[Djemba-Djemba]

The "hate" for Philip Jones is strong on the Caf for some reason. I dont get it either. He has been quite decent since OGS took over as well.
I have repeatedly argued for that he should be given a new contract, an opinion that draws even more hate for some reason even if one tries to put forward some quite logical arguments.
I am not going to repeat myself other than by saying that I am pretty convinced that Jones will be awarded a new contract on about 100k a week.
If nothing else it would be financial stupidity not to do so. Regardless of one sees him as a part of the squad long term or not. By putting him on that kind of contract he would instantly be worth 30-40m on the transfer market again and we would actually "make" money on such a deal.
The actual wage cost on those terms would be much lower than that if we would decide to transfer him whenever in the next couple of years.
There are a lot of other arguments as well for giving him a new contract and to keep him around at least for next season, but again: I will not repeat myself too much in this thread.

Giving Phil Jones a new contract would be absolute madness.

He's an injury prone average centre back who is capable of appalling mistakes.

He's also been here for almost 8 years, he's had more than enough time to establish himself and he hasn't. It's time to move him on.

 

[stevoc]

Phil Jones gets one or two less points just for being Phil Jones. I mean Jones was comprehensively, visually and statistically better than Lindelof against Cardiff yet his average rating here was the second lowest of all our players, and was far lower than that of the latter. That game encapsulated the relationship between Jones, Redcafe and Man Utd fans.
I think in the case of Lindelof, it is just people getting too excited and going overboard about a defender that isn't named Phil Jones or Smalling not playing badly. I bet the sentiments will be different, and the performances will probably be analysed in a different way if Jones was giving the exact performances Lindelof has been giving us so far. The only game I'd say Lindelof really outperformed Jones under Ole was against Newcastle.

So because the consensus rating of Phil Jones vs Cardiff on Redcafe was lower than you personally rated him in those matches, the majority of Redcafe must be biased.

Have you considered that maybe it's not the majority that are underrating his performances, but some possibly including yourself overrating some of his performances?

Both are possibilities of course, i'm not a betting man but i know which one i would bet on being the more likely if i had to. There was only a 0.7 difference in the Caf's ratings between Jones and Lindelof, so most rated their performances fairly similar. Jones was only 2nd lowest because it was such a good team performance that every player got good ratings.

 

[stevoc]

The "hate" for Philip Jones is strong on the Caf for some reason. I dont get it either. He has been quite decent since OGS took over as well.
I have repeatedly argued for that he should be given a new contract, an opinion that draws even more hate for some reason even if one tries to put forward some quite logical arguments.
I am not going to repeat myself other than by saying that I am pretty convinced that Jones will be awarded a new contract on about 100k a week.
If nothing else it would be financial stupidity not to do so. Regardless of one sees him as a part of the squad long term or not. By putting him on that kind of contract he would instantly be worth 30-40m on the transfer market again and we would actually "make" money on such a deal.
The actual wage cost on those terms would be much lower than that if we would decide to transfer him whenever in the next couple of years.
There are a lot of other arguments as well for giving him a new contract and to keep him around at least for next season, but again: I will not repeat myself too much in this thread.

Only if a club is willing to pay £30-40m for him, lots of people on here thought Darmian was worth £25-30m also. And even the club evidently thought along similar lines, but in reality no club was willing to pay those sorts of fees for him. So he's still here taking up squad space and being paid £3-4m per year, money down the drain.

You run the risk of the same thing happening with Jones if you extend his contract. I have no doubt we could get some sort of fee for Jones but it would be closer to £10-15m in my opinion.

 

[Johan07]

Only if a club is willing to pay £30-40m for him, lots of people on here thought Darmian was worth £30-40m also. And even the club evidently thought along similar lines, but in reality no club was willing to pay those sorts of fees for him. So he's still here taking up squad space and being paid £4-5m per year, money down the drain.

You run the risk of the same thing happening with Jones if you extend his contract. I have no doubt we could get some sort of fee for Jones but it would be closer to £10-15m in my opinion.

I do not think anyone thought Darmian was worth 30-40m coming to the end of his contract.
The asset value of a player is (except for his skill of course) mostly decided by his age, wage and the length of contract.
A Phil Jones in the first year of say a four year-contract on 100k is easily worth 30-40m; a Phil Jones or Darmian in the last year of his contract is not.

 

[AndyJ1985]

Everyone on here collectively acknowledges that our defence is shit, and yet when anybody criticises individuals in that defence for being shit, there are always people who jump to their defence to label them a useful option to have. So which is it? Are all our defenders useful to have, in which case our defence must be fine as it is, or is our defence shit? Can't have it both ways. If we have a poor defence then it stands to reason we must have poor defenders that need binning off.

 

[Alemar]

Talking about Phil Jones in particular, one needs to have in mind the following: statistically he is perhaps the least likely person to score a goal (he didnt score how many years, 5 already? and it's actually a good thing if a central defender could score 2-3 goals a season at least), at the same time the most likely person to score an own goal or concede a penalty. This is just statistics over the years - on top of his current (obviously quite poor) form.

 

[Djemba-Djemba]

Everyone on here collectively acknowledges that our defence is shit, and yet when anybody criticises individuals in that defence for being shit, there are always people who jump to their defence to label them a useful option to have. So which is it? Are all our defenders useful to have, in which case our defence must be fine as it is, or is our defence shit? Can't have it both ways. If we have a poor defence then it stands to reason we must have poor defenders that need binning off.

Redcafe has taught me that every player in the squad will have at least a couple of people defending them no matter what.

No matter how poorly they play you'll get excuses made for them. Same thing with managers, we still had Moyes and Mourinho and Van Gaal defenders right to the bitter end.

Maybe only like Tyler Blackett or Donald Love had zero support.

 

[Johan07]

Everyone on here collectively acknowledges that our defence is shit, and yet when anybody criticises individuals in that defence for being shit, there are always people who jump to their defence to label them a useful option to have. So which is it? Are all our defenders useful to have, in which case our defence must be fine as it is, or is our defence shit? Can't have it both ways. If we have a poor defence then it stands to reason we must have poor defenders that need binning off.

I find it funny when people here think they speak for the entire Caf: "Everyone here collectively acknowledges that our defence is shit". I certainly do not. We could absolutely need a top class CB in this summer. It would make us better. Does not mean that we were "shit" to begin with.
Its even more funny when you take that collective straw man argument to make some weird argument that either our defence has to be shit or it has to be fine. What does this even mean?
IMO Jones is an excellent homegrown relatively cheap squad player.

 

[George Owen]

Everyone on here collectively acknowledges that our defence is shit, and yet when anybody criticises individuals in that defence for being shit, there are always people who jump to their defence to label them a useful option to have. So which is it? Are all our defenders useful to have, in which case our defence must be fine as it is, or is our defence shit? Can't have it both ways. If we have a poor defence then it stands to reason we must have poor defenders that need binning off.

We've had the 2nd best defence in the last 2 premier league seasons.

Before buying more CB, we maybe need better fullbacks and a better version of Matic first. Maybe then, our defence will look even better.

 

[steakpie]

Jones is a liability, on the field and also his injury record is atrocious.

I hope this is his final season at United.

 

[red4ever 79]

Phil Jones the enigma. The only player in memory with 8 years at the club and the jury is still out. Injury prone, mistake ridden that's our Phil Jones. Still, seems to be Manchester United have become a charity as of late and no doubt Jones will have a contract renewal. We go again next season. Smalling Jones, Rojo etc

 

[Foxbatt]

Exactly. Jones is rated better in Spurs game than Lindelof?! Bloody hell

It has been posted here that in whoscored Lukaku was not dispossessed. If so it is wrong. Toby took the ball away from him. Maybe Lukaku passed it to him?

 

[Mcking]

So because the consensus rating of Phil Jones vs Cardiff on Redcafe was lower than you personally rated him in those matches, the majority of Redcafe must be biased.

Have you considered that maybe it's not the majority that are underrating his performances, but some possibly including yourself overrating some of his performances?

Both are possibilities of course, i'm not a betting man but i know which one i would bet on being the more likely if i had to. There was only a 0.7 difference in the Caf's ratings between Jones and Lindelof, so most rated their performances fairly similar. Jones was only 2nd lowest because it was such a good team performance that every player got good ratings.

I don't care, and it doesn't matter how low or high Jones' average rating was after the Cardiff game - be it 5, 6, 7, 8 or 9, it does not matter and rightly so. I didn't even rate the players after that game tbh. How did you come to the conclusion that I am overrating him when I haven't even said anything about how I'd have rated him after that game or any other game for that matter?
What I could care less about though, and what I'd say absolutely matters is that Jones got an average rating 0.7 less than that of Lindelof for a performance that I'd consider vastly better than that of the latter.
So a whole 0.7 less points for a vastly superior performance. Shows everything tbh.

 

[Mcking]

It has been posted here that in whoscored Lukaku was not dispossessed. If so it is wrong. Toby took the ball away from him. Maybe Lukaku passed it to him?

Did Lukaku attempt to take him on?

 

[Foxbatt]

Did Lukaku attempt to take him on?

It was a 1v1 situation. Yes all Lukaku needed was to stop and pass it to Rashford who had sprinted from left back position to get into the Spurs box. Lukaku was at left wing position and Toby just took it away from him. To give credit to Lukaku he out sprinted Toby very well but when he got to the ball is where he lost it. To add to it, when he lost the ball Rashford sprinted back to his left back position while Lukaku only walked back.

 

[Mcking]

Did Lukaku attempt to take him on?

It was a 1v1 situation. Yes all Lukaku needed was to stop and pass it to Rashford who had sprinted from left back position to get into the Spurs box. Lukaku was at left wing position and Toby just took it away from him. To give credit to Lukaku he out sprinted Toby very well but when he got to the ball is where he lost it. To add to it, when he lost the ball Rashford sprinted back to his left back position while Lukaku only walked back.

If Lukaku attempted to take him on, then he wasn't dispossesed in a statistical sense. It was an unsuccessful dribble at most.

 

[stevoc]

I do not think anyone thought Darmian was worth 30-40m coming to the end of his contract.

The Darmian valuation was a mistype i had already edited. But there were definitely people on here who thought he would go for £25m+ last summer.

The asset value of a player is (except for his skill of course) mostly decided by his age, wage and the length of contract.
A Phil Jones in the first year of say a four year-contract on 100k is easily worth 30-40m; a Phil Jones or Darmian in the last year of his contract is not.

I disagree mate, something in this case a footballer is only worth what another party is willing to pay for it at the time you are looking to sell it. United might and likely will activate the extra year i believe they have on Jones contract.

But the Club would be absolutely mental to give any player with his injury record another 4 year deal at 27 worth £100k per week.

 

[AndyJ1985]

I do not think anyone thought Darmian was worth 30-40m coming to the end of his contract.
The asset value of a player is (except for his skill of course) mostly decided by his age, wage and the length of contract.
A Phil Jones in the first year of say a four year-contract on 100k is easily worth 30-40m; a Phil Jones or Darmian in the last year of his contract is not.

See I keep seeing these stupid valuations for our deadwood banded about, yet we constantly struggle to sell our deadwood. Hmm, wonder why

 

[Desert Eagle]

Thanks for the service but really hope i never have to see him.start a game for United again. He would be a good player for West Ham or some team on that level.

 

[Doracle]

I find it funny when people here think they speak for the entire Caf: "Everyone here collectively acknowledges that our defence is shit". I certainly do not. We could absolutely need a top class CB in this summer. It would make us better. Does not mean that we were "shit" to begin with.
Its even more funny when you take that collective straw man argument to make some weird argument that either our defence has to be shit or it has to be fine. What does this even mean?
IMO Jones is an excellent homegrown relatively cheap squad player.

Agree with most of this. Our defence could be improved but is perfectly passable to make top 4. Since Jose left, who’d managed to complete destroy the confidence of most of our team, we’ve conceded 3 goals in 5 league matches, one of which was our CF giving away a penalty and one of which was a late consolation when we were 3-0 up.

Jones is currently one of our lowest paid players so, unless he is after a ridiculous increase in wages, I’d certainly see no downside in giving him a 2+1 deal.

 

[Johan07]

See I keep seeing these stupid valuations for our deadwood banded about, yet we constantly struggle to sell our deadwood. Hmm, wonder why

Maybe because the club realises that they are not "deadwood".
I have touched on this in other threads: our major problem at the moment is not getting rid of our "deadwood"; meaning players like Jones, Rojo, Darmian, Young or even Mc Tominay or Pereira; who are the players people usually refer to when using that disrespectful term.
They are still at the club because of the fact that they are cheap = on low wages; in relation to what the minutes they will contribute over a season.
We already have the largest wagebill in the PL. That is our major problem.
Its bordering on stupidity to think that we can replace those six players with Koulibaly, De Ligt, De Jong, Alex Sandro and Dembele and maybe promote Tuanzebe. As well as putting De Gea on 350k or something and giving Herrera a new contract.
Its not possible.
We should not be discussing whether or not to give Jones a new contract on relatively low wages. He is value for that small cost considering what he will be expected to contribute.
Focus should be on who and how many from De Gea/Matic/Lukaku/Mata/Sanchez/Fellaini needs to go this summer. Because if if we keep all of them there will be NO room for any new acquisitions wage-wise.
Jones is a cheap alternative to keep around as a squad-player.

 

[AR87]

Jones arguably did more than anybody on Sunday to improve our odds of getting into top-4 if the Kane news is true.

 

[AndyJ1985]

Maybe because the club realises that they are not "deadwood".
I have touched on this in other threads: our major problem at the moment is not getting rid of our "deadwood"; meaning players like Jones, Rojo, Darmian, Young or even Mc Tominay or Pereira; who are the players people usually refer to when using that disrespectful term.
They are still at the club because of the fact that they are cheap = on low wages; in relation to what the minutes they will contribute over a season.
We already have the largest wagebill in the PL. Its bordering on stupidity to think that we can replace those six players with Koulibaly, De Ligt, De Jong, Alex Sandro and Dembele and maybe promote Tuanzebe. As well as putting De Gea on 350k or something and giving Herrera a new contract.
Its not possible.
We should not be discussing whether or not to give Jones a new contract on relatively low wages. He is value for that small cost considering what he will be expected to contribute.
Focus should be on who and how many from De Gea/Matic/Lukaku/Mata/Sanchez/Fellaini needs to go this summer. Because if if we keep all there will be NO room for any new acquisitions wage-wise.
Jones is a cheap alternative to keep around as a squad-player.

Sorry but Phil Jones is a shit footballer and we've endured 8 years of his shitness and hearing how if he could stay fit he'd be a great defender. No, he wouldn't be, he'd be a shit defender who didn't have an appalling injury record, as opposed to a shit defender with an appalling injury record, as he is now. I wouldn't keep him if he offered to play for free. While he is on the field he's taking up a place in the team, a place that should be occupied by a far superior defender. The same applies when he's taking up a place on the bench. While we have the attitude that it's okay to have shit players as squad players because they put in a shift, we're not going to be contenders for the major trophies, because guess what, squad players still need to be good footballers to play for Manchester United.

 

[Johan07]

Sorry but Phil Jones is a shit footballer and we've endured 8 years of his shitness and hearing how if he could stay fit he'd be a great defender. No, he wouldn't be, he'd be a shit defender who didn't have an appalling injury record, as opposed to a shit defender with an appalling injury record, as he is now. I wouldn't keep him if he offered to play for free. While he is on the field he's taking up a place in the team, a place that should be occupied by a far superior defender. The same applies when he's taking up a place on the bench. While we have the attitude that it's okay to have shit players as squad players because they put in a shift, we're not going to be contenders for the major trophies, because guess what, squad players still need to be good footballers to play for Manchester United.

I stopped counting after two "shits". Good argument and a really eloquent post. Now carry on.

 

[laughtersassassin]

Phil Jones the enigma. The only player in memory with 8 years at the club and the jury is still out. Injury prone, mistake ridden that's our Phil Jones. Still, seems to be Manchester United have become a charity as of late and no doubt Jones will have a contract renewal. We go again next season. Smalling Jones, Rojo etc

Only smalling should be kept out of those 3 and even he should be a 3rd or 4th choice player at best. Crazy to me we didn't have a center back lined up for Jan from the summer. Would be confident of top 4 if we had someone to play with Lindelof.

 

[Schneckerl]

Whoscored ratings since Ole arrival:

Spurs - 7.1/6.9
Newcastle - 7.5/7.8
Huddersfield - 7.5/6.8
Cardiff - 7.8/7.0

So Jones 7.5 and Lindelof 7.1

Redcafe average ratings:

Spurs - 6.2/7.7
Newcastle - 5.8/7.7
Huddersfield - 6.7/6.9
Cardiff - 6.9/7.6

So Jones 6.4 and Lindelof 7.5

Personally, I’d say they’ve performed fairly similarly, with Jones having the slight edge overall. I think a lot of people on here have already made their minds up about Jones and he probably gets downgraded by about a point per match as a result.

I don't think stats work that well for defenders to be honest. I doubt there is a decent metric to take chances prevented due to positioning into account.

That said from the 'neutral' sources I've seen Jones and Lindelöf recieved fairly similar ratings. Are supporters paying closer attention? They probably do. However hard to deny that Jones isn't really popular on here.

 

[stevoc]

I don't care, and it doesn't matter how low or high Jones' average rating was after the Cardiff game - be it 5, 6, 7, 8 or 9, it does not matter and rightly so. I didn't even rate the players after that game tbh. How did you come to the conclusion that I am overrating him when I haven't even said anything about how I'd have rated him after that game or any other game for that matter?

From your last post mate, you basically said he was better than Lindelof in every aspect. And you disagreed that Jones should have been rated lower than Lindelof, so i obviously assumed you think he should have been rated at least 7.7 or higher, since Lindelof got a 7.6.

Thats why i was posing the question to you whether you had considered maybe it's you who are overrating his performances and not the majority of other fans on here who are underrating him.

Phil Jones gets one or two less points just for being Phil Jones. I mean Jones was comprehensively, visually and statistically better than Lindelof against Cardiff yet his average rating here was the second lowest of all our players, and was far lower than that of the latter.

What I could care less about though, and what I'd say absolutely matters is that Jones got an average rating 0.7 less than that of Lindelof for a performance that I'd consider vastly better than that of the latter. So a whole 0.7 less points for a vastly superior performance. Shows everything tbh.

It shows that most people on here thought Lindelof was better in that game, theres a strong possibility they are right. Add to that the fact it's unlikely there is some forum wide biased conspiracy to artificially lower Phil Jones match day ratings.

Obviously there will always be some who give him a rating of 1 or 2 because of personal dislike. But i doubt theres enough to significantly lower his average score. But no doubt they would be cancelled out by the fanboys who give him an 8-10 every game as likely happens with lots of players. Very rarely if ever have i seen a match day rating on here thats stood out to me and i've thought to myself ''wow thats ridiculously low, most on here must be biased against that player''. The majority of members who regularly submit their player ratings are fairly objective i believe.

 

[icehole]

Jones arguably did more than anybody on Sunday to improve our odds of getting into top-4 if the Kane news is true.

Indeed this. If it works to our advantage he's earned a year extension.

 

[stevoc]

Maybe because the club realises that they are not "deadwood".
I have touched on this in other threads: our major problem at the moment is not getting rid of our "deadwood"; meaning players like Jones, Rojo, Darmian, Young or even Mc Tominay or Pereira; who are the players people usually refer to when using that disrespectful term.
They are still at the club because of the fact that they are cheap = on low wages; in relation to what the minutes they will contribute over a season.
We already have the largest wagebill in the PL. That is our major problem.
Its bordering on stupidity to think that we can replace those six players with Koulibaly, De Ligt, De Jong, Alex Sandro and Dembele and maybe promote Tuanzebe. As well as putting De Gea on 350k or something and giving Herrera a new contract.
Its not possible.
We should not be discussing whether or not to give Jones a new contract on relatively low wages. He is value for that small cost considering what he will be expected to contribute.
Focus should be on who and how many from De Gea/Matic/Lukaku/Mata/Sanchez/Fellaini needs to go this summer. Because if if we keep all of them there will be NO room for any new acquisitions wage-wise.
Jones is a cheap alternative to keep around as a squad-player.

United according to revenue are the richest club in the world, they also have i believe the lowest wage bill to turnover percentage in the Premier League at 45% so theres definitely scope in there for one or two more big signings.

I agree we could do with moving high earners like Sanchez, Mata and Fellaini on. But i disagree that we should keep the likes of Jones, Rojo and Darmian. Players like that should be first out the door, for what little they contribute either down to constant injuries and/or not being picked their roles in the squad could be covered by the likes of Tuanzebe and Fosu Mensah for a fraction of the cost.

 

[MadDogg]

Whoscored ratings since Ole arrival:

Spurs - 7.1/6.9
Newcastle - 7.5/7.8
Huddersfield - 7.5/6.8
Cardiff - 7.8/7.0

So Jones 7.5 and Lindelof 7.1

Redcafe average ratings:

Spurs - 6.2/7.7
Newcastle - 5.8/7.7
Huddersfield - 6.7/6.9
Cardiff - 6.9/7.6

So Jones 6.4 and Lindelof 7.5

Personally, I’d say they’ve performed fairly similarly, with Jones having the slight edge overall. I think a lot of people on here have already made their minds up about Jones and he probably gets downgraded by about a point per match as a result.

Interesting.

Against Cardiff they were very even, so I don't agree with either source there. I personally thought Lindelof shaded it, but either way their ratings should have been close. Jones was definitely better against Huddersfield - he had an excellent match (albeit as excellent as you can be in a match you dominate against the bottom team in the league). So I don't know how the cafe rated Lindelof better in that one. However I would say the Cafe ratings were fairly accurate in the Newcastle and Spurs games. Maybe Lindelof a little high against Spurs, but Jones is about right.

 

[Rozski]

Before buying more CB, we maybe need better fullbacks and a better version of Matic first. Maybe then, our defence will look even better.

I’m coming around more and more to this conclusion myself. Lindelof needs a better partner at some point for sure but I think Smalling and Jones are adequate and it would probably be cheaper and easier to improve the defensive players around them and possibly more effective for creating a solid defensive unit. Creating a solid defense is the goal and there’s more than one way to skin that cat.

 

[Adisa]

Boosted our chances of catching Spurs.

 

[TMDaines]

Phil Jones MBE.

 

[Wheato]

*NEWSFLASH*

Phil Jones has just been discovered wandering around Wembley stadium in the dark. Apparently he was still trying to find Harry Kane after losing him eleventy times last Sunday.

 

[ravelston]

So because the consensus rating of Phil Jones vs Cardiff on Redcafe was lower than you personally rated him in those matches, the majority of Redcafe must be biased.

Have you considered that maybe it's not the majority that are underrating his performances, but some possibly including yourself overrating some of his performances?

Both are possibilities of course, i'm not a betting man but i know which one i would bet on being the more likely if i had to. There was only a 0.7 difference in the Caf's ratings between Jones and Lindelof, so most rated their performances fairly similar. Jones was only 2nd lowest because it was such a good team performance that every player got good ratings.

To be fair, Jones had 18 defensive interventions (aerials won, tackles, interceptions clearances and blocks) against Cardiff compared to Lindelof's 5. He also had 58 passes with a 94.8% success rate compared to Lindelof's 47 at 76.6%. I know that statistics don't tell the whole story, but I'd be interested in your explanation of Lindelof's apparent superiority in the eyes of the Caf majority.

 

[finneh]

The "hate" for Philip Jones is strong on the Caf for some reason. I dont get it either. He has been quite decent since OGS took over as well.
I have repeatedly argued for that he should be given a new contract, an opinion that draws even more hate for some reason even if one tries to put forward some quite logical arguments.
I am not going to repeat myself other than by saying that I am pretty convinced that Jones will be awarded a new contract on about 100k a week.
If nothing else it would be financial stupidity not to do so. Regardless of one sees him as a part of the squad long term or not. By putting him on that kind of contract he would instantly be worth 30-40m on the transfer market again and we would actually "make" money on such a deal.
The actual wage cost on those terms would be much lower than that if we would decide to transfer him whenever in the next couple of years.
There are a lot of other arguments as well for giving him a new contract and to keep him around at least for next season, but again: I will not repeat myself too much in this thread.

There is no chance any team sanctions a £65m 5 year contract for Phil Jones as you imply (£25m salary and £40m fee).

That kind of transfer is outside of the scope of possibly all but 10-15 clubs in world football. It would be a record package for pretty much all clubs in England outside of the top 6 and the vast majority in Europe outside of the likes of PSG, Bayern, Madrid & Barcelona.

You're treating wages and transfer fees as if they're two separate and mutually exclusive negotiations. That's as far from the truth as can be. Anyone mad enough to spend £35-40m on Jones certainly wouldn't also be insane enough to break their wage structure to also sanction a £100k weekly salary.

This kind of sale would have to be West Ham and Andy Carroll levels of insanity. Far more likely is he signs a 5.5 year £27.5m wage deal and is on our books until 2025.

 

[Cloud7]

Phil Jones MBE.

If we make top 4 ahead of Spurs it should become Sir Phil “Phil Jones” Jones

 

[FootyGirl88]

*NEWSFLASH*

Phil Jones has just been discovered wandering around Wembley stadium in the dark. Apparently he was still trying to find Harry Kane after losing him eleventy times last Sunday.

 

[Foxbatt]

Jones is not bad as some make it out to be and not so good as to be the starting CB for a team challenging trophies. People sometimes go over the top. I remember Rojo and Bailly playing CB and having Kane in his pocket. We need to replace Matic with a younger and more pacey and mobile DM is a more important priority than Jones.

 

[Johan07]

There is no chance any team sanctions a £65m 5 year contract for Phil Jones as you imply (£25m salary and £40m fee).

That kind of transfer is outside of the scope of possibly all but 10-15 clubs in world football. It would be a record package for pretty much all clubs in England outside of the top 6 and the vast majority in Europe outside of the likes of PSG, Bayern, Madrid & Barcelona.

You're treating wages and transfer fees as if they're two separate and mutually exclusive negotiations. That's as far from the truth as can be. Anyone mad enough to spend £35-40m on Jones certainly wouldn't also be insane enough to break their wage structure to also sanction a £100k weekly salary.

This kind of sale would have to be West Ham and Andy Carroll levels of insanity. Far more likely is he signs a 5.5 year £27.5m wage deal and is on our books until 2025.

I think its you that might have the transfer fee/wages relation wrong. A 100k contract over 4+1 year option is slightly less than 25m but that is the projected cost. Its not 55-65m. It might not even be 25m if you move him on after say 2 or 3 years. The correct way of looking at it is that he will cost the buying club or us a ltb less than 5m per year. That is the effect his contract will have on the wage bill yearly and that is what is relevant for any club.
The transfer fee is not a cost. Its an investment for the buying club. Jones is 27 (EDIT, sorry Philip you are actually 26 for a while longer), one year younger than Koulibaly, who many - me included - would have no problem investing 100m plus in. Jones age means that you dont need to consider asset value depreciation until into maybe into the third year of his contract. Same with Koulibaly btw.
The transfer market today compared to just two years ago and def compared to the Andy Carroll days is a completely different animal. There is a lot of money in the PL and a 27 year old England international CB would be a hot property on the market. Its a doable transfer for almost every PL-club today and I would certainly not rule out top-6 clubs like Spurs, who are facing a major dilemma with their homegrown quota already; being interested.
This undervaluing of our own players is weird.