Even if, and that's a big if, we'd have won all these games under Jose, the way we did it and all the drama around Jose would have been unbearable.
Ole Gunnar Solskjaer | W15 D2 L4
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It's not just a career move or a job. They're ex-players and spent considerable time at the club. This makes success doubly sweet.
Remember when we couldn't play attacking football until we had new ball playing CBs? Those civil war days on the Caf were truly dark days.
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I could imagine winning those games under Jose. He would have been so smug and that would have given more ammunition next time he wanted to cause some crap. No thanks Jose. Thank you so much Ole
wut?
Top reds and alike were insistent that Jose wasn’t having us play football because the defence couldn’t be trusted and all would be ok if we got a defender in.
Edit: You knew this already my bad
Ole really has a way with words. Spoken like a true gentleman with respect and dignity.
This, this, this all day. Ole is doing a great job but what's all this obsession with results against the top 6? We may win some, draw some and lose some.
That's fine by me. WE don't have a God-given right to just turn up at the Etihad, Stamford Bridge or Anfield and get wins. Those are big teams too in their own rights and on their home turfs too.
Any win against a top 6 team in the EPL especially away from home is a bonus in my eyes.
We also couldn't sack Mourinho until an adequate replacement was lined up, according to some.
Some people are upset that Ole is doing well because they desperately want Pochettino, it's incredibly sad.
Even in our pomp you'd go into those games with the attitude of 'I'll take a draw here' away to any of those teams. Same applies for Spurs in the next PL game.
And while we're obsessing over games against the top 6, why don't the Poch fans go and take a look at his form, particularly away form, against the top six while he's been in charge of Tottenham. If it is a barometer, he's got no chance of being our next manager.
"yeah but who can we realistically get that's better?"
Yeah but we're going to drop points along those runs, against lesser teams and the better ones. Question is how we play through it and the progress we make over the course of the season.
Absolutely. Big games being then sole barometer is silly. There's much to consider rather than just those games when evaluating a manager.
We can win big games and hiring someone else can still be the right decision. We can lost them and Ole can still be the right decision. The same applies to winning a trophy. I'm interested in the team he creates and develops.
I find it interesting the difference in attitudes with OGS compared with when Giggs was being touted to take over after LVG. I made a big thread at the time arguing that Giggs would be a good fit due to his understanding of the club etc, but I was largely in the minority. (For reference, here is the old thread: https://www.redcafe.net/threads/the-argument-for-giggs-as-our-next-manager.407957/ )
In my opnion, Solskjaer is already proof that the whole "working your way up from smaller clubs" concept is fundamentally flawed. Its only 4 games in and I am not even jumping on the bandwagon yet to have him named permanent manager, but what is undeniable is that he clearly understands the expectations from the fans. He (along with Carrick and Phelan) understands Manchester United as a club far more than our last three managers, and that has made an immediate difference in the morale and atmosphere surrounding the club.
It isnt because he is some tactical genius - realistically he hasnt had long enough to implement any major adjustments to playing style etc - it is simply that understanding of the club, the players, the fans. And if he continues in the current vein of form then I think it raises a good case that these characteristics can be just as important as tactial acumen and managerial experience.
In my opnion, Solskjaer is already proof that the whole "working your way up from smaller clubs" concept is fundamentally flawed. Its only 4 games in and I am not even jumping on the bandwagon yet to have him named permanent manager, but what is undeniable is that he clearly understands the expectations from the fans. He (along with Carrick and Phelan) understands Manchester United as a club far more than our last three managers, and that has made an immediate difference in the morale and atmosphere surrounding the club.
It isnt because he is some tactical genius - realistically he hasnt had long enough to implement any major adjustments to playing style etc - it is simply that understanding of the club, the players, the fans. And if he continues in the current vein of form then I think it raises a good case that these characteristics can be just as important as tactial acumen and managerial experience.
I agree with you points broadly but OGS has hundreds of games experience as a manager. Giggs had a handful at that time
SORRY IT'S THE PHONE
Exactly.
Ole will obviously be bringing stuff to the job that he's learnt from being a manager so far (how to deal with players, training, style of play, tactics etc.) to the job... he's not just doing it based on understanding Man United (though obviously thats a part of it too).
Ole and Giggs also have very different personalities.
Because Giggs knows the club inside and out doesn't mean he has the same charisma and attitude as Ole.
Giggs is much more subdued, and I think for what it's worth he'd be much more disagreeable and carry baggage. Ole seems like someone's who is always stern but fair and will work through whatever issue is apparent.
I'm enjoying Ole's time in charge, and long may this enjoyment continue. Let's get some success this season and build on it next year with a DoF and Poch.
Because Giggs knows the club inside and out doesn't mean he has the same charisma and attitude as Ole.
Giggs is much more subdued, and I think for what it's worth he'd be much more disagreeable and carry baggage. Ole seems like someone's who is always stern but fair and will work through whatever issue is apparent.
I'm enjoying Ole's time in charge, and long may this enjoyment continue. Let's get some success this season and build on it next year with a DoF and Poch.
Solsjkaer is charismatic and articulate. He’s managed hundreds of games and won trophies, doing something genuinely impressive with Molde in the context of their own country. His four games so far (albeit with a better squad) have been significantly more exciting than the four that took place under Giggs.
It may seem shallow (it probably is) but press conferences create a general impression. The overwhelming impression you get from Solskjaer is a positive one. He talks so much about attacking football. He’s so happy. So interesting. Giggs is pales in comparison on this front.
A) Solskjaer has years and years of experience as a manager, which Giggs does not. There's absolutely no reason to discount that as a huge factor in any success he has here.
B) There's also a huge difference between being an interim manager mid-season and being a permanent manager long term, both in terms of what is expected of you in the role, your relationship with the players and the immediate impact "understanding" the club is likely to have.
Really the two situations aren't all that comparable.
And if ‘understanding the club’ is all it takes to manage the club (I’m aware this wasn’t the whole argument) then we may as well have hired Bruce or Hughes.
It’s disingenuous to suggest that Solskjaer has had little impact on the tactical side of things. Possession, passing channels, players positions and approach to matches has all changed over the past few weeks. His prior experience will have informed such changes.
It’s disingenuous to suggest that Solskjaer has had little impact on the tactical side of things. Possession, passing channels, players positions and approach to matches has all changed over the past few weeks. His prior experience will have informed such changes.
I love how now every game against a top 6 side is "easy" when Ole is in charge.
City recently lost to Leicester & Palace. Spurs have lost points to Wolves, Watford. United have lost points to Brighton, West Ham, Wolves, Crystal Palace, Southampton.
Since when is fighting teams fighting for survival in the league during the latter half of the season "easy" games?
The true mastermind?
2:56 onward
I understand your point(s). But managing Molde and Cardiff does not prepare you for managing United. This is the same sort of debate I ended up having about Giggs. My belief is that managing a small(er) club does not necessarily qualify you to manage a big one. Moyes managed Everton for years - he failed spectacularly. LVG and Mourinho had experience managing a multitude of big clubs - they also both failed.
The reason we appointed Solskjaer is due to his connection with the club. It is patently ridiculous to claim otherwise. Put it another way - if he had never played for United, would we have appointed him based on his track record at Molde and Cardiff? Of course not.
Regarding tactical acumen - it is yet to be seen. I dont think Solskjaer and his team would have had enough time at this point to do a lot more than "give the players freedom", "taking the shackles off" etc. This is a matter of opinion of course.
Great vid of Phelan discussing progress and future games. Video posted by 'freshsalsadip' on reddevils reddit channel.
Similarly, however, had he not managed Molde he wouldn't have been given the job. It's not one or the other, it's both.
Bingo.
That's the thing though; this IS a Ole v Giggs discussion so it's disingenuous to claim that managerial experience doesn't matter when comparing exclusively those two.
But to then widen the discussion Ole wasn't just hired based on his connection to the club; that was obviously a major factor but his personality, as well as managerial experience and tactical style, also played a part in the appointment.
Hah! I confess I thought along these lines a couple of months back, Mourinho really did a number on our fanbase. After Newcastle at home I couldn’t have cared less, I’d have been happy with Carrick and McKenna"yeah but who can we realistically get that's better?"
So what you're saying in essence is that there's half a season left?
Yeah, like Maguire, VVD, Toby or any defender not currently at United. We had to change DDG too for a ball playing keeper like Ederson. Great times with the likes of @cheeky_backheel and @VP89We’re (you’re, in fact) comparing Ole and Giggs, though. You’re right in saying that Ole wouldn’t have been given the job if not for being a legendary link the to club. But this is why so many people are sceptical of him as a long term appointment. He’ll have to do abundantly well to convince the club he’s the right man for the job.
So what you're saying in essence is that there's half a season left?
Where the feck did I say we needed to do any of those things? We needed a defender. That hasn't changed. Don't quote me if youre just going to make shit up.
My only fear with Ole is him not being ruthless when he needs to be because of sentimentality. Will he be able to tell the likes of Young, Valencia and Jones they are done and should find another club? Will he be able to bench or sale the likes Rashford/Lingard for better players if we have to? That has always been my worry with signing one of our players especially Giggsy who I was totally against especially given how long it would take to sack them. But if were ever going to do it Ole would have been my number one choice. I respect the way he set off on his own to do his own thing, and I'm delighted with what he's doing so far. I really feel he'll do well for the rest of the season, its if he has the balls to do what it takes to take us to the next level next season I'm worried about but I guess we have till this season end to know more about him.
He did say we was giving everyone a blank slate (which is fair enough).
Also worth remembering that he’s still at this point only a caretaker manager so will have limited say over players’ futures, transfers etc.
Though considering he openly models his managerial style after Fergie, I’d imagine he’d likely channel that same ruthlessness if he is given the role on a permanent basis.
The caf seems to have a civil war every year. What the reason this year will be is anyone's guess.
Could you ever see Ole shagging his brother's wife for a decade?
Giggs has the demeanor of the special needs one and the passive-aggressiveness of Pep. I doubt he'd have the same effect as Ole.