Yes I know calling someone stupid for saying something stupid is stopping ''the far left'' from getting power, etc etc London elite etc etc.
Why did you bother to quote me with this ? You're just wasting both of our time
Next Labour leader - Starmer and Rayner win
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik (@Rood) is joined by CEO Duncan Drasdo and Financial Director Andy Green from the Manchester United Supporters Trust for a special episode on all things behind the scenes at Old Trafford including a brief history of MUST and their aims today, views on INEOS and Sir Jim Ratcliffe so far, and the Old Trafford regeneration.
Why did you bother to quote me with this ? You're just wasting both of our time
At least there seems to be a majority in the party without their heads up their arses.
Labour need to get their head out their arse and stop pandering to the 500k members, and instead focus on the 40m+ electorate. And for christssake stop giving interviews to Novara Media.
Put me on ignore by all means but if you post nonsense like ''Traditional'' Labour voters - You wot mate, that make us like Bongo Bongo Land then expect to be quoted.
Thanks for the links, those were good policies.
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The Daily Mail is the easily the weirdest one as it's completely different to the print version(I think, its been a very long time since I look at its printed newspaper). One half is right wing scare stories and the other half is ''famous'' women in bikinis.
Just edited my last post.
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I know I'm irritating, you could give me a poke in real life
I know I'm irritating, you could give me a poke in real life
I'm just as irritating tbh. And people say Labour supporters can't get along.
It's a question of priorities. Labour said they can do a lot of things, and inevitably they wouldn't do all of them. That basic level of mistrust in politicians is practically ubiquitous. So while they said they'd invest in nurses, police etc. they also said they'd invest in something that a large portion of people find frivolous in these circumstances, which makes people concerned they would waste time and money on that while other things suffer. They want to do those things, but they're not capable of doing them all, and they'll stretch themselves thin and create new risks.
They are perfectly legitimate concerns based on a certain set of assumptions that differ from yours. Both sets of assumptions are likely to be wrong, because of the complexity involved. Trying to deligitimise those views based on your own assumptions hardly helps the situation.
I think a key difference is that this bridge is just Boris trying to create headlines. All he's done is organised a feasibility study into it. Labour's broadband idea was actual policy if they got into power. It wasn't properly costed or subject to a proper feasibility study as far as I'm aware. It's not really an analogous situation.
£15m? What would happen if Labour had to declare bankruptcy?
Well actually Mr.Jones and his FEMA camp ideas are simply based on a certain set of assumptions that differ from yours.
Thinking a political party offering free broadband is the same as ''being like an African country'' isn't an legitimate concern, it's stupid and pretty racist.
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Well actually Mr.Jones and his FEMA camp ideas are simply based on a certain set of assumptions that differ from yours.
Thinking a political party offering free broadband is the same as ''being like an African country'' isn't an legitimate concern, it's stupid and pretty racist.
He’s likening it to the bribes that are common in African elections. I don’t think there’s anything racist about the comment.
https://edition.cnn.com/2016/09/25/africa/africa-view-election-distrust/index.html
I don't know if you genuinely only perceive the extremes or that's just an Internet culture approach to political discussions but I don't see how it achieves anything other than self gratification. Those points you're scoring are only imaginary, and in this case it's an imaginary open net.
It would save them having to declare bankruptcy when the ehrc reports?
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.in...estigation-corbyn-executive-a9153561.html?amp
Incompetence sounds better than racism I guess?
Wouldn’t the lawsuits that would cause bankruptcy have to come from members of the party. They would have to risk the *potential* bankruptcy of the party to fight the cause of making it better. Seems odd
The voter in question didn't have any legitimate concerns, even his argument that the money should be spent else where completely fell on it's arse because Labour offered more spending on police and nurses(Also shows how stupid Labours decision to pivot on crime was). His set of assumptions were just wrong, now we could talk about how he came believe the awful shite coming out of his mouth but I don't want to waste time talking how well who's to what the truth, its just you're own perspective, the world is a complex place with many moving parts, etc etc.
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You don't know what that voter's concerns were. You read one quote. In the same way your last post contained no nuance and poorly represented your views on the subject, the same assumption should exist for this person.
Their view was not that free broadband makes it like an African country. Their view was that Labour was throwing an incredible number of things out there - paid off student loans, including 16 year olds in the vote, free broadband and more. The sheer volume of "free" things being suggested made it sound like bribery to some people.
Their set of assumptions were probably wrong, and your set of assumptions were probably wrong. The evidence is pretty strong on the idea that people are terrible at making economic predictions over the long term, and so we don't know how successful Labour's policy would have been, or what challenges they would have faced. There are plenty of gaps in their funding model that may or may not have been overcome. It's entirely possible that free broadband may have been one of those big projects promised by a govt. and then not delivered on, after investing money into scoping it out and doing the initial phase of work. It happens all the time. The more things you promise, the more vulnerable you are to that.
The fact that you're unable to acknowledge the legitimacy in people's contrasting views, and that you're vulnerable to the same flaws in judgment that everyone else is, is part of the reason you find yourself banging your head against a wall. Your perception of other people being wrong and you being right, with no acknowledgement of the complexity within that assessment, turns people away from your views before the message is even delivered. And it's very common among the people you consider your tribe, who just happened to be the architects of one of the worst political performances in decades. Yet there's no recognition of a need to change that fundamental perception of the world. It's very strange.
I do a lot of work in this area and I'd be very surprised if they even got a 100k fine. It's a minor access issue, such breaches happen as long as it's a mistake and not systemic the ICO don't tend to care.
I'm more concerned that some have leaked internal issues and used it to weaponise against an opponent. No one here or in the US is learning that internal attacks between the left and the centre damage both.
It's like Labour never learns. I like all of those 10 pledges, but where is the stuff about business, the economy, rejuvinating run down parts of the country, building infrastructure?
If it was me i'd have added some pro business spin on all of them.
My add-ons to his 10 pledges.
I'd have added tax breaks for new businesses and SME's setup inside low tax business zones created in deprived parts of the country. This would encourage businesses to go to these parts of the country, create jobs, encourage small businesses to setup and give them breathing room within the first 5 years.
I'd have added a bit about removing unnessacary red tape to make help easier to get, muttered about the homeless and soldiers and talked about getting tough on benefit fraud and NHS tourism.
I'd have labelled this the green industrial revolution. Setting up new factories industries around the country (especially in deprived areas) to manufacture green technology at a large scale to become an international market leader in green-tech.
I'd have also talked about creating specialised forces to deal with counter terrorism at home and abroad and upgrading our military capability to protect our borders and national interests. Also could have blagged something about cyber forces to protect our digital frontiers.
I'd add something about private management to ensure all public own services are profit making and not a burden on the taxpayer.
None of the racists that Labour have to appeal to are going to support this. I'd have not mentioned this at all until firmly in number 10. If he must insist then he should also talk about points based systems, quicker deportation of criminals and illegals, restrict access to benefits to anyone who hasn't paid into the system for 10 years etc. Migrant worker tax.
I'm all for this one, but the people hating Tories and their media dogs always hide behind the small business owner on this one. "Workers rights will destroy shit small businesses who can't survive without exploiting their workers". Well for those shit small businesses i propose tax and NI insurance breaks for employing under 21's and also tax breaks for employing staff on mummy hours. Mummy hours is a new thing i'm proposing where employers allow mums to work 9-3 mon-friday during term times only. There are millions of jobs which could be done on these shifts, allowing mums to look after kids and be in the workforce. Also end zero hours contracts!
I don't fully understand the implications of this so that puts me in the same boat as most of the British electorate. I'd suggest throwing in something about loving the Queen though - that'll get the idiot vote. Also kick Harry and Meghan.
Great stuff, but it needs to mention the greatest downtrodden in the western world, the white man apparently. Yep - the WWC or the White "non working for multiple generations" class do need a leg up, or a pat on the back, or just to be told that there is a job for them that an illegal immigrant goat herder in an foreign land with no qualifications and no language skills who is illiterate can't steal from them.
I'd add a bit about being willing to work with government and other parties wherever possible for the wider benefit of the country, nation over party etc.
Largely the same as Corbyn there but i expect a shift once he's appointed, certainly in the language. I see the daily mail have already started linking him to the IRA and Terrorists
Yep.
Too many people are not actually reading/listening and instead throwing vitriol at people without actually trying to understand their points.
See, straight away before reading further, corporation tax. Now what's wrong with a little bit of clarification on if that will be scaling or across the board?
Because once again, it's confusing and looks like anti-small business even if it's not. What happened to learning from their mistakes?
Yeah I was disappointed with it too, just seems a continuation. Perhaps his aim is to win the leadership and then gradually change. We are a long way from the next election so we will wait and see.
Maybe you don't realise this but you are saying nothing. You've signed up to a football forum and have gone into a politics thread, entertain me with you're actual political views(Which I'm guessing are far more interesting) because honestly if I wanted to read this empty liberal west wing horse shit, I'd sign back up to Facebook.
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Increase income tax for the top 5% of earners, reverse the Tories' cuts in corporation tax and clamp down on tax avoidance, particularly of large corporations. No stepping back from our core principles.
Increase income tax for the top 5% of earners, properly scale corporation tax and tackle big business tax avoidance whilst promoting small business. No stepping back from our core principles.
It could all be so much more simple. I mean why even mention Tories at all anyway? There's no lessons been learned at all, it's all just so completely stupid it's baffling how people can't see it.
Maybe you don't realise this but you are saying nothing. You've signed up to a football forum and have gone into a politics thread, entertain me with you're actual political views(Which I'm guessing are far more interesting) because honestly if I wanted to read this empty liberal west wing horse shit, I'd sign back up to Facebook.
You can only hear what you want to hear, ultimately. So yes everything that doesn't exist within your bubble becomes muffled noise, essentially disappears into nothingness. There's nothing I can do to make you hear anything but that. The fact that you've seen this point many times before, by many kinds of people, and see that as a reason to reject it and stick even more rigidly to your own views is just evidence of that self-deception. My political views are deeply flawed. Your political views are deeply flawed. You just prefer to focus on the former, and use political memes as a shield to the latter. Thank god you dropped out of Facebook, and turned to Twitter instead. Keep fighting that revolution man.
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Far too early to be making pledges IMO. These all smack of over promising. Compare Starmer's with Blair's focused, targeted ones - designed to show Labour (a) cared about the same things voters did and (b) were couched as measurable promises.
I don't know you're political views because you won't put them forward. I've been giving you chance to but you're still doing this ''well in the end who's to say what the truth is'', saying that we both could be wrong isn't a political view, it's meaningless rubbish. Maybe this is some bizarre attempt at post modernism/time consuming shit posting that you're trying out or just the outcome of ''there is no alternative'' bug that has hit so many people over the last few decades but honestly at some point(Which we've already reached btw) you're talk about bubbles and tribe gets rather boring.
So please for both our sakes can you put forward something that resembles a political view or at least name the shape you want democracy to be.
It isn't meaningless rubbish, it's an observable fact. People have spent decades studying these things within psychology and political science, and provided evidence to elevate it beyond a simple opinion. The fact that you instantly reject it without even considering what evidence might support it, never mind go in active search of the evidence, is the whole reason you end up in these discussions where you think the other person is an idiot, simply because they hold a different view.
That's all I was responding to. You think they're an idiot for the wrong reasons, what angers you about these people is mostly your imagination, and it's really obvious from the outside looking in. That's far more important than someone's perception about the validity of free broadband, and if you stepped back from that position you would see that too, which can ultimately only help your political objectives. But political memes are easier, and it's simpler to see views outside your bubble as boring rather than challenging, so here we are. Having a political discussion with you would consist of a lot of anger and memes, despite us holding very similar views on many things, and I find that...boring. So we can leave it there.
Why does this keep happening man?
Cheers for wasting my time. Also jew who disagrees with you = Corbyn crank, nice one mate really good work you've done there.
I like to try every now and again but yeah your were right. Complete waste of time.
Cheers for the wasted time.
Sweet Square said:
Sweet Square said:
That's the allure of the bubble. Everyone inside it talks about the things you want to talk about, and clearly have the right set of priorities. Outside of that bubble everything is obscured and muffled, so they either look like a monster or just say incomprehensible words of nothingness. You used to have to go out of your way to create an environment like that, but the way the Internet world works currently, that's essentially the default, and you have to actively step outside it.