Out - Fellaini, Herrera, Lukaku & Sanchez; In - Daniel James

[settembrini]

Once again you completely missed the point. Just because players have loads of appearances under their belt doesn't mean they are not going to make silly errors which players of their age will make, it's a natural progression. The problem with our setup is, once those errors arrive, there won't be a hiding place for them, because to replace kids we just have another bunch of kids. We lack the mixture of youth and finished article, experience cannot be solely crystallized to number of games a player has made.

The number of games a player has played is a more honest reflection of a player's experience than their biological age. You sound like you believe a 25 year old with very little experience is less likely to make a mistake than a 19 year old who has played and proven himself far more.

My memory of that season is pretty clear, van Gaal stripped many useful players in the summer window and misplaced his faith in the squad/youth to step up. We sold number of squad players without ever bringing in a replacement. Those minutes might make it look like they were at the periphery but each one of them contributed to that season because of number of mistakes they made in limited minutes they played.

Pretty clear huh? Here are the players we sold/loaned that window who were in our first team squad the year before:

1. Di Maria - First team player who literally refused to join us on our tour.
2. RvP - Still a first team player but clearly past his peak and on the decline.
3. Rafael - Injury prone squad player.
4. Evans - Injury prone squad player.
5. Lindegaard - 3rd choice GK.
6. Januzaj - Squad player who we loaned.

So we lost two first team players (one because he was declining, one who forced his way out) and four squad players (none of whom were particularly important).

And we brought in: Depay, Martial, Darmian, Romero, Schweinsteiger and Schneiderlin. Six new players for the first team squad.

You characterising this as Van Gaal stripping the squad and not bringing in replacements is clearly false. Objectively we went into it with a stronger squad on paper than we had the previous year. If you are not misremembering then you must be being dishonest because your version of events is simply not true.

Also the minutes make it look like the youth players were on the periphery because they were, in fact, on the periphery. You are right that they contributed to the season though. Rashford for example finished as our 4th highest goal scorer despite his lack of playing time. Things would have been even worse without the contribution he made.

I highlighted where those players are currently plying their trade to point out just because players look good in youth setup doesn't necessarily means they'll make the step up to first team. Ole might've been planning to introduce Gomes, Chong, Greendwood and Garner since last December itself but that doesn't mean it's risk-averse. A careful, planned approach would've meant not to throw kids into the deep end. Rather, integrate them gradually with few appearances in cup/easy matches. Given our dire state of squad, Ole has no option but to rely on them to turn around matches for us. That's the reason why Greenwood came on for Lingard last week when we were chasing the game vs Palace, and poor kid looked scared to get on the ball with 2 Palace players twice his size/power hunting him down.

We are going with a careful and planned approach. Greenwood came on against Palace because Solskjaer believes in him. He isn't basing that belief on just Greenwood's good performance in the academy but from the months of watching him train with the first team, the good performances in pre-season, the positive impact he had on his PL debut last season. Everything Solskjaer has done with Greenwood and the other youth players has been careful and planned and great for the future of United. You continually characterising this as a clueless manager chucking in players who aren't ready is asinine.

 

[Beachryan]

Bizarrely I have a little bit of sympathy for Ed et al on this one. Fans have rightly been desperate to get rid of the expensive, demotivated players and replace them with young, enthusiastic ones. Well, that's exactly what is happening. We've now freed up a huge chunk of wages, cleared the space to enable a new signing to know they'll be a starter and also brought in a cheap young player with some potential (who has scored twice for us in 3 games).

A rebuild is always going to take more than one window. This shouldn't be a hard concept - no team has completely reconstructed itself in a 12 month period. The soft-power oil clubs have taken about 5 years to move from the squad they started with to a squad winning titles.

If we believe this is the right path we have to be willing to walk it. That will mean disappointing results because we're giving kids a chance. I say so be it. But, what hugely worries me is that someone like Mason Greenwood will be burned out by the pressure this puts him under, because our fans are demanding him to be better than Lukaku tomorrow. That's on us, not the club, or Ole, or Ed.

 

[hocane]

Gambling on the youth is really stupid. I can't believe this to be honest.

 

[stevoc]

Wow, talk about having head in the sand.

Lukaku an 'overpaid, underperforming waster' got 42 goals for us in 2 season. That's an average of 21 goals, who'll score his goals? That's without accounting for goals Herrera and Fellaini would chip in from midfield, ~around 10 every season. Sanchez was a total waste, but with our squad so unbelievably thin we needed him to go through matches in Europa league. What's the point in saving 40% of his wages when that player isn't even guaranteed to leave next summer?



Experience that Lukaku offers is 20+ goals every season. You can't expect kids to be thrown into deep end and expect them to perform, you just need to see Greenwood performance vs Palace to get my point. With regards to Sanchez, he was an option despite being utterly useless in last 18 months. In case you forgot, we have 2 cups in England and Europa League to contend with besides PL.

They didn't score that many goals every they averaged around 6 goals a season between them the last few years. The likes of McTominay, Fred and Pereira should be able to hit those numbers.

Fellaini wont be missed at all.

 

[el3mel]

We worked on deals for attacking players. We just didn't panic and bring in the wrong players. I respect ole for not doing what mourinho would have done, paid top dollar for Willian, sanchez, matic and players he knew that qould help him get a few more points in the short term

Yes. Let's not sign anyone at all and enter the season with a non existent squad depth in midfield and attack so that we don't get short term options. Perfect ideas.

Do you guys believe what you're really saying ?

We're not far away from Europe League starting and when the schedule becomes condensed and injuries start rolling these threads will be bumped to remind us of how the squad was fecked up to the core and how it was criminal that the board did that and the manager was happy from that. We're not far away from this point and we'll see together.

 

[romufc]

Gambling on the youth is really stupid. I can't believe this to be honest.

Gambling? I get that it is a risk to have a 17 year old.

But in our squad, we have McT who has proved he is ready.
Greenwood and Gomes are the only other two?

But I would rather gamble on a 17/18 year old who wants to play for the club, has hunger and the manager thinks he can do it because he has seen him play for a year than a player we buy from Europe like Fred who we pay £50m and is a mess.

 

[romufc]

Yes. Let's not sign anyone at all and enter the season with a non existent squad depth in midfield and attack so that we don't get short term options. Perfect ideas.

Do you guys believe what you're really saying ?

How many players do you actually want?

The EL the kids should be able to get us to Jan /Feb.

 

[devilish]

I feel like there's less depth in the team, but is there less quality? Sure we'll miss 15-20 goals from Lukaku, but finally we're doing what's needed to be done. If we get rid of Rojo and Darmian next then we've already done what many of us on here wanted all summer.

Yes we need replacements, but 6 in 6 out was never gonna happen, especially the way the market is now. We might feel the loss of these players in the short term, in the terms of pure numbers in the squad. But in 2 years we'll look at this as a positive

Herrera was our second best CM, Fellaini is better then most of our current CM and Lukaku was clearly a great option upfront....so yes they will be missed.

 

[el3mel]

How many players do you actually want?

The EL the kids should be able to get us to Jan /Feb.

Well no at first we don't which group we'll draw and second what will happen after we pass the group ?

 

[Dennis_Law]

It's Ok. We have 7 defenders. Time to test them in midfield and attack.

And in goal

 

[shaky]

Gambling on the youth is really stupid. I can't believe this to be honest.

Yeah, I'm all for giving them a chance, but we're also wanting to compete at the top end of one of the toughest leagues in the world. It's beyond optimistic to hope that a bunch of mostly untested teenagers will be able to consistently produce the level required to get the better of even the average PL teams, let alone the good ones. We're woefully short of experience in crucial areas.

 

[Kush]

If we sign stop gap, next season we will have same argument. Martial who is 24 never carried the attack, never scored more than x number of goals. Also not sure what's the point of Aguero, Sane, Sterling there. Sane and Sterling are wingers and Aguero is asset to the team, scores shit loads of goals, works hard and doesnt have any weakness. On the other hand, Rashford and Martial are played as wingers when they are forwards. Lukaku didn't score many goals, limited player, doesn't work hard and was becoming a liability. We should have signed replacement like a good RW, no doubt about it but not stop gaps. We have to trust Martial and Rashford. We can't keep going with "they are young" excuses.

About time we start relying on the young players who have around 3-4 years of experience. They will never be proven if they are not given chances.

Sanchez I agree, he would have been one more option but lets not assume he was option to fetch goals. He scored 3 league goals in 18 months, tally that's almost reached by James in 195 mins. He would have added more than Lingard though, maybe assist a month.

@bosnian_red made good point, instead of just checking numbers we have to consider the influence of these players in the dressing room too (all speculation btw). A player who offers nothing is paid shit loads of money, it's not good situation to be in.

Martial already carried our attack in his debut season, it is also his highest every tally for us in a single season with 17 goals. I don't think fans will have a debate as to who is carrying the attack if we secure or goals i.e a CL place finish. An experienced forward would only help us to that cause. Aguero I mentioned because of his experience and responsibility of being tasked as the main goalscorer in an already stacked squad. City don't play worse with Jesus in the side instead of him, but expectations from their players are aligned to his age. Foden would also be a good example of this.

The number of games a player has played is a more honest reflection of a player's experience than their biological age. You sound like you believe a 25 year old with very little experience is less likely to make a mistake than a 19 year old who has played and proven himself far more.

You still don't get it. I never said they aren't experienced players, they are just not the finished articles yet. Given their age, there are flaws in their game which will show time and time again, an experienced option would allow us to take them out of firing line if the goals dry up and there's a loss of confidence or if there's an injury. How many top clubs do you see with 21 or 23 yo as their main striker with even younger striker options on bench?

Pretty clear huh? Here are the players we sold/loaned that window who were in our first team squad the year before:

1. Di Maria - First team player who literally refused to join us on our tour.
2. RvP - Still a first team player but clearly past his peak and on the decline.
3. Rafael - Injury prone squad player.
4. Evans - Injury prone squad player.
5. Lindegaard - 3rd choice GK.
6. Januzaj - Squad player who we loaned.

He also sold Michael Keane, Danny Welbeck and Wilfried Zaha in January of 2015, he was gutting the squad long before it came to that summer. Likes of Cleverley, Nani and Hernandez were not even part of 1st team squad and were permanently sold that summer. You can dress it up as 'x choice' 'injury prone' and what not. Fact of the matter is, some of them were key players of us in years gone by who were let go at an age where they had more to offer than bunch of unproven kids from the academy.

You characterising this as Van Gaal stripping the squad and not bringing in replacements is clearly false. Objectively we went into it with a stronger squad on paper than we had the previous year. If you are not misremembering then you must be being dishonest because your version of events is simply not true.

Read above and have a look at the respective makeup of two squads.

Also the minutes make it look like the youth players were on the periphery because they were, in fact, on the periphery. You are right that they contributed to the season though. Rashford for example finished as our 4th highest goal scorer despite his lack of playing time. Things would have been even worse without the contribution he made.

So you're ready to acknowledge Rashfords' contribution that season but not for others? How about Donald Love sole game versus Sunderland costing us goals before he was never seen again? How about McNair and CBJ making mistakes at the back and costing us points?

van Gaal tried a bunch of shit to see what sticks, fortunately for him Rashford did stick. Hence, we get revisionism about van Gaal on here from time to time.

We are going with a careful and planned approach. Greenwood came on against Palace because Solskjaer believes in him. He isn't basing that belief on just Greenwood's good performance in the academy but from the months of watching him train with the first team, the good performances in pre-season, the positive impact he had on his PL debut last season. Everything Solskjaer has done with Greenwood and the other youth players has been careful and planned and great for the future of United. You continually characterising this as a clueless manager chucking in players who aren't ready is asinine.

The careful and planned approach is selling Herrera and Fellaini without buying a single midfielder or handing a new contract to Pereira who didn't get many minutes under the said manager last season? Or what about selling Lukaku and Sanchez without buying a replacement? Or handing new deals to Jones, Young and Mata? I'm not the one who is asinine. Those involved in changing the makeup of our squad this summer and fans buying into it are.

Solskjaer can believe in Greenwood, Gomes, Chong etc. but that doesn't mean the player will magically step up and perform to his beliefs. van Gaal believed a lot in Rooney and Memphis, the players who he saw up close in training every week. Yet, he couldn't see Rooney was past his best.

Managers misplace their beliefs and make mistakes all the time, but good ones plan an alternative. Solsjkaers' planning in midfield and attack has left him with no option but to entrust the kids to perform in matches where United need them to perform. A brief cameo from Greenwood versus Palace side further proves this point, Solskjaer may have thought he could turn the game around for us because of all the things you mentioned but the kid look scared to touch the ball. Do I blame the kid? Absolutely not, only those who put him in such a situation where he's expected to change games for us.

Anyways, with what you've written so far and your other posts, its clear we'll never agree, so let's leave it at that. I hope for Uniteds' sake that you're right and there's a master plan from Solksjaer at work here.

 

[Crashoutcassius]

Yes. Let's not sign anyone at all and enter the season with a non existent squad depth in midfield and attack so that we don't get short term options. Perfect ideas.

Do you guys believe what you're really saying ?

We're not far away from Europe League starting and when the schedule becomes condensed and injuries start rolling these threads will be bumped to remind us of how the squad was fecked up to the core and how it was criminal that the board did that and the manager was happy from that. We're not far away from this point and we'll see together.

We prob could have replaced lukaku but sanchez didn't play anyway... We lost lukaku and replaced with James gomes chong and Greenwood. Numbers are fine... I guess the argument is quality but most fans if lukaku played and started would be calling for Greenwood to start... lingard is proof if that at the moment.

Honestly just think through what you are arguing.

Midfield argument is stronger though. We have no depth and it is mad.

 

[roonster09]

Martial already carried our attack in his debut season, it is also his highest every tally for us in a single season with 17 goals. I don't think fans will have a debate as to who is carrying the attack if we secure or goals i.e a CL place finish. An experienced forward would only help us to that cause. Aguero I mentioned because of his experience and responsibility of being tasked as the main goalscorer in an already stacked squad. City don't play worse with Jesus in the side instead of him, but expectations from their players are aligned to his age. Foden would also be a good example of this

Martial was young player at that time and he was moved to LW before half of the season. He played many games as LW.

Still I don't see why you are bringing City players into this. They are good players, so no point selling them. Lukaku wasn't at least for the style Ole wanted to play. If you want better example, then go with Poch replacing Soldado/Adebayor with Kane, or Klopp replacing Clyne with TAA, Chelsea replacing non performing midfielders with RLC who was very good last season. There are many examples.

City players are extreme cases, there is no need to replace them as they are superb players and they are playing at highest possible level.

 

[el3mel]

We prob could have replaced lukaku but sanchez didn't play anyway... We lost lukaku and replaced with James gomes chong and Greenwood. Numbers are fine... I guess the argument is quality but most fans if lukaku played and started would be calling for Greenwood to start... lingard is proof if that at the moment.

Honestly just think through what you are arguing.

Midfield argument is stronger though. We have no depth and it is mad.

I see, great replacement options. We replaced a senior striker with some inexperienced youngsters that never played in high level football before and a winger from Championship. I feel more confident now.

 

[ToToMarshall]

Going in to season with the Europa League to contend with, with such a thin squad seems like footballing suicide.

 

[romufc]

Well no at first we don't which group we'll draw and second what will happen after we pass the group ?

I am sure the squad is capable of handling that.

Look at liverpool last year, they played majority of games with Salah, Mane, Firminho, Robbo, VVD, Allison, TAA

And that was Champions League and League title they were in for till the last day.

Lets be honest we have a reasonable sized squad.

Gk - DDG / Romero
RB - AWB / Dalot
CB - Lindelof / Tuanzebe
CB - Maguire / Jones / Smalling
LB - Shaw / Young / Rojo

CM - McT / Matic
CM - Pogba / Fred

RW - James / Greenwood / Perreira
LW - Rashford / Chong
CAM - Lingard / Gomes / Mata

ST - Martial

Up top we have room to rotate players as well.

 

[FreakyJim]

You should all respect our DOF's vision of the rebuild. Sure, he made some mistakes in the past and sure, he may be a chinless incompetent wankboy but nobody's perfect.

 

[el3mel]

I am sure the squad is capable of handling that.

Look at liverpool last year, they played majority of games with Salah, Mane, Firminho, Robbo, VVD, Allison, TAA

And that was Champions League and League title they were in for till the last day.

Lets be honest we have a reasonable sized squad.

Gk - DDG / Romero
RB - AWB / Dalot
CB - Lindelof / Tuanzebe
CB - Maguire / Jones / Smalling
LB - Shaw / Young / Rojo

CM - McT / Matic
CM - Pogba / Fred

RW - James / Greenwood / Perreira
LW - Rashford / Chong
CAM - Lingard / Gomes / Mata

ST - Martial

Up top we have room to rotate players as well.

Not really. Europe League is far more exhausting to play in than CL because of playing on Thursday which will leave you 2 days or so every week preparing for your league game. Also the second part of the season is when the fitness is supposed to drop and injuries become more common. If our situation in the league is tricky and we have the Europe League to play, we'll put ourselves in a pretty terrible situation.

The squad you listed is pretty poor. The midfield is non existent bar Pogba and the attack is full of inexperienced youngsters that never played in high level football before and for sure we don't know how they'll do. Not replacing so many senior players leaving except by academy players while you're entering such a condensed season is beyond stupid for a top club supposed to compete.

On injury to Pogba and say goodbye to your midfield. One injury to Martial or Rashford and that's the attack fecked. All these will inevitably happen in such a long season.

We needed at least a striker and 2 midfielders in summer. Not signing those will cost us the season.

 

[romufc]

Europe League is far more exhausting to play in than CL because of playing on Thursday which will leave you 2 days or so every week preparing for your league game.

I don't get this? How is it different to Playing Wednesday and Saturday?
Or playing Sunday and Tuesday or Wednesday?

We will play Thursday and Sunday.

On injury to Pogba and say goodbye to your midfield. One injury to Martial or Rashford and that's the attack fecked. All these will inevitably happen in such a long season.

We needed at least a striker and 2 midfielders in summer. Not signing those will cost us the season

Ok, so we should sign a £350k striker like Sanchez just incase our strikers get injured?

The market is over inflated and it is all well and good saying we should have signed striker and 2 midfielders, but they have to be first team signings otherwise it is pointless.

That means you are happy to let Greenwood fall further down the pecking order and drop McT?

 

[Lentwood]

Why can't you people see past one window or even one game?

I'll repeat what I have said elsewhere, with capitals and full stops to help some of you out

YOU.ARE.GOING.TO.HAVE.TO.BE.PATIENT. THE. CLUBS. STRATEGY. IS. NOT. BASED. AROUND. BEATING. SOUTHAMPTON. NEXT. GAME. THE. OBJECTIVE. IS. TO.BUILD. A. SQUAD. CAPABLE. OF. WINNING. SOMETHING. THIS. WILL. TAKE. TIME. NO. MORE. FAILED. QUICK. FIXES.

I wouldn't mind but the same people bemoaning the clear-out are probably the same ones calling for a clear-out every time we lose

Ultimately, there's no difference between finishing 17th and 5th....(or I would even argue 3rd/4th), so who cares if we have to finish mid-table this season IF it's for the long-term benefit of the club?

 

[HJ12]

Why can't you people see past one window or even one game?

I'll repeat what I have said elsewhere, with capitals and full stops to help some of you out

YOU.ARE.GOING.TO.HAVE.TO.BE.PATIENT. THE. CLUBS. STRATEGY. IS. NOT. BASED. AROUND. BEATING. SOUTHAMPTON. NEXT. GAME. THE. OBJECTIVE. IS. TO.BUILD. A. SQUAD. CAPABLE. OF. WINNING. SOMETHING. THIS. WILL. TAKE. TIME. NO. MORE. FAILED. QUICK. FIXES.

I wouldn't mind but the same people bemoaning the clear-out are probably the same ones calling for a clear-out every time we lose

Ultimately, there's no difference between finishing 17th and 5th....(or I would even argue 3rd/4th), so who cares if we have to finish mid-table this season IF it's for the long-term benefit of the club?

The full-stops don't really help.

 

[Lentwood]

The full-stops don't really help.

I think you're right

It doesn't matter though, the sensible posters are shouting into the void anyway

 

[BenitoSTARR]

The full-stops don't really help.

Definitely needs more full stops and MORE CAPS LOCK!

How else will people understand such a complex argument?

 

[Noc-Z]

I'm happy with all of those departures, but feel we badly needed a midfielder and a right winger. However, maybe it was a case of clearing out the squad a little bit before making those signings.

I'd also rather wait for our no.1 targets rather than make signings just to fill out the squad - avoid a "well we can't get who we want but this guy will do" approach.

It does leave us very thin and inexperienced this season, but the experienced players weren't cutting it anyway.

A lot of people seem to really like Herrera but I was happy for him to go. I think people thought look at the effort that guy puts in - great! But for all that effort he didn't contribute enough.

Happy to see the start of a clear-out - I'd clear out more. But we need to see some hungry, talented, players coming in. Not signing players based on a name or what they done before but what is there hunger and drive now. If we can't get the right player sin we go with what we've got (minus the deadwood).

 

[sammsky1]

Why can't you people see past one window or even one game?

I'll repeat what I have said elsewhere, with capitals and full stops to help some of you out

YOU.ARE.GOING.TO.HAVE.TO.BE.PATIENT. THE. CLUBS. STRATEGY. IS. NOT. BASED. AROUND. BEATING. SOUTHAMPTON. NEXT. GAME. THE. OBJECTIVE. IS. TO.BUILD. A. SQUAD. CAPABLE. OF. WINNING. SOMETHING. THIS. WILL. TAKE. TIME. NO. MORE. FAILED. QUICK. FIXES.

I wouldn't mind but the same people bemoaning the clear-out are probably the same ones calling for a clear-out every time we lose

Ultimately, there's no difference between finishing 17th and 5th....(or I would even argue 3rd/4th), so who cares if we have to finish mid-table this season IF it's for the long-term benefit of the club?

If this is true, which it seems to be, the club should make a statement saying so, so there is no misunderstanding from some fans. Everyone needs to be on the same page. But that’s only possible through lots of open communication

 

[EverReddy]

Time for young Jesse Lingard to step up

 

[el3mel]

I don't get this? How is it different to Playing Wednesday and Saturday?
Or playing Sunday and Tuesday or Wednesday?

We will play Thursday and Sunday.



Ok, so we should sign a £350k striker like Sanchez just incase our strikers get injured?

The market is over inflated and it is all well and good saying we should have signed striker and 2 midfielders, but they have to be first team signings otherwise it is pointless.

That means you are happy to let Greenwood fall further down the pecking order and drop McT?

You can play in CL on Tuesday and Saturday though, or Wednesday and Sunday, it actually happens, not fixed on Thursday with only 2 days every time as a rest. Also several times you play in EL in countries far away from England and require long time travelling, while in CL it's always Spain or Germany etc.

Yeah why not ? Why the feck should I or you or anyone else care about dropping Greenwood and McTominay in picking order if it means bringing senior players that will help the squad do better ? I will never get the idea of not signing short term options that will help for a tough season because you have some youngsters. You can fit everyone. The season is very long with loads of games and you'll get inevitable injuries. Also your priority first and foremost should be to build a squad to win not a squad to give youth chances for the sake of it. Having a pretty thin squad to give youth chances later is just setting yourself up for a failure of a season before it starts.

Look at how many senior attackers City have up front or in midfield and compare it to us.

Look at Liverpool as well. They have their 3 main starters in the attack Salah, Mane and Firmino, then on the bench there's Shaqiri, Origi and Ox. In midfield they have Milner, Wijnaldum, Henderson, Naby Keita, Fabinho and even Ox can play in midfield too. All senior and proven players.

Now compare this to us. We have Martial, Rashford and Lingard as senior players in attack. 2 inconsistent players that never scored 20 goals a season before and a nothing player. Then the rest of the squad is some youngsters, one from championship and the others never played in high level football before.

Then the midfield, only Pogba as a top player, then you have 2 inconsistent players that have proven nothing so far ( Scott and Periera ), a past it player in Matic and a player who has been a flop so far (Fred).

It's pretty poor. The squad depth is non existent and we're depending on youngsters to have a magnificent season to cover for this while we're approaching a season when we may play near to 60 matches and with Europe Leauge around the corner.

If you want to sell your top senior striker the only logical thing is replacing him with another top senior striker. If you're selling 2 of your main midfielders who were playing loads of games as Herrera and Fellaini, the only logical thing is to replace them with at least 1 or 2 signings. Depending on replacing departing players with some juniors in the squad who couldn't even get a starting spot ahead of these senior players when they're around, then what are you expecting from the upcoming season ? The result will be pretty obvious. It's no different than what LVG did in 2015, which fecked up the season and put us in a critical stage when injuries started to roll.

 

[Vidyoyo]

Why can't you people see past one window or even one game?

I'll repeat what I have said elsewhere, with capitals and full stops to help some of you out

YOU.ARE.GOING.TO.HAVE.TO.BE.PATIENT. THE. CLUBS. STRATEGY. IS. NOT. BASED. AROUND. BEATING. SOUTHAMPTON. NEXT. GAME. THE. OBJECTIVE. IS. TO.BUILD. A. SQUAD. CAPABLE. OF. WINNING. SOMETHING. THIS. WILL. TAKE. TIME. NO. MORE. FAILED. QUICK. FIXES.

I wouldn't mind but the same people bemoaning the clear-out are probably the same ones calling for a clear-out every time we lose

Ultimately, there's no difference between finishing 17th and 5th....(or I would even argue 3rd/4th), so who cares if we have to finish mid-table this season IF it's for the long-term benefit of the club?

If we finish outside the Top 6 then we don't stand a chance of attracting the players who will ensure the long-term changes you're hoping will happen.

We saw the impact not having Champions League football had on our ambitions to sign Dybala. Sancho won't come here either, as some seem to believe is a given (why?).

It's also arguably what pushed us into a position where we had to offer Sanchez a shit ton more money than City in order to get him, thus inflating the wage bill and creating issues with other members of the squad.

Further, Pogba will leave if we don't get Top 4 this season.

 

[VP89]

Every single player leaving us are those that wanted out. The biggest change for me is that Ole is focusing on players invested in the long term future of the club. The build will happen over multiple windows so we need patience.

 

[Lentwood]

If we finish outside the Top 6 then we don't stand a chance of attracting the players who will ensure the long-term changes you're hoping will happen.

We saw the impact not having Champions League football had on our ambitions to sign Dybala. Sancho won't come here either, as some seem to believe is a given (why?).

It's also arguably what pushed us into a position where we had to offer Sanchez a shit ton more money than City in order to get him, thus inflating the wage bill and creating issues with other members of the squad.

Further, Pogba will leave if we don't get Top 4 this season.

Don't believe the hype when it comes to this attracting players and playing in the CL nonsense. I very much doubt Dybala didn't want to come to United simply because we didn't qualify for the CL, I suspect it's because he thought we're miles away from winning anything - and he is right

If CL were the only factor, why don't the world's best talents flock to join clubs like Benfica/Celtic/Sporting/Lyon/Napoli/Schalke etc.....these clubs are in the CL most seasons?

Anyway, you're forgetting that the club's strategy is now to move away from the kind of player who would say 'I'm not joining you because you don't have CL football' for one, and secondly, how did Liverpool manage to go from 8th to getting 97pts in two and a half seasons?

 

[Enigma_87]

Don't believe the hype when it comes to this attracting players and playing in the CL nonsense. I very much doubt Dybala didn't want to come to United simply because we didn't qualify for the CL, I suspect it's because he thought we're miles away from winning anything - and he is right

If CL were the only factor, why don't the world's best talents flock to join clubs like Benfica/Celtic/Sporting/Lyon/Napoli/Schalke etc.....these clubs are in the CL most seasons?

Anyway, you're forgetting that the club's strategy is now to move away from the kind of player who would say 'I'm not joining you because you don't have CL football' for one, and secondly, how did Liverpool manage to go from 8th to getting 97pts in two and a half seasons?

They signed a world class coach and backed him with hundreds of millions. Same with City.

On the CL point it's one thing to just participate in Benfica/Celtic/Lyon type of a team the other is if you genuinely have a chance of winning it - and even Spurs had, despite not being the favorites.

CL football is a big pull for players like Dybala and Sancho and frankly we should be targeting such players.

 

[Vidyoyo]

Don't believe the hype when it comes to this attracting players and playing in the CL nonsense. I very much doubt Dybala didn't want to come to United simply because we didn't qualify for the CL, I suspect it's because he thought we're miles away from winning anything - and he is right

If CL were the only factor, why don't the world's best talents flock to join clubs like Benfica/Celtic/Sporting/Lyon/Napoli/Schalke etc.....these clubs are in the CL most seasons?

Anyway, you're forgetting that the club's strategy is now to move away from the kind of player who would say 'I'm not joining you because you don't have CL football' for one, and secondly, how did Liverpool manage to go from 8th to getting 97pts in two and a half seasons?

I suppose what I meant was that if we end up in a situation where we're competing with other clubs for the signatures of top players then we'll probably miss out based on our lack of Champion's League football. It's a very real possibility with a talent like Sancho.

Your last paragraph is right. It's why we need to get lucky signing a Mane or Van Dijk-esque player who has the ability to step up and make a big difference, but isn't being courted by a club in a much better position. It's possible and I can't deny it as Pool did it.

 

[Solius]

Herrera - McTominay
Fellaini - Pereira
Lukaku - Martial up top
Sanchez - James (Already has nearly half his entire goal contribution)

Also adding Greenwood, Chong and Garner to the set up gradually.

I agree we should have bought more depth in midfield but with the exception of Herrera those who left were feckign shite for us. Lukaku could barely control the ball, Fellaini had good runs but ruined our style of play and Sanchez huffed and puffed but was crap. I'm all for Ole giving them a chance if we have no other option.

 

[Treble]

You can play in CL on Tuesday and Saturday though, or Wednesday and Sunday, it actually happens, not fixed on Thursday with only 2 days every time as a rest. Also several times you play in EL in countries far away from England and require long time travelling, while in CL it's always Spain or Germany etc.

Yeah why not ? Why the feck should I or you or anyone else care about dropping Greenwood and McTominay in picking order if it means bringing senior players that will help the squad do better ? I will never get the idea of not signing short term options that will help for a tough season because you have some youngsters. You can fit everyone. The season is very long with loads of games and you'll get inevitable injuries. Also your priority first and foremost should be to build a squad to win not a squad to give youth chances for the sake of it. Having a pretty thin squad to give youth chances later is just setting yourself up for a failure of a season before it starts.

Look at how many senior attackers City have up front or in midfield and compare it to us.

Look at Liverpool as well. They have their 3 main starters in the attack Salah, Mane and Firmino, then on the bench there's Shaqiri, Origi and Ox. In midfield they have Milner, Wijnaldum, Henderson, Naby Keita, Fabinho and even Ox can play in midfield too. All senior and proven players.

Now compare this to us. We have Martial, Rashford and Lingard as senior players in attack. 2 inconsistent players that never scored 20 goals a season before and a nothing player. Then the rest of the squad is some youngsters, one from championship and the others never played in high level football before.

Then the midfield, only Pogba as a top player, then you have 2 inconsistent players that have proven nothing so far ( Scott and Periera ), a past it player in Matic and a player who has been a flop so far (Fred).

It's pretty poor. The squad depth is non existent and we're depending on youngsters to have a magnificent season to cover for this while we're approaching a season when we may play near to 60 matches and with Europe Leauge around the corner.

If you want to sell your top senior striker the only logical thing is replacing him with another top senior striker. If you're selling 2 of your main midfielders who were playing loads of games as Herrera and Fellaini, the only logical thing is to replace them with at least 1 or 2 signings. Depending on replacing departing players with some juniors in the squad who couldn't even get a starting spot ahead of these senior players when they're around, then what are you expecting from the upcoming season ? The result will be pretty obvious. It's no different than what LVG did in 2015, which fecked up the season and put us in a critical stage when injuries started to roll.

I think it might be worse than 2015 if injuries hit this paper thin squad in midfield and attack. It's bordering on madness.

 

[Vidyoyo]

Herrera - McTominay
Fellaini - Pereira
Lukaku - Martial up top
Sanchez - James (Already has nearly half his entire goal contribution)

Also adding Greenwood, Chong and Garner to the set up gradually.

I agree we should have bought more depth in midfield but with the exception of Herrera those who left were feckign shite for us. Lukaku could barely control the ball, Fellaini had good runs but ruined our style of play and Sanchez huffed and puffed but was crap. I'm all for Ole giving them a chance if we have no other option.

The issue here that they weren't proper replacements. They were all playing together at one stage, giving us more depth than we presently have. We've chosen to replace the 'fringe' status of Pereira and McT with Chong and Garner. The former is a player we were saying probably wouldn't make it at the end of last season. Garner is completely unproven.

It also has the unfortunate consequence of promoting the role of a player like Pereira, who should at best be a total fringe player.

Agree James is a step up from Sanchez.

Also agree that we have no choice but to see if this experiment works.

 

[romufc]

You can play in CL on Tuesday and Saturday though, or Wednesday and Sunday, it actually happens, not fixed on Thursday with only 2 days every time as a rest. Also several times you play in EL in countries far away from England and require long time travelling, while in CL it's always Spain or Germany etc.

Yeah why not ? Why the feck should I or you or anyone else care about dropping Greenwood and McTominay in picking order if it means bringing senior players that will help the squad do better ? I will never get the idea of not signing short term options that will help for a tough season because you have some youngsters. You can fit everyone. The season is very long with loads of games and you'll get inevitable injuries. Also your priority first and foremost should be to build a squad to win not a squad to give youth chances for the sake of it. Having a pretty thin squad to give youth chances later is just setting yourself up for a failure of a season before it starts.

Look at how many senior attackers City have up front or in midfield and compare it to us.

Look at Liverpool as well. They have their 3 main starters in the attack Salah, Mane and Firmino, then on the bench there's Shaqiri, Origi and Ox. In midfield they have Milner, Wijnaldum, Henderson, Naby Keita, Fabinho and even Ox can play in midfield too. All senior and proven players.

Now compare this to us. We have Martial, Rashford and Lingard as senior players in attack. 2 inconsistent players that never scored 20 goals a season before and a nothing player. Then the rest of the squad is some youngsters, one from championship and the others never played in high level football before.

Then the midfield, only Pogba as a top player, then you have 2 inconsistent players that have proven nothing so far ( Scott and Periera ), a past it player in Matic and a player who has been a flop so far (Fred).

It's pretty poor. The squad depth is non existent and we're depending on youngsters to have a magnificent season to cover for this while we're approaching a season when we may play near to 60 matches and with Europe Leauge around the corner.

If you want to sell your top senior striker the only logical thing is replacing him with another top senior striker. If you're selling 2 of your main midfielders who were playing loads of games as Herrera and Fellaini, the only logical thing is to replace them with at least 1 or 2 signings. Depending on replacing departing players with some juniors in the squad who couldn't even get a starting spot ahead of these senior players when they're around, then what are you expecting from the upcoming season ? The result will be pretty obvious. It's no different than what LVG did in 2015, which fecked up the season and put us in a critical stage when injuries started to roll.

Actually, this is completely nonsense.

There are teams in the Champions league that have distances to travel to, just incase you didnt know? They are the same countries as Champions League teams as well.
So you are saying Champions League you never play in Ukraine? I wonder how much football you actually watch if your so naive.

Don't tell me what affects me. I would rather see a young player coming through who I know cares for the club.
Just to give you a bit of insight, we brought senior players in Matic, Sanchez, Pogba, Mikhi, Zlatan, Fred and clearly that worked very well for us right?

You definitely have 0 clue about football.
Man City - Please go check when they signed their so called experienced players? Sterling, Silva, Aguero, KDB, Sane, Foden, Bernado were actually young when they signed for City

Look at Liverpool? Okay lets:-
Salah, Mane, Firminho, Ox, Origi were actually signed young, none of them were senior players

Oh sorry you also mentioned championship players, guess where Ox and Robertson were signed from? Championship

Fellaini and Herrera were never main midfielders
Lukaku was never a top striker for us, most fans wanted him gone anyway.

Priority is building a squad that will compete for the title in 2 years time not BUY loads of 28 year old so called experienced players for crazy money and wages and then do the same thing in 2 years.

Clearly you don't know the United. Manchester United do not buy experienced players generally. Even during the good times.

A squad is built over time not overnight my friend.

 

[el3mel]

Actually, this is completely nonsense.

There are teams in the Champions league that have distances to travel to, just incase you didnt know? They are the same countries as Champions League teams as well.
So you are saying Champions League you never play in Ukraine? I wonder how much football you actually watch if your so naive.

Don't tell me what affects me. I would rather see a young player coming through who I know cares for the club.
Just to give you a bit of insight, we brought senior players in Matic, Sanchez, Pogba, Mikhi, Zlatan, Fred and clearly that worked very well for us right?

You definitely have 0 clue about football.
Man City - Please go check when they signed their so called experienced players? Sterling, Silva, Aguero, KDB, Sane, Foden, Bernado were actually young when they signed for City

Look at Liverpool? Okay lets:-
Salah, Mane, Firminho, Ox, Origi were actually signed young, none of them were senior players

Oh sorry you also mentioned championship players, guess where Ox and Robertson were signed from? Championship

Fellaini and Herrera were never main midfielders
Lukaku was never a top striker for us, most fans wanted him gone anyway.

Priority is building a squad that will compete for the title in 2 years time not BUY loads of 28 year old so called experienced players for crazy money and wages and then do the same thing in 2 years.

Clearly you don't know the United. Manchester United do not buy experienced players generally. Even during the good times.

A squad is built over time not overnight my friend.

Weird. I never insulted you in any of my previous posts, respected you and talked to you in sensible way but here you went on and throw insults out of nowhere like "I wonder how much you watch football", "you have zero clue about football", "You don't know the United" accompanied by useless smiles. This really speaks bad about you rather than me in how you can't handle a proper discussion without insulting the other poster.

I'm only going to replay because I have to but I'm not going any farther, after that I'm throwing you on my ignore list for good because I have no interest in talking to someone so childish in his behavior like that, and unlike you, I'm not going to throw the same insults because I'm not as childish.

First, the difference between CL and EL in later stages when the schedule become condensed and your fitness drops by second half of the season is that by the end of CL most of the teams reaching the end stages are from Spain, Germany and Italy etc as the weak teams get eliminated early by then, while in EL you can be in March and still be playing these kind of teams, which is something we witnessed ourselves in our previous EL run. Not to mention the difference in days between games which varies in CL while in EL it's always about 2 days between your game and the league one, so of course EL is far more exhausting than CL. More games and rounds played to reach final, teams from different and far countries that you can encounter in latter stages and less rest inbetween matches. We experienced all of these previously.

Yeah so because we signed some senior players that didn't work it means we should never sign senior players again and focus on young prospects and Championship players to me. Looks legit to me.

Salah and Mane were established players when Liverpool signed. What the feck are you talking about ? Salah played 2.5 years in Italy and established himself there, he was one of Roma's best players, and Mane was tearing it apart with Southampton and was a target for several top clubs. Ox was also an established player when Liverpool signed him from Arsenal, not from "Championship". Fabinho, Shaqiri and Keita all were established players as well.

There's no problem in general to sign players from Championship or young prospects. Never said that, and each top team sign those kind of players. The main problem is when you sell your main senior players then focus on replacing them by junior ones in the same squad who struggled to get a spot ahead of these, or selling your senior attackers then depend completely on replacing them with only one winger from Championship is beyond comical and it's not building anything in the team. No top club does this shite anymore. There's no problem in signing James as a young prospect but you should have signed a top striker alongside him as well, not entering a season with a Championship winger as your only attacking signing. Anyone with 2 eyes can see that will end in a disaster when injuries star to roll and you find yourself depending on 17 years old Greenwood as your only striker option.

Herrera and Fellaini were important and main midfielders who played the majority of games every season and helped us win many games whatever the fans liked their style or not, and Lukaku was guaranteeing you at least 15-25 goals a years as a striker option. Either a starter or from the bench. These players were important and provided squad depth. You start with Lukaku in one game and you'll have Rashford or Martial on the bench for the second half, or the opposite. Start with Herrera and you'll have Fellaini on the bench in case you want to go direct by the end of the game, or the opposite. You had several options to choose from and players never having it easy with maintaining their main positions because there are other important players that come and help the team.

Now ? Rashford and Martial are our only 2 senior good options in the attack. The bench proved how useless it's in the last 2 games when plan A didn't work and we had absolutely nothing to change the course of the game when we were drawing and losing. Previously we would have had at least one of Rashford/Martial/Lukaku on the bench waiting to come on by the middle of second half. Now, nope, both Rashford and Martial are starting because there's no one else to play and there's no more senior strikers to bring, so we brought on the 17 years old Greenwood and past it Mata to change the course of last game and I guess it worked out pretty well ? Well expect more of this once we hit the second half of the season, fitness drops and injuries start to roll. Make sure to not moan when this happens, but I won't know anyway as you'll be on my ignore list for good.

Squad isn't built overnight ? Yeah fine. That's when you're taking obvious good steps and you fix the team per summers not fecking up the squad completely in one summer then spend next several summers trying to fix what you fecked, just to discover the positions you already fixed now need replacement as well because you wasted their prime years.

Now we have a decent defense, a non existent midfield and an attack full of inexperienced youngsters. Next summer we'll have to fix the entire midfield and attack with loads of signings in order to compete, and oh, on top of that you'll have to deal with Pogba's solution if we ended up having a shite season and he asked to leave again, which will feck up your midfield even further. Good luck spending extra 300m or so to fix all their problems.

United have done nothing close to start rebuilding a squad this summer. We just fixed the defense a bit and fecked up the rest of the team completely. We're back to exactly where LVG left us, with a decent defense and terrible midfield and attack, which speaks crap about how the club is managed from up to bottom.

Goodbye for good.

 

[Offside]

Great, we look like a young mobile team again. Onwards and upwards.

 

[romufc]

Weird. I never insulted you in any of my previous posts, respected you and talked to you in sensible way but here you went on and throw insults out of nowhere like "I wonder how much you watch football", "you have zero clue about football", "You don't know the United" accompanied by useless smiles. This really speaks bad about you rather than me in how you can't handle a proper discussion without insulting the other poster.

I'm only going to replay because I have to but I'm not going any farther, after that I'm throwing you on my ignore list for good because I have no interest in talking to someone so childish in his behavior like that, and unlike you, I'm not going to throw the same insults because I'm not as childish.

First, the difference between CL and EL in later stages when the schedule become condensed and your fitness drops by second half of the season is that by the end of CL most of the teams reaching the end stages are from Spain, Germany and Italy etc as the weak teams get eliminated early by then, while in EL you can be in March and still be playing these kind of teams, which is something we witnessed ourselves in our previous EL run. Not to mention the difference in days between games which varies in CL while in EL it's always about 2 days between your game and the league one, so of course EL is far more exhausting than CL. More games and rounds played to reach final, teams from different and far countries that you can encounter in latter stages and less rest inbetween matches. We experienced all of these previously.

Yeah so because we signed some senior players that didn't work it means we should never sign senior players again and focus on young prospects and Championship players to me. Looks legit to me.

Salah and Mane were established players when Liverpool signed. What the feck are you talking about ? Salah played 2.5 years in Italy and established himself there, he was one of Roma's best players, and Mane was tearing it apart with Southampton and was a target for several top clubs. Ox was also an established player when Liverpool signed him from Arsenal, not from "Championship". Fabinho, Shaqiri and Keita all were established players as well.

There's no problem in general to sign players from Championship or young prospects. Never said that, and each top team sign those kind of players. The main problem is when you sell your main senior players then focus on replacing them by junior ones in the same squad who struggled to get a spot ahead of these, or selling your senior attackers then depend completely on replacing them with only one winger from Championship is beyond comical and it's not building anything in the team. No top club does this shite anymore. There's no problem in signing James as a young prospect but you should have signed a top striker alongside him as well, not entering a season with a Championship winger as your only attacking signing. Anyone with 2 eyes can see that will end in a disaster when injuries star to roll and you find yourself depending on 17 years old Greenwood as your only striker option.

Herrera and Fellaini were important and main midfielders who played the majority of games every season and helped us win many games whatever the fans liked their style or not, and Lukaku was guaranteeing you at least 15-25 goals a years as a striker option. Either a starter or from the bench. These players were important and provided squad depth. You start with Lukaku in one game and you'll have Rashford or Martial on the bench for the second half, or the opposite. Start with Herrera and you'll have Fellaini on the bench in case you want to go direct by the end of the game, or the opposite. You had several options to choose from and players never having it easy with maintaining their main positions because there are other important players that come and help the team.

Now ? Rashford and Martial are our only 2 senior good options in the attack. The bench proved how useless it's in the last 2 games when plan A didn't work and we had absolutely nothing to change the course of the game when we were drawing and losing. Previously we would have had at least one of Rashford/Martial/Lukaku on the bench waiting to come on by the middle of second half. Now, nope, both Rashford and Martial are starting because there's no one else to play and there's no more senior strikers to bring, so we brought on the 17 years old Greenwood and past it Mata to change the course of last game and I guess it worked out pretty well ? Well expect more of this once we hit the second half of the season, fitness drops and injuries start to roll. Make sure to not moan when this happens, but I won't know anyway as you'll be on my ignore list for good.

Squad isn't built overnight ? Yeah fine. That's when you're taking obvious good steps and you fix the team per summers not fecking up the squad completely in one summer then spend next several summers trying to fix what you fecked, just to discover the positions you already fixed now need replacement as well because you wasted their prime years.

Now we have a decent defense, a non existent midfield and an attack full of inexperienced youngsters. Next summer we'll have to fix the entire midfield and attack with loads of signings in order to compete, and oh, on top of that you'll have to deal with Pogba's solution if we ended up having a shite season and he asked to leave again, which will feck up your midfield even further. Good luck spending extra 300m or so to fix all their problems.

United have done nothing close to start rebuilding a squad this summer. We just fixed the defense a bit and fecked up the rest of the team completely. We're back to exactly where LVG left us, with a decent defense and terrible midfield and attack, which speaks crap about how the club is managed from up to bottom.

Goodbye for good.

Goodbye