[Pogue Mahone]

8 goals and 5 assists in the nine premier league matches after Ole first came in. I was pretty impressed. He was garbage not long after. I'm sure the fact he no longer was playing to prove Jose wrong was also a factor but it did coincide with Herrera's injury.

Strength of opposition also played a big part in that run of form. Perfect combination of fixtures to maximise the post-Mourinho bounce.

The main thing is, he played a lot of games under Mourinho with Herrera and Matic with no less mixed results than we've seen so far this season.

 

[Sterling Archer]

Strength of opposition also played a big part in that run of form. Perfect combination of fixtures to maximise the post-Mourinho bounce.

The main thing is, he played a lot of games under Mourinho with Herrera and Matic with no less mixed results than we've seen so far this season.

That's true. Seeing the latest drama with his social media activity makes me feel silly for giving him any sort of defense. I was staunchly in favor of binning him along with Jose at the time. Between the noise over the summer, his poor form and now this I'm swinging back to being done.

 

[Hammondo]

4th best in chances created playing deep.

pointless statistic when we do not know the quality of the chances.

 

[Hammondo]

He's wasted in a double pivot. If Ole is determined to continue with this formation, and the club have decided to stick with Ole no matter what, we may as well move him on and reinvest in a more mobile and defensively minded midfielder who can rotate possession without taking the risks Pogba does.

Would also need a better attacking midfielder to create chances too, but given what we would get that shouldn't be a problem. Knowing the way we are run though, we would probably sell him, sack Ole a month later and bring in a coach who changes formation again.

If we stop playing Pogba in his deeper role than he is an attacking midfielder.

 

[roonster09]

Strength of opposition also played a big part in that run of form. Perfect combination of fixtures to maximise the post-Mourinho bounce.

The main thing is, he played a lot of games under Mourinho with Herrera and Matic with no less mixed results than we've seen so far this season.

Not sure about Matic (too much to check), I checked Herrera and Pogba games, if I have done the checks correctly then both of them started together in just 7 league games in 2017-18 season.

Stoke City away - 1 assist
Everton away - 2 assists
ManCity away - 2 goals
WBA away
Bournemouth - 1 assist
Arsenal - 1 goal
West Ham

CL
FC Basel
CSKA - 1 assist

 

[Andy_Cole]

Honestly, they can take him. The circus goes away.

Only if the board reinvests the money like Liverpool did after seeing Coutinho...

Which they won’t

 

[Oldyella]

If we stop playing Pogba in his deeper role than he is an attacking midfielder.

Behind a striker? It may work but hes never played that far forward before(that I am aware of). Hes a square peg we are trying to fit into a round hole. Personally just wish we would play a 433, but so far, Ole seems not to.

 

[He'sRaldo]

Also, Ozil won a World Cup in 2014 when he was an Arsenal player. Likewise, Pogba won a World Cup in 2018 as a United player. Which shows that they are/were still top class, when they have the right system and better players alongside them.

With that said, Pogba should obviously still shoulder responsibility for his poor performances.

Yep, quite a few parallels if you really want to think about it.


- both created a ton of chances for a striker who missed chances consistently in a season.
- both slated for their lack of defensive intensity.
- both had their commitment and desire questioned, maybe unfairly, probably due to the above.
- same complaints for both about not fitting a tactical gameplan, probably also due to (2)
- both play with significantly less regarded teammates.
- both slated for lack of leadership while being the "star player".

etc.


At the end of the day, I think the main culprit is that they both went to relatively underachieving teams. That's all there is to it.

 

[Jeppers7]

Not sure about Matic (too much to check), I checked Herrera and Pogba games, if I have done the checks correctly then both of them started together in just 7 league games in 2017-18 season.

Stoke City away - 1 assist
Everton away - 2 assists
ManCity away - 2 goals
WBA away
Bournemouth - 1 assist
Arsenal - 1 goal
West Ham

CL
FC Basel
CSKA - 1 assist

So 3 goals 5 assists in a tricky run of fixtures.

I'm bored of the irrational analysis of Pogba, if these people are right then Pogba has never played well for us, never tries, always gives the ball away, always holds it too long, only plays for himself, has had no periods of good form, was rubbish for Juve and bang average in the World Cup.

There's some people that hate him so much they refute anything good about him. Literally 10-15 posters that if anything positive is said they have to attack it. It's not possible that he played well. History is rewritten against his time at Juve, his performances in the World Cup, his good runs of form at united, the fact he has statistically performed for United at a higher rate than any other player, he's produced end product.

If he plays badly, he'll get marked accordingly in my book, he'd get criticised for it except there's so much negativity around him if he does play badly that you'd be led to believe he's only played badly for three years.

It's pathetic....yes all players get criticism but they don't have people trying to claim they've never played well.

Compare Pogba to Sanchez, or Di Maria or Schneiderlin or Darmian or Depay or Matic? In fact it's very difficult to name any players who've been better during Pogba's time back at United. DeGea for sure, then who ?

You've got players who are well liked Herrera, Mata does anyone really want to argue they performed better than Pogba in their time ?

You'd honestly think Pogba had been the second coming of Gary Birtles or. Neil Webb the way people go on on here.

He might not have been great....but news flash...we've been utter shite, and whilst I think we are finally heading in the right direction after the summer signings and clearout, this season is going to be a very difficult one because we are short in quality and numbers. Let's not pretend everyone has been better than him. He's been a hell of a lot better than 90% of his teammates and he's far more important to us than any bar perhaps Maguire and DeGea(at a push these days)

 

[Full bodied red]

So 3 goals 5 assists in a tricky run of fixtures.

I'm bored of the irrational analysis of Pogba, if these people are right then Pogba has never played well for us, never tries, always gives the ball away, always holds it too long, only plays for himself, has had no periods of good form, was rubbish for Juve and bang average in the World Cup.

There's some people that hate him so much they refute anything good about him. Literally 10-15 posters that if anything positive is said they have to attack it. It's not possible that he played well. History is rewritten against his time at Juve, his performances in the World Cup, his good runs of form at united, the fact he has statistically performed for United at a higher rate than any other player, he's produced end product.

If he plays badly, he'll get marked accordingly in my book, he'd get criticised for it except there's so much negativity around him if he does play badly that you'd be led to believe he's only played badly for three years.

It's pathetic....yes all players get criticism but they don't have people trying to claim they've never played well.

Compare Pogba to Sanchez, or Di Maria or Schneiderlin or Darmian or Depay or Matic? In fact it's very difficult to name any players who've been better during Pogba's time back at United. DeGea for sure, then who ?

You've got players who are well liked Herrera, Mata does anyone really want to argue they performed better than Pogba in their time ?

You'd honestly think Pogba had been the second coming of Gary Birtles or. Neil Webb the way people go on on here.

He might not have been great....but news flash...we've been utter shite, and whilst I think we are finally heading in the right direction after the summer signings and clearout, this season is going to be a very difficult one because we are short in quality and numbers. Let's not pretend everyone has been better than him. He's been a hell of a lot better than 90% of his teammates and he's far more important to us than any bar perhaps Maguire and DeGea(at a push these days)

Sanchez, Di Maria, Schneiderlin, Darmian and Depay were told to feck off.

Time Pogba got the same treatment if he continues to treat the club and us, the fans, like something he found stuck on the bottom of his shoe.

He is NOT irreplaceable - much as people on here and in his agent's office think he is.

And don't tell us that he is shite because the rest of the team is shite - he was bought to play to the best of his ability. If what we've seen from him for 90% of the past 12 months is the best of his ability, then he's no less shite than Sanchez, Di Maria, Schneiderlin, etc, etc....

 

[Mr PG]

Fact is he’s still a very good player with a few kinks that need to be ironed out from his game to be a top top player game in game out. He insists on doing these fancy turns and dribbles when surrounded by opponents... even when he’s playing deep. Makes me want to strangle him. For every 2 assists he gives us he gives opposition one and I’m afraid his ego is much too big for Ole to handle. Against Southampton if I was the coach I would have been screaming my head off from the touch line when he gave the ball away 3 times before halftime. I honestly don’t know what the feck is going through his head. Maybe he wants to impress Madrid but I don’t know how he can’t see it backfires every time. I love Pogba but I want us to sell him he’s not a central midfielder and will never be... we need two terriers then we can buy a creative number 10 and we’ll be sorted. I believe united were ready to sell nobody wanted him for the money. If Madrid really wanted him they’d have bought him first week in the summer

 

[Jeppers7]

Sanchez, Di Maria, Schneiderlin, Darmian and Depay were told to feck off.

Time Pogba got the same treatment if he continues to treat the club and us, the fans, like something he found stuck on the bottom of his shoe.

He is NOT irreplaceable - much as people on here and in his agent's office think he is.

And don't tell us that he is shite because the rest of the team is shite - he was bought to play to the best of his ability. If what we've seen from him for 90% of the past 12 months is the best of his ability, then he's no less shite than Sanchez, Di Maria, Schneiderlin, etc, etc....

So he's not been better than Sanchez, Di Maria and Schneiderlin ?

You don't argue that the rest of the team has been shite, because you can't argue that....you just want to say without context Pogba has been shite? You can't name players who have performed better over the past three years but want to pretend Pogba has been awful 90% of the time? And if that's the case yet he's still been better than most other players....then there's problems somewhere that need looking at before we get to Pogba.

Did anyone notice Kante's form last season. Was it an excuse that he played out of position?

Does anyone think Liverpools front three is not the reason a midfield of Henderson, Milner, Wijnildum has worked?

Fact is he's had periods of poor form, periods of average form and periods of great form....I'm not here to pretend he's been great or that he hasn't had spells of bad form. But overall he's one of our most important players and capable even on a bad day of winning matches for us.

The problem with you and others on here is you want to overlook the good and pretend it's not there, you've overlooked the majority of my post and homed straight in on the part you felt you could turn to a negative....and then you want to ignore context.

It's irrational.

 

[Jeppers7]

Fact is he’s still a very good player with a few kinks that need to be ironed out from his game to be a top top player game in game out. He insists on doing these fancy turns and dribbles when surrounded by opponents... even when he’s playing deep. Makes me want to strangle him. For every 2 assists he gives us he gives opposition one and I’m afraid his ego is much too big for Ole to handle. Against Southampton if I was the coach I would have been screaming my head off from the touch line when he gave the ball away 3 times before halftime. I honestly don’t know what the feck is going through his head. Maybe he wants to impress Madrid but I don’t know how he can’t see it backfires every time. I love Pogba but I want us to sell him he’s not a central midfielder and will never be... we need two terriers then we can buy a creative number 10 and we’ll be sorted. I believe united were ready to sell nobody wanted him for the money. If Madrid really wanted him they’d have bought him first week in the summer

I only saw the second half, all I hear about though is this ten minute period in the first half when he gave the ball away three times. It's crazy because second half I watched McTomminay give the ball away ridiculously three times in a row, Mata lose the ball, hold the ball too long or play aimless passes and Rashford mess up every attack with strange decisions.

Pogba was the only player who produced consistent quality, perhaps Maguire too, in the second half of that game. I'm astounded it's getting overlooked because he lost the ball three times. I guessing McTomminays thread isn't filled with 'the sooner he's out of my club the better'.

 

[Adam-Utd]

I only saw the second half, all I hear about though is this ten minute period in the first half when he gave the ball away three times. It's crazy because second half I watched McTomminay give the ball away ridiculously three times in a row, Mata lose the ball, hold the ball too long or play aimless passes and Rashford mess up every attack with strange decisions.

Pogba was the only player who produced consistent quality, perhaps Maguire too, in the second half of that game. I'm astounded it's getting overlooked because he lost the ball three times. I guessing McTomminays thread isn't filled with 'the sooner he's out of my club the better'.

We know Pogba is under a microscope. Anything he does not to perfection gets criticised way more than others.

The funny thing is the only reason he loses the ball is because they pressure him ASAP knowing he's the teams danger. He doesn't hide or shirk the responsibility either so 8/10 it works, other times he loses it.

 

[roonster09]

So 3 goals 5 assists in a tricky run of fixtures.

I'm bored of the irrational analysis of Pogba, if these people are right then Pogba has never played well for us, never tries, always gives the ball away, always holds it too long, only plays for himself, has had no periods of good form, was rubbish for Juve and bang average in the World Cup.

I have given up defending him, in fact I have given up defending most players. There is 0 thought process is most of the criticism. Highlighting mistake is all well and good but when the people write off their career or play down because of few mistakes then there is no point defending that.

 

[Bestietom]

Everytime someone says something bad about Pogba on here they get lit on by his fans. They all should wake up and smell the coffee. Pogba is only playing at 50% for us atm. His long passes are not coming off anymore, and he is losing the ball because he spends too long on it. Until he is moved on or dropped ( which we are too thin, to do) we will have to put up with this. He just doesn't want to be here, and he is stuffing everyone in saying that he will give his all.

 

[Pogue Mahone]

We know Pogba is under a microscope. Anything he does not to perfection gets criticised way more than others.

The funny thing is the only reason he loses the ball is because they pressure him ASAP knowing he's the teams danger. He doesn't hide or shirk the responsibility either so 8/10 it works, other times he loses it.

That’s definitely not the only reason he loses the ball.

 

[Adam-Utd]

That’s definitely not the only reason he loses the ball.

OK perhaps I worded it wrong. Not the only reason, but the main reason.

 

[Pogue Mahone]

OK perhaps I worded it wrong. Not the only reason, but the main reason.

The main reason he gets repeatedly dispossessed is because he takes too many touches. A cleverer footballer would deal with the press you describe by passing the ball with his first touch, then moving into space to receive the ball back with more time to pass.

Pogba fecking constantly dallies on the ball, letting his marker get tight to him, so he can try to out-muscle him or beat him with some skill. Sometimes this works, often it doesn’t. Looks great when it comes off but it’s a pointlessly low percentage approach.

 

[ayushreddevil9]

The main reason he gets repeatedly dispossessed is because he takes too many touches. A cleverer footballer would deal with the press you describe by passing the ball with his first touch, then moving into space to receive the ball back with more time to pass.

Pogba fecking constantly dallies on the ball, letting his marker get tight to him, so he can try to out-muscle him or beat him with some skill. Sometimes this works, often it doesn’t. Looks great when it comes off but it’s a pointlessly low percentage approach.

This. People just don't want to see this. They justify it by saying that 'atleast he tries to do something' as if taking time and dribbling is the only way to create. In so many instances he could have kept it simple and dictate the tempo but nope.

 

[cyberman]

The main reason he gets repeatedly dispossessed is because he takes too many touches. A cleverer footballer would deal with the press you describe by passing the ball with his first touch, then moving into space to receive the ball back with more time to pass.

Pogba fecking constantly dallies on the ball, letting his marker get tight to him, so he can try to out-muscle him or beat him with some skill. Sometimes this works, often it doesn’t. Looks great when it comes off but it’s a pointlessly low percentage approach.

Not only that but when he tries to play this way he welcomes the press which not only closes the ball down but his passing options as well. He forces his teammates to accept the ball under pressure and the play becomes disjointed because of it.

 

[Full bodied red]

So he's not been better than Sanchez, Di Maria and Schneiderlin ?

You don't argue that the rest of the team has been shite, because you can't argue that....you just want to say without context Pogba has been shite? You can't name players who have performed better over the past three years but want to pretend Pogba has been awful 90% of the time? And if that's the case yet he's still been better than most other players....then there's problems somewhere that need looking at before we get to Pogba.

Did anyone notice Kante's form last season. Was it an excuse that he played out of position?

Does anyone think Liverpools front three is not the reason a midfield of Henderson, Milner, Wijnildum has worked?

Fact is he's had periods of poor form, periods of average form and periods of great form....I'm not here to pretend he's been great or that he hasn't had spells of bad form. But overall he's one of our most important players and capable even on a bad day of winning matches for us.

The problem with you and others on here is you want to overlook the good and pretend it's not there, you've overlooked the majority of my post and homed straight in on the part you felt you could turn to a negative....and then you want to ignore context.

It's irrational.

When I worked with absolutely useless colleagues, shite colleagues, I tried even harder to do my job the absolute best I could so that I wouldn't be seen to drop to their level and have people call me shite as well - I didn't just say to myself ' What the feck - they're all shit so I might as well be shit 'cos it doesn't matter. '

If you or anyone else is going to argue that what we've seen from Pogba so far is him working harder and at his absolute best because the rest of the team are not at his level, then whether he has been better than Di Maria, Sanchez, Depay and the others is not important because he simply hasn't been good enough if that's the best we're ever going to see because he can't be arsed until we buy Eriksen, Aguero and Messi to help him play better.

 

[OL29]

The main reason he gets repeatedly dispossessed is because he takes too many touches. A cleverer footballer would deal with the press you describe by passing the ball with his first touch, then moving into space to receive the ball back with more time to pass.

Pogba fecking constantly dallies on the ball, letting his marker get tight to him, so he can try to out-muscle him or beat him with some skill. Sometimes this works, often it doesn’t. Looks great when it comes off but it’s a pointlessly low percentage approach.

Yeah that’s his most annoying habit, he plays like a winger in midfield.

 

[Mr PG]

Compare De-Gea's attempts to go to Madrid with Pogba's. Once he realized Madrid weren't pushing out the boat for him, De-gea (and that is his home) signed a new contract and put his head down to work. Pogba on the other hand is carrying out a campaign with his agent whose only possible aim could (United have never said he's not for sale) be to lower his asking fee so he could leave. Quite disrespectful and I wish we had never gone back in for him from Juventus.

And btw, it's not that Pogba is not smart enough in midfield it's just that he doesn't respect the club enough as he rarely ever does this for France who have enough good players and would drop him in a heartbeat.

 

[Jeppers7]

I have given up defending him, in fact I have given up defending most players. There is 0 thought process is most of the criticism. Highlighting mistake is all well and good but when the people write off their career or play down because of few mistakes then there is no point defending that.

I think I'll follow suit. If people are only focussing on the negative and convincing themselves that's the whole picture than I'm done with trying to reason.

Go the other way....Pogba was fantastic on Saturday. Created three really good chances in the space of ten minutes and never gave the ball away once (second half ).

It's a pointless debate when some people can't be rational. They even try to portray anyone defending Pogba as being irrational when they attempt to make out like it's a 100% negative picture with no positives

 

[TsuWave]

 

[Cassidy]

I'm going to have to dispute this, I mean we haven't created much in our games, this seems a little far fetched

 

[He'sRaldo]

I'm going to have to dispute this, I mean we haven't created much in our games, this seems a little far fetched

I think we haven't scored much, but we definitely have been creating.

Same way we have conceded a lot more than we should have.

 

[Jeppers7]

No surprise here.

 

[izzydiggler]

I'm going to have to dispute this, I mean we haven't created much in our games, this seems a little far fetched

Might include the chances he’s creating for the opposition too.

 

[TsuWave]

 

[FerociousCorgis]

It is a bit funny to see how people think we will easily replace pogba in midfield. What has management shown to give people such confidence? They can't even identify targets in midfield to help pogba, let alone replace a talent like him. Subtract pogba and add in one midfielder, cause i would be shocked to see us actually be able to identify and bring in multiple midfield targets, and this team will be a clear midtable team.

 

[fergiesarmy1]

I only saw the second half, all I hear about though is this ten minute period in the first half when he gave the ball away three times. It's crazy because second half I watched McTomminay give the ball away ridiculously three times in a row, Mata lose the ball, hold

I'm going to have to dispute this, I mean we haven't created much in our games, this seems a little far fetched

What’s their definition of a chance an all, like real chance or him passing to someone who hits row Z?

I can’t remember anything in the last game I’d count that’s for sure.

 

[Majima]

He's doing the work of two men on his own. But he can't finish off the chances himself so he's a liability they say... You would think people who actually watch our matches every week would be more appreciative of his effort but i guess not.

He had the pick of all the top clubs when he was at Juve but he chose to come back home and help us instead, now look at the abuse he gets on a weekly basis from some of our fans. It's disgraceful.

Pogba's midfield partners:

• McTominay
• Pereira
• Lingard
• Matic
• Mata

Objectively, that isn't even a mid-table midfield.

So he is forced to play deeper, to help out the rest of the midfield. Does anyone really think Pogba playing cdm is by design to get the best out of him?

De Bruyne has:

• Fernandinho
• David Silva
• Bernardo Silva
• Rodrigo
• Gundogan
• Mahrez

Enough said.

He gets to play much higher up, attempts a lot more crosses and hasn't got to worry about the rest of the midfield not being able to cope on their own.

So with all these extra benefits, De Bruyne has managed to create 2 more chances from open play compared to Pogba. Bear in mind Pogba plays in a dysfunctional team under an inexperienced manager whilst De Bruyne plays in a stacked well-oiled machine under the top manager in the world...

De Bruyne is the greatest thing since sliced bread though right?

 

[Cassidy]

Hes played poorly in my opinion and I am a fan of Pogba

 

[Jeppers7]

Not committed though

 

[Jeppers7]

What’s their definition of a chance an all, like real chance or him passing to someone who hits row Z?

I can’t remember anything in the last game I’d count that’s for sure.

What's someone hitting row z got to do with anything ?

 

[ayushreddevil9]

He's doing the work of two men on his own. But he can't finish off the chances himself so he's a liability they say... You would think people who actually watch our matches every week would be more appreciative of his effort but i guess not.

He had the pick of all the top clubs when he was at Juve but he chose to come back home and help us instead, now look at the abuse he gets on a weekly basis from some of our fans. It's disgraceful.

Pogba's midfield partners:

• McTominay
• Pereira
• Lingard
• Matic
• Mata

Objectively, that isn't even a mid-table midfield.

So he is forced to play deeper, to help out the rest of the midfield. Does anyone really think Pogba playing cdm is by design to get the best out of him?

De Bruyne has:

• Fernandinho
• David Silva
• Bernardo Silva
• Rodrigo
• Gundogan
• Mahrez

Enough said.

He gets to play much higher up, attempts a lot more crosses and hasn't got to worry about the rest of the midfield not being able to cope on their own.

So with all these extra benefits, De Bruyne has managed to create 2 more chances from open play compared to Pogba. Bear in mind Pogba plays in a dysfunctional team under an inexperienced manager whilst De Bruyne plays in a stacked well-oiled machine under the top manager in the world...

De Bruyne is the greatest thing since sliced bread though right?

I don't think people are calling him out because of the effort. It's because the silly things he does in the middle of the park.

How do you justify losing the ball so many times? Why is there a constant need for him to dribble past his opponents? Everyone doubles up on pogba so dribbling is gonna fail more times than succeed. Why does he take so much time on the ball for like every other opportunity he gets? Why can't he play quick and dictate tempo? It's these silly things that he needs to trim out of his game. He literally did that for France during the WC and maybe that's what Jose meant when he said that Pogba must understand why he was a success for NT.

I can kind of see why he has to play further deep but that has nothing to do with the problems I just mentioned. Nobody is doubting his abilities, he is the only creative force in the team.

 

[bond19821982]

He is wasting his talent here. He should be playing at Real or Barca. Such an extraordinary midfielder.

 

[izzydiggler]

Do people watch football nowadays or just analyse via stats?

I don't see how anybody with eyes can watch Pogba and think he's absolutely brilliant most weeks.

It's what makes me not care about him leaving...if the rhetoric from his acolytes was the agreement that he's been poor but it's 'insert list of excuses' then I could possibly get on board but when they are claiming THIS is great, then my own eyes tell me he's nowhere near as valuable as some people think.

Add the partly self-fuelled circus around him and I can't wait to see the back of him.