Our attackers compared to rivals

Bojan11

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Can anyone honestly say Mkhitaryan, Rashford, Lukaku and Lingard would be starting for our rivals? Martial depending on which one turns up. Mata wouldn’t.

Liverpool - Coutinho, Firminho, Mane and Salah.

City - Jesus, Aguero, Sane, Sterling, B Silva, De Bruyne

Chelsea - Pedro, Hazard, William, Morata, Fabregas,

Spurs - Kane, Alli, Eriksen, Son

Arsenal - Lacazette, Sanchez, Ozil, Iwobi

So let’s be realistic. How many of our attacking players would start in those teams? This isn’t another defend Mourinho thread as he should have addressed this.

Some people thinking we going to change manager and then be free scoring with this set of attackers are deluded for me. I don’t think our attackers compliment each other at all unlike our rivals. Unless we have a huge overhaul then nothing massive will change. Our current lot are not capable of producing a title challenge.
 
Well Jose had one of those attacks and by the time he was finished they looked a shadow of themselves.

It's not inconceivable that something similar is happening to our players.
 
Bojan11 said:
Can anyone honestly say Mkhitaryan, Rashford, Lukaku and Lingard would be starting for our rivals? Martial depending on which one turns up. Mata wouldn’t.

Liverpool - Coutinho, Firminho, Mane and Salah.

City - Jesus, Aguero, Sane, Sterling, B Silva, De Bruyne

Chelsea - Pedro, Hazard, William, Morata, Fabregas,

Spurs - Kane, Alli, Eriksen, Son

Arsenal - Lacazette, Sanchez, Ozil, Iwobi

So let’s be realistic. How many of our attacking players would start in those teams? This isn’t another defend Mourinho thread as he should have addressed this.

Some people thinking we going to change manager and then be free scoring with this set of attackers are deluded for me. I don’t think our attackers compliment each other at all unlike our rivals. Unless we have a huge overhaul then nothing massive will change. Our current lot are not capable of producing a title challenge.
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Calm down, it's Jose tactical that is holding them back. They are not properly coached.
 
MaxiPaxi said:
Well Jose had one of those attacks and by the time he was finished they looked a shadow of themselves.

It's not inconceivable that something similar is happening to our players.
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Yet he won the premier league with that attack also.

Do you honestly think our current attack is capable of doing that? As that is what we should be aiming for?
 
The only players that would get into City’s starting 11 are De Gea and Pogba.

You think the likes of City and Chelsea would have Jones, Smalling, Young and Shaw starting every week for them? :lol: Give me a break. Herrera, Mkhitaryan and Martial wouldn’t sniff the pitch for those sides. And like it or not, those two are the competition. They have better players, meanwhile we’re settling for average dross. It’s no surprise they’re so far ahead of us.

We need to wake the feck up.
 
Bojan11 said:
Yet he won the premier league with that attack also.

Do you honestly think our current attack is capable of doing that? As that is what we should be aiming for?
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Two years ago no one would think that Jesus, Sane, Mane, Salah, Alli, Son, Iwobi, Lacazette or Firmino would be better EPL players than Lukaku, Martial, Mkhi or Mata.

When all the forwards you sign seem to stink season after season there has to come a point when you stop blaming players and start looking at the coach
 
Mourinho had a good set of attackers at Chelsea. Looked awful. Mourinho has had two summer windows to address any weaknesses in the squad. Hasn’t done it. It’s Mourinho.
 
You don't need world class players to get more than 3 shots on target against Soton at home.
 
Bojan11 said:
Yet he won the premier league with that attack also.

Do you honestly think our current attack is capable of doing that? As that is what we should be aiming for?
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Well we would have been first in 4 premier league campaigns so it does show you that we're capable. Obviously, Mkhitaryan needs replaced.

His Chelsea team had Hazard who was absolutely outstanding. We simply don't have that so I take your point. Our attack needs some real world class quality.
 
Ishdalar said:
Two years ago no one would think that Jesus, Sane, Mane, Salag, Alli, Son Iwobi, Lacazette or Firmino would be better EPL players than Lukaku, Martial, Mkhi or Mata.

When all the forwards you sign seem to stink season after season there has to come a point when you stop blaming players and start looking at the coach
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Mata has been here four years and has done nothing.

Lukaku wouldn’t suit a lot of those teams besides Chelsea. Even then Morata does more.

Martial is a inconsistent 21 year old. But that’s what you gonna get with a player that age.

Mkhitaryan also played like this under Klopp.

We only have signed three forwards under Mourinho. Lukaku and Ibra was just a swap. Mkhitaryan has been disappointing.
 
Bojan11 said:
Mata has been here four years and has done nothing.

Lukaku wouldn’t suit a lot of those teams besides Chelsea. Even then Morata does more.

Martial is a inconsistent 21 year old. But that’s what you gonna get with a player that age.

Mkhitaryan also played like this under Klopp.

We only have signed three forwards under Mourinho. Lukaku and Ibra was just a swap. Mkhitaryan has been disappointing.
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Well that's just a lie but go on.
 
Bojan11 said:
Can anyone honestly say Mkhitaryan, Rashford, Lukaku and Lingard would be starting for our rivals? Martial depending on which one turns up. Mata wouldn’t.

Liverpool - Coutinho, Firminho, Mane and Salah.

City - Jesus, Aguero, Sane, Sterling, B Silva, De Bruyne

Chelsea - Pedro, Hazard, William, Morata, Fabregas,

Spurs - Kane, Alli, Eriksen, Son

Arsenal - Lacazette, Sanchez, Ozil, Iwobi

So let’s be realistic. How many of our attacking players would start in those teams? This isn’t another defend Mourinho thread as he should have addressed this.

Some people thinking we going to change manager and then be free scoring with this set of attackers are deluded for me. I don’t think our attackers compliment each other at all unlike our rivals. Unless we have a huge overhaul then nothing massive will change. Our current lot are not capable of producing a title challenge.
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These hypothetical "who would get into X team" comparisons don't work since a vast majority of how good these players perform depends on the management, tactics etc.
 
I think both sides of the coin are right, this set of attackers are not really good enough to win the top prize no matter who manages them, Martial is the only one I could see being molded into a starter in the other teams. However we clearly have no attacking gameplan or cohesion, that comes from what we are, or maybe more accurately aren't doing on the training ground, attacks can be greater than the sum of their parts under good coaching, Jose relies on individuals and we don't have the caliber of individuals needed for that reliance.
 
Jaybomb said:
The only players that would get into City’s starting 11 are De Gea and Pogba.

You think the likes of City and Chelsea would have Jones, Smalling, Young and Shaw starting every week for them? :lol: Give me a break. Herrera, Mkhitaryan and Martial wouldn’t sniff the pitch for those sides. And like it or not, those two are the competition. They have better players, meanwhile we’re settling for average dross. It’s no surprise they’re so far ahead of us.

We need to wake the feck up.
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Actually, as of right now, none of our players would get into the City-team. Pep would never swap De Gea for Ederson, given he appreciates a GK with ability on the ball. Pogba would not replace de Bruyne (who is the better player by far) and/or Silva.

I love Pogba, but he doesn’t control the games as much as I hoped, he doesn’t carry the team - and he doesn’t always come up with that killer ball or shot. Pogba is ridiculously good at shielding the ball and getting out of trouble, but what does it ever lead to? He is as good at notching 60 yard crosses to the other side of the pitch, but it seldom leads to any attacking advantage.
 
Minimalist said:
You don't need world class players to get more than 3 shots on target against Soton at home.
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I’m not talking about today’s game. This set of attackers is mainly full of in consistent players. We don’t have a Hazard, De Bruyne, Salah or Kane.

Mata has never been consistent for us. Rashford and Martial are just two young players. Mkhitaryan blew hot and cold at Dortmund. I don’t think he’s the sort of player when the chips are down to win you a game.
 
Relying on Rashford, Martial and Lingard was always going to be a risk at the start of the season.

risk hasn't paid off, they need a lot more experience and need to add consistency in their games. I just hope we have enough attacking power to get fourth.

Having said that, Lukaku missing easy chances when our attacking options lack goals is killing us.
 
Jaybomb said:
The only players that would get into City’s starting 11 are De Gea and Pogba.

You think the likes of City and Chelsea would have Jones, Smalling, Young and Shaw starting every week for them? :lol: Give me a break. Herrera, Mkhitaryan and Martial wouldn’t sniff the pitch for those sides. And like it or not, those two are the competition. They have better players, meanwhile we’re settling for average dross. It’s no surprise they’re so far ahead of us.

We need to wake the feck up.
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I said the same in some previous thread, De Gea for sure but, when you think about that, who you would bench to play Pogba?
 
Minimalist said:
Well that's just a lie but go on.
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So can you name me a period where Mata has been consistently amazing for us? I’m not talking about 1 good game and then followed by 5 average games.

I’d take Eriksen, Coutinho and Ozil over him.
 
Raoul said:
These hypothetical "who would get into X team" comparisons don't work since a vast majority of how good these players perform depends on the management, tactics etc.
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Indeed.
MaxiPaxi said:
Well Jose had one of those attacks and by the time he was finished they looked a shadow of themselves.

It's not inconceivable that something similar is happening to our players.
Click to expand...
Wasn't Hazard pretty critical of Mourinho's tactics as well? Saying he improved under Conte in a week and that he learned more about the importance of movement without the ball (which, for us is a major criticism of our players)?

"Tactical training. We do more with Conte. We know exactly what to do on the pitch, where I have to go, the defenders [know] where they have to go.

"With Mourinho it was just he put the system [in place], but we didn't work a lot [on it]. We know what to do because we play football, but maybe the automatism was a little bit different."

"We know that to create movement I have to not even get the ball, but to create movement and space for others," he explained. "I think now I understand that football is not only with the ball at my feet. It's good to get the ball at my feet but sometimes I need to go deep, to go at the goal."
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http://www.espn.co.uk/football/chel...actical-preparation-better-than-jose-mourinho
 
Bojan11 said:
So can you name me a period where Mata has been consistently amazing for us? I’m not talking about 1 good game and then followed by 5 average games.

I’d take Eriksen, Coutinho and Ozil over him.
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Its a pointless comparison since the other three haven't been through 3 separate managers in 3-4 years, countless changes in tactics, "philosophy", and managerial styles. Put any of the other three into Mata's shoes during that period and you would see similar stop/start type results.
 
Jaybomb said:
The only players that would get into City’s starting 11 are De Gea and Pogba.
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With Pep as manager I don't think either of them would get in. Ederson is more suited to his tactics and Pogba wouldn't get in ahead of De Bruyne or David Silva.
 
Damien said:
Indeed.

Wasn't Hazard pretty critical of Mourinho's tactics as well? Saying he improved under Conte in a week and that he learned more about the importance of movement without the ball (which, for us is a major criticism of our players)?



http://www.espn.co.uk/football/chel...actical-preparation-better-than-jose-mourinho
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Yeah.

Though, it's hard to take Hazard seriously. He waxed lyrical about Jose as well iicr.

But, I'm of the inclination that Jose wouldn't do anything special with any of those players.
 
It's clear our attacking players aren't good enough, apart from Lukaku. Bunch of inconsistent youngsters combined with a past it players.

However, it's Mourinho to be blamed for this. No way we should have entered the season with such a forward line, especially after the shite we saw last season. We only replaced Zlatan with Lukaku, which wasn't enough. We should have got at least another attacking player. If Perisic deal failed we should have got another one instead of him, at least.

Next season we should replace both Mikhi and Mata with better players. Either that or Mourinho is preparing his grave by himself.
 
I think its also fair to say Mata was one of the best players in the league before Jose got his hands on him at Chelsea.
 
our attackers are hugely overrated by our fans

Lukaku - not world class, reminiscent of when Liverpool signed benteke. Mistakes were made. We should get rid immediately

Rashford - sorry but he’s rubbish, can run but nothing else basically he’s another Walcott.

Mkhi - lol

Mata - only player with any sort of a brain but too slow and weak.

Martial - our best attacker but barely gets played

Lingard - didn’t rate him but his performances last few weeks have changed my opinion but should never be more than squad player.
 
All Mourinho's fault imo.

He saw how porous our attack was last season and didn't do enough. A Lukaku for Ibra swap is everything we did to fix our attack from a personnel point of view.

Not good enough.
 
MaxiPaxi said:
I think its also fair to say Mata was one of the best players in the league before Jose got his hands on him at Chelsea.
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and Oscar did okay at the time (still not good enough to replace Mata IMO) but deteriorated. Criminal that they managed to sell him for £60M.
 
Our attackers are so overrated by our fans. Rashford, Martial and even Lingard shouldn't be players we are relying on as (a) They are still unproven and maybe not even good enough anyways and (b) They show a complete lack of consistency.

The other teams around us have proven players with more quality who are alot more consistent
 
MaxiPaxi said:
I think its also fair to say Mata was one of the best players in the league before Jose got his hands on him at Chelsea.
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Well you can hardly blame Jose for making Hazard the main man at Chelsea. Chelsea haven’t missed Mata.

He’s been average for us and he has had a lot of chances under three managers. He’s definitely not as good carrying the ball like Coutinho, Ozil or Eriksen. He can’t even put a good corner in, I’m not sure you can blame Jose for that.
 
Bojan11 said:
Well you can hardly blame Jose for making Hazard the main man at Chelsea. Chelsea haven’t missed Mata.
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He replaced Mata with Oscar.
 
Lukaku might be good enough with decent service. None of the others are good enough for a title challenge.
 
It's pretty bizarre how Mourinho has managed to win so much in his career if all he does is 'put in system'.
 
The players aren't good enough, this is clear as we've struggled to score goals for 4 years now. We replaced Zlatan with Lukaku this summer but haven't changed the players supplying him so very little has changed.

We have no creativity apart from Pogba's chipped passes into Lukaku or Martial beating 3 men.
 
Jaybomb said:
The only players that would get into City’s starting 11 are De Gea and Pogba.

You think the likes of City and Chelsea would have Jones, Smalling, Young and Shaw starting every week for them? :lol: Give me a break. Herrera, Mkhitaryan and Martial wouldn’t sniff the pitch for those sides. And like it or not, those two are the competition. They have better players, meanwhile we’re settling for average dross. It’s no surprise they’re so far ahead of us.

We need to wake the feck up.
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Why would shaw not start over Delph or Jones over otamendi? Martial over pedro seems to be a no brainer as well.
 
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