Our weak attack

I think this may be a generational thing, but could someone answer me this question:

Do you honestly watch Martial - Rashford- Lindgard, and think that front three would enable Manchester United to win a premier league ? Get anywhere close to winning a Champions League?

I do not. Why ? Because I think two (Martial and Lindgard) are not even close to achieving the consistency of performance required. I also think they actually lack the level of ability, and quality a club like United, or any big club for that matter, need to win big trophies. Ability is far, far, far more than the odd dribble, or handful of goals.. it's application, game development, consistency, defining and leading games etc. Look at Pogba as an example. Or Hazard. Or Kane. Or Griezmann, Lewandoski, Rooney when he was playing etc.. Our front three are not even close to those players, and such players should be the level of comparison that we would aspire to as Man United. We used to, and I worry that there is thinking that we should no longer be a club that aims to reach, and attract such players.

I do not include Rashford, because he is clearly beginning to show his potential, and the development of his game, now on a consistent level. He is a fixture in the national team, and he is far more than just goals. He inspires our team. But he is not world-class, is still proving himself, and is still learning his trade. But he is beginning to show his star quality, and match-winning ability. It's wonderful to observe.

Sanchez has the quality and experience, but we are not sure about his fitness, and we need to know where his head is at. But a fit, and performing Sanchez starts for United, there is no doubt about that.

We need better forwards. To win the League and to compete and possibly win the Champions League, we need better forwards. And this does not mean that our forwards are rubbish, or I am slagging them off. I am not. But I can't see them as being good enough to call themselves the leading line at Manchester United.

But I would be interested in the thoughts of others because what I read on here, sometimes surprises me.
 
As most of the lads have mentioned above, all about RW, Rashford is looking good as our number 9 for the foreseeable future. I can't see Lukaku being happy sitting on the bench so if he were to go, I would promote Greenwood to Rashford's back up permanently.

As for the RW, not to sure who you would get, Douglas Costa has been mentioned could be a decent option (although never been his biggest fan), the lad at PSV looks good, can't think of his name and that Williams at Bilbao has been talked about a fair bit. I would definitely go all out for a top class RW in the summer.

After that it depends on departures, if Mata goes, new RW in with Lingard as his back up, if Sanchez goes maybe a back up for Martial on the left or promote Gomes from the U23's.

As or other departments, we could do with a DMC with Matic being his back up (Neves would be my shout), CB to go alongside Lindelof, maybe a RB as well. Think Young can be understudy to Shaw for another season next year with Valencia going to Inter, top class RB would be good.
 
Adisa said:
We need a bloody winger. Just look at our heatmaps. Barely anything on our right side. Fecking ridiculous.
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right winger is needed, but even an attacking right back could provide us with our width on that flank, right now we don't have either
 
Our attack isn't weak, but it does need help on the right flank.

Lingard doesn't chip in enough individually considering the attention Martial / Pogba create on the left side.

If we had a young Ronaldo on the right wing with all the space we have right now, we'd score bucket loads.
 
@Jeffthered. I'm sorry but I don't agree with you. The attack has been mismanaged for 2 years and still put in performances to show their talent, this is why people didn't lose faith in Martial and Rashford inparcticular when they were subjected to scrutiny because we can see the conditions they were playing compared to other attackers in the league. Under a different manager and with different voice they're being coached on one to one basis and finally there happy and enjoying their football. No-one has scored more than martial since he arrived to the team and hes now ready to sign new contract. Rashford is currently the inform striker of the PL and with trust of manager is playing with new freedom. It's really reminiscent of Rooney and Ronaldo in their early days around 05-06 but it wasn't until 06-09 that we started winning again when we added the likes of Nani, Tevez etc to complete our attack. We don't need to attract ready made starts, we should make them ourselves. Hazard wasnt world class when Chelsea bought him was he? They were patient and over span of 5/6 years he became one of the best three in his position in the world. Plus It's not like the attackers you mentioned are match winners everyweek- they have poor games too yknow? Martial and Rashford only have two goals less than Hazard in prem just to add so it's not like theyre far away like you make it sound.
Or strike a balance between buying attackers and developing the ones we already have. Greenwood will be the next one to come through and it'll be very exciting to watch his development.
lingard isn't as talented as the others but he still has place in the squad and shown himself very capable in big matches but I do think going forward he'll be the one to makeway for quality attacker.

Plus I'm not even sure how anyone can watch us this season and direct their complaints on the attack whilst watching the defence leaking goals like a sieve. 34 goals conceded, very clear where we need to address.
 
Personally, Think our front 3 are brilliant. Great balance of skill pace and work rate, and as back up Mata, Lukaku and Sanchez is pretty awesome.

I think the only issue is basically we have had 2 + years where the attacking coaching, man management and strategy has been dreadful. A year or so of good coaching and a manager with a strategy who doesn't spend all his time saying players aren't good enough or not ready and then I would take that front 6 over pretty much anyone, maybe with City still edging it.
 
Santoryo said:
Our attack is not weak. So tiring to hear nonsense like these while at the same people seeing posts over rating other teams attacks.

As shown since Ole took over we have one of the best attack in the league and that's a fact, we're scoring at an incredible rate as well. Saying our attack is weak is a myth by now. Sure we can always upgrade and bring in a RW but by no mean is our attack weak.

We have a usually 25 goals a season striker as a sub, as well as Sanchez on the bench. How on earth is out attack weak?
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The grass is always greener on the other side. We are potentially two thirds of the way to completing our next great attack and just as we have chance to witness their development under attacking manager after complaining for two years they were being stifled threads like this pop up. It's by no means perfect but who has it perfect these days? Messi, Suarez, Neymar= 122 goals. That's perfect I would say.
 
Our fullbacks certainly aren't helping.

Our attackers are being asked to supply the width as well as their more natural game of coming inside. If we can consistent quality width from our fullbacks it'll make a big difference.

Although we're crying out for someone in the Lingard position
 
Red Devil Rising said:
Our fullbacks certainly aren't helping.

Our attackers are being asked to supply the width as well as their more natural game of coming inside. If we can consistent quality width from our fullbacks it'll make a big difference.

Although we're crying out for someone in the Lingard position
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Griezmann was the answer but since he didn't came it feels like United officials are clueless who'll be the right player, especially with lack of DoF who could suggest the right candidate.

Lack of real full backs will hurt this team in upcoming years. 100% agree on this one.
 
Adam-Utd said:
Our attack isn't weak, but it does need help on the right flank.

Lingard doesn't chip in enough individually considering the attention Martial / Pogba create on the left side.

If we had a young Ronaldo on the right wing with all the space we have right now, we'd score bucket loads.
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You say our attack isnt weak. I think we have Martial and Rashford who are great and then a group of players who are meh. Sanchez done nothing in 12 months here. Lukaku has been horribly exposed this season. Lingard runs around a lot whilst seemingly doing very little.
 
red4ever 79 said:
You say our attack isnt weak. I think we have Martial and Rashford who are great and then a group of players who are meh. Sanchez done nothing in 12 months here. Lukaku has been horribly exposed this season. Lingard runs around a lot whilst seemingly doing very little.
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What other teams have amazing strength of depth like that? Hardly anybody.

Lukaku and Sanchez are first team player for many other teams.
 
We need to sort out our right wing and then just be patient with Martial and Rashford like we were with Rooney and Ronaldo. Buying someone to put one of them on the bench then would have been a mistake just like it would be a mistake now.

Tbh i dont see us seriously challenging next season. Doesnt mean it cant be a good season, but the year after is when we should be aiming to have a serious push with the hope to win. Next season everyone is still pretty young, and if we make the right signings it could be like that second half of 05/06 where we really improved but wasnt quite enough. Then hopefully our squad kind of peaks together in 20/21, Rashford, Martial both being world class, right wing being sorted, Pogba over 1.5 years of consistency and an established star/possibly captain, midfield replacements sorted out and most importantly i would hope the back 4 is sorted.

Theres too many changes this summer with the combination of giving the younger guys time to make the step up and the added responsibility as key players, fixing our defence and right wing and then the season after making the final touches and bringing in a top midfielder to replace Matic basically. We need to focus on becoming a dominant side, do well in the cups and then a title push the next year.
 
Isotope said:
Under SAF, the team never rely on only young player to lead the attack. There was Rooney or Ronaldo, but we had RVN as the main man. Now we have Rashford and Martial, who both still need at least a couple years to be ready, imho. Btw, don't tell me Lukaku as our main striker.
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In 06/07? Ruud was sold.
 
abdo99 said:
@Jeffthered. I'm sorry but I don't agree with you. The attack has been mismanaged for 2 years and still put in performances to show their talent, this is why people didn't lose faith in Martial and Rashford inparcticular when they were subjected to scrutiny because we can see the conditions they were playing compared to other attackers in the league. Under a different manager and with different voice they're being coached on one to one basis and finally there happy and enjoying their football. No-one has scored more than martial since he arrived to the team and hes now ready to sign new contract. Rashford is currently the inform striker of the PL and with trust of manager is playing with new freedom. It's really reminiscent of Rooney and Ronaldo in their early days around 05-06 but it wasn't until 06-09 that we started winning again when we added the likes of Nani, Tevez etc to complete our attack. We don't need to attract ready made starts, we should make them ourselves. Hazard wasnt world class when Chelsea bought him was he? They were patient and over span of 5/6 years he became one of the best three in his position in the world. Plus It's not like the attackers you mentioned are match winners everyweek- they have poor games too yknow? Martial and Rashford only have two goals less than Hazard in prem just to add so it's not like theyre far away like you make it sound.
Or strike a balance between buying attackers and developing the ones we already have. Greenwood will be the next one to come through and it'll be very exciting to watch his development.
lingard isn't as talented as the others but he still has place in the squad and shown himself very capable in big matches but I do think going forward he'll be the one to makeway for quality attacker.

Plus I'm not even sure how anyone can watch us this season and direct their complaints on the attack whilst watching the defence leaking goals like a sieve. 34 goals conceded, very clear where we need to address.
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I appreciate the mis-management of players, has had an incredibly debilitating impact on a number of our players. Rashford, Martial, Luke Shaw, Bailly, Sanchez... Mourinho should take a very long hard look in the mirror, because he was awful towards the end of his time at OT.

But... aside from that, I ask the question of whether these players could fire us to the Premiership, and compete in Champions League. I shared my thoughts, and I am not clear on yours. I do not think any of our front three are are as good as a young Rooney or Ronaldo, sorry, no way. Rashford could fashion his own legacy, but we shouldn't heap too much on his shoulders yet. Lindgard and Martial, I think they both need to provide a level of consistency, and influence that I simply have not seen. They provide interventions, but not inspiration. They don't change how we play, or perform, regularly. Not enough. They are good, but Premiership winning players? Like Aguero? Silva? De Bruyne? Vardy and Mahrez when Leicester won? These are players that were defining the shape of the Premiership, with their performances. Rashford is beginning to achieve this now, and we hope he can further develop, and that is what excites us. But I can't see Martial or Lindgard in that way. I am sorry, but I just cannot and it's a big shame. Maybe they may prove me wrong, and those who may share my views, but I don't see these qualities, that personality in these two players.
 
Jeffthered said:
I think this may be a generational thing, but could someone answer me this question:

Do you honestly watch Martial - Rashford- Lindgard, and think that front three would enable Manchester United to win a premier league ? Get anywhere close to winning a Champions League?

I do not. Why ? Because I think two (Martial and Lindgard) are not even close to achieving the consistency of performance required. I also think they actually lack the level of ability, and quality a club like United, or any big club for that matter, need to win big trophies. Ability is far, far, far more than the odd dribble, or handful of goals.. it's application, game development, consistency, defining and leading games etc. Look at Pogba as an example. Or Hazard. Or Kane. Or Griezmann, Lewandoski, Rooney when he was playing etc.. Our front three are not even close to those players, and such players should be the level of comparison that we would aspire to as Man United. We used to, and I worry that there is thinking that we should no longer be a club that aims to reach, and attract such players.

I do not include Rashford, because he is clearly beginning to show his potential, and the development of his game, now on a consistent level. He is a fixture in the national team, and he is far more than just goals. He inspires our team. But he is not world-class, is still proving himself, and is still learning his trade. But he is beginning to show his star quality, and match-winning ability. It's wonderful to observe.

Sanchez has the quality and experience, but we are not sure about his fitness, and we need to know where his head is at. But a fit, and performing Sanchez starts for United, there is no doubt about that.

We need better forwards. To win the League and to compete and possibly win the Champions League, we need better forwards. And this does not mean that our forwards are rubbish, or I am slagging them off. I am not. But I can't see them as being good enough to call themselves the leading line at Manchester United.

But I would be interested in the thoughts of others because what I read on here, sometimes surprises me.
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I agree with Lingard but Martial was absolutely amazing in his first season here. He could definitely be world class. We need a right winger though, no doubt about that.
 
bosnian_red said:
Tbh i dont see us seriously challenging next season.
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Depends on the business we do (or don't do) this summer. I don't think this team is too far off competing for the league if we address key areas (RW, CB, CDM, FB depth) and our younger players contine to progress (Rashford, Martial, Lindelof, Shaw, Dalot, Bailly).

It's not impossible anyways.
 
Martial and Rashford up front is far from “weak”. We definitely need to upgrade at RW but the weakness in the squad is on the back line and that needs to be addressed first.

It will be interesting to see whether Sanchez can get the bit between his teeth again, especially on the right side. If so, oh my.
 
Martial/Greenwood:devil: Rashford/Lukaku Lingard/Mata
Pogba/Pereira Herrera/Fred
Matic/DM
LB/Shaw CB. Lindelöf. RB/Dalot

​
Add a new DM to succeed Matic, a proper CB along with fullbacks who can attack and we’re comfortably set for top 4 by next year. We’ll still be a window before we can properly push for all titles IMO.

DM- I’d like Neves
Big name CB- preferrably De Ligt.
Tierney
Meunier.

Next season sorted.
 
El-Manos said:
I agree with Lingard but Martial was absolutely amazing in his first season here. He could definitely be world class. We need a right winger though, no doubt about that.
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I agree re Martial.. he was looking great. Raw, hungry.. and dare I say it, happy! But he seems to have changed his game.. he seems 'slower' in his actions, decision-making etc. Whether he has become too fed up with things, i don't know. I also, and this is an important matter, think he in fact should be a No 9. Gives his game a sense of definition, because I think he seems a little lost in what type of player he should be. Lindgard too. I often think... What are they? Forwards? Finishers? Goal Scorers? Goal makers? Passers? Ball-winners? Play off the No 9? Do they/can they lead the line if required? They could look at Carlos Tevez as a great example of being all those things, but also having a clear identity. I sense it is a mental thing.. Lindgard I feel could play with a brain, more than he actually does... and Martial I do NOT think is a player who is at his best when he has time to think.. he should be more instinctive.

All opinions of course.
 
AR87 said:
Depends on the business we do (or don't do) this summer. I don't think this team is too far off competing for the league if we address key areas (RW, CB, CDM, FB depth) and our younger players contine to progress (Rashford, Martial, Lindelof, Shaw, Dalot, Bailly).

It's not impossible anyways.
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Its not impossible but I dont think Rashford and Martial will quite get there yet to lead a title winning attack. Its also a situation where we absolutely should not replace them, but also one that we just need to have some patience and not expect them to turn into consistent, reliable top class players right away next season (the required consistency to win a title). Possible, more likely for Martial to find the consistency next season but i think Rashford is another year away until he really makes the step up consistently. He'll continue to improve and has been great under Ole, but he'll also go through rough patches soon. 2020/21 if we recruit well in the right positions, i can see everything coming together. Next season I cant see it. Squad just isnt quite balanced enough, but theres nothing wrong with that.
 
A world beater for the right hand side and we'll be well away. Not sure who though. Is there a non injured prime Arjen Robben clone anywhere.
 
Nah with Pogba our attack is good ;)
But we need a RW to be great

Martial------Rashford-------RW
------------------Pogba----------------

:drool:
 
I thought Chong looked very interesting on the right in the FA Cup. I'm hoping he can get more minutes in the PL because he's going to be a special player. Gomes and Chong can both play from the right (although it's not their best position), and we can play with a truly electrical front four. I think they're both the reason we haven't invested in that position this window.
 
Isotope said:
On paper, our attack has bigger names in Lukaku, Sanchez, and Mata. But in reality, those three are pretty useless (with Sanchez frequently injured and god knows if he'll be any good). Which left Rashford, Martial, and Lingard; two young players and a world class hardworker; for the long season.
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Under Ole:

Lukaku - 3 goals in 161 minutes (1 start)
Mata - 1 goal in 221 minutes (3 starts)
Sanchez - 2 assists in 91 minutes (0 starts)

Tell you what, if that's useless for your 2nd choices... what exactly is useful?
 
AR87 said:
Depends on the business we do (or don't do) this summer. I don't think this team is too far off competing for the league if we address key areas (RW, CB, CDM, FB depth) and our younger players contine to progress (Rashford, Martial, Lindelof, Shaw, Dalot, Bailly).

It's not impossible anyways.
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100% agree with this, nail on the head with the positions we need and another year of the kids devloping, Lindelof is looking every bit the CB we thought we had bought, get a Alderweireld/Koulibaly etc. in next to him, Neves would be perfect CDM, maybe a top class RB with Dalot as his understudy with Shaw and maybe Young for another year as his cover.

Not sure who I would go for RW, Costa been mentioned but I'm not convinced on him, young Dutch lad at PSV been talked about as well.

Gomes, Greenwood, Chong to develop and get further chances in the first team picture, not sure why we can't put a challenge in.
 
Isotope said:
With the talk of CBs, fullbacks and DM as a must, I think there's a more glaring need to upgrade our attack.

A quick look of the Top 2 we need to overcome:

Liverpool: Salah, Firminho, Mane, Origi, Sturridge, Shaqiri.
Man City: Aguero, Jesus, Sterling, Mahrez, Sane.

Then compare them to ours: Rashford, Martial, Lukaku, Sanchez, Mata, Lingard.

On paper, our attack has bigger names in Lukaku, Sanchez, and Mata. But in reality, those three are pretty useless (with Sanchez frequently injured and god knows if he'll be any good). Which left Rashford, Martial, and Lingard; two young players and a world class hardworker; for the long season.

So, are you confident our attack could carry us to the League Title next season?
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8 goals scored less than Pool in the league and this includes the distaster of Jose in the 1st half of season playing with handbrakes. I would imagine since the change we have probably outscored them. To make a thread about our "weak" attack is a strange move. As you suggested, on paper we have the most firepower as Lukaku Sanchez and Mata currently warm out bench and if you compare their goals/assists per game over the past seasons, I would imagine they are considerable compared to most players in the EPL. probably need to replace 1 or 2 of them but not all 3. I am happy to keep Mata as Sanchez does nothing
 
Isotope said:
Under SAF, the team never rely on only young player to lead the attack. There was Rooney or Ronaldo, but we had RVN as the main man. Now we have Rashford and Martial, who both still need at least a couple years to be ready, imho. Btw, don't tell me Lukaku as our main striker.
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You know how old Rooney and Ronaldo were in 2006-07. They were definitely our main men at the time.

22 years old!
 
The attack is the strongest part of this team, not midfield, let alone defence.

Midfield is not good enough defensively wise. It was a big reason why Spurs played against DDG in the last 30 min or so. Spurs had more shots on target than they did vs Everton when they scored 6. Matic and Herrera are good enough for options from the bench for a title winning team now that the bar is raised quite high with City and Liverpool.
 
Lingard.. Manchester United starter and worldclass hardworker :lol: Hopefully we get an upgrade for him but i would think a better defense is more important at this time.
 
We desperately need an upgrade on right hand side of the attack, Lingard is good squad player but we need a starter for that position. Improving RW and CB are equally as important this summer if we want to move forward.

I do think we have issues with Lukaku, Mata and Sanchez as well and should look to move them on over next two summer windows. Sanchez should go this summer to allow a new RW to be brought in.
 
Isotope said:
With the talk of CBs, fullbacks and DM as a must, I think there's a more glaring need to upgrade our attack.

A quick look of the Top 2 we need to overcome:

Liverpool: Salah, Firminho, Mane, Origi, Sturridge, Shaqiri.
Man City: Aguero, Jesus, Sterling, Mahrez, Sane.

Then compare them to ours: Rashford, Martial, Lukaku, Sanchez, Mata, Lingard.

On paper, our attack has bigger names in Lukaku, Sanchez, and Mata. But in reality, those three are pretty useless (with Sanchez frequently injured and god knows if he'll be any good). Which left Rashford, Martial, and Lingard; two young players and a world class hardworker; for the long season.

So, are you confident our attack could carry us to the League Title next season?
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I think the first choice front 3, with an in form Pogba behind them, is as good as anything else in the league. The problem, which I think you've highlighted, is that we look a lot less dangerous the moment we have to make a change. The backup players don't currently offer us the same level of performance.

Incidentally, I think the same is true in the squad generally - we have a competitive first XI, but we lose something the moment we need to make replacements.

We do need reinforcements for next season, but we also have some promising players coming through the ranks. Unfortunately most of these players are presently in the U18 squad, and just throwing them all into regular first team action won't be a viable option for a couple of seasons.
 
This thread is just proof how Caf residents love underrating our team while over rating everyone else. For some reasons the grass is always greener with posters on these boards.

Martial, Rashford, Lukaku and Pogba are all like on 8 goals in the league at the same time yet you still have threads like these.
 
Red Devil Rising said:
Our fullbacks certainly aren't helping.

Our attackers are being asked to supply the width as well as their more natural game of coming inside. If we can consistent quality width from our fullbacks it'll make a big difference.

Although we're crying out for someone in the Lingard position
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Our entire right side needs revamping and has for a very long time. Most of our attack comes down the left and it makes us predictable.
 
I think we are fine at LW and ST. Sanchez, Martial, and Rashford. I would sell Lukaku (you can't have someone who cost 90m and is on high wages being a backup bench option) and get a good backup ST.

RW is definitely in need of improvement. Mata can not play there and Lingard isn't really that good. I say get a world class RW, sell Mata, sell Lukaku, and get a backup ST, and we are very well set in the front three.

And of course RB is the next biggest need, followed by CB, then LB.
 
bosnian_red said:
We need to sort out our right wing and then just be patient with Martial and Rashford like we were with Rooney and Ronaldo. Buying someone to put one of them on the bench then would have been a mistake just like it would be a mistake now.

Tbh i dont see us seriously challenging next season. Doesnt mean it cant be a good season, but the year after is when we should be aiming to have a serious push with the hope to win. Next season everyone is still pretty young, and if we make the right signings it could be like that second half of 05/06 where we really improved but wasnt quite enough. Then hopefully our squad kind of peaks together in 20/21, Rashford, Martial both being world class, right wing being sorted, Pogba over 1.5 years of consistency and an established star/possibly captain, midfield replacements sorted out and most importantly i would hope the back 4 is sorted.

Theres too many changes this summer with the combination of giving the younger guys time to make the step up and the added responsibility as key players, fixing our defence and right wing and then the season after making the final touches and bringing in a top midfielder to replace Matic basically. We need to focus on becoming a dominant side, do well in the cups and then a title push the next year.
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Agreed with this and @Jeffthered . Our attack is not good enough to be expected to win the League next season. Then it becomes too many "if this and that happen" with Rashford and Martial after next season.

For now, our attack weakness is covered by the emerging of Pogba. You take Pogba out, those attack could barely create anything but here and there. We need attackers who can take care of (create for) themselves when the midfield is subdued.
 
Isotope said:
Agreed with this and @Jeffthered . Our attack is not good enough to be expected to win the League next season. Then it becomes too many "if this and that happen" with Rashford and Martial after next season.

For now, our attack weakness is covered by the emerging of Pogba. You take Pogba out, those attack could barely create anything but here and there. We need attackers who can take care of (create for) themselves when the midfield is subdued.
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Dont get me wrong, i love Martial and rashford and we just need to stick with them through the rough parts. In 05/06 rooney and Ronaldo werent world class, they couldnt carry the attack consistently. They were still young and improving and turned world class the next year. I think we're kind of at a 2005 point right now. Some world class prospects but also currently good enough to start, just not quite there to win titles. A couple of world class players and then a few gaping holes that need fixing. 2-3 of the right signings this summer (Koulibaly/Skriniar, Sancho/Dembele/Bailey, Tierney) and then 1 year of everyone gelling with Martial/Rashford making the next step.

The situation those 2 are in, the last thing we should do is buy a player to force them out of position or bench them. Its a matter of patience.
 
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