Yeah. This is ALL Ole. Never mind that we were shit for long stretches at the last several years of Sir Alex's reign. Yes, I'm aware that we won the league his last year. Leicester won the league too, shortly thereafter. Ole is a symptom of a much deeper degree of mediocrity that we can't continue to tolerate. What's the point of continuing to bring in managers to mask over the sins and shortcomings of shit owners and management? F the Glazers. F Eddie (not Eddie the 'ead. He's fine, for a Hammers fan).
Next United manager 2020/21 edition
- Thread starter soapythecat
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik (@Rood) is joined by CEO Duncan Drasdo and Financial Director Andy Green from the Manchester United Supporters Trust for a special episode on all things behind the scenes at Old Trafford including a brief history of MUST and their aims today, views on INEOS and Sir Jim Ratcliffe so far, and the Old Trafford regeneration.
What we also have to remember is we have to spend money in 1/2 windows not over 5/6 windows.
City and Liverpool did that, they spent money, improved spent money improved and added the finishing touches.
City done it in 1/ 2 windows
Liverpool done it in 2/3 windows
We get top 4 stop spending, then we are crap and find another position we have to fill before we have filled holes.
The board do not trust the managers when it is our recruitment team letting the managers down. Overspending on players, getting the wrong players in.
Maguire, AWB, Donny, are all average players and they cost us £160m.
If tempraemnt is his biggest issue then our owners will surely drive him mad within a year. They’ll make an already difficult job harder than it needs to be like with every other manager we’ve had since they arrived. if they wouldn’t fully listen to Jose LVG or Ole and get them what they need to finish their teams even on a superficial level then why would they change for Nagelsmann?
Remember value in the market with Fergie? Remember the non existent rebuild post Ronaldo? That’s how they backed the GOAT. Without anyone to stop them these are the same guys that thought the crocked Bastian and Falcao were still supposedly able take us back to the top. That’s either just gross stupidity or hoodwinking the fans who like big names but the players are on their last legs, beyond that in both cases above. We literally take the piss out of Inter for doing the same with our players but in an easier league. The club got those players for free or on the cheap but paying massive wages. history repeats itself with the Cavani (who has been surprisingly good and refreshingly hard working) and Matic deals last summer and the Mata and Jones deals the year before. They’d rather do that than spend on a fee and plan long term which just makes no sense given what these older guys are on and how little they contribute on the pitch over the length of their deals. Why not just get rid of mata Jones and Matic and replace with one important first team player? It’s club policy that why.
They made the declining Sanchez the highest paid player in the league by far and then paid him to leave. Same with Jose within 6 months. DDGs contract is a running joke at this stage. Joel Glazer also supposedly compared Martial to Pele and wouldn’t sell him when Jose wanted to move him on and he walks around up front to this day. That’s the level of stupidity or naivety if you want to be nice, that you’re up against. changing the manager every year just deflects the attention away from the fact that they are incompetent and will neither lead nor follow.
then when they actually decide to spend proper money it turns into a 2 year circus trying to do a ‘good’ deal. Maguire, Bruno. Sancho? Or they somehow manage to buy players that don’t even want to be here after a year or two. Lukaku Pogba Di Maria.
what happens when the new manager tells Rashford and Martial to run and press and they just don’t do what he needs. no matter what he tries nothing works but the owners won’t buy any competition or even consider a sale? It’s not like he hasn’t given them a chance but it’s just not working. That’s him screwed. It’s not just the wildly differing managers that have been failing us here over the post Fergie years. The owners have to shoulder a lot of the blame and switching managers and styles every year isn’t going to make our players work any harder or see a major upturn. The mental weakeness in the squad remains and In fact it’s likely to have the opposite effect and galvanise the players while they survive yet another manager and gear up for another “rebuild” it’s just flawed to the very core. Rinse and repeat.
Maybe a new manager is the answer but at the very least the owners need to set a budget and leave the team alone from now on and I can’t see that happening.
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The Glazers and Woodward aren’t going anywhere though. So the question is, do we compound that by sticking with a manager out of his depth? How do we benefit from doing that?
No one said it's "ALL Ole". I love people inventing narratives then replying on them.
What is this obsession with getting old players to be a manager? how is it of any benefit?
Let's get a coach that has actually qualified and built his way up through good performance, rather than his mate handing it to him on a plate.
So rather than Nagelsmann you'd prefer Giggs? or Hughes? maybe Paul Ince?
Gary Neville anyone?
He would be my top choice by a mile and certainly don't want to see him end up at a rival like Spurs or maybe even replace his German compatriot at the scousers either, personally I think the reason that many are happy to just stick with Ole is because they are terrified that someone else will come in and want to rip everything up and start another rebuild
They won't back him properly in this COVID affected market that is for certain and we all know how that usually ends, this is definitely starting to have echoes of that 17/18 season under Jose. I also feel he is not being vocal enough in the media about needing to sign players in the summer that you would get from other stronger managers.
Liverpool, maybe. Certainly not City.
High lines combined with Bundesliga defences being pretty poor for the most part. We stuck 5 past Leipzig themselves earlier this season and almost pulled back a 3-0 game in which we didn't play well.
Those are positions that need to be filled irrespective of who is manager, though. I accept that we don't spend 400, 500 milliion or whatever bonkers figure each summer (or any summer) but the reality is this squad doesn't go any further forward than it is now without further investment.
Despite poor recent results, this squad is still one that can challenge if we get the right reinforcements in. Next season's success really depends on how ambitious we want to be in the summer.
It's not as if we don't spend. Between SAF's retirement and now, we've had the second highest net spend in the league, about £100m behind City and way, way ahead of #3 (£850m > £750m > £450m). Our total expenditures for that period is more or less equal to City's and Chelsea's, all three right around £1bn. While it's irritating to be saddled with owners that take money out of the club, our finances are certainly not the reason United have completely and utterly collapsed over the course of a decade. We spend as much as anyone, it just doesn't work out.
it’s not the money. When they eventually spend they spend late to fix old problems while fresh problems have developed in the meantime. We spent a fortune but we are always chasing. Why do you think that is? That’s the organisation not having a solid plan. Why did we go from Moyes to LVG TO Jose to Ole? It’s almost always reactionary. Look at the drive and single-mindedness of the owners of our competitors. That’s what we are up against for better or worse. Our lads are probably still backing Martial to turn it around while City are sniffing around Haaland and Messi ffs. What manager can be expected to bridge that gap?
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I think both Giggs and Hughes would have a better chance of success than most, and I would definitely take Giggs over Nagelsmann.
What is this obsession with getting old players to be a manager? how is it of any benefit?
Let's get a coach that has actually qualified and built his way up through good performance, rather than his mate handing it to him on a plate.
So rather than Nagelsmann you'd prefer Giggs? or Hughes? maybe Paul Ince?
So many of the names put forward are just flavour of the month. Look back in five years and see what these guys have to show for a purple patch here and there.
In the end it is mainly about players anyway. But I prefer a former player as manager, preferably with some good coaches around him.
Yeah that is my thoughts exactly and what the scousers could see with Klopp from very early on, he clearly had a style of play that all of their fanbase could buy into and he certainly wouldn't approach top six games in such a negative way
It is not about who’s doing a good job somewhere else, it’s about who can do a good job here. It is not like any old job, I’m sure you know.
Yeah. And I fecking love Bielsa and don’t care what anyone says.
But, seriously, I do think most of the guys you mention would do a good job here. I realise I am in the minority.
Was a Klopp a Liverpool man when he was hired ? Was Guardiola a City man ? Was Wenger an Arsenal man ? Was Mourinho a Chelsea man ? Was even SAF a United man ?
We are not going big this summer so fair play to you if your prepared to give him another 2/3 summers to get those players that he wants, however bear in mind that we may well have lost a few players by then who are fed up of just contending for top four like Bruno for instance.
Yeah this obsession with appointing people with a Utd DNA from both our board and the sentimental ones in our fanbase whilst ignoring some of the up and coming european managers like Nagelsmann/Ten Haag is utterly ridiculous
All nice stuff and I appreciate your effect. But if we had Jorgen Klopp the board wouldn’t have mattered. He wouldn’t have needed Thomas Muller, Perisic, Boateng or Maguire to compete.
I get it they have made a lot of thing more difficult but guess what so does every board in the world except for maybe PSG and hell even they fail to deliver at times. Remember Di Maria.
Good Managers get results and if Nagelsmann will struggle if we don’t get him Sancho maybe we need another top manager and not him.
There aren’t really any viable candidates with the Utd dna after Ole. I’ve had a feeling the whole time that Fergie has been a guiding hand in the background to Ole. Especially when it comes to signing players who’ll take some responsibility. Get another 2 players as important as Bruno and Maguire and we are almost sorted. I could have said the same thing last summer too though.
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That last part concerns me quite a bit; he simply isn’t going to hang around and play dull, insipid football. There needs to be quality players and above all quality coaching. At times it seems like it’s Bruno coaching out there. He looks shot not because of physical tiredness but mental.
The loss of Pogba has left this team with a decent engine but no rudder
I hear you and totally respect your opinion on the manager. I still feel like we are closer than we have been to getting back even if the points and recent performances don’t show it yet. Surely Ole can go to the board now and get more wiggle room with someone like Martial after the season he’s just had. The team pretty clearly still needs creativity from somewhere if we want to go beyond bluster and saying the right things in the press. Maybe finally replace matic? Sign a right winger. You would hope common sense would prevail at the end of the day, whoever the manager is, but I wouldn’t hold my breath
I understood the United DNA thing when we were detoxing after the Jose era, it made total sense, bring the club back to its roots, make the atmosphere better again, but people still banging on about it to the point of excess still are a bit odd. We need to be more positive and progressive as a club.
He really isn’t a guiding hand at all. Fergie comes from a background where he’ll give you all
The encouragement and advice you want but believes that you’re your own person at the end of the day.
Ole has had some great great results but can’t instill a consistency into a team with talent. Good if not great managers/coaches can win ugly and win when not playing well because the philosophy is there.
We look a disparate bunch of talents capable of real memorable moments but some altogether forgettable ones. It’s too up and down for a club this size
I just think of this as like the djemba djemba days and hope there’s much better to come on the horizon. We were absolutely atrocious back then and looked miles off but we went on to build another solid team over a few years. You can’t go and get 5 players that improve us every summer because they simply aren’t on the market and when they are we still manage to fumble the deal. As I said in another reply. Our owners are probably encouraging the manager to revitalise Martial when city are sniffing around Haaland. That’s the root of our problem. It’s organisational.
I agree we are only a couple of top players away, let’s say three. Could tackle it in one bumper window. Maybe that’s the plan, if we get top 4.
(Whenever I type the words “if we get” my phone offers “Grealish” as an auto fill option).
A £250mil spree on a CB a CM and a forward and we are there.
My point
I think the team is more likely to achieve some consistency under Ole, sooner than then the continuing cycle of a new manager and rebuild every several years.
I wish the club would just fecking do and put us all out of our misery
I’d rather know by the end of next season if Ole has the balls to axe one of martial or Rashford if he’s given the authority. I’m sick of the incomplete team excuse manager after manager. If they don’t back him again we will limp through the season into top 4 and it’ll be all the same platitudes about United dna and everything else that everyone hates. Give him the tools. The squad needs the quality either way. If it doesn’t work at least we’ve finally seen one rebuild through in 10 years of talking about it
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Please, please, please dont go Rodgers...
imagine. Argh!
4 wrong appointments in a row. Even a broken clock is at least right twice a day, please Woody, stumble into someone good!
He could even be first choice if Ole is fired this summer (which obviously only happens if he fails to get us into the top 4). I don't think Nagelsmann would be interested and Ten Hag won't be considered.
The other options will probably be Allegri and a newly-fired Zidane, both of whom you'd expect Woodward to approach (although Zidane might want a break and Allegri may well be his replacement at Madrid).
Rodgers it is!
I still think that LVG was very good appointment on paper but it just didn't work.
I’d take Bielsa. I want entertaining football. It’s been drab for about 10 years now. If we’re not gonna win anything at least entertain me
Club now is very different to then and Moyes and LVG, in particular, felt the brunt of that with how poor our scouting and transfer team was. We are now pretty modern from what can tell and we have always spent money and given managers players they wanted. There is a new transfer committee and we have massively been building out our scouting department - we now just need to right manager to come in and and say 'this is how I want to play football and these are the type of players I will need', you then give them a full season and if there are signs of that vision happening and, importantly they are getting the team playing well, they should be backed and if not, you bring someone else in. That pattern continues until you find the right person and it's only United who have this weird aversion to sacking managers because of SAF's longevity, in reality it's completely normal to sack a manager if you aren't happy with them.
It's a moot point because if we fix the problems from upper management, Ole will be the first one out the door.
I'm "inventing narratives"? Isn't replacing Ole the topic? My statement was my reply. Questioning whether replacing Ole does anything more than distract from deeper systemic defects and ineptitude within the football operations of the company. This was demonstrated when they gave Ole the permanent job before the season was completed.
Thinking we should replace the manager doesn't mean that we think everything else in the club is fine. Meanwhile if we change the board and CEO it doesn't mean that Ole will also win the league.
People wanting Ole replaced think he won't win us the title regardless of the board or CEO in charge.
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I would take him too. He is top top class coach. But i would not mind going for Allegri.
I agree with you but I only think he should be fired if we still suck this time next year and he gets one or 2 of a winger striker dm or a cb. If they just leave him here with the same roster then surely you’d have to admit the club have failed him by not backing him and failed the fans by not consistently striving to improve the team over the last 2 years. The owners need to do that whoever the manager is and even opposition fans can see where we are lacking in quality compared to other top teams. Sacking managers who finished second and then weren’t backed isn’t a confident look whatever we decide to do