Valencia is fine.
Other than when injured ,he'll start most games.
I can see Jose making him 3rd captain too.
Other than when injured ,he'll start most games.
I can see Jose making him 3rd captain too.
Our Right Back Position
- Thread starter Sparky Rhiwabon
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik (@Rood) is joined by CEO Duncan Drasdo and Financial Director Andy Green from the Manchester United Supporters Trust for a special episode on all things behind the scenes at Old Trafford including a brief history of MUST and their aims today, views on INEOS and Sir Jim Ratcliffe so far, and the Old Trafford regeneration.
Valencia is definitely the best RB. There's no doubt about it. We can only hope that Jose is able to turn Darmian into a decent player but I'm not expecting miracles.
I absolutely agree I am not making excuses for anybody, United is the greatest club in the world and if he does not perform he should not be playing.As simple as this. Nevertheless there was massive ubderperformance from all players who were above 21 under LVG. I am merely saying that having watched the lad I think he is a good player and he can be a starter for us. Whether he would do it or not is another question..
I think we should be fine with Valencia and Darmian for the season as our main RBs.
Agreed and TFM could also play there if needed
Don't understand what's the fuss about. Our RB position is well covered.
Valencia is one of the best offensive right backs in the world, which is important in most games (against "lesser" teams).
Then we have Darmian, who was considered one of the best RB's overall in the world before he joined us. He was Italians player of the year, who are not particularly known for not having good defenders. He had a very difficult first year in the PL, which applies to most former Serie A players...
Who should we go for anyway? I find those Fabinho claims quite ridiculous, probably largely by people who have never seen him play a single time. He is a decent defender, but he is mostly unproven, and didn't show nearly as much as Darmian did before he joined us. Huge doubts if he would be even our second RV, IF we signed him.
There are not to many RBs out there who would be an upgrade to what we have. We should have gone for Coleman years ago, but i think that ship has sailed by now...we are fine
Valencia is one of the best offensive right backs in the world, which is important in most games (against "lesser" teams).
Then we have Darmian, who was considered one of the best RB's overall in the world before he joined us. He was Italians player of the year, who are not particularly known for not having good defenders. He had a very difficult first year in the PL, which applies to most former Serie A players...
Who should we go for anyway? I find those Fabinho claims quite ridiculous, probably largely by people who have never seen him play a single time. He is a decent defender, but he is mostly unproven, and didn't show nearly as much as Darmian did before he joined us. Huge doubts if he would be even our second RV, IF we signed him.
There are not to many RBs out there who would be an upgrade to what we have. We should have gone for Coleman years ago, but i think that ship has sailed by now...we are fine
I like Tony and i'm not against going into the season with him as first choice. But since when has he been one of the best offensive right backs in the world? When has he even had a long stretch of form where he's been effective going forward as a RB?
He was good going forward towards the end of last season after his injury he got a few assists, but in 2015 most of his attacking effort from RB consisted of stopping and turning back and if he did get further trying to break defenders shins.
His form in pre season looks promising though, lets hope he carries that into the season.
If you have a better right back who is it? It's easy to endlessly criticise by offering a non-existent, perfect player, who never makes mistakes, can outplay every other fullback and winger, is able to deliver 10 perfect crosses every match. Such an alternative player is fiction.
Only RBs who are better in the offense in my opinion are Coleman and Walker. Bellerin has the potential to be better. Dani Alves used to be better. But apart from them i see no one. Other good RBs like Carvajal, Lahm, Juanfran, Aurier are all good players, better defenders then Valencia, but they are not better in pacing forwards, dribbling, off the ball movement, work rate and crossing...
So yes, i think he is currently one of the best 3 RBs in the world in the offense
What are you on about mate, did i say we should sell him or replace him no i did not?
Im not unfairly criticizing Valencia i am simply pointing out that he hasn't been that great going forward for the majority of his time playing for us as a right back or indeed in any position for about 4 years now never mind being one of the best attacking Fullbacks in the world. Im not alone in feeling that way either.
Also the idea that only a perfect fullback who is world class in every aspect of his game is good enough to replace Valencia is ludicrous mate honestly. Even as someone who likes Valencia the overrating of him by some in recent times is becoming ridiculous.
I think it would be an understatement mate if i told you i think you overrating Tonys offensive capabilities just a tad.
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Critizising anothers viewpoint is very easy as long as you don't have to present your own one
Ah that old chestnut, often wheeled out in this thread.
You think Valencia is one of the best attacking right backs in the world i disagree to say the least, our opinions on Valencia's level wildly differ so why would i bother writing walls of text to try to change your opinion on the matter? It would be a waste of my time.
If you think he's that good fair enough, i don't know based on what exactly but fair enough you are entitled to your opinion just as i am mine.
as long as you don't post an own opinion (e.g. "who would be better") your posting is absolutely useless. "Naysaying" it is called nowadays, isn't it. The most destructive form of public "discussion"
Oh give over mate seriously, i don't need to say who's i think is better to add to any discussion i have already given my opinion on his attacking contributions over the last few years. What evidence have you offered to prove he's one of the best around?
Some of you lot seem to think he's went from being an ineffective winger to one of the top 5 fullbacks in the world in just over a year when he actually hasn't. He's did well there and could improve and become a good fullback and maybe even a very good one if we are lucky but thats about it.
Any alternative fullback offered will be shot down by people who wildly overrate the guy, back and forth and round and round in circles we would go. Nothing would be achieved by such a discussion. It's already been done to death.
And besides no one even needs to mention other fullbacks who are better than Valencia to prove thats he's not one of the worlds top 5 or best in that position it's common sense. If he were one of the best in the world, football would be in a sad state of affairs and the dearth of talent in the game would be at an all time low. Thankfully thats not the case, there are still plenty of good fullbacks out there. And at least a dozen who many would rate as world class.
@stevoc
No one overrates Valencia that I know of. If you propose an new right-back, open a thread in the transfer forum; post your suggestion. Valencia fans simply point out that none of the alternatives suggested are better than him. It's not so much overrating Valencia as not rating the players Tony's critics want.
Why is this thread even here? There are already threads on Valencia, Darmian, and, even, Varela in the Player Performance Forum. Most of this thread is Darmian vs. Valencia. Most of the discussion here (Darmian vs. Valencia) is also in the player performance full-back threads. It's been done to death. There's also a Fabinho thread in the transfer forum. But few people have seen a lot of him. He plays for Monaco, much of the time as defensive midfield. Fabinho fans haven't put a convincing case for him as replacement RB.
I could understand this sniping at Valencia, all over the Cafe, if his critics had some much better player they want instead. But it seems to me it's just sniping for the sake of it, and replacing the old with the new on a wish. A bit like replacing Nani with Memphis! A sort of why not? The answer to why not is: you are more likely to end up with an inferior player.
No one overrates Valencia that I know of. If you propose an new right-back, open a thread in the transfer forum; post your suggestion. Valencia fans simply point out that none of the alternatives suggested are better than him. It's not so much overrating Valencia as not rating the players Tony's critics want.
Why is this thread even here? There are already threads on Valencia, Darmian, and, even, Varela in the Player Performance Forum. Most of this thread is Darmian vs. Valencia. Most of the discussion here (Darmian vs. Valencia) is also in the player performance full-back threads. It's been done to death. There's also a Fabinho thread in the transfer forum. But few people have seen a lot of him. He plays for Monaco, much of the time as defensive midfield. Fabinho fans haven't put a convincing case for him as replacement RB.
I could understand this sniping at Valencia, all over the Cafe, if his critics had some much better player they want instead. But it seems to me it's just sniping for the sake of it, and replacing the old with the new on a wish. A bit like replacing Nani with Memphis! A sort of why not? The answer to why not is: you are more likely to end up with an inferior player.
Yep, I agree
Have you read the last page mate?
So that isn't overrating him?
And this is your post, maybe i am misinterpreting what you are trying to say here and apologies if i am. But it sounds like you are saying the only way we can improve on Valencia is to sign the perfect fullback. We wouldn't need to sign a perfect fullback to improve on Valencia we would only need to sign a top fullback which Valencia is not clearly.
I didn't create it, his performance thread i imagine is to discuss his performances, this thread given the title i would hazard a guess is to discuss our full back position in general. Seeing as Valencia now plays there it seems obvious he will come up in conversation.
Who's sniping me? Please point out where i am sniping mate?
In my last few posts i have said i like Valencia, i would be happy to go into the season with him as first choice, i think he's done well since moving to right back, and i think/hope he could improve and become very good there and that he has been in good form in pre-season.
Oh i'm really tearing into him there.
Valencia should have been gone a few seasons ago. We need a proper right back to compete with Darmian.
Valencia dribble? When? He is one dimensional, shift onto his right foot and smash. He never was a dribbler and that comment boggles the mind. As for his so called off the ball movement he hugs the touchline, rarely ventures infield but thats not really an issue to be fair but strange all the same that it is highlighted as one of his strengths. As for his crossing the less said about it the better but to state Lahm for one is a worse crosser than Tony is bananas.
I am not comparing Valencia with Bale or Messi. I am comparing him with other RBs. Which RB can really dribble? Coleman is very fast and overruns opponents, but he doesn't do more then shifting onto his right foot as well. Same for Walker. Same for Juanfran or Carvajal. Those players are all right backs for a reason. His crossing is definitely good, he was hampered by LvGs strange tactics, but we saw under Sir Alex, and in the pre season as well how well a crosser he is. Just wait for the season
You should read. I never said that he is better in everything then those players, only the majority. He is not a better crosser then Lahm, but he is way way faster, stronger,and gets the ball up the field (which Lahm can't do). So he provides a team with more attacking threat then Lahm would do (now, not 3 years ago).
I think the error a lot of people, including stevoc are making, to compare RBs with offensive flairy players or technical wonderkids. Just look out there, look what RBs are out there in the world. Valencia surely doesn't have to hide. Look what the so called best teams in europe have at RB: Aleix Vidal, Lichtsteiner/Dani Alves, Carvajal, Lahm, Aurier/Meunier. Or our toughest rivals(?!) Ivanovic, Sagna/Zabaleta...... Valencia surely doesn't have to hide from anyone of them.
Valencia one of the best offensive RBs and better than Alves, deary me!
I just think you're so, so wrong that if you have those views I can't debate with you as it would be a waste of our time given we have totally opposite opinions. But I dare to say, if you really like football you should pay more attention to Dani Carvajal when he's playing, you're obviously missing out a wonderful footballer if you think he's inferior to Valencia in any way
Yes what kind of question is that?
Valencia is better than Alves going forward? haa potential to be better? Surely that guy is taking a piss or hasn't seen Barcelona play at all
I was quite satisfied with what I've seen from Valencia in preseason but obviously we should look in the market sooner rather than later because if Valencia's injured we are quite fecked, because Darmian is just shit and Timothy is too young and played out of position, Jose might start Young there as well but that's similar as with Valencia, or Jones and that might be a slight upgrade on Darmian but underwhelming decision overall back to the centerback on the touchline days
Darmian is not 'shit' ffs
If he didn't have two right feet he might've been one of the best attacking fullbacks in the world. But as it is, many of our attacks in recent seasons have broken down because of his predictability.
Could not possibly disagree more, Valencia as an offensive outlet is as blunt as a spoon.
Wow! Did somebody consider Tony to be in the top 3 RBs in the world!
He's not in the top 3 RBs in the world. He's not even in the top 3 RBs in the premier league. In fact, I am not sure he's even in the best 3 RBs in MANCHESTER!
He's not in the top 3 RBs in the world. He's not even in the top 3 RBs in the premier league. In fact, I am not sure he's even in the best 3 RBs in MANCHESTER!
I wasn't having a go or anything mate, you asked people to list realistic targets. I was just interested if you thought there were other right backs out there who you think are better than Tony V but that we couldn't get.
That is all.
The history says that Valencia can't play at high level for the whole season (for injuries).
The rb is one of our biggest problem
The rb is one of our biggest problem
Nearly fell out of my chair, jesus christ.
This is the funniest thing. What a WUM .
Don't worry guys, by now i have become quite used to trolls laughing at my posts. Until (half) a year later when they realize that i was right
the case with every second post. You guys should watch more footballWe are completely fine with Valencia and Darmian, better equipped on RB then most top clubs (Barcelona for example).
If only Rafael was still around...now there was a great right back*
*when not injured
*when not injured
Don't worry guys, by now i have become quite used to trolls laughing at my posts. Until (half) a year later when they realize that i was right
We are completely fine with Valencia and Darmian, better equipped on RB then most top clubs (Barcelona for example).
Interesting what other bold predictions on the level of Valencia becoming one of the worlds top 3 right backs did you make that came true?
Genuinely interested.
I still cant get used to the fact that Valencia is often so poor going forward despite being a winger for most of his career
out of my head statements i made, and got similar "feedback":
- not wanting Pedro because he is shit: last summer
- saying that Martial is a world beater, and we should go for him all in: 2 month before he was under discussion to join us
- saying that Martial is miles better then Pedro, and the best that could have happened to us: at the day he joined
- saying that Dzeko is worse then most first striker choices of the so called lesser teams in the PL, and will struggle for any goals in Serie A: last summer
- saying that Schweinsteiger will struggle to get into the first team, because in individual class those Bayern midfielders are (were) not much better then our midfielders, and the midfield domination is more of a psychological thing: when he joined
btw: i have never said that Valencia is one of the top3 defenders, nor will he become. You should learn to read properly