Our Right Back Position

Sparky Rhiwabon

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Jose has said that he had four targets - I think we can now assume that a right back was not one of these.

I am surprised that he's happy to go into the season with:

Darmian - awful at times last season and rarely very good
Valencia - not a proper right back

Surely teams will just constantly target that side of the pitch for their attacks meaning that we are vulnerable there? It will also mean that Mkhitaryan will spend half his time tracking back to help out in defence.
 
4 were the main targets. Then the market is still open. I think he will try to get a buyer for Darmian, make few outgoing transfers and try to get a new RB in (maybe Fabinho)?
 
We need an upgrade but Valencia is under rated and TFM has potential plus maybe Darmain can settle and start producing better performances
 
I understood it as four priorities, not that we intend to end all activity in the transfer market once they've signed. Wouldn't be surprised to see us also sign Fabinho after a few departures.
 
I can see Darmian being a valuable commodity in year 1 for Jose as he seeks a conservative defensive line to retain balance. Darmian will be our go to guy for slowing opposition play, taking professional fouls and maintaining that resistance to a counter attack as Zlatan, Mikhitaryan, Roney, (Pogba?) and others push forward.

Hopefully TFM can pick up enough game time as a backup here to fill in as I believe this is the slot where he can benefit from most in the short term. We'll see.
 
This is why I didn't understand loaning out Varela. Darmian doesn't give us a decent attacking strength. I actually think that Valencia is alright at Right Back but his understudy should've be Varela not Darmian. Or maybe, Mou is trying to replicate his Chelsea fullback duo - Limited FullBack and WingBack. Darmian could be the Limited aspect of this duo so thats probably the reasoning behind this
 
I expect Valencia will be first choice this season. I'm not a big fan of his but he's not actually bad in the position.
 
I'm actually a fan of Darmian, sure his form dipped around Christmas and he never really managed to get it back but before that he looked a good player, and I think a lot of people thought we'd bought well. I'm not prepared to write him off after one season in a sub par team with a mentalist at the helm.
 
It is a myth that Darmian is a good defender. It must be because he is Italian. He has shown nothing to demonstrate he is a world class defensive right back, or even premier league quality defensive right back good enough for United. He will be sold by January imo.

Valencia is a decent backup but doesn't possess natural defensive instints and is shite at crossing the ball. Our best bet for the short term mind but we should definitely use him as a backup right back.

TFM is not a right back. He is being shoehorned there but he can't really cross a ball, he can't really dribble well close to the touchline and defensively he is fine, but the other aspects mean he just isn't right back. Furthermore I feel it is a waste of the lads potential because even if he didn't make it at United, he could be a quality midfielder somewhere else. Has far too much going for him to be wasted as a right back.
 
The best thing about seeing Darmian play at right back is that it means he isn't playing at left back.
 
4 players are the main priority. After that the market is open for everyone. Some players might be sold and new players are coming to replace them. So a new right back is possible.
But what's up with Valencia? Do you think the likes of Coleman, Clyne, Walker, Sagna, Simpson can do much better job than Valencia does at the moment? In fact, both our right and left will be a scary quartet for any opposition team. Imagine we have 3 quickest player out of these four (Valencia, Mkhitaryan, Shaw, Martial) bombarding their full backs.
 
I think Jose fancies his chances of working his magic on Darmian and Valencia though.

Darmian although atrocious at times last season and clearly sorely lacking as an attacking outlet has showcased his defensive ability in the past and did reasonably well at the start of last season. A defensively-renowned and pragmatic coach like Jose will fancy his chances of bringing the best out of an Italian defender.

Valencia is a player I've wanted out the door on more than one occasion, but grown to appreciate more and more over time. Nothing spectacular about him, but he offers something different to Darmian in that he's a ball-carrier, quick and powerful and can at least support the attack although he can be so one-dimensional.

I don't subscribe to the belief that a right back is essential. I think we can test the waters with what we have this season and it really might pay dividends. Darmian at least deserves one more season anyway.
 
I think Darmian deserves another shot. There was enough there early last season to indicate more a form issue than one of being generally shit.
 
Having a highly paid winger playing as RB is so wrong. Id say we get Fabinho and keep Darmian as a reserve. In due time Darmian can move as LB to give space to TFM
 
Raees said:
It is a myth that Darmian is a good defender. It must be because he is Italian. He has shown nothing to demonstrate he is a world class defensive right back, or even premier league quality defensive right back good enough for United.
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This. His positioning is awful too seems to get caught out a lot and the times I even watched him for Italy he was shit. He's inept going forward and not good enough at defending. Darmian got off to a decent start for us had a few good games at the start of the season but it's been downhill since then. I have zero confidence in him.

Fabinho would be a perfect replacement. I'm sure we could sell Darmian back to a club in Italy for at least £10 million and then we could use that money to get Fabinho would will probably cost anywhere between 15M-20M.
 
Percy17 said:
This is why I didn't understand loaning out Varela. Darmian doesn't give us a decent attacking strength. I actually think that Valencia is alright at Right Back but his understudy should've be Varela not Darmian. Or maybe, Mou is trying to replicate his Chelsea fullback duo - Limited FullBack and WingBack. Darmian could be the Limited aspect of this duo so thats probably the reasoning behind this
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I don't think Varela is relevant here - he is pretty average and would be cover only. I am talking about first choice right back - week in week out player.
 
Sparky Rhiwabon said:
I am surprised that he's happy to go into the season with:

Darmian - awful at times last season and rarely very good
Valencia - not a proper right back

Surely teams will just constantly target that side of the pitch for their attacks meaning that we are vulnerable there? It will also mean that Mkhitaryan will spend half his time tracking back to help out in defence.
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Darmian will be okay, I am pretty confident that he and Schneiderlin were severely vangled. Valencia should be the absolute last choice can't field even a young apprentice CB at fullback option. I'd have had Varela up there ahead of him but Valencia is definitely more experienced. He just isn't a fullback.
 
I'm happy to give Darmian another go. He's shown previously that he's a very good player - maybe not quite top class, but not far off - and I wouldn't want to judge him on one season under Vangal. If he doesn't cut it, then it's a position to go for next summer.
 
People talking about Darmian being OK defensively - have you forgotten his performance (coming on as sub) against Spurs? One of the worst full back displays in a United shirt that I can remember.
 
I think Jose will make a good player out of Darmian. This is a guy that was twice in the Serie A team of the year, and won player of the month with us when he first joined. He was immense in his first few games. The ability is most definitely there, he just got tired quickly and lost his confidence.
 
Valencia has played as a right back for 5 years now. I think we can consider him a "proper" right back now.
 
Darmian started well last season. That settled back four of him, Smalling, Blind and Shaw was very balanced until Shaws injury. From then, Darmian was in and out, often playing at left back. The Shaw injury really seemed to be the catalyst for LVG's tinkering, and playing players anywhere but their best positions, and the majority of the team began to fall apart. Darmian included, but also several others.

If Darmian can get a solid run at RB again, he could be a solid option. In those opening games, he was very good. Excellent at one on ones and good in the box. Lacked a little in attack, but we weren't attacking well as a team. I'd be happy to see him given another season. It'd be harsh to write anyone off based on last season, given the scarcity of confidence and belief on show. Bar one or two, the whole squad looked shot.

Reset button. Everyone gets to start again.

Except Rojo. No Rojo.
 
I don't think it's as big a deal as people make out. Tony is underrated and offers a lot going forward and Darmian is a good defender IMO. I think the pair can share the position quite effectively depending on the opponent.

Surely the talk of Jones playing there is just because he's similar build to Ivanovic? Can't see it happening.
 
svn said:
Valencia has played as a right back for 5 years now. I think we can consider him a "proper" right back now.
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Id certainly prefer him over Darmian and I do think he's underrated on here, but is he really at the sort of level we want for a first choice player? Not sure.
 
LuisNaniencia said:
I don't think it's as big a deal as people make out. Tony is underrated and offers a lot going forward and Darmian is a good defender IMO. I think the pair can share the position quite effectively depending on the opponent.

Surely the talk of Jones playing there is just because he's similar build to Ivanovic? Can't see it happening.
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If you know anything about Jose, you'd know that he doesn't do rotation or sharing of positions - he prefers to have the same team every game barring injuries (which he doesn't get many of)

Who was Chelsea's second choice left back after Azpilicueta? What about second choice rightback after Ivanovic?
 
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svn said:
Valencia has played as a right back for 5 years now. I think we can consider him a "proper" right back now.
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Rooney has been playing in midfield for 3, do we consider him a 'proper' midfield after a few more?
 
svn said:
Valencia has played as a right back for 5 years now. I think we can consider him a "proper" right back now.
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I don't think that is entirely true. Thanks to @Minkaro from the Valencia thread.
Minkaro said:
15/16 - 23 games (all as RB)
14/15 - 35 games (24 as RB)
13/14 - 44 games (8 as RB)
12/13 - 40 games (3 as RB)
11/12 - 38 games (5 as RB)
10/11 - 20 games (0 as RB)
09/10 - 49 games 0 as RB)

All according to transfermarkt. So under LVG he played 81% of games at RB. Before LVG it was 8% (assuming my maths isn't terrible). So you're right, but for some reason it feels like he's played a lot more at RB. One for the weird feelings of football thread.
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Lets meet in the middle and say for at least two seasons (one really, being brutally realistic). Maybe I am old fashioned but two seasons out of thirteen at senior level doesn't make him a "proper" right back. He's a reformed winger and in my eyes will remain a reformed winger for a few more years at least. I would guess he's probably made more starts in central midfield for Wigan and Equador than he has at RB for United. He went a large stretch playing as an attacking midfielder in his first season on loan at Wigan.
 
Not to mention Jose's other quote about wanting specialist players, which further rules Valencia out.
 
Tom Van Persie said:
This. His positioning is awful too seems to get caught out a lot and the times I even watched him for Italy he was shit. He's inept going forward and not good enough at defending. Darmian got off to a decent start for us had a few good games at the start of the season but it's been downhill since then. I have zero confidence in him.

Fabinho would be a perfect replacement. I'm sure we could sell Darmian back to a club in Italy for at least £10 million and then we could use that money to get Fabinho would will probably cost anywhere between 15M-20M.
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He reminds me of Dossena who played for Liverpool, just not cut out for the Prem at all.
 
svn said:
Valencia has played as a right back for 5 years now. I think we can consider him a "proper" right back now.
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Unless he got a reduction in the salary then he's still paid as a first team Man United winger. Do we really need to pay that amount for a makeshift fullback whose been moved that because he's too crap to play in his natural role?
 
My last post of the day so I won't be able to respond after this, but I do find those stats hard to believe. Valencia surely played more than 8 games as a right back under Sir Alex? Perhaps my memory is distorted over time, but it felt like a lot more than that.

The reason I said 5 years was because the first reference I could find to him playing right back was when he came on for Smalling at the start of the 11/12 season, so perhaps that was a bit misguided, but I think he has enough experience in that position now for it to be considered a proper position rather than a winger playing out of position.
 
svn said:
My last post of the day so I won't be able to respond after this, but I do find those stats hard to believe. Valencia surely played more than 8 games as a right back under Sir Alex? Perhaps my memory is distorted over time, but it felt like a lot more than that.

The reason I said 5 years was because the first reference I could find to him playing right back was when he came on for Smalling at the start of the 11/12 season, so perhaps that was a bit misguided, but I think he has enough experience in that position now for it to be considered a proper position rather than a winger playing out of position.
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You've wasted your last post of the day on arguing how many times Valencia has played at right back on a day like THIS???
 
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