Our Right Back Position

Celestiale said:
out of my head statements i made, and got similar "feedback":
- not wanting Pedro because he is shit: last summer
- saying that Martial is a world beater, and we should go for him all in: 2 month before he was under discussion to join us
- saying that Martial is miles better then Pedro, and the best that could have happened to us: at the day he joined
- saying that Dzeko is worse then most first striker choices of the so called lesser teams in the PL, and will struggle for any goals in Serie A: last summer
- saying that Schweinsteiger will struggle to get into the first team, because in individual class those Bayern midfielders are (were) not much better then our midfielders, and the midfield domination is more of a psychological thing: when he joined
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Right cheers so you predicted all those on here, if someone were to search your post history they would find these predictions?

Ok what did you also predict that didn't come true or are you some sort of footballing nostradamus?

Also not sure all those actually came true Schweinsteiger was first choice before his injury, and to be fair none of them are really on the level of predicting Valencia will be one of the worlds top fullbacks.
 
stevoc said:
Right cheers so you predicted all those on here, if someone were to search your post history they would find these predictions?

Ok what did you also predict that didn't come true or are you some sort of footballing nostradamus?

Also not sure all those actually came true Schweinsteiger was first choice before his injury, and to be fair none of them are really on the level of predicting Valencia will be one of the worlds top fullbacks.
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In the newbies, where i was after i joined this forum.
No footballing nostradamus, just an idea about the game. My "predictions" haven't been predictions, rather proper analyzation of the current situation, and deduction to the new season. If i would be footballing nostradamus i would have bet on Leicester, i haven't.
Schweinsteiger wasn't first choice, he got some starts, that doesn't make a player first choice.
Please, just stop this Valencia nonsense, putting words in my mouth.
 
Celestiale said:
Don't worry guys, by now i have become quite used to trolls laughing at my posts. Until (half) a year later when they realize that i was right :) the case with every second post. You guys should watch more football

We are completely fine with Valencia and Darmian, better equipped on RB then most top clubs (Barcelona for example).
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Oh dear. You're going to label people trolls for laughing at that statement?

Maybe you are well equipped at right back, I'm not really arsed. What I found funny was you calling Valencia one of the best attacking full backs in the world. The fact that even on a United forum you're being laughed at (a place where people watch a lot of United and have reason to be bias) says a lot really, doesn't it?

I love the arrogance too, I tell you what, if in half a year Valencia has transformed, I'll admit my mistake. Don't tell me to watch more football just because you think you're right about something.
 
Celestiale said:
In the newbies, where i was after i joined this forum.
No footballing nostradamus, just an idea about the game. My "predictions" haven't been predictions, rather proper analyzation of the current situation, and deduction to the new season. If i would be footballing nostradamus i would have bet on Leicester, i haven't.
Schweinsteiger wasn't first choice, he got some starts, that doesn't make a player first choice.
Please, just stop this Valencia nonsense, putting words in my mouth.
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This has got to be the most pompous statement I've ever read.
 
Celestiale said:
In the newbies, where i was after i joined this forum.
No footballing nostradamus, just an idea about the game. My "predictions" haven't been predictions, rather proper analyzation of the current situation, and deduction to the new season. If i would be footballing nostradamus i would have bet on Leicester, i haven't.
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In the newbies right makes sense, youre right they are not predictions at all just opinions that everyone has. Most of them 50/50 calls, a lot of people think every young player we sign will be a world beater. And i suspect for everything you've got right you have also got plenty wrong like the rest of us nothing to do with proper analyzation.

Celestiale said:
Please, just stop this Valencia nonsense, putting words in my mouth.
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To be fair i've done no such thing mate, that was all you.

Celestiale said:
So yes, i think he is currently one of the best 3 RBs in the world in the offense
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stevoc said:
In the newbies right makes sense, youre right they are not predictions at all just opinions that everyone has. Most of them 50/50 calls, a lot of people think every young player we sign will be a world beater. And i suspect for everything you've got right you have also got plenty wrong like the rest of us nothing to do with proper analyzation.



To be fair i've done no such thing mate, that was all you.
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You are welcome to look through my newbie posts, and how much "i got wrong". :)
Yes, a lot of people think that, nothing to do with our discussion.
Yeah i was always saying that he is good in the offense, said nothing about his defense skills, or how good he is as a RB overall. Just said we are fine with Darmian and him :)
Like i already said..people have to learn to read properly
 
Celestiale said:
yes i do. Same trolls like all those "fans" raving about Rooney, wishing him out of the team, etc etc. Tavern's expertise at it's finest.
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You've made an outlandish statement, and then branded people trolls for laughing at it. Calling Valencia 'one of the best attacking fullbacks in the world' is obviously going to get a response. You're probably one of the very few people in the world that holds that opinion, and for good reason.
 
Celestiale said:
You are welcome to look through my newbie posts, and how much "i got wrong". :)
Yes, a lot of people think that, nothing to do with our discussion.
Yeah i was always saying that he is good in the offense, said nothing about his defense skills, or how good he is as a RB overall. Just said we are fine with Darmian and him :)
Like i already said..people have to learn to read properly
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Well full members can't see the newbie section so i'll take your word for it mate.

In all seriousness mate not being a dick genuine question, what are you basing rating Valencia's offensive capabilities so highly on?

Over the last 4 years (and i hate to say it as he is one of my favourite players) but he has been woeful going forward. I just don't see where you're coming from, his performance last night was Valencia going forward over the last few years in a nutshell. Lots of running up the pitch then stopping, stalling, turning and passing back. Not taking a man on or beating him and of course a few obligatory shin smashes to win a corner. He put in one nice cross that i remember.
 
We'veGotDeleAlli said:
You've made an outlandish statement, and then branded people trolls for laughing at it. Calling Valencia 'one of the best attacking fullbacks in the world' is obviously going to get a response. You're probably one of the very few people in the world that holds that opinion, and for good reason.
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Majorities opinion isn't necessarily the right opinion. Quite the opposite in fact. It's guided by sensational yellow press headlines..again, Rooney is the perfect example. Anyway, don't have the time to argue about nonsense anymore.
stevoc said:
Well full members can't see the newbie section so i'll take your word for it mate.

In all seriousness mate not being a dick genuine question, what are you basing rating Valencia's offensive capabilities so highly on?

Over the last 4 years (and i hate to say it as he is one of my favourite players) but he has been woeful going forward. I just don't see where you're coming from, his performance last night was Valencia going forward over the last few years in a nutshell. Lots of running up the pitch then stopping, stalling, turning and passing back. Not taking a man on or beating him and of course a few obligatory shin smashes to win a corner. He put in one nice cross that i remember.
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I think 4 years is a little exaggerated, he had a bed spell however, i agree. After his bad injury he wasn't the same anymore for quite a while.
However his participation in offensive play has always been good, he did quite some overlapping runs, is found in forward positions a lot. And his crosses are good as well - if they are not blocked. I think e showed real promise in this pre-season, a lot of very good crosses, with his 3 assists against Gala the peak. I think he was quite good yesterday as well. 2 good crosses, won a lot of corners, which surely isn't bad. I don't think he is a world beater, but just look at the current situation. There are just no good right backs, nowhere. Not talking about the market, talking about all there are. They are just not good footballers. Barcelona has absolute rubbish at RB, Bayern has old, slow Lahm, and noone else, major countries like Germany or Belgium put center backs there, because they don't have good RBs at all. There is a sever shortness, and due to this shortness Valencia is one of the best. The only genuine masterclass right backs on the planet currently are Coleman and Aurier in my opinion, with Carvajal and Bellerin on the way to get there. That's it. Lahm and Alves are past it. The rest are just average footballers, same as Valencia. Darmian was Italy's player of the year, best RB in Serie A, and even he can't/couldn't push Valencia out of the starting 11. There is just no one available, who would be an assured, real upgrade to Tony.
 
Celestiale said:
Majorities opinion isn't necessarily the right opinion. Quite the opposite in fact. It's guided by sensational yellow press headlines..again, Rooney is the perfect example. Anyway, don't have the time to argue about nonsense anymore.
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Majority opinion isn't always right, but that doesn't mean every ridiculous opinion is right either. Valencia isn't one of the best attacking fullbacks in the world, he's not even one of the best attacking fullbacks in the league - Coleman, Bellerin and Walker are all ahead of him easily.

If you're going to assert a ridiculous opinion, at least provide an argument, rather than dismissing everybody else as trolls. Yellow press headlines? From who? The press aren't talking about Antonio Valencia, so it's barely an influence on people's opinions.
 
It looks like Valencia and Darmian will compete for the role this season and Jose will evaluate things next summer.
 
We'veGotDeleAlli said:
Valencia isn't one of the best attacking fullbacks in the world, he's not even one of the best attacking fullbacks in the league - Coleman, Bellerin and Walker are all ahead of him easily.
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That's what i said pretty much :rolleyes:, great in repeating :) Bellerin isn't there yet though, but pretty much on par. Furthermore there are not too many great (attacking) right backs outside the PL.
 
Celestiale said:
That's what i said pretty much :rolleyes:, great in repeating :) Bellerin isn't there yet though, but pretty much on par. Furthermore there are not too many great (attacking) right backs outside the PL.
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..Then how on earth is he one of the best attacking full backs in the world? What you're saying just shows a horrible knowledge of football outside of the Premier League. There's plenty of better attacking fullbacks around - Danilo, Florenzi, Carvajal, Dani Alves, Lichtsteiner, Aurier...some of these names have already been mentioned in this thread, and they're absolutely better going forward than Valencia. They may not make as many speedy runs, but they are far better in terms of end product.

When you've got that many right backs better than you going forward, how on earth can you be one of the best attacking full backs in the world? It's just an incorrect statement. Of course Bellerin is there by the way, he played better as a right back last season than Valencia has in his entire career. Valencia has done nothing, ever, to suggest he's a better right back than him, so how is Bellerin not there yet? By what logic?
 
We'veGotDeleAlli said:
..Then how on earth is he one of the best attacking full backs in the world? What you're saying just shows a horrible knowledge of football outside of the Premier League. There's plenty of better attacking fullbacks around - Danilo, Florenzi, Carvajal, Dani Alves, Lichtsteiner, Aurier...some of these names have already been mentioned in this thread, and they're absolutely better going forward than Valencia. They may not make as many speedy runs, but they are far better in terms of end product.
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But, but... he got 3 assists in a friendly a couple of days ago! ***analyzation of situtation and deduction of new season activated***
 
We'veGotDeleAlli said:
..Then how on earth is he one of the best attacking full backs in the world? What you're saying just shows a horrible knowledge of football outside of the Premier League. There's plenty of better attacking fullbacks around - Danilo, Florenzi, Carvajal, Dani Alves, Lichtsteiner, Aurier...some of these names have already been mentioned in this thread, and they're absolutely better going forward than Valencia. They may not make as many speedy runs, but they are far better in terms of end product.

When you've got that many right backs better than you going forward, how on earth can you be one of the best attacking full backs in the world? It's just an incorrect statement. Of course Bellerin is there by the way, he played better as a right back last season than Valencia has in his entire career. Valencia has done nothing, ever, to suggest he's a better right back than him, so how is Bellerin not there yet? By what logic?
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Even Varela is a better attacking full back than Valencia
 
Celestiale said:
I think 4 years is a little exaggerated, he had a bed spell however, i agree. After his bad injury he wasn't the same anymore for quite a while.
However his participation in offensive play has always been good, he did quite some overlapping runs, is found in forward positions a lot. And his crosses are good as well - if they are not blocked. I think e showed real promise in this pre-season, a lot of very good crosses, with his 3 assists against Gala the peak. I think he was quite good yesterday as well. 2 good crosses, won a lot of corners, which surely isn't bad. I don't think he is a world beater, but just look at the current situation. There are just no good right backs, nowhere. Not talking about the market, talking about all there are. They are just not good footballers. Barcelona has absolute rubbish at RB, Bayern has old, slow Lahm, and noone else, major countries like Germany or Belgium put center backs there, because they don't have good RBs at all. There is a sever shortness, and due to this shortness Valencia is one of the best. The only genuine masterclass right backs on the planet currently are Coleman and Aurier in my opinion, with Carvajal and Bellerin on the way to get there. That's it. Lahm and Alves are past it. The rest are just average footballers, same as Valencia. Darmian was Italy's player of the year, best RB in Serie A, and even he can't/couldn't push Valencia out of the starting 11. There is just no one available, who would be an assured, real upgrade to Tony.
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I think he's been limited attacking wise since Fergusons last season, the last time he was consistently effective going forward was the title run-in in 2012.

But anyway fair enough mate, you are entitled to your opinion i don't see it myself i personally.
 
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stevoc said:
I think he's been limited attacking wise since Fergusons last season, the last time he was consistently effective going forward was the title run-in in 2012.

But anyway fair enough mate, you are entitled to your opinion i don't see it myself i personally.
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Names?
 
stevoc said:
I think he's been limited attacking wise since Fergusons last season, the last time he was consistently effective going forward was the title run-in in 2012.

But anyway fair enough mate, you are entitled to your opinion i don't see it myself i personally.
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If you'd manage ManUnited in FM17, who would you buy for RB? Just interested :-)
 
stevoc said:
Richard, John, Thomas, Andrew, William, Patrick, James, Martin is that enough?

Whats your point?
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You bolded

There is just no one available, who would be an assured, real upgrade to Tony.
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from @Celestiale s post and said:

But anyway fair enough mate, you are entitled to your opinion i don't see it myself i personally.
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in a clear response to that line as you bolded 2 areas and had (and still do) 2 separate paragraphs talking about those 2 different areas.

Now I go back to your post, and it seems you have unbolded that line (you can even see the edit mark on your post) because you have no response to my question and try to pass it off with a stupid joke
 
Sigma said:
You bolded



from @Celestiale s post and said:



in a clear response to that line as you bolded 2 areas and had (and still do) 2 separate paragraphs talking about those 2 different areas.

Now I go back to your post, and it seems you have unbolded that line (you can even see the edit mark on your post) because you have no response to my question and try to pass it off with a stupid joke
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Haha great detective work but wrong mate check Celestiale's original post which i replied to he bolded the second part i only bolded the first part.

So your question was made on a false assumption. I was replying to Celestiales opinion that Valencia is effective going forward.
 
stevoc said:
Haha great detective work but wrong mate check Celestiale's original post which i replied to he bolded the second part i only bolded the first part.

So your question was made on a false assumption. I was replying to Celestiales opinion that Valencia is effective going forward.
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OK.

Shit :lol:
 
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stevoc said:
I wasn't having a go or anything mate, you asked people to list realistic targets. I was just interested if you thought there were other right backs out there who you think are better than Tony V but that we couldn't get.

That is all.
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Right sorry about that.
What I meant was that there is always going to be unrealistic targets IMO. For example as bad as a 1v1 defender Bellerin is, I would still love to have him here but that is highly unlikely. Always been a fan of Pizcek from Dortmund but never gonna happen. Lahm, Carvajal, and Walker are pretty damn good too but it is almost impossible to get them.
 
I can't consider Varela a fullback ...he is very reminiscent fof Alexander Buttner: can attack but has no freaking clue how to defend.
 
Obiorahking_ said:
Right sorry about that.
What I meant was that there is always going to be unrealistic targets IMO. For example as bad as a 1v1 defender Bellerin is, I would still love to have him here but that is highly unlikely. Always been a fan of Pizcek from Dortmund but never gonna happen. Lahm, Carvajal, and Walker are pretty damn good too but it is almost impossible to get them.
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No worries mate, Walker would be gettable but i don't know if he would be worth the fee Spurs would fleece us for. Levy would be looking for silly money.

Carvajal would be my choice but as you say no chance Real would sell him, and even if they did not to United as we are probably not their favourite club right now.
 
To me it looks like Valencia is comfortably our first choice right-back, I personally rate him, but I also think Mourinho trusts him. Mourinho will give Darmian his chance in the cups.

Just educated guesswork though.
 
Valencia looks like first choice, which isn't ideal imho, Valencia isn't bad but imho we can do a lot better there, Antonio is quality going forward when he remembers how to cross, but defensively I am still not sure about him.

Darmian was a bit inconsistent last year but still looks okay, again not ideal or the best we can do though, I'd say he's better defensively than Valencia but offers much less going forward.
 
One big injury to Valencia and you are reliant on Darmian for a large chunk of the season. For me that is not a good position to be in. Definitely expect a signing in this position.
 
Raees said:
One big injury to Valencia and you are reliant on Darmian for a large chunk of the season. For me that is not a good position to be in. Definitely expect a signing in this position.
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All teams have the same problem. We have TFM and Darmian as cover anyway. If we are to make a new signing, it should be for someone who will be better than Valencia, not as a cover for him.
 
Do people honestly rate Kyle Walker, he's absolute trash. Valencia is a million times better than him tbh.
 
abhayselvan said:
All teams have the same problem. We have TFM and Darmian as cover anyway. If we are to make a new signing, it should be for someone who will be better than Valencia, not as a cover for him.
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That is my point.. it is a dire situation to be in where we are in an even worse position at right back if Valencia gets injured. New signing should be first choice and Valencia back up.. that would be a solid right back combination for the season.
 
Obiorahking_ said:
I can't consider Varela a fullback ...he is very reminiscent fof Alexander Buttner: can attack but has no freaking clue how to defend.
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Same was said about Alves, Alba and Bernart. It only takes a good manager to add that to their game. I hoped that Jose would train him defensively.
 
Dont we have any talented youth player at RB? Heard something about a young man called "Olosunde". Jose has said that he never got the chance to actually settle and work with youth at a club. Hope he can do it this time. Lets say: Valencia still has 2/3 years in him left before we need to replace him. I hope he sees Immensah as a midfielder/Cb (Next to Pogba in midfield :drool:) rather than a RB.
 
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