New Gillette ad

Why do people who are obviously not left-wing always feel the need to say "and I'm fairly left-wing on other topics". We all know it's bs.

As for this ad, how can someone get mad at something so harmless?
 
Cheesy said:
Again...if you don't think that social circumstances (like poverty) are somewhat responsible for the figures here, then what do you think? Do you believe that black people are inherently more likely to commit sexual assault? Or would you concede that the circumstances an individual grows up in and the education he receives is likely to impact his/her later behaviour?
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I do not know, and neither do you. I don't live in the US so I am not too bothered actually.

I do however have the official statistics for crime divided by country background and type of crime for Norway, we can discuss those if you like? I'll give you a teaser though, Norwegians are not overrepresented.
 
SwansonsTache said:
I do not know, and neither do you. I don't live in the US so I am not too bothered actually.

I do however have the official statistics for crime divided by country background and type of crime for Norway, we can discuss those if you like? I'll give you a teaser though, Norwegians are not overrepresented.
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No of course not, very convenient of you to put out those figures and then not want to discuss them.

I'm not sure what point you're trying to make in regards to Norway though? Again, if you aren't interested in the argument that poverty and a lack of education contribute to crimes (of all natures) then the only other conclusion in a case like this is that you believe it's the racial makeup of the individuals involved.

Which isn't me trying to throw the "Ha, racist!" card at you just to be annoying. It's me coming to the conclusion that if you don't believe things like education and poverty contribute to this then the logical conclusion is that you believe it's down to race.

The 'culture' argument was used on the previous page but again culture is inherently tied to social circumstances and the circumstances an individual is raised in, and can be quite arbitrary anyway.
 
SwansonsTache said:
I really won't spend my Saturday discussing with you, but I just wanted to point out that there is a huge disparity when it comes to sex crimes as well, something that can't be equated to poverty. *

* https://www.ncjrs.gov/App/Publications/abstract.aspx?ID=96748
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The study is 23 years old, and unless you were about to suggest that it's because they're black, I don't really see how it refutes the idea that poverty and shitty circumstances contribute to crime rates in general.
 
maniak said:
We all know it's bs.
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Ah, do you now? If you read my posts in the CE forum on economic policies you will see that I am pro the Norwegian social democracy, and gladly pay my extortionate 43% tax to have the sort of society we have instead of the shite they have in the US currently.

Do not let reality come in the way of what you know for a fact that is bs though.
 
Cheesy said:
'Culture' is quite arbitrary though - unless you think black Americans can all fit into one, homogenised black culture across the entire country. The culture of groups of people is undoubtedly going to be informed by the circumstances in which those people grow up and the world around them. In America black people have faced systemic discrimination for centuries to the point where it's only a couple of generations ago they were recognised as being equal to white people. If you're systematically discriminated against you're going to find yourself in a position of poverty. If you're in poverty, you're not going to get a good education, or you're much more unlikely to. If you don't get a good education, you're much less likely to have been taught the wrongs of sexual assault.

Obviously that's not to excuse those who have committed assault because it's abhorrent whatever way you look at it. But at the same time it's fairly clear that the environment an individual grows up in is likely to impact their eventual actions as an adult to a certain extent. And again, if you don't believe that social circumstances are likely to skew crime figures at all in cases like this, then it seems fairly clear you're arguing that their racial makeup is what's responsible. Which would make you a racist.
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I think the strong links you're imagining between poverty and non-financially-motivated crimes are very tenuous. There's no doubt that poverty is a factor in a lot of crime across the board, but you can say that about every one of societies ills, including racism and sexism.

A lot of black culture in America looks pretty damn misogynistic. Misogyny and crimes against women in the middle east don't look very different between countries with wildly disparate wealth. Japan and China are also both very misogynistic cultures when you compare them to the West.
 
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SwansonsTache said:
Ah, do you now? If you read my posts in the CE forum on economic policies you will see that I am pro the Norwegian social democracy, and gladly pay my extortionate 43% tax to have the sort of society we have instead of the shite they have in the US currently.

Do not let reality come in the way of what you know for a fact that is bs though.
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I won't let your attempts to sound left-wing fool me, don't worry.
 
maniak said:
Why do people who are obviously not left-wing always feel the need to say "and I'm fairly left-wing on other topics". We all know it's bs.
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It's not. For some reason, feminists find it hard to comprehend how people who otherwise have a fairly centrist/left leaning political view could dislike them so much. That's why you label everyone who dislikes you as "alt-right trolls" so you don't have to take their arguments seriously. ;)
 
maniak said:
I won't let your attempts to sound left-wing fool me, don't worry.
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I am not left-wing at all, I would never even entertain the idea. You are "discussing" what you don't understand though, since the support of the welfare state and the social democracy is rooted both on the left and right in Norway. Economically and socially the sentrist version of the Democrats would likely be the most right-wing and conservative party in Norway.

But again, I digress with actual facts. I will let you get back to the name calling.
 
Infordin said:
It's not. For some reason, feminists find it hard to comprehend how people who otherwise have a fairly centrist/left leaning political view could dislike them so much. That's why you label everyone who dislikes you as "alt-right trolls" so you don't have to take their arguments seriously. ;)
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You don't need to label anyone anything to disregard "feminism is a mental disorder" as a serious argument.
 
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Infordin said:
It's not. For some reason, feminists find it hard to comprehend how people who otherwise have a fairly centrist/left leaning political view could dislike them so much. That's why you label everyone who dislikes you as "alt-right trolls" so you don't have to take their arguments seriously. ;)
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You will notice I haven't labeled anyone.
 
hobbers said:
I think the strong links you're imagining between poverty and non-financially-related crimes are very tenuous. I mean no doubt poverty is a factor in a lot of crime across the board, but you can say that about every one of societies ills, including racism and sexism.

A lot of black culture in America looks pretty damn misogynistic. Misogyny and crimes against women in the middle east don't look very different between countries with wildly disparate wealth. Japan and China are also both very misogynistic cultures when you compare them to the West.
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It's not poverty alone - it's the fact that poverty contributes to a lack of education. I'd argue that sexism and racism is absolutely going to be informed by a lack of education. If I'm less racist and sexist than my ancestors it's because I was brought up in a world where it was regularly reinforced to me that those things aren't okay. Had I been brought up 100 years ago there's a reasonable chance I'd have been a lot more susceptible to racism and sexism to some degree because they were more tolerated back then.

Culture again is quite arbitrary and widely dispersed when you're referring to an entire race. In America black people have systematically mistreated for centuries and have therefore had a significant disadvantage when it comes to education. That lack of education and the injustices they've suffered are going to inherently factor into the various cultures in which black people in America live now. Likewise, if you're not then educated that it isn't okay to mistreat women then you're probably going to be more likely to mistreat women.

And regarding your last point, I'd argue there are different forms of misogyny/sexism. There will be sexists who think it's okay to just universally mistreat/assault women - but you'll also get many people with misogynistic views who wouldn't necessarily ever harm women but who hold very patronising/condescending views as to their place in the world and what their role should be. Sexism isn't necessarily a simple thing that's espoused in one way and one way alone.
 
SwansonsTache said:
I am not left-wing at all, I would never even entertain the idea. You are "discussing" what you don't understand though, since the support of the welfare state and the social democracy is rooted both on the left and right in Norway. Economically and socially the sentrist version of the Democrats would likely be the most right-wing and conservative party in Norway.
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If you are not left-wing and don't claim to be so, then why did you reply to my post? It was obviously not aimed at you.
 
maniak said:
If you are not left-wing and don't claim to be so, then why did you reply to my post? It was obviously not aimed at you.
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I responded to you because you claimed something which is not factually correct.
 
Infordin said:
It's not. For some reason, feminists find it hard to comprehend how people who otherwise have a fairly centrist/left leaning political view could dislike them so much. That's why you label everyone who dislikes you as "alt-right trolls" so you don't have to take their arguments seriously. ;)
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Going by your posts, the reason for disliking feminists seems to be complete ignorance.
 
Halftrack said:
Going by your posts, the reason for disliking feminists seems to be complete ignorance.
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Going by your post, you seem to excuse every example of poor behaviour by feminists as "they are a tiny minority".

A movement is defined by its people. When a feminist group in Toronto pull the firealarm and mass protest a meeting where men discuss why the male suicide rate is so high, they define the movement.
 
Infordin said:
Going by your post, you seem to excuse every example of poor behaviour by feminists as "they are a tiny minority".

A movement is defined by its people. When a feminist group in Toronto pull the firealarm and mass protest a meeting where men discuss why the male suicide rate is so high, they define the movement.
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I’m not sure this is true. Regardless of what you think of mainstream feminism, I don’t think you can say the extremists are able to speak for the whole group, since they haven’t been appointed to do so. No-one in real life takes them seriously anyway tbh, so it definitely seems to be an online minority screaming very loud.
 
Infordin said:
Going by your post, you seem to excuse every example of poor behaviour by feminists as "they are a tiny minority".

A movement is defined by its people. When a feminist group in Toronto pull the firealarm and mass protest a meeting where men discuss why the male suicide rate is so high, they define the movement.
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Nah, I mostly took issue with how hilariously ignorant your post was. It's like you've gotten all your info on feminism from incels, MRAs and MGTOWs.

With your "a minority defines the whole" view, I take it you agree that men are sexist pigs, and calling them out as such is fair? Because you're not a hypocrite, are you? Would be weird to attack someone else for what you perceive as hypocrisy, if you're guilty of the same.
 
Infordin said:
Going by your post, you seem to excuse every example of poor behaviour by feminists as "they are a tiny minority".

A movement is defined by its people. When a feminist group in Toronto pull the firealarm and mass protest a meeting where men discuss why the male suicide rate is so high, they define the movement.
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You're defining a movement by a portion of its people though. Which is clearly quite a silly thing to do when that portion is very small. The reality is that most people who describe themselves as feminists aren't like that. Hell, most feminists aren't part of "feminist groups" in the first place. They're just normal, unremarkable people you wouldn't realise are feminists unless the subject came up.

This comes across as the sort of opinion someone would have if their entire experience of interacting with feminisim has happened online.
 
Halftrack said:
With your "a minority defines the whole" view
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I will repeat what I said previously:

"I find it difficult to differentiate extremist feminists from normal feminists, since normal feminists regularly defend the actions of extremist feminists and rarely criticize them. When extremist feminists ban GTA 5 or ban grid girls, the normal feminists usually defend them."

Why should I differentiate between normal feminists and extremist feminists, when they themselves don't/can't even do it?
 
Infordin said:
I will repeat what I said previously:

"I find it difficult to differentiate extremist feminists from normal feminists, since normal feminists regularly defend the actions of extremist feminists and rarely criticize them. When extremist feminists ban GTA 5 or ban grid girls, the normal feminists usually defend them."

Why should I differentiate between normal feminists and extremist feminists, when they themselves don't/can't even do it?
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oh man they banned gta 5, a game i never heard of thanks to these darn feminists, they'll be cutting our dicks off next
 
Silva said:
oh man they banned gta 5, they'll be cutting out dicks off next
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You can take it lightly if you want, but this tells you a lot about cancerous feminist mentality.

"I don't like this form of media, therefore it must be banned"

If you don't like something, don't consume it. But that's not enough for feminists: they don't want anyone to enjoy it.
 
Infordin said:
You can take it lightly if you want, but this tells you a lot about cancerous feminist mentality.

"I don't like this form of media, therefore it must be banned"

If you don't like something, don't consume it. But that's not enough for feminists: they don't want anyone to enjoy it.
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yes, i bet these extremist feminist that signed a petition against a video game are the same people who are complaining about the current gillette ad because they really fecking hate men and manly things like that razors
 
Infordin said:
You can take it lightly if you want, but this tells you a lot about cancerous feminist mentality.
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This says a whole lot more about you than any of the examples you've cited say about feminism. Go to some MRA board somewhere and peddle your shit.
 
Halftrack said:
This says a whole lot more about you than any of the examples you've cited say about feminism. Go to some MRA board somewhere and peddle your shit.
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:lol:

How predictable. This is exactly how the majority of feminists react when presented with criticism of their movement. Angry and emotionally unstable.
 
i was always a feminist, but my eyes have been opened reading these petitions, we must pass a UN resolution and join our armies to stop women from posting on the internet
 
Infordin said:
:lol:

How predictable. This is exactly how the majority of feminists react when presented with criticism of their movement. Angry and emotionally unstable.
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What you've posted in here isn't criticism, you dolt, it's literal hatred of feminists and feminism. You have no interest in improving the movement, because you see it as inherently bad. If it walks like a duck, etc.
 
Halftrack said:
You have no interest in improving the movement, because you see it as inherently bad.
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The movement is beyond help, too many dumb and irrational people have ruined it.

On the bright side, the feminist movement is eating itself up through stupidity. They cancelled the last women's match. You know why? Because it was too white. :lol:

Although there are rumours that the real reason why it was cancelled was because of antisemitism.
 
Infordin said:
The movement is beyond help. There are too many dumb and irrational people who have ruined it.

On the bright side, the feminist movement is eating itself up through stupidity.

They cancelled the last women's match. You know why? Because it was too white. :lol:
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Something here is beyond help, but it ain't feminism.
 
SwansonsTache said:
I really won't spend my Saturday discussing with you, but I just wanted to point out that there is a huge disparity when it comes to sex crimes as well, something that can't be equated to poverty. *

* https://www.ncjrs.gov/App/Publications/abstract.aspx?ID=96748
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Do you not think history of power imbalance has something to do with this?

As in when white slave owners raped black slaves there was nothing illegal about that. During 100 years of Jim Crows do you have any idea what might happen to a black women who publicly claimed a white man raped her? She might be lucky to not be murdered.
From ancient times to modern times women from a lower social class have always been reticent to report sexual assault from men of a higher social class. Even today lets say a black hooker gets raped by a white police. Do you think she is going to report that?
 
If Gilette's aim was to start societal discussion, they've gloriously achieved it on the caf at least.

I dont see how all feminists should be held accountable for the actions of some extremists. All extremism is wrong, even if it's an extremism based on something good. That's just people taking something too far. Feminism in itself advocates equal rights for men and women. Why the feck would anyone oppose that.
 
oneniltothearsenal said:
Do you not think history of power imbalance has something to do with this?

As in when white slave owners raped black slaves there was nothing illegal about that. During 100 years of Jim Crows do you have any idea what might happen to a black women who publicly claimed a white man raped her? She might be lucky to not be murdered.
From ancient times to modern times women from a lower social class have always been reticent to report sexual assault from men of a higher social class. Even today lets say a black hooker gets raped by a white police. Do you think she is going to report that?
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I don't know why it is like that. Robberies, gangs and drugs can be explained by the social fabric in the US, where almost all social mobility has been removed and decent education isn't seen as something beneficial for the society as whole, but rather something you should or shouldn't get dependant on the economic background of your family. As usual people didn't get the point earlier and let their childish labels and name calling get in the way. The study I provided didn't say that blacks are more rapey than white people, actually that comes out pretty even between the two groups. What it did state though was that amongst whites sexual crimes are to a overwhelming degree intraracial, while for blacks it is more often interracial. This can't be fully explained by poverty and social differences such as robbery, gangs, drugs can be.

There are no clear defining reason like you can easily find when looking at the statistics for Norway, where immigrants from MENA countries are vastly overrepresented due to cultural background, with countries with the most antiquated views towards women again being overrepresented within this group (Afghanistan, Iraq and Somalia) when compared to for example Morocco, Tunis, Turkey etc.
 
KirkDuyt said:
If Gilette's aim was to start societal discussion, they've gloriously achieved it on the caf at least.

I dont see how all feminists should be held accountable for the actions of some extremists. All extremism is wrong, even if it's an extremism based on something good. That's just people taking something too far. Feminism in itself advocates equal rights for men and women. Why the feck would anyone oppose that.
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it's not extremism, they're not killing or even injuring people for fecks sake
 
Silva said:
it's not extremism, they're not killing or even injuring people for fecks sake
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Wut? I wasnt talking about a particular incident, but about the fact that the actions of an extremist dont classify the entire idea behind something as bad.

Perhaps I missed some pages in this thread and you were arguing a particular incident? The Gilette ad is obviously not extremist:lol:
 
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