Paul Pogba
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik (@Rood) is joined by CEO Duncan Drasdo and Financial Director Andy Green from the Manchester United Supporters Trust for a special episode on all things behind the scenes at Old Trafford including a brief history of MUST and their aims today, views on INEOS and Sir Jim Ratcliffe so far, and the Old Trafford regeneration.
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Controversial post this by @manutdstuff on the Pogba situation: Man Utd Stuff Blog: Views: On the Paul Pogba situation
Somehow concurs with my thoughts.
Somehow concurs with my thoughts.
Good stuff...
Did you write it?
Not at all. He should think about it. He's played games this season when he wasn't expecting it. If he got in and kept his place, he'd probably have a renewed contract within 6 months to a year. At any rate, he should realize that that sort of money is out of reason for most people....these kids should realize that United won't underpay them forever. Maybe if they believed in themselves more they'd see it as a challenge but they're full of shit half of them.
No just caught it off twitter.
If he was shite he wouldn't be at United. Most of these players are good enough up to a point. It's their mental attitude and the way they apply themsleves week in week out on top of their talent that sets them apart. You can take that logic and say the same about anyone. The point is you can't live in a world of what if's. If the club believe in a player, then it's a complicated scenario. And the lad ain't shite. The way I see it, you can't think that way. 'God if i could turn back time, I wouldn't sign him ..or him...or him.' It just don't work.
I think it was Moses that hit the nail on the head earlier, Possebon and Gibson looked a class above playing reserve footie (as did many others over the years) but they never met fans expectations (or the clubs) once they hit the first team. What a lot of you are advocating is paying 40k a week to an 18 year old, who despite you wishing him into the first team, is apparently not ready for it yet (otherwise he'd be getting playtime)
He needs more game time between now & the end of the season.
Yes, covers a lot of points that I have been stressing on for a while in this thread.
yes, he needs to show whether he can cut the mustard
Fergie and the coaching staff know what they're doing regarding Poggy so I'm not too worried.
I do think that many Cafites are overrating Pogba. Whilst he obviously has talent, I am not going to get my cock out until I've seen him play well on a regular basis in the first team.
I remember the same fuss was made about Possebon and Tosic, many around here (myself included) went a little OTT on what they could bring to United.
I've learned not to get too carried away about unproven youngsters since - but we definitely have a bright future, no doubt about that.
I do think that many Cafites are overrating Pogba. Whilst he obviously has talent, I am not going to get my cock out until I've seen him play well on a regular basis in the first team.
I remember the same fuss was made about Possebon and Tosic, many around here (myself included) went a little OTT on what they could bring to United.
I've learned not to get too carried away about unproven youngsters since - but we definitely have a bright future, no doubt about that.
Which he's unlikely to get whilst we're in a fight with City for the title.
If he does eventually stay, money aside, I assume it will be on the proviso that he'll get more first team action next season.
The funny thing will be to then see how many of these people that are advocating throwing a stupid amount of money at a youth prospect will then throw a shit fit when we don't splash out on a 'world class' midfielder.
You'll always be disappointed at some point. The club don't overrate Pogba and neither do people but it's really up to him. Was reading something wellbeck said about his call up with Cleverly and how 'hungry' they were.
The fact is, there are so many variables that might be a cause as to why someone might not make it. It's not always down to not being good enough. We've seen down the years how a player really needs trust - for me that's the biggest thing
Evans came in, did well and looked great then he dipped. Last season, i'm sure some would have be happy if he was sold but he's stepped up and that trust from Sir Alex is what people need.
If Pogba left, for me he'll be a star at whatever club IF he applies himself right, but maybe someone else comes and is hungry. Unfortunately, someone not willing to work for what they earn, might not be hungry enough...
Perhaps you didn't understand the logical consequences of your own post.
Based on his clearly financial motivations, do you think he will allow us to sell him whereby he moves to another club on a lower salary and so allow us to claw back what (by your own definition) we have been overpaying?
No, he will see out his contract unless someone else will better it. No-one else will better it if he has proved he isn't worth it (let alone better it and pay us a fee!)
Juve think he's worth it already, if the stories are to be believed...
But this is a pointless argument as we don't know the truth of it anyway.
I saw enough of him the last time out to want to see more before the end of the season and hopefully that will happen.
His agent is clearly a cnut of the highest order...
that thought had crossed my mind
I, for one, won't be in that camp.
And we shouldn't give it to him in the position we're currently in.
This will happen of course, but if Giggs and Scholes can play another year then that should give time for Pogba to reach a decent level and some kind of consistency. He is still 18 monyhs, maybe more from being the player that we need.
Surely there must be an Ari Gold like agent out there that will take over Pogba, destroy Raiola and retain players services?
I keep thinking to myself that our strict policy on these youngster contracts will serve us great in the long run, but then again the game in general might be changing all around us which means that we might not allow ourselves to act like this in the upcoming years.
Obviously, by dealing with these situations as we are, we are making sure that the youngsters who sign new contracts truly wants to stay at the club. It's sort of an old school idea though, and it appeals to the romantic in me as we probably are looking to bring through a new Giggs or Scholes in terms of loyalty.
Financially, atleast in short to midterm, it's also a good move to keep the wage-structur so tight and underlines for all the other youngsters that they either have to deserve their wages or find a new club. That might hinder our competetiveness when it comes to luring youngsters to our club if the player gets offers from several clubs, but then again it might be sort of a selectionprosess where the players with the wrong attitude might choose another club whilst we get those who truly wants to fight and show their worth.
Obviously, by dealing with these situations as we are, we are making sure that the youngsters who sign new contracts truly wants to stay at the club. It's sort of an old school idea though, and it appeals to the romantic in me as we probably are looking to bring through a new Giggs or Scholes in terms of loyalty.
Financially, atleast in short to midterm, it's also a good move to keep the wage-structur so tight and underlines for all the other youngsters that they either have to deserve their wages or find a new club. That might hinder our competetiveness when it comes to luring youngsters to our club if the player gets offers from several clubs, but then again it might be sort of a selectionprosess where the players with the wrong attitude might choose another club whilst we get those who truly wants to fight and show their worth.
Or he might never become one. Before he proves that he has all the attributes, he shouldn't be given a penny over £20k a week we apparently laid on the table, which is already too much.
As has been shown in the past, if he signs and has a great season then the bigger contract will soon come. Hernandez was given a new contract after a year. It just depends whether Pogba has faith in his ability or is just after a fast buck.
Why not?
I'm not advocating starting him against Spurs/Shitty, but he ought to get plenty of opportunities for 15/20 mins against midtable sides & in the Europa.
Half a dozen or so run outs between now & the end of the season would be good for everyone. Then if we really need him, due to inevitable injuries, he'll be better equipped to start.
If we believe Andy Mitten, the club offered Pogba 20k a week. That is INSANE for an unproven, untested youngster who looked good at Reserve level and never even started a first-team game.
We're already bowing to the unrealistic financial demands of the modern game with that offer; no need to "restructure" our wage policy in an even more drastic fashion.
Should we pay Pogba 30k or 40k because he looked good for 20 minutes against Stoke? Come on. If an 18-year-old isn't satisfied with 20k a week after one promising substitute appearance in the first team, there's only one thing to be said to him: goodbye.
Because we're in the hunt for the league and, whether you like it or not, the Europa League. Well, he might get extra minutes against weaker sides now and then but I'm not even sure there'll be place on the bench for him.
IMO he doesnt warrant a place on the bench at the moment anyway. What happens if we struggle in one of those games, we might need someone to come on and change the game.
Plus he lack of commitment makes me rather see somebody else given a go.
20k a week for an unproven talent is absolutely pathetic.
Look on the other side of things though. Against several midtable/lesser teams, we've struggled with complacency so far this season. I'm not sure if we should give Pogba gametime as this is looking to be a battle 'til the end, but having a youngster fighting his heart out to impress might be better then a complacent player not giving it his all. Either way, it's a gamble.
I thought this previously. In fact I posted that it would be a wise move to play him in the second Ajax game, as it might help the situation.
I've changed my mind on this now though. Until he commits to the club he shouldn't be anywhere near the first team IMO.
His agent is fecking everyone over, it would appear.
I said a few pages back, he's a little kid.
I'm not making a single assumption. I'm just spotting an obviously emerging pattern. We seem to want to be renewing contracts with less than 18 months left of players we want to keep for more than just an additional year.
As Arsenal have shown it is a dangerous game to play.
Besides the point entirely. If we didn't want him at all we wouldn't have offered him anything. Bottom line we did, and did it with less than 18 months left. Which is the issue of concern here.
It isn't. His contract is running out.
I already included him. He is an older player just like Scholes, Giggs, Owen and the departed Hargreaves. I did mention oldies
The only pointless thing rather is you replied after so obviously missing the whole point of my post sadly.
But if he isn't being allowed to play there is no point in him committing is there?
That's an evil circle that one. It's where the true character of a player shows though. If he's keeping his head down and give it his all on the training ground then he might show us that he got the attitude that we're looking for. This is where the player need to show some spirit to fight for a spot in the squad rather then just expect it.
Indeed. I hope it works that way.
He should be put on a deal similar to that Morrison has now been given; starting out on wages deemed appropriate for his position and experience and rising based on appearances for the first team. If he makes it and fulfils his potential he gets the money he reckons he deserves, if he doesn't make it then he's clearly not worth the extra money and he can't have much argument.
I think some have written him off. We've said he's not sure. Not sure. Think about what they means. It's not someone in a strong state of mind. I think we'll work on him. If we didn't believe we had another year and if we didn't believe in him, he'd have been sold with Ravel. We just need to support him and let him know this is the place for him. Contracts negotiations like this, happen all the time...they happen all the time. We just need to be sensible and wait.
What he should, and what he is willing to accept is two completely different things though. And I dont think that we're the sort of clubs who makes arrangements in the same mould as what West Ham have done with Morrison. Rather then just say that they'll have a clause in their contract that will give them a raise or whatever if they perform well / score X amount of goals, then we'd rather assess them over a longer periode of time and reward them with a brand new contract if we see it fit. That way players will have a long term goal to aim at, rather then to hope to achieve whatevers in their contract.
This thread is 88 pages of recycled posts.
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