Out - Fellaini, Herrera, Lukaku & Sanchez; In - Daniel James

Kush said:
:lol:

Ashley Barnes has 4 goals in 250 minutes, Teemu Pukki has 5 in 263 minutes. You cannot use such a small sample size and extrapolate it through the entire season which has plenty of up and downs. Otherwise both Barnes and Pukki would be contending for Ballon d'Or next season.

Fact of the matter is, highest tally of Martial in PL is 11 goals. Yes, he's playing centrally but does that mean his productivity will magically go up by 200%? Especially when we as a team create so little? Same with Rashford who breached double figure mark for the first time last season with 10 goals. Snap out of cuckoo land. Martial and Rashford suddenly won't start scoring 40 goals between them in one PL season. Even Raheem Sterling who has become so prolific and plays for a City side who scorer for fun, hasn't breached 20+ goal mark once in PL.

I don't even know how to address the goal scoring tally column, everyone knows we are short on goals in the squad. In fact, Ole specifically name checked adding a goal scorer in the summer to rectify that. Not only we didn't do that but we went on and sold our most prolific striker, who in his worst ever PL season scored 12 goals (a higher tally than any forward in our current squad). Pogba only scored 1 more goal than Lukaku, and 7 of them were penalties.

Even in a hypothetical scenario Rashford sustains the 10 goal tally despite playing wide and starts taking penalties, we are looking at 17-20 goals. But then, that means Pogba goals in midfield are less. So, we are back to square one.

In a side already struggling for goals, we've sold our main goalscorer and one former goalscorer with kids in Greenwood and Chong. At the same time we are pinning our hopes on Rashford and Martial to become 20+ goalscorers, Pogba to keep up the productivity without taking penalties, and kids to step up seamlessly. While that might work out well in FM/FIFA, chances of same happening on pitch are pretty remote.

Funny how you left out Arsenal? Is it because they scored 73 goals last season and added a prolific winger on top of that?
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Martial is a better player than Barnes and Pukki. Watching matches is a better way to tell.

I've never played FIFA or FM. I'll take your word for it. This isn't moneyball.

Arsenal finished 5th and have got worse overall, despite the Pepe purchase. If we do better than both Spurs and Chelsea, we get top 4. It's not that hard to understand.
 
AFC NimbleThumb said:
I don’t see selling Lukaku & ridding the club of Sanchez as good moves in isolation, when no upgrades/alternatives have been purchased.
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Denying the gaffer options makes no sense to me. With Sanchez now gone Ole has one less to choose from. Options are valuable, we just gave that value to someone else in exchange for a round off error level of contribution to the club budget.
 
They are burning the bushes and damaged weeds to plant the harvest in next window.

But don't forget the defensive signings which were good.
 
Hang on a second, are people actually mad that we are getting sanchez off the wage bill and out of the club?

Could of sworn that we all wanted this..

We are now officially RAWK, never thought id see the day. Bye bye café
 
paraguayo said:
They are burning the bushes and damaged weeds to plant the harvest in next window.

But don't forget the defensive signings which were good.
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We re not buying anyone in the next window, and if you think Ed is spending the Lukaku money and another 100m next year you haven't been a United fan long. We will buy players next summer and spend about 70m net. With the squad as is we will achieve 5/6th, lose pogba and end up bringing in lesser talents because top class players won't want to come to us with another EL year.
 
robinvpersie said:
Hang on a second, are people actually mad that we are getting sanchez off the wage bill and out of the club?

Could of sworn that we all wanted this..

We are now officially RAWK, never thought id see the day. Bye bye café
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Except he is still on the wage bill.
 
paraguayo said:
They are burning the bushes and damaged weeds to plant the harvest in next window.

But don't forget the defensive signings which were good.
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The issue is that Woodys strategy is to get rid of midfielders and strikers and pocket the money, until there is investment in a those positions we will struggle. All this nonsense that is deliberately fed into the media, like Fernandes does not suit , and all the other excuses trotted out are a smokescreen for cashing up for the Glazers.

Slight improvements to the defence is more than offset by weakening the rest of the team by not spending , doesn't look or seem like success or a strategy to build on. The further the club is allowed to slip down the ladder, the more difficult rebuilding bcomes. The continued defence of Woodward and Judge is extraordinary.
 
Dante said:
Martial is a better player than Barnes and Pukki. Watching matches is a better way to tell.
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:wenger:

I was pointing to you that 3 games is too small a sample size to judge players because Barnes and Pukki both look like world beaters. Just because Martial has 2 in 3 doesn't mean he can sustain that form throughout the season, same applies for James too. How many chances has Martial had to score in last 3 games? Apart from 2 which he tucked away? We simply do not create enough and Martial conversion rate isn't going to be 100%. That was the point.

I've never played FIFA or FM. I'll take your word for it. This isn't moneyball.
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Exactly, so playing all the youth at once isn't a great idea

Arsenal finished 5th and have got worse overall, despite the Pepe purchase. If we do better than both Spurs and Chelsea, we get top 4. It's not that hard to understand.
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No they haven't. They've strengthened their defence with addition of Luiz and Tierney, midfield with addition of Ceballos and attack with the signing of Pepe. Even if you think Luiz is a joke of a defender and Arsenal will continue to leak goals, well they have increased their potency in attack more. So I fail to see how they've gotten 'worse' when they haven't sold anyone but signed key players in positions of need.

We have problems of our own before we start analyzing our rival squads. Chelsea look suspect because many of their key experienced players aren't integrated in the XI such as Willian, Rudiger and Kante. Same applies for Spurs with Alli out injured, Son just getting back in and likes of Ndombele and Lo Celso still adjusting to the PL. The team which we put out versus Palace, that's our strongest XI which is the worrying part.
 
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El Zoido said:
The caf constantly bleats on about “clearing out the deadwood”, and when we finally do, everyone complains.

No the plan is not to sell four players each window and bring in one prospect, but we’re finally, at long last, getting rid of these overpaid average players. We need to clear these players out before rebuilding, this is going to take time but this is a good start. I’d rather have players like Daniel James, who knows what it means to wear the shirt, than ridiculously overpaid, overweight, overrated primadonnas such as Lukaku and Sanchez.
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"Clearing out deadwood" is just step 1 of any cleanup, you need to buy their replacement too which we haven't done and left us in a ridiculous situation we find ourselves in.

Also when it comes actual "deadwood", you'll find plenty of them are still here at the club. Yes, I am talking about your Young, Jones, Rojo, Smalling, Darmian, Lingard, Mata etc.

What I find puzzling is why no one ever bothers to think the "deadwood" which we got rid this summer moved to actual good clubs with CL football on offer. Herrera went to PSG, both Sanchez and Lukaku went to Inter. They under-performed for what? 1-2 seasons? And they're already signed by clubs with CL footie.

How about the existing lot who've been under-performing for more than 4-5 years? Why is no club with even Europa league football in for them?

sammsky1 said:
How/when are we going to sign him, given our incomings window is closed?
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He is a free agent after Spurs let him go this summer. We were linked with him after Manduzkic deal collapsed.
 
Kush said:
He is a free agent after Spurs let him go this summer. We were linked with him after Manduzkic deal collapsed.
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Can free agent players be signed outside a window? Never knew that!

Any other decent free agent players available?
 
sammsky1 said:
Can free agent players be signed outside a window? Never knew that!
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You can.

Any other decent free agent players available?
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No, all good free agent players were snapped up long ago such as Ramsey, Godin, Rabiot and Herrera.

I don't know if 32yo Ben Arfa and 30yo Wilfried Bony are 'decent' these days, even if they once were.

You can take a look at all free agents available here - https://www.transfermarkt.co.in/statistik/vertragslosespieler
 
roseguy64 said:
We're doing the LVG experiment again with better football. Let's see if it works.
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Yeah, that’s what it looks like, but this time it seems more planned and we have Greenwood and Gomes who seem to be the real deal, plus Chong and Garner who may be talented. LVG’s undoing was depending on Rooney. Let’s hope Ole doesn’t have that level of attachment to Lingard.

And if the experiment doesn’t work, the Glazers squeeze cash out of squad and perhaps will be open to selling the club.
 
We got rid of shite and are giving the youth players a chance. If they don't take it then we buy in January or next summer.
 
If anyone thinks McTominay and Pereira are equal or if better replacements for Herrera and Fellaini then they are living in Cuckoo land. One was a Belgian International with 87 caps and 18 goals and who has played in the World Cup and won the bronze and the other is a player who has won the Euro under 21s and have a cap for Spain and scored over 20 goals for us. I had no problems selling Fellaini and Herrera but without replacing them with better players it is utter madness.
 
marukomu said:
We got rid of shite and are giving the youth players a chance. If they don't take it then we buy in January or next summer.
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and in the meantime we just sink and sink and sink? Great thinking!

I can't get over naive, wreckless and careless the club has been over such an important summer. Only modern day Utd could end a transfer window with even more holes in a squad that already looked like a ring donut.
 
Judas said:
and in the meantime we just sink and sink and sink? Great thinking!

I can't get over naive, wreckless and careless the club has been over such an important summer. Only modern day Utd could end a transfer window with even more holes in a squad that already looked like a ring donut.
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I think it is more about seeing what we already have before buying in. The rebuild will take a while so we shouldn't expect to challenge for a few years.
 
Sanchez7 said:
The strategy of bringing in youth only works when you have an established first team squad and the youngsters can be slowly integrated into it. What do you think the huge expectations will do to the confidence of these young players if they fail to deliver? On top of that we have the habit of over hyping our young talent. Remember when Januzaj was given 11 shirt after two goals versus Sunderland??

Shambolic management.
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Agree with this 100%.
While City have strengthened basically every position they have with backup players, they have shown a plan. They haven't just gone out of their way to buy players and shoe horn them in, they seem to scan their options and act fast.
Meanwhile our board prance around for 2 months per player and refuse to fix the screaming problems. But it's ok, we will let players go in key areas and don't replace them. Our squad is bare and we are expecting players to bring out their prime form before they have even established themselves.
 
Judas said:
and in the meantime we just sink and sink and sink? Great thinking!

I can't get over naive, wreckless and careless the club has been over such an important summer. Only modern day Utd could end a transfer window with even more holes in a squad that already looked like a ring donut.
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Nope. We aren't winning.challenging for the title regardless, so get rid of the shite that have no future benefit here (or try to), and then see how the youngsters develop to see what is truly needed to strengthen, be it long term options or just short term. It's a calculated risk IMO. The biggest problem was Herrera, who we didn't want to let go, but the problem was not replacing him which I don't think is down to Ole really, as we were linked to midfielders constantly.
 
I'm bemused that we're selling Lukuku and shipping Sanchez out after the window has closed. Mostly because for all the talk about Ole trusting in youth, we ignore that he straight out said he wanted replacements should either of them go. Just the other day Ole was saying Sanchez was quality, probably the most promising thing he's said about him in his time here. I don't know if I believe Ole's fully behind this. Ed's put him in a corner and fecked him more like it.
 
I can understand letting Sanchez go if he doesn't want to stay,however do worry Ole still won't give Gomes & Chong chances to play games. I only say that because they weren't getting any opportunities with Alexis out of the team.
 
The squad is just paper thin, I know the narrative spin will always a be that it's about giving kids like Greenwood, McT, Lingard a go but honestly it's just poor squad management. 7 CB's, 5 midfielders , 3 players who can play the left but nobody who is strong on the right. It really is just a mess, I hope these kids are ready or it's going to be a long season.
 
Solskjaer didnt even want Sanchez to go. 3 weeks ago he said that Sanchez could surprise people this season. Its plainly obvious that Solskjaer is being giving the run around by Woodward. They cant believe their luck. Such a mess.
 
Kush said:
Fact of the matter is, highest tally of Martial in PL is 11 goals. Yes, he's playing centrally but does that mean his productivity will magically go up by 200%?
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That won't but playing him in more games might. Martial never played more than 50% of total mins since his first season. So using his highest tally is not a fair argument.
 
I think losing Sanchez is a bad move by the club. We are not even getting rid of him completely, we have just loaned him out by posting majority of the wages. We need options too.

Saying that this might work in our favour too. You never know how young players will surprise you when they are trusted and played regularly.

I can't decide whether it's a good or bad deal anyways. Also James has scored 2 league goals in 2 starts and 1 sub appearance. Sanchez scored 3 in 18 months.
 
Adam-Utd said:
We need to clear the deadwood first and get a healthy wage bill before we can go again, pretty simple.

Ole is throwing out the trash and moulding the squad in his image. Give it time.

Just because we haven’t got immediate replacements doesn’t mean we won’t have in the future.
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Finish outside the top 4 again, Pogba leaves and lets see who we can actually attract.
 
roonster09 said:
That won't but playing him in more games might. Martial never played more than 50% of total mins since his first season. So using his highest tally is not a fair argument.
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Well exactly, if he remains fit enough to play twice as many matches as last season it's fairly logical to extrapolate he'll score close to twice as many goals.

I don't really get the moaning about Sanchez. He didn't play much last year and his main contribution seemed to be giving the ball away and ruining any good attacking move he was involved in. Even Chong, as raw as he is, would arguably be more effective. I really don't see how he could be any worse.
 
haram said:
Except he is still on the wage bill.
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and he's also at the club. We're only sending him on loan to get rid of what? some millions of the payroll? I wonder what happens if Rashy and Martial both pick an injury
 
I’m excited by this season! Really low expectations but this learning curve for our talented youth players could set us up nicely for years to come!
 
While I have never thought that Ole is a good enough manager for the job that needs to be done he has a lot of the right ideas and one is that certain players do not fit the style we want to play.

Also I am fine with giving the youth a chance and I am glad that Ole immediately started playing James.

However, we are missing any kind of creativity upfront so a player like Eriksen, Dybala, Bruno etc. should have been brought in no matter what it would have costed.
And a worldclass winger.
 
roonster09 said:
That won't but playing him in more games might. Martial never played more than 50% of total mins since his first season. So using his highest tally is not a fair argument.
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His highest tally came in a season where he played 2632 minutes. His record of goals per minute in previous 2 season is high therefore I think he's the closest player in our squad who can get close to 20 goal mark in the PL but it's not a given by any means. If he's playing through the middle, there will be less space for him to run into given most teams will defend deep. He's not particularly useful in the air so crosses (when we actually manage to put a good one in) are not a reliable way to score. So we're pretty much hoping for Pogba to create for him or Martial to work his magic.

bosnian_red said:
Nope. We aren't winning.challenging for the title regardless, so get rid of the shite that have no future benefit here (or try to), and then see how the youngsters develop to see what is truly needed to strengthen, be it long term options or just short term. It's a calculated risk IMO.
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The poster was saying while we wait and see if the youngsters are useful or not, we'll continue to sink. It's not a good approach by any means, especially given the resources a club of our size has.

The biggest problem was Herrera, who we didn't want to let go, but the problem was not replacing him which I don't think is down to Ole really, as we were linked to midfielders constantly.
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The only midfielder we were constantly linked with was Sean Longstaff (who was quoted at £50m). He was and never will be the answer to our current malaise. Also, I know you're active enough in the transfer forum to know the Portuguese links with Bruno were hot air and nothing more. Lack of signings in midfield are definitely on him.
 
Eddy_JukeZ said:
We are?

I'm pretty sure we'll concede possession against every side in the top 6.
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The poster wrote that with regards to squad management, van Gaal sold pretty much every player who wasn't suited to his requirement to bring young players in from the academy and naively pinned his hopes on squad/youth to step up to the task. We finished on 58 points that season and missed CL football as a result. Also, it goes without saying that PL is much stronger since then given 81 points would've won you the league that season.
 
Kush said:
His highest tally came in a season where he played 2632 minutes. His record of goals per minute in previous 2 season is high therefore I think he's the closest player in our squad who can get close to 20 goal mark in the PL but it's not a given by any means. If he's playing through the middle, there will be less space for him to run into given most teams will defend deep. He's not particularly useful in the air so crosses (when we actually manage to put a good one in) are not a reliable way to score. So we're pretty much hoping for Pogba to create for him or Martial to work his magic.
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Playing as CF also means he spends much of the time in the box instead of tracking opponents FB, as said by Zabaleta. Martial's goal record is very good considering he was LW and played less than 50% of total league mins. I have confidence in Rashford and Martial stepping up, it's the contribution from others is the big worrying part.
 
I feel like there's less depth in the team, but is there less quality? Sure we'll miss 15-20 goals from Lukaku, but finally we're doing what's needed to be done. If we get rid of Rojo and Darmian next then we've already done what many of us on here wanted all summer.

Yes we need replacements, but 6 in 6 out was never gonna happen, especially the way the market is now. We might feel the loss of these players in the short term, in the terms of pure numbers in the squad. But in 2 years we'll look at this as a positive
 
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