain strong on the counter attacks or when the opposition overloads the midfield?
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:O. It's a decent lineup, but my qualm is that Rooney isn't exactly running backwards much anymore, and I doubt RvP will either.

Both can play as #10's behind a striker, but neither will really help out much defensively; either Rooney's been instructed not to, or just isn't capable of doing it for a whole season; ergo, I'd really like to see Kagawa play lots of CAM when one of RvP/Rooney aren't playing.

He'll add a lot more defensively, as he has a good work rate, and offers a different threat as well.

However, Rooney and RvP for a lot of games next season, will be mindblowing. RvP describes himself as a '#9.5' i.e. he can play both roles. Rooney certainly can play as the front man or the man just behind; it'll be amazing. Each of them teeing each other up, and the left and right foot combination will be great. They can 1-2 to their better foot! :D
 
The forum is full of negative tossers these days, which takes out all the enjoyment of posting really.
 
Imagine the negativity if we signed Messi... "oh but Hernandez wont get games and it wont help Welbeck to progress either..."
 
acrebo said:
You think RvP and Rooney are going to play a full 90 minutes in every Premiership, CL and FA Cup fixture this season? Yeah, Welbz and Hernandez may not start as many games but they will still accumulate a good amount of appearances this season.

It's squad rotation and SAF is the master. Of all the concerns we have regarding SAF, man-management and squad rotation should be the least of them. Nobody in the World is better at keeping a squad of players happy whilst winning games.
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SAF admitted himself he tinkered too much with the squad roation in the champions league campaign.

We are seriously weak in the fullback positions and we are reliant on three midfielders who have an injury record - cleverly, anderson, fletcher, two are defying age - Scholes, Giggs and one who is so important any injury to him could be as importantly felt as vidic loss - ie Carrick.

SAF always been a gambler.
 
My only worry was the size of the fee, in relation to his age and previous injury concerns. That he played a full season last year is encouraging if he can steer clear of injuries great, however our track record with our own medical department isn't great so I seeing the £24m initial fee I felt it was a big gamble.

I had long held the view that £15m would be the price we should pay for him, now that was low, but to me as good as he is, it's was a gamble that we can get further full seasons out of him. Now if the Telegraph's report is to be believed that we are going to pay £15m down flat, and then add on's up to £22m I think that is a fair compormise, as of course it's down to how he plays, what he helps us win etc.

As a player RVP is a fine player, I think the time the transfer's gone took to get sorted has tempered my reaction to the news it's been agreed, it's no shock, and that we've got another excellent player in the squad isn't something a kin to the shcok and suprise we got when the news broke about say Cantona's or Veron's move.

If he scores the goals, that help us win back the league and other cups over the next few years, I think we'll all forget about the transfer fee.
 
Given our attacking options now, I don't see why people should be too concerned about the midfield. It's still a pretty good midfield, one of the best in the league. Carrick is a quality player, as is kagawa who did really well there against Hannover. Who's to say that he couldn't learn to be just as effective there as he is in attacking mid?
We've got plenty of options for 2 positions now, sure scholes and giggs are old but they can still do a good job there, and we can hope cleverley and Anderson overcome their injury problems. If they don't get over their injury problems then we can still play kagawa there, so after this I'm not too worried about our midfield right now.

Also for some people worried about him not loving the club or playing for one of our rivals for so long, it's football. It's their job, not some fecking soap opera where they have to love the club they play for. Very rarely you will get that these days, apart from the players that come through our youth.
 
I'd be more excited if we had signed either a CM and a LB, because those are the areas I'm worried about and an injury or 2 could prove devastating in those areas, it's not that I don't like the basic idea of Van Persie playing for United, but it's because the obvious needs are being displaced in favor of a signing like this.
 
Hectic said:
Yes we do, but still how can there be negativity over such a high calibre player? He would get into any team in the world! It's quite exciting.
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I'm excited but it just seems pointless, it's like Barca potentially buying Song now. What could they possibly need him for? Obviously RvP will improve us, but he's improving the area we are the most well stocked in.
 
Its actually a bit mad, this place should be absolutely buzzing at the moment, We've just signed Robin Van Persie ffs!! A few years ago that would have sent this place into complete meltdown! Yet right now, the atmosphere seems to be one of 'meh'...Add to that we've signed another fantastic young talent in Kagawa, as well as two more potentially fantastic players in Henriquez and Powell...And not only that, we've beaten off competition from other big clubs for all four of those players.

I'm usually a glass half empty kind of a guy, but all this has got me completely buzzing!
 
gza the genius said:
I'm excited but it just seems pointless, it's like Barca potentially buying Song now. What could they possibly need him for? Obviously RvP will improve us, but he's improving the area we are the most well stocked in.
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Rooney
Welbeck
Hernandez

That would be it if we didn't sign RVP. One injury to Rooney and we would be in huge trouble. How is that well stocked?
 
gza the genius said:
I'm excited but it just seems pointless, it's like Barca potentially buying Song now. What could they possibly need him for? Obviously RvP will improve us, but he's improving the area we are the most well stocked in.
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We're not well stocked...that's the whole point.
 
If Rooney gets injured we play Kagawa behind Welbeck with chicharito on the bench. Kagawa isn't a striker but he occupies the role that a striker would essentially giving us 4 options. If we intend to play Kagawa in his best postion, and the role Sir Alex has claimed he purchased him for, you typically see a 451 or 4231. Real Madrid are a good example of this, last season they only had two main strikers, Benzema and Higuain an it worked out pretty well for them.
 
Devilton said:
Yup. There was even one who wanted to get rid of Vidic...started a disastrous thread about it and everything. :smirk:
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Everyone makes mistakes. You, however is a constant source of retardedness and idiocy here. Deriding Smalling and Hernandez signings as value, how's that turned out.

Not a surprise to see you finding negatives in this deal.
 
Moaning is one of the many fun things about following football.

Even those who don't moan about the football enjoy moaning about other people moaning about the football.

There's positives and negatives about the RVP deal. He's a great player who was in the form of his life until the Euros and might give us the best strike partnership in the world (unless Fergie plays Wayne on the left wing again, which would be awful). He's also a player who's unlikely to perform at that level for many years. And his transfer won't do anything about the midfield-shaped elephant in the room.
 
If Kagawa can be effective in a two-man midfield or if Powell can contribute, then CM should be alright where number of bodies and creativity are concerned.

The only negative for me would be an injury/loss of form with Evra. The return of Vidic frees up Evans to play at LB, but a natural fullback who can join in with the free-flowing attack is preferable.

I wouldn't be surprised if a LB isn't our last piece of transfer business this summer.
 
gza the genius said:
If Rooney gets injured we play Kagawa behind Welbeck with chicharito on the bench. Kagawa isn't a striker but he occupies the role that a striker would essentially giving us 4 options. If we intend to play Kagawa in his best postion, and the role Sir Alex has claimed he purchased him for, you typically see a 451 or 4231. Real Madrid are a good example of this, last season they only had two main strikers, Benzema and Higuain an it worked out pretty well for them.
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And now look, if Rooney gets injured, we have the possibility of playing RVP, or Welbeck, Or Kagawa, or Hernandez...

See, more options, more quality players, more chances of winning the league = Happy Days! :D
 
gza the genius said:
I'm excited but it just seems pointless, it's like Barca potentially buying Song now. What could they possibly need him for? Obviously RvP will improve us, but he's improving the area we are the most well stocked in.
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It's certainly not pointless, look at what we lost last season to.....Goal Difference. I know this wasn't our main problem, obviously it was the defence which was abnormally bad and unlucky, but it certainly helps. I also don't reckon this was a choice between RVP and a midfielder, more about reacting to a very good oppertunity. Yes, we do have a decent amount of strikers, but remove Berbatov from the equation and there are three players left, factor in an injury to Wayne, and we have just Hernandez and Welbeck. That's not a partnership we can rely on. What we get from this is the strongest strike force in the league, and it means we can rotate our strikers and keep them fresh. It means Hernandez and Welbeck get to spend some time alongside the leagues best strikers and learn from them, as well as introducing real competition to the area which all three current strikers could use.
 
Am I the only one who think we've got it in fairly good price? Definitely rank among top 5 striker in the world. A 27 year old Van Persie would definitely worth over 40m.
 
Devilton said:
Cleverely featured in 15 games last season though, while Welbeck played 40 and Hernandez was in 35. Cleverely still got to prove he can remain fit and be a real influence in midfield, something our strikers have done in the last two years.

I'm not arguing there's a disconnect...but anyone who says we don't need a CM because we have Cleverely needs to have a bit of a rethink.
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OGkush said:
I'd be more excited if we had signed either a CM and a LB, because those are the areas I'm worried about and an injury or 2 could prove devastating in those areas, it's not that I don't like the basic idea of Van Persie playing for United, but it's because the obvious needs are being displaced in favor of a signing like this.
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Name the people you think we should have gone after? Personally I dont see who we should have gone after that would fit us perfectly in both of those roles.

Theres feck all decent left backs out there who are young bar Abala and Jordi Alba and neither are within our grasp. Jordi was snapped up in a flash by Barca and Alaba would cost a bomb and chances are Bayeern won flog him neither.
 
KM said:
Everyone makes mistakes. You, however is a constant source of retardedness and idiocy here. Deriding Smalling and Hernandez signings as value, how's that turned out.

Not a surprise to see you finding negatives in this deal.
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You wanted to sell Vidic. You made a thread about it like it was a great idea.

You're forever going to be remembered as that guy. If there's a king of retards, you sit right next to him giving him advice.

:lol:
 
We lost on goal difference while scoring something like the 2nd most goals we've ever scored in the league. Scoring wasn't our problem. Pointless probably wasn't the right word, unneccesary might be a little better even if it is very similar in meaning.

I agree with the idea of competition, I said in another thread that Rooney should finally no longer be exempt from being subbed because of this and that can definitely be a good thing for him. I still just don't see it as an area that needed added to. I don't think I've been particularly negative about this transfer, but I'm certainly not as excited as a lot of others seem to be. I'm sure Sir Alex has a plan and when the season starts and we're scoring goals galore all my reservations will be gone.
 
Yeah it's a rarely mentioned fact but goal difference is actually affected by how many you let in as well as how many you score. If we'd had more than one defensive midfielder at the club we might have won the league just as much as if we'd had RVP.

KanieKaned said:
Name the people you think we should have gone after?
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It's not up to him, it's up to the staff

Maybe as you say there's a shortage of good left-backs out there, but I doubt there are none better than Evra's current stand-in, Mr. Invisible.
 
KanieKaned said:
Name the people you think we should have gone after? Personally I dont see who we should have gone after that would fit us perfectly in both of those roles.

Theres feck all decent left backs out there who are young bar Abala and Jordi Alba and neither are within our grasp. Jordi was snapped up in a flash by Barca and Alaba would cost a bomb and chances are Bayeern won flog him neither.
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We could have started by not sending Fabio out on loan.

I know he needs the games, but can we honestly go into a season with just Evra as our true left back. I mean, we know Evans can play the position but he offers us absolutely nothing going forward. There might not be any viable world class left back options but we can't go into a full season with just Evra as the left back. He already plays WAY too many games a season and it's clear his performances have been effected. It's madness to not have adequate cover for him.
 
I seem to remember when City were linked with RVP, the general consensus seemed to be 'feck! he's gonna make them invincible'...Yet, when we actually go and sign him, he's too old, not worth the money, too injury prone etc etc

It seems to have gotten to a stage on this place, where no matter what, United can do nothing right in some people's eyes. Everything has a negative spin on it.
 
RedRonaldo said:
Am I the only one who think we've got it in fairly good price? Definitely rank among top 5 striker in the world. A 27 year old Van Persie would definitely worth over 40m.
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And a 29 year old RVP would be worth...?

gza the genius said:
We lost on goal difference while scoring something like the 2nd most goals we've ever scored in the league. Scoring wasn't our problem. Pointless probably wasn't the right word, unneccesary might be a little better even if it is very similar in meaning.
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Very good point, something a lot of folks seem to be ignoring.
 
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