No Mata no problem

Adam-Utd

Part of first caf team to complete Destiny raid
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Sep 10, 2010
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I love the little guy, but I genuinely think we are a better team without him, offensively and defensively.

The only way he fits into the team is in the 10, but LVG clearly doesn't fancy him there. Playing him on the right wing is an absolute disaster and should never be considered again, he offers nothing apart from cutting inside and passing square or backward. His lack of dribbling or speed completely stifles the team.

Watching the game last night, and against Tottenham was completely different. Now you may say "we just played better", but the whole formation suits us more and the fact lingard/FM offered a threat down the right meant the whole pitch remained stretched. Tottenham pretty much squashed Martials side and let Mata have all the room in the world, knowing that if we switched they could get to him before he got out of 2nd gear.

If mourinho does come into the job then I can't see him staying again much longer, with rashfords emergence he will be the 9 from now on, leaving Rooney in the 10 or a deeper midfield role.

I just can't see a place for Juan anymore.
 
Mourinho is here soon so the conundrum will be over anyways.
 
Luxury player.
 
If he had started, he probably would have had a good game. West Ham gave us a lot of space, which we exploited at times. His alternative, Herrera, didn't even do much today.
 
saivet said:
If he had started, he probably would have had a good game. West Ham gave us a lot of space, which we exploited at times. His alternative, Herrera, didn't even do much today.
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While Herrera was quiet he does a lot of good movement to keep their midfield occupied, he definitely helps us keep a better tempo in our passing too. It's no surprise that our better performances come when he's in the team, but he suits the 3 man midfield much better.
 
Didn't we play well when Mata was in the middle before LvG suddenly had the wrong set of pills yet again?
 
Adam-Utd said:
While Herrera was quiet he does a lot of good movement to keep their midfield occupied, he definitely helps us keep a better tempo in our passing too. It's no surprise that our better performances come when he's in the team, but he suits the 3 man midfield much better.
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I disagree, Herrera gets a lot of credit for not doing much, credit which no one else would receive.

I do agree that he suits midfield 3, and that would be my preference, but thought he was pretty average yesterday.
 
Adam-Utd said:
While Herrera was quiet he does a lot of good movement to keep their midfield occupied, he definitely helps us keep a better tempo in our passing too. It's no surprise that our better performances come when he's in the team, but he suits the 3 man midfield much better.
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I think that was why Noble had such a bad game, Ander definitely kept him occupied and then Noble tried to become a one man stretcher bearer.

I also think people forget that Ander is coming back from injury. I would keep this side together for the Villa game and see if they can build something. The only change I might make is give Carrick a rest and bring in Morgan. Rooney will have to wait.
 
Think he is a good player but LVG is not getting the best out of him (like so many other players). If Mou's the next manager he's probably done but if it's someone else like Poch I could still see him coming good for us.
 
To be fair, no 4-2-3-1 and no problem is more the case in my opinion. We have 4 (BFS is probably to old to play a select role and would benefit from freedom) box to box midfielders and not a single proper playmaking ten who can play at an exceptional level but we've continued to bang this 4-2-3-1 drum all season with two midfielders who barely get past half way when we have the ball.

A boggler of a season this one has been really.
 
Akshay said:
Think he is a good player but LVG is not getting the best out of him (like so many other players). If Mou's the next manager he's probably done but if it's someone else like Poch I could still see him coming good for us.
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Don't think he would like him either. He seem's to prefer hard workers who are athletic too, Eriksen is just about the limit and he's had to work hard to improve that side of the game. Mata's defensive contribution from the front just isn't good enough. The rumours about him going to Atletico under Simeone is absolutely hilarious :lol:
 
Adam-Utd said:
I love the little guy, but I genuinely think we are a better team without him, offensively and defensively.

The only way he fits into the team is in the 10, but LVG clearly doesn't fancy him there. Playing him on the right wing is an absolute disaster and should never be considered again, he offers nothing apart from cutting inside and passing square or backward. His lack of dribbling or speed completely stifles the team.

Watching the game last night, and against Tottenham was completely different. Now you may say "we just played better", but the whole formation suits us more and the fact lingard/FM offered a threat down the right meant the whole pitch remained stretched. Tottenham pretty much squashed Martials side and let Mata have all the room in the world, knowing that if we switched they could get to him before he got out of 2nd gear.

If mourinho does come into the job then I can't see him staying again much longer, with rashfords emergence he will be the 9 from now on, leaving Rooney in the 10 or a deeper midfield role.

I just can't see a place for Juan anymore.
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Correlation not causation. We've played really well with Mata in the team, we've played really well without him in the team. We beat City and Arsenal playing really well with him in the team, we lost to Spurs playing dreadfully with him as well.

The problem is that our tactics only flourish when we're given acres of space to operate in, which usually only happens when teams attack us. We play against teams that press us or teams that keep it really tight and sit back (maybe 50% of teams in the Premier League) and our painstakingly slow build up play results in 1 shot on target.
 
finneh said:
Correlation not causation. We've played really well with Mata in the team, we've played really well without him in the team. We beat City and Arsenal playing really well with him in the team, we lost to Spurs playing dreadfully with him as well.

The problem is that our tactics only flourish when we're given acres of space to operate in, which usually only happens when teams attack us. We play against teams that press us or teams that keep it really tight and sit back (maybe 50% of teams in the Premier League) and our painstakingly slow build up play results in 1 shot on target.
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Spot on.
 
Its weird, I don't think we have actually seen the Mata of old because we had Moyes (who was well, Moyes) and then LVG who stagnates any creativity. That severely stunts Mata's contribution.

Not saying he's devoid of any blame, but if we had a manager who promoted more freedom in attack I don't think he'd be anywhere near as disappointing.
 
I'd still have him as #10 above anybody else in the squad if we insist playing 4231 for some idiotic reason.

It was just one of those games where we, surprise surprise, played well for some reason. As per usual people try to overanalyse/overthink it and look for SpaceGoats where there's no need for it. If we played without Fellaini yesterday and won, we'd hear how we play slick shit without Fellaini and he's the reason why we play shit 99% of other games.
 
finneh said:
Correlation not causation. We've played really well with Mata in the team, we've played really well without him in the team. We beat City and Arsenal playing really well with him in the team, we lost to Spurs playing dreadfully with him as well.

The problem is that our tactics only flourish when we're given acres of space to operate in, which usually only happens when teams attack us. We play against teams that press us or teams that keep it really tight and sit back (maybe 50% of teams in the Premier League) and our painstakingly slow build up play results in 1 shot on target.
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Agree with that.

The midfield three is a messy situation and LvG's biggest failing. He hasn't a clue what his best trio is, constantly chopping and changing.
 
Ramshock said:
Yes because a players form depends upon a managers imaginary medication.

I love Mata, if he had pace and some strength this thread wouldnt exist.
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You know that he's implying that it was stupid to move Mata to the wing and Lingard to the #10, right?
 
He isn't the only player without pace and strength.
The problem is that he has so many games like Sunday where he plays way too deep that he becomes a nonentity in attacking areas. So even though he's seen a lot of the ball, you have to say he's gone missing.
 
Steven Seagull said:
I was noticeably less likely to punch something next to me last night and I think it's because I didn't have to watch him running 45 degrees backwards across the pitch before getting blown over by a gust of strong wind
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Yep I feel your pain. But rather than punch anything a little bit of me dies inside seeing him cut inside or backwards allowing the opposition time to regroup whilst our momentum grinds to a hault.
 
Adam-Utd said:
Don't think he would like him either. He seem's to prefer hard workers who are athletic too, Eriksen is just about the limit and he's had to work hard to improve that side of the game. Mata's defensive contribution from the front just isn't good enough. The rumours about him going to Atletico under Simeone is absolutely hilarious :lol:
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I think Mata has shown willingness to track back in the big games. He's just not got any strength so his challenges are often ineffective. Some gym work like Valencia would put him right in a hurry, if he's willing. But I definitely don't think he could cut it under Simeone :D.
 
He's been in poor form recently but I still think people have short-term memories when it comes to Mata. He has had quite a few good games throughout the seasons. Whether we're better with or without him on the pitch, I'm not sure. I'd like to see him given a run of games in the no. 10 positions. But either way, he's a good option to have. No reason to sell, especially seeing as we would be unlikely to get a decent price for him.
 
Ramshock said:
Yes because a players form depends upon a managers imaginary medication.

I love Mata, if he had pace and some strength this thread wouldnt exist.
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Ramshock said:
Really? You dont say?
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Maybe it will be better if you post stats an points about how having Mata in the team is hindering us and how he sitting out helps us and try to prove your point, rather than "I feel like that"
 
Having said what I said above, I still have no problems him playing right or left side of a 4-3-3.
 
I think it is well-documented that Mata needs to play in the No10 role and is exposed when he plays either right or left. Already been mentioned that Herrera played quite poorly last night coming into the side Mata's place.
He is just a bit too slow and deliberate, which means that certain games might just pass him by, but in other situations his class and composure can win a game. There is a case for him though, as obviously in terms of who the opposition is, hectic schedule of games, injuries, suspensions and rotation to allow players to rest a bit, he can play a vital role in the team. Just not in either of the wide roles.
 
Mata hasn't the pace for a wide position and in my opinion he hasn't the 'presence' or strength for a central position at a top side.
Pity but there it is.
 
He's shite. Can't wait till we rid him and a couple of others.
 
He's a mid tier club player.. I don't think he'd get into any top european side tbh.
 
He's simply isn't that good. Jose was obviously wrong about Lukaku and more so Kevin De Bruyne but not Mata. However he will naturally look terrible and ineffective playing out wide. Not the best no.10 either though. I personally would prefer to see us play a 4-3-3 without a no.10 simply because we don't have a good enough one.
 
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