This.
Paul Pogba
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik (@Rood) is joined by CEO Duncan Drasdo and Financial Director Andy Green from the Manchester United Supporters Trust for a special episode on all things behind the scenes at Old Trafford including a brief history of MUST and their aims today, views on INEOS and Sir Jim Ratcliffe so far, and the Old Trafford regeneration.
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He's got more idea than you lot. I don't just trust every gimp off twitter. He's been right on stuff before and doesn't put stuff like that on his live feed so he's not a "look at me idiot". Whatever, believe it or not. We'll see how it pans out.
Besides, we were buying Phil Jones and not getting him to sign a new contract. And also the fact that there was plenty of competition to buy him as well.
Whoever it is, it's probably me.
You know best, as always pogue. How is ljajic getting on by the way?
He's tweeting bollox though.
What does he mean by "on the cheap"? How does he know what the club is offering Pogba? If it's less than the player wants does that make it objectively "on the cheap"?
Or is there some sort of cut-off point, in terms of the weekly wage, between "on the cheap" and "not on the cheap"?
I would never claim to be ITK but I can tell you for a fact that we're not offering Pogba/his agent as much money as they think they should get. Otherwise they'd have signed by now. Maybe I should make a post on twitter about the club trying to rip them off?
I bet it isn't.
I very much doubt they'll be offering him National minimum wage.
Well isn't his value in salary what someone is prepared to pay him? Purely hypothetically, say we're offering £20k and jive are offering 40k. You are going to think that juve want you more than united and if they're paying you that they are expecting you to be in and around the first team. Add in that he's got his agent in his ear all the time and he's an 18 year old kid and you can begin to understand why he's confused.
Then he should go, if we are offering an unproven 18YO 20k a week as such and they turn it down ( I know it's hypoithetical ) to go play for another club that doesn't offer what we offer, then the doors over there, backside, way out etc.
Well, obviously, yes.
Of course, this doesn't mean that the club has to pay more than the highest offer his agent can drum up from any other club in Europe. Nor does it mean that a failure to match their offer is an attempt to sign him "on the cheap".
If you use the logic that we should pay all our players the same as the highest wage on offer at any other club we'd be fecked in no time. Have you seen the salaries on offer at City?
No, but I think the respective offers are a long way apart. You're an 18 year old French kid with no emotional links to united and another club is saying we'll pay you far more than your current club will and we see you as a first team player. You are going to think that the other club value you higher and will give you a better opportunity to play first team football. It's not black and white. What's more your agent wants you to move to make money so is chipping at you every day.
Hmmm... I'm suddenly reminded of this post.
How do you know the offers are a long way apart?
Look, believe me, don't believe. I don't really care. Someone who has always been reliable in the past and who doesn't advertise their links told me something which I think is perfectly plausible and, on previous form, I have no reason to disbelieve. Think what you like. I'm very sorry if the truth has got in the way of all the anti pogba vitriol.
So many fans forget that footballers are human beings. This isn't fecking football manager.
This is the idealistic look at things, though a bit far from reality.
Our perception of the club, as fans, is so much different than everybody else's. Yes, we're a top tier club, respected across the world but we're not magical, special or some other far fetched rawk-like claim. To say only two or three clubs across Europe come close to us is exaggerating the truth by quite a bit.
And yes, it's absolute arrogance to say winning trophies with other clubs would be "miserly by an order of magnitude". Maybe from our point of view, not from a player's though.
Still, a great post and Pogba should read it. Might change his mind.
True, but there are a few basic truth. United is one of the biggest clubs in the world, every player wants to reach them. United is also one big club where young players will get a real chance. All that should make it fairly simple. For some reason, it isn't with Pogba, probably because of the agent.
I'm just not bothered. A bit shocked this thread is so huge. Would be quite funny if it ends up with his United career consisting of 20 league minutes.
"This club have offered me twice as much money and Champions League football, are you prepared to match them?"
"We're Manchester United, so just sign the contract"
"but the deal they're offering me is much better and they're in the same competitions you are...If I'm to stay with you how are you planning to compete with them in the future?"
"We're Manchester United, so just sign the contract"
Believe it or not, most players aren't die hard United fans, and if I was Paul Pogba (or anyone else for that matter) in this situation, I know what I'd be doing...in fact even if I was a life long United fan I'd be having myself a good ponder.
As said, the best way to avoid this scenario is to not wait until a player's contract is nearly up before offering them a new one...then it's much more likely they don't have the better offers on the table in the first place. As soon as they do you either put up or shut up. Winning things in the past means bugger all when it comes to competing for things in the future.
Exactemundo.
Some of you lot are living in an idealistic world. Just an observation. Not many are seeing the situation as Pogba "might" be seeing it at this time.
Money usually talks.
That's not what he said. He was referring to the likely size of Pogba's trophy haul playing for United vs what he might win at Juve. Based on the past few years that's factually accurate.
As for the "top two or three clubs" if you look at every league in Europe then yes, there are lots of clubs dominating domestically to a similar extent as United. The PL is, by any definition, one of the three or four biggest leagues in Europe and Manchester United has recently dominated that league to an extent matched by only two other clubs in those leagues, Barcelona and (I think?) Bayern Munich. So, again, what he said was factually correct.
Domestic league aside, our record in the CL over the last decade is also second to none. Well, second to one i.e. Barcelona.
I don't understand why United fans are so reluctant to appreciate what a fantastic club this is. It's a member of a very small, very exclusive, club of modern European footballing heavyweights. Facht.
I think that with English players and young British youth products being at Mufc is probably enough. We aren't that important to continentals though.
If he wants to play hardball and hold the club to ransom then he should go. There is no way he should even be thinking about big wages at this stage of his career as he has done nothing of note to earn it. He should earn the same amount as any other highly talented player on the verge of first team football earns and no more. The great thing about United is we reward players who are both commited to the club and perform to a high and consistent level.
Look at the likes of Nani who looks like he is soon to be offered a new contract as well as Hernandez who hot offered a revised deal after his impressive first season. This should act as a benchmark for Pogba, inspiration to show how his career could pan out should he perform for the club. Good wages should be a consequence of achievement and not a pre requisite of it
Id much rather have a player who had incentive to continue progressing over one who would feel they had made the grade at an early age due to receiving massive, unwarranted salaries.
If Pogba is worried about first team football then I suggest he has more faith in his ability. Sir Alex doesn't put players in and around the first team unless he feels they have a great chance of making it here, and Pogba has had a lot of time around the first team recently which bodes well for him.
If we lose him then so be it. We lost the likes of Pique and Rossi, two outstanding prospects every bit as good as Pogba. Do I miss them? No not really, they both have done well but equally we have brought in players who have performed at a similar level to those two in the likes of Jones, Smalling, Hernandez and Welbeck. Of course I wish them the best but we evolve and move on generally for the better. If Pogba leaves we have other players waiting to make the first team like Petrucci and Tunnicliffe.
Look at the likes of Nani who looks like he is soon to be offered a new contract as well as Hernandez who hot offered a revised deal after his impressive first season. This should act as a benchmark for Pogba, inspiration to show how his career could pan out should he perform for the club. Good wages should be a consequence of achievement and not a pre requisite of it
Id much rather have a player who had incentive to continue progressing over one who would feel they had made the grade at an early age due to receiving massive, unwarranted salaries.
If Pogba is worried about first team football then I suggest he has more faith in his ability. Sir Alex doesn't put players in and around the first team unless he feels they have a great chance of making it here, and Pogba has had a lot of time around the first team recently which bodes well for him.
If we lose him then so be it. We lost the likes of Pique and Rossi, two outstanding prospects every bit as good as Pogba. Do I miss them? No not really, they both have done well but equally we have brought in players who have performed at a similar level to those two in the likes of Jones, Smalling, Hernandez and Welbeck. Of course I wish them the best but we evolve and move on generally for the better. If Pogba leaves we have other players waiting to make the first team like Petrucci and Tunnicliffe.
Agreed. We've developed our share of young footballers from the continent over the years but it will always be trickier holding on to footballers from abroad. All the more so when they have agents whoring them round to the highest bidder after barely 20 minutes first-team football.
I think Juve are probably the equivalent of United in Italy, a very prestigious team. I think though United do have a philosophy of giving young players a chance which I feel Italian teams do not generally. If his agent has really got something concrete from them, then it is market price discovery and United's offer should be in the same ball park. If they are not paying the market rate then Pogba is within his rights to sign with Juve. Age has nothing to do with it really, Juve can see what he is capable of and offered terms based on that.
feck me!
"even if I was a life long United fan I'd be having myself a good ponder."
And Richio concurs?
Hand on heart I'm a simple man, as a 'life long United fan' I wouldn't require the club to move the earth for me to play here.
I dunno about playing for free (if it was an ultimatum perhaps) but I wouldn't need tons of cash.
20k is being looked down upon but you think if United told me you'll get 20k forever but the chance to become a legend of Giggs/Scholes proportions I wouldn't take it?
I'd break Fergie's wrist trying to grab the pen!
I've no idea what's happening, but this seems to be the scenario people have decided is happening...and have decided to lay into Paul Pogba for, based on some idealistic view that playing for Manchester United should trump all other variables even if they wait until the last minute and then offer you peanuts.
feck them, I'd be out the door.
It's not as factually correct as you say though. Inter had a bit of recent success. So have Chelsea, bar a CL win. Then there are teams like Milan who consider themselves more successful than us. Especially in Europe.
And I never said we're not a great team. It's just that we're not the ONLY team and we're not on some moral high ground looking down on everyone too. Or at least we shouldn't be.
Two completely different situations ffs
Nobody has ever said we're the only team and we look down at others and so on, but it has to be said there is no higher team you can play for, There are players the world over working their balls off to get to sign for someone like Manchester United, that to be offered a position within the club where they will develop you and make you rich whilst really competing for a prolonged period rather than a flash in the pan team thats hit good fortunes. Then when that team offers a kid they hold in high regards and he ponders it over joining another club well that alone should be answer enough.
Agreed, and hence Pogba isn't asking for the 55K that Jones got but all he is asking for is to match offers he is getting from other top clubs like Juventus.
Can you sense the irony in your own post?
Not as much as United. Compare their domestic league/CL record over the last 5-10 years and compare. They're not even close. Which was his/my point.
Which we will probably do and surpass once he becomes a regular.
How do you know that's what he's asking?
Seriously there's no guarantee that he stays here, even if match Juve's offer. Too many assumptions in your post.
It's of course opinion, and IMO its all come down to either money or first team opportunities. And since United are willing to offer him a contract that means they believe in him as a player and are thus willing to offer him first team opportunities. And since Pogba still hasn't signed the contract means he isn't happy with the financial side of the offer. This of course is confirmed by most of the reports in the papers on the matter.
If we believe in his talent and are willing to offer him his demands eventually why delay it and risk losing his talent.
I know it's a matter of principle for Sir Alex and he doesn't want the club to get bullied by young unestablished players and their agents and I respect it. But if a player has the talent some exceptions can and should be made. And the cost of replacing him would anyways be more than his current demands if he leaves for free.
Mirror reporter and Manchester United fan Laurie Hanna tweeting that Pogba, Rooney, Rio and Clev are in squad for Norwich.
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