What sort of nonsense is that? Guardiola won 2 Champions League titles in 4 years, how does Fergie winning CWC with Aberdeen outweigh that? Is Juande Ramos also superior to Guardiola for winning UEFA Cup with Sevilla?
Pep Guardiola's Bayern
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What sort of nonsense is that? Guardiola won 2 Champions League titles in 4 years, how does Fergie winning CWC with Aberdeen outweigh that? Is Juande Ramos also superior to Guardiola for winning UEFA Cup with Sevilla?
Fergie's CWC and European Supercup win with Aberdeen was certainly the equivalent of a CL win in terms of how difficult an achievement it was. They beat Bayern Munich, Real Madrid and European champions Hamburg amongst others to get those trophies, whilst handing out several thrashings to weaker opponents. And obviously Fergie did that with a much less capable set of players than Guardiola won his CLs with. I'm not saying Sweet Square's right, but his point isn't unreasonable.
This part is what make me think that he is the best, he makes his players cleverer.
The red card was the product of the absurd high line that Bayern have used under pep which led to aguero being freed up. Watch the 1st leg vs madrid last season and you'll see how many times they were able to expose it. This will not be an isolated incident once bayern faces better teams.
Jupp, van gaal, whoever it was, the base of this team isn't pep's which is my point. He's not improved the team at all. These improvements some speak about are dream world stuff. Honestly I've never thought the 11 team was better than the 09 team but that's a discussion for another day.
How am I seeing the worst in pep? I've acknowledged he's a great coach and that he created one of the greatest teams of the modern era.
That explains a lot to be honest.
Yeah I don't see any argument for the 2011 team being inferior. I mean, the 2009 won the domestic cup which the 2011 failed at but over the entire season I've never seen any team dominate like the later Barcelona side.
One is the bread (Bundesliga) and the other one the cake (CL). Or the difference between Hamburger and Pizza or a great dinner in a big restaurant...
Third or fourth, it doesn't matter - the fact is that they finished way below the capabilities of those great players. I never said they didn't have amazing players, I said that those players you listed never showed their true potential before Guardiola came in and you can't deny that. Also, Rijkaard is the answer? The guy won everything with Barcelona including the CL. He wasn't the best manager, but he was certainly good. Guardiola made really drastic changes to that Barcelona side that made them the beast that they became. He changed their system into a more pressing tiki-taka than ever before. If you think that the Barcelona side before Pep would have been the same amazing team it was without him, then you're sorely mistaken.
So I don't understand? What do you mean? What is the difference between taking Juventus and taking Bayern? Nothing. He would still dominate the league and win the Copa Italia and the only front that would be a challenge will be the CL.
First, as I said, Mourinho didn't have any challenge on the domestic front. He had the money, the other teams had their financial problems so it wasn't any challenge to win the Italian league or the Copa Italia with them. The CL? The CL win came from quite a bit of luck. They were dominated in most of their matches, but managed to scrape through - typical Jose Mourinho side.
The resident Barca fans here say an entirely different story - that the title won by Tito was boosted a great deal by Messi's amazing performances until his injury and it was a single-handedly won. Also, Tito was very close to Pep so he used the same "philosophy" and who knows? Maybe Tito could have become one of the greatest. We won the title with 11 points and got kicked out by Madrid because of a stupid referee decision, we dominated them otherwise. I don't know what you're talking about - we were a great team that needed some boosting. Nobody here is comparing the team to Jupp Heynckes's one, but to deny that we were a strong team ridiculous.
Barca B shouldn't be discounted in any way. if you read what he had to deal with and what he did with them, you'll be very surprised. Also, Bayern dominated Real in the first leg at Munich, but couldn't capitalize. Then in the second leg everything crashed down because of Tito's death, etc and Bayern got dominated in turn. Things like this happen in football - no matter how good a team is, some day it will get destroyed by another for various reasons. City beat us 6-1 under Fergie... Is Mancini a better manager than Fergie? Barca beat Real 5-1, is Guardiola a better manager than Mourinho?
And another thing - if that Barca side is so great, than why aren't they showing anything that they showed under Pep? They even have players like Neymar and Suarez - two of the best players in the world at the moment, and they are doing jack sh*t. You're discrediting everything Pep has done and glorifying everything that Mourinho has done.
You just dont have any clue about bayern, so you judge their performance/tactics/style based on few CL games. You really dont seem to know how they played/performed under each manager. Most of what you say is just wrong ("pep didnt really change anything"), out of context or hard to debate against ("its all about creating a team, staying on top is easy").
I am not arguing against your conclusion but against your assumptions and how you come to this conclusion.
At least I'm not the only one who doesn't believe he actually watches the team play on a regular basis. Instead he's just making stuff up based on a few selective results that suit his agenda.
Just look at the threads in this forum. Sure, Bayern players are good, but in any given thread on this forum I can point to 50% of the posts saying english players are better for one or the other reason. I'm not saying what you say is completely wrong, it isn't. You have good points. I'm just not convinced that Bayern doesn't present him with the opportunity to "prove himself", whatever that means... after Barcelona I don't think he has anything to prove. And saying taking over a triple winner is the easy way out is unfair, admit it. You know that even good teams need constant refining. How easy it is to botch a team up is something that can be witnessed at Dortmund right now. And everyone, not just Klopp, is puzzled by it and cannot find an explanation for the sudden downfall. Even if you acknowledge that Lewandowski's transfer to Bayern was a heavy blow.
I think while you have good points, you're making it a bit easy for yourself in that aspect of the debate. Don't dismiss Bayern as an easy challenge, it's not right.
Edit: Also, I'd like to point out... how many years do you have to coach a team until people stop claiming it's not "your team" and that you're not responsible for current triumphs? The more time flies by, the sillier that particular argument becomes... no offense, but van Gaal is what, 4 years ago? Saying his influence is still the basis for this team is not far off from saying Robben's youth trainer of some province club in the Netherlands is responsible for the triple win of Bayern. It's true, in an absolute sense, but it's a silly idea when talking about Pep's accomplishments.
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I disagree with that notion but you may see it as semantics. I was talking about stardom when I mentioned Alonso. Bayern is shunning "stars", because they cost more than they're worth if you can have Riberys and Robbens for half the money at the same performance. I didn't mean that Alonso is technically better than any other Bayern player on the pitch. But when we're talking about a coach "proving" himself, it is a bit of a subjective opinion. And the "star factor" comes into play here. So if Pep had gone to Madrid or back to Barcelona with Neymar now on the squad, he'd have even less of an opportunity to prove himself, right?
As I said... it is probably semantics.
Arjen's dive practice
First part of a mid-season racap interview with Matthias Sammer:
http://www.fcbayern.de/en/news/news/2014/interview-matthias-sammer-part-1-271214.php
What I found most interesting:
"Holger Badstuber has made a lot of progress, and I think he’ll resume team training in early January. David Alaba might need a few more days, but he’ll be back in the thick of it in the course of the training camp. I think the situation’s the same with Tom Starke. The timeline with regard to Philipp Lahm is that he could be back by mid to late-February. As for Javi Martínez and Thiago, I’m not going to offer an opinion. We’ll give them all the time in the world, because all that matters is getting them fit again."
Glad to hear Badstuber and Alaba will be back soon. Lets hope the former can finally stay fit again. What worries me a little is the part about Thiago. I'm starting to fear that he might not come back this season at all. The original german also didn't say that Thiago und Martinez need to get "fit" again, but "healthy". Maybe I'm reading to much into it.
http://www.fcbayern.de/en/news/news/2014/interview-matthias-sammer-part-1-271214.php
What I found most interesting:
"Holger Badstuber has made a lot of progress, and I think he’ll resume team training in early January. David Alaba might need a few more days, but he’ll be back in the thick of it in the course of the training camp. I think the situation’s the same with Tom Starke. The timeline with regard to Philipp Lahm is that he could be back by mid to late-February. As for Javi Martínez and Thiago, I’m not going to offer an opinion. We’ll give them all the time in the world, because all that matters is getting them fit again."
Glad to hear Badstuber and Alaba will be back soon. Lets hope the former can finally stay fit again. What worries me a little is the part about Thiago. I'm starting to fear that he might not come back this season at all. The original german also didn't say that Thiago und Martinez need to get "fit" again, but "healthy". Maybe I'm reading to much into it.
I just think that with Thiago they take all time it needs after that injury story. It was his first team training when he injured himself again. I actually do not care when he comes back - as long he somewhen can come back healthy.
Winning 2nd rate european trophies is similar to win the biggest of them all? No.
In those days these competitions had some weight but not soo much. And yes, he beat some great teams but many coaches had 1 or 2 great cup runs with "smaller" teams.
And Scottish football was doing miles better in comparison to the big leagues then today.
I, for one, heard of those runs but Pep CL runs are MUCH MUCH bigger in the football world in terms of fan talk, fame and so on. Most people dont even know about the fact that Ferguson beat Bayern and so on in those cups.
You cant compare that to the Barca CL teams who are talked about as the greatest ever!
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Why don't we let the master talk about it...
That is an interview with van Gaal from about 9 months ago. In the interview he says that he has a little part in the Bayern success, too. It is always the players and the coaches who do it. And he told that Heynckes mainly had the same idea and way to let the team play. But now Guardiola has changed the way of play and that we can see now that that functions great, too.
The current Bayern team gained a lot from Louis and Jupp. They laid foundations, you can say that.
That doesnt take away anything from Pep who had to integrate new players, his special ideas(much higher defense line for example and so on).
Im happy that my guys had 3 of the best trainers of the last 20 years in a few seasons, teaching them. You just can get better this way.
That doesnt take away anything from Pep who had to integrate new players, his special ideas(much higher defense line for example and so on).
Im happy that my guys had 3 of the best trainers of the last 20 years in a few seasons, teaching them. You just can get better this way.
Guardiola makes his players cleverer but Sir Alex can also improve them Cleverley.
I agree. Thiago's career isn't hanging in the balance yet but another serious knee injury and it's hard to see him recover. If giving him an extra few months of is what he needs to get over his injury trauma then it should be given.
Its really hard for me as a Bayernfan. With all our great players you just feel and saw that he is something special. He and Götze at their best was someting to marvel it.
REALLY hope that he comes back. We have the best medical people in the world so.
He deserves a great career.
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At their best, I'd prefer to watch Thiago. He's more fun to watch.
Thiago really is something else. See Götze as the next big thing after Messi and Ronaldo but there were periods when I had to agree with you.
He was the best man on the pitch and just stood out among a group of great players.
It is down to a personal choice. What I like about Thiago is how he could pull off an amazing trick, pass, control while being a very efficient player. It's a shame that great players like him (and Gundogan too even if he is a different footballer) just cannot keep being fit. Too many average players with ridiculous fitness levels play.
He is very efficient while being amazing to watch, true. He can be a showman but I never got the feeling that he took it too far. But he clearly loves to play great footy, show his tricks and so on.
Gündogan is a bit more straight forward for me.
Yeah, lets hope that both have some luck for the next years.
According to Bild we will buy Joshua Kimmich from Stuttgart. He will come in the summer.
DM is his main position.
He played for RB Leipzig since the summer of 2013 on loan.
19, played in the 3rd division in 2013/14 and in the 2nd this season. Started most of his games since late of 2013. Won the U19 euros with Germany this year and was praised and talked about as a great talent.
Didnt see that one coming at all but I will take it. Pep and Sammer will see great things in him.
P.S. Forgot Reschke, our new guy from Leverkusen. He was the main man for the smart Bayer transfers. Love it!
DM is his main position.
He played for RB Leipzig since the summer of 2013 on loan.
19, played in the 3rd division in 2013/14 and in the 2nd this season. Started most of his games since late of 2013. Won the U19 euros with Germany this year and was praised and talked about as a great talent.
Didnt see that one coming at all but I will take it. Pep and Sammer will see great things in him.
P.S. Forgot Reschke, our new guy from Leverkusen. He was the main man for the smart Bayer transfers. Love it!
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Excellent, he's a fantastic talent. and I always hoped someone would turn him into a rightback. A lot about him reminds me of Phillip Lahm and I really hope he's the longterm rightback solution for the nationalteam. Maybe with all the quality in midfield in our team, that's actually an option.
Sammer and Reschke are a great duo I feel. They know German football inside out and want German talent for our future. Great!
Dont know him that much. Thanks for the info @Balu.
bayern already confirmed that he´ll join us next summer.
When you see the deal they really meant it. VfB sold Kimmich with a buy-back-clause (750.000 EUR) and drew that now. And Bayern bought him for 7 million EUR and gave him a 5-year-contract. Usually the first contracts never were about such a long period. Gaudino got a long contract, too. Another one for the Gaudino-Kurt-Scholl training group. Odegaard next?
An analyzing of the playstyle
http://spielverlagerung.com/2014/12...ampaign=Juego+de+Posición+under+Pep+Guardiola
http://spielverlagerung.com/2014/12...ampaign=Juego+de+Posición+under+Pep+Guardiola
Has to be the plan. Pep loves his midfielders, but not even he can plan to play 10 and a goalie.
For some reason he completely slipped past me (since I can't be bothered about the VfB anymore) and when I watched U-nationalteam performances in 2014 it was mostly Stendera in midfield that stood out to me. Can you tell me/us more about his strengths, weaknesses etc.? Comparable to Rode maybe?
Thanks for sharing, nice read.
Great read. Thanks for the share man.
Did we already have this quote of Pep?
When Schweinsteiger starts looking at Guardiola without passion, I will start a "Welcome Pep to Old Trafford" thread.
When Schweinsteiger starts looking at Guardiola without passion, I will start a "Welcome Pep to Old Trafford" thread.
Did we already have this quote of Pep?
When Schweinsteiger starts looking at Guardiola without passion, I will start a "Welcome Pep to Old Trafford" thread.
Hmmmm....weren't there rumours of Pep's sexual orientation? That dressing room ought to be fun. *joking*
Would love him here after LvG.
Hmmmm....weren't there rumours of Pep's sexual orientation? That dressing room ought to be fun. *joking*
Would love him here after LvG.
He'll see plenty of passion in the eyes of Mata, De Gea and Herrera.
And much less in the eyes of Fellaini, Valencia and Jones
Höjberg loaned to Augsburg for half a year.
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