If you assess a players effectiveness by percentage win rate then I cant have discussion with you. He's a creative outlet in the middle of the park, doesnt have to be goals and assists but along with Bruno he's very important to us.
Paul Pogba / turned down United offer of 300k as “nothing”
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik (@Rood) is joined by CEO Duncan Drasdo and Financial Director Andy Green from the Manchester United Supporters Trust for a special episode on all things behind the scenes at Old Trafford including a brief history of MUST and their aims today, views on INEOS and Sir Jim Ratcliffe so far, and the Old Trafford regeneration.
I will be happy if he stays. But, if he goes and we get a good replacement in a world class cm or dm, then that also works for me. The main issue will be the replacement. But, whatever happens, I hope this concludes very quickly. Cannot go into the new season with this circus.
We dont need to replace Pogba we have his replacement at the club already, DVB.
I would love it if Pogba is pulling a Ramos on PSG 
No, just going by what French journos are saying? The reason remains unknown. Sure, there is a chance he is just trying to get a leverage in contract negotiations with us, á la Ramos.
The objective of the game is to win football matches. If the team is losing far more matches when he's playing he is doing something wrong. Bruno is also a creative player for sure, and our win rate with him in the team is above the average suggesting when he plays, we win more games.
If you can't see the problem in one of our top paid players is actually contributing to us being a team who wins less matches when he is on the field then I also can't have a discussion with you.
That's true because of Zidane, but I don't think Real really wanted him otherwise they sure would have tried given how he has flirted with them for years. I just don't think anyone would pay to sign him right now except PSG. Maybe Juventus and Inter Milan if he was available on a free.
Sorry, not sure what you've been watching the last 5 years. When the chips are down, he is the first one to down tools.
I would take 40M for him this summer over losing him for free the next.
I think the issue here is Raiola's comission the base fee goes to the club then PSG will need to also compensate the agent.
Correlation doesnt imply causation.
Raiola never care about his client, this is why I feckin hate about the guy. Even Lukaku moved on from him and at least I have so much respect on Lukaku for doing that.
No, but it's not 1 or 2% that you could easily put down to randomness, it's 8%. It's the difference between the win rate of easily being 2nd to that of Leeds and West Ham.
8% is hardly huge, and considering he'd start most of our toughest games against better opposition I'm not sure it's a valid point - not to mention we played for draws in so many games against the top 6 last season.
So no, I don't see the problem as you put it. If you think that stat conclusively proves that we're better off without him then that's up to you.
Hardly huge?! It's the difference over a season between being easily 2nd or scrapping it out for a Europa Conference place.
Nothing about any of his stats is exceptional. Let's look at last season: https://www.premierleague.com/players/3920/Paul-Pogba/stats?co=1&se=363
3 goals at 0.12 a match, 3 assists at 0.12 a match.
4 big chances created in 26 games.
What is he doing then if he's not scoring, not assisting and not even creating chances?
If you think he isn't guaranteed trophies at PSG, where else is he?
I can see you are a stats lover, which is your perogative. How on earth did United used to win major trophies before the majority of these were even documented?
He actually got 6 goals and 9 assists - you cant pick and choose all comps when it suits your win percentage agenda but just use the PL when you want to present his goals/assists per game.
Btw Ryan Giggs scored 3 goals and got 1 assist in the PL in 98/99, so I'd ask the same question?
Off topic but wow, Raiola gets 20M alone in commission just to bring Donarumma to PSG on a free. What a life of a football agent
Doesnt matter. There are 10 other players on the field. There are too many variables.
Far easier analysis is the eye test. We struggled when Pogba was out, and we had to over rely on Bruno. Pogba was one of our better players last season. If stats are your thing though, Whoscored rating has him as one of our best performers fyi.
If we sell Pogba, we will be fine, but need to get another creative player. Sancho helps.
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100%. We looked far more dynamic with Pogba and Bruno - two players to pick the lock against teams that park the bus. Some people would rather just rely on stats - such a flawed approach.
That's fair about the stats. For clarity, I am not saying it's all his fault, perhaps he doesn't fit the system and will go elsewhere and be great. I've seen games of him playing for Juve and if he was anything like he was there I'd be a huge fan. Their system was clearly great for him and he felt happy.
I acknowledge that his role in big games can be helpful, we had Park who did a similar job (and better) in big games, but no one was pushing for him to be on 300k a week or acting like if he lost him it would have been catastrophic, and he didn't come with all the drama Pogba/his agent seem to bring.
The teams he has scored against don't exactly indicate big game player who comes in to save us:
- Brighton
- West Ham
- Burnley
- Fulham
- AC Milan
- Roma
Liverpool 2x D1, L1
Tottenham 2x W1,L1
Arsenal 2x D1,L1
City 2x D1, L1
Chelsea 1x D1
That's 0.77777 points per game.
Even if you give him the FA cup win over Liverpool it's still a bit of a sorry picture for someone who is meant to be one of the main men stepping up in big games.
I just think we could get a lot better for 350k per week. But I guess it's all opinion at the end of the day. He's just completely lost all support from me personally wanting more money when he's very lucky to be on what he is.
Im sorry, youre obviously a big Pogba fan, but Pogba is a defensive liability in midfield as he switches off so often and watches runners go past him and i've never seen a supposedly top player who has such prolonged dips in form. McTominay has largely benched him over the last couple of seasons to the extent that the manager has been trying him out on the wing where his defensive failings are less of an issue. He's a luxury impact player now. At this stage it should be clear to everyone that hes not one of the players who'll push us on to the next level.
Honestly wouldn't be shocked if he is indeed trying to pull a Ramos.
Pogba was one of the most consistent players for us this season just gone, only behind Luke Shaw
He'll get even more next summer if he can string this out for 6 months.
PSG couldn't even stop Lille winning the league last year
Just because we don't currently have a decent alternative doesn't mean paying him obscene wages and putting up with the constant drama is the best thing for the club.
You look at other very good CM's in the league... You look at Kante and his defensive stats are outstanding even when he had a not great season. You look at Mount and he destroys Pogba's stats offensively. You look at Pogba... And it's meh. Neither of these in their right mind would ask for 350k when they're had better seasons than him.
Don’t want to get rid of Pogba this window. Yes the agent is a problem as was his constant flirting with Real Madrid but basically we can get 40-50 mil for him now or lose him on a free. Don’t really get why people want the money over another year . Watched a YouTube vid with Rio earlier and they asked him what it was like after Reinaldo agreed to stay another year, he said it was fine. If we can get 1 more year out of pogba, potentially challenge for a title and secure champions league next year than that money (from champions league) will offset the money received from PSG. Plus if we have a good year and do challenge for the major trophy’s then there’s a good chance he’d stay imo and for a lower wage as we’d be in a stronger position to negotiate and potential quality players joining the following summer.
I thought he was very good last year and we really missed him when he was out injured (around the time we fell out of th title race coincidently) , seems to be a genuinely good guy too so even if he was planning to go , I wouldn’t worry about him upsetting the dressing room too much as by all reports (that actually know the guy) are very positive.
I would love to see how he plays with the additions of Sancho, Varane a fit again Rashford, showed some great moments with cavani and maybe Martial turns it on this season.. very exciting and would rather take that chance then ship him off at a cut price cus his agents an arse!
I thought he was very good last year and we really missed him when he was out injured (around the time we fell out of th title race coincidently) , seems to be a genuinely good guy too so even if he was planning to go , I wouldn’t worry about him upsetting the dressing room too much as by all reports (that actually know the guy) are very positive.
I would love to see how he plays with the additions of Sancho, Varane a fit again Rashford, showed some great moments with cavani and maybe Martial turns it on this season.. very exciting and would rather take that chance then ship him off at a cut price cus his agents an arse!
and they’ve since gone out and heavily invested. the first title they’ve given up in like what 7/8 years? they’re 100% winning it this season
That's not true. We look more dynamic with Fred and McTominay in midfield than Pogba. He's not the guy who plays quick passing football. He actually does the opposite, receive the ball, look around, and either long pass or pass backwards / sideways. This is much more effective in slower leagues compared to EPL.
Unless you're talking about Pogba the winger.
It's frustrating but the key thing to remember is that the media always has its own agenda. How Pogba is around and towards his teammates and staff is all that matters.
I wonder if that 350k renewal offer was pushed by the media/commercial side of the club as opposed to the football side. At this point it shouldn't matter what happens next, except for the club getting shit kicked in their face twice. Which is embarrassing but that's what the boardroom level has been like for a while now. Being sold for anything around 50mil is a bonus for us because we look to be growing up a bit and getting our shit together, I trust we will sign a more complete player more suitable to our needs.
There are lots of other players in this team that deserve our attention. Pogba can do Pogba (expensive but potential game winning bit part player) on the money offered and try to be happy and professional or go to PSG which is probably a better fit. It would be nice to have him around but not the focal point unless his football warrants it.
Either way I feel it's a win win. The culture seems to be changing at the club. We have some serious character being built with this team which is likely down to Ole using what he learned from SAF who was the master of balance between flair players and consistently solid players.
Pogba is a good guy, anyone that says otherwise is lying. He is also shrewdly advised, although there is nothing wrong with that but it doesn't mix well with passionate football fans. On the pitch is a different matter though. I don't think this league is right for him. It's time we moved on with or without him.
There are lots of other players in this team that deserve our attention. Pogba can do Pogba (expensive but potential game winning bit part player) on the money offered and try to be happy and professional or go to PSG which is probably a better fit. It would be nice to have him around but not the focal point unless his football warrants it.
Either way I feel it's a win win. The culture seems to be changing at the club. We have some serious character being built with this team which is likely down to Ole using what he learned from SAF who was the master of balance between flair players and consistently solid players.
Pogba is a good guy, anyone that says otherwise is lying. He is also shrewdly advised, although there is nothing wrong with that but it doesn't mix well with passionate football fans. On the pitch is a different matter though. I don't think this league is right for him. It's time we moved on with or without him.
I would love it if Pogba is pulling a Ramos on PSG
you would love it we get stuck with Pogba on £350k a week so he can't kick a ball straight for the next few yrs?
How do you know?
he doesnt know how to kick a ball straight btw. he only flukes it every now and then.
You know him personally to comment on his character??
He'll get his money, he'll stay. They just want their moolah. It's always been about getting paid. It's the smart choice.
The smart choice actually is leaving on a free next summer. Way more money. We're talking about 50m for him and the fat fecker. I don't think we should and could pay them that.
Of all the criticisms of stats made, this must be the weirdest ever.
The rest of your post makes sense, in that some players do not score many goals or assists to be the creative force of the team. Even Scholes did not have many assists in the second half of his career I think.