I wanted to see him in midfield, but not in that game for his first time.
Phil Jones
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Good ol Phil. his faces never disappoint.
I hope his confidence isn't knocked. I still think he will do well in midfield.
The Liverpool game might have been too much of a big occasion for him. He's first experience and all.
Saying that, SAF has a lot of faith in the boy, especially to bring him into a game like that and play in a position which he has never played for us before.
The Liverpool game might have been too much of a big occasion for him. He's first experience and all.
Saying that, SAF has a lot of faith in the boy, especially to bring him into a game like that and play in a position which he has never played for us before.
Think his post-match interview showed the contrary.
I was just wondering why he didn't feature against Liverpool !
Its important to recognise that he wasnt playing the same role he had experience in with Blackburn. Fletcher was our deepest midfielder with Giggs, Jones had some kind of free role around and beyond them. My guess would be that the idea was for him to try and carry the ball forward on breaks like when he runs the ball from the back and to do it from a position where it doesnt leave us exposed. Whatever the idea was it didnt really work on the day but he played his part in a pretty good result.
The commentator on the tv channel I watched it on was convinced he was man-marking Charlie Adams. I'm not entirely sure that's what he was doing (as Adams still seemed to have a lot of time on the ball) but he was very advanced.
Which was a bit of a disaster as he didn't have the touch or guile to be effective in tight spaces around their box and was usually caught upfield when there was defending to be done at the other end. In the first 20 minutes of the second half he touched the ball twice, both times the ball went straight to a Liverpool player. Poor lad looked completely lost.
I thought it was pretty clear he was sitting on Adam (not literally), but maybe I was distracted by nerves. Initially anyway, he got dragged about a lot.
I noticed that though. Sometimes, he wouldnt track the Pool player with the ball, but stay close to Adams - and I wondered why. Either cause his positioning is clueless, or he mistook Gerrard for Adams...
He was a bit of a headless chicken, he couldnt find the role he was supposed to play, and of course, its never easy against Liverpool. Just shows that he is a great talent in defence and it might better stays that way
It's worth noting that he looked better than any other 19 year old in the world would have looked.
Adam
Apparently his comments about the Adam incident to MUTV were deleted for being too inflammatory - the next Keano?
I think that's more or less it coupled with the fact that I don't he's ever played such an advanced midfield role. I think he was supposed to help press Liverpool high up the pitch when necessary but most of focus was on staying tight to Adam, however he wouldn't pick the right moments to press and often he'd leave Adam in space. It's down to a lack of experience but as we've seen in defence his positioning does need to be worked on.
Also I don't think the midfield idea is as good as everyone thinks it is. When he runs from defence the forward won't track back and midfielders hate it when someone's running at them. However in midfield they are more likely to you up meaning you need have a bit of craft and intelligence to create space, Jones is a very good footballer but he's not a natural midfielder, I can see him perhaps being able to do a man-marking job in the future but that is reliant on positioning.
The idea that he can play a role in midfield isnt all down to his runs with the ball. I know I didnt see him doing that the couple of times I watched Blackburn last season with him playing. What he did do was win the ball a lot in front of the defence and then pass it to a team mate.
That's the role I thought he would do on Saturday except we had Fletcher playing there with Jones as some auxillary midfielder bombing on to support Welbeck
I know but SAF was playing him in a very advanced midfield role against Liverpool, this suggests to me SAF was trying to use his work-rate, desire and physical presence to great effect but it didn't quite work out due to Jones being unfamiliar with the role he was playing.
What did he say?
We'll never know, but it's not hard to guess the gist of it.
Didn't watch it unfortunately
Erm, unfortunately, no. Cesc and other young midfielders looked always much better
When I was watching the game I thought he didn't do enough offensively to really contribute, given the role he had. There were times when we were working the ball in their half and he could easily have moved a little to find some space, but instead seemed content to just wait, surrounded by Liverpool players and in no place to receive the ball.
Still, that isn't the role I would foresee him playing in the long term and the lad still looks quality overall
Still, that isn't the role I would foresee him playing in the long term and the lad still looks quality overall
RObson on Jones
Me too
Me too
Mmm... Fergie's track record at converting players from other positions into central midfielders doesn't exactly inspire confidence.
Are you saying the Alan Smith experiment was a failure!
I was actually thinking about the extremely short-lived and disasterous experiment with Rio!
Paul Scholes did OK for us in central midfield. He was a striker originally, wasn't he?
So did McClair
I'd completly forgotten about that. Wasn't it a case of need though as we were a bit thin with injuries and suspensions at the time? If memory serves me correctly (which means this is probably as realistic as David Ickes lizard men) didn't he do well in the first game then next terrible?
Keane started off as a defender as well didn't he? (not for us), before he became a legend.
I don't think so. Not when he was Cobh Ramblers anyway.
Lots of players do change positions though. So Jones could well end up in midfield. Can't really see it myself though. Would be a very big ask, based on the type of player he seems to be.
Do you think he'll be a centre half Pogue? I thought that when we signed him but not anymore.
I'd like to see him given a run at full back personally but think there's every chance he'll end up as an all action midfield player.
I remember occasionally him being played there when we were stretched.
Still miss him!
Arguably the best midfielder we've had under Sir Alex came from out of position.
When players changes positions it's usually from forwards to midfielders or midfielders to defenders. Can't think of a player who started of as a defender then made a career as a midfielder or forward.
Edit: Marcel Desailly did very well in midfield for Milan despite playing at the back fro his other clubs.
Edit: Marcel Desailly did very well in midfield for Milan despite playing at the back fro his other clubs.
I think someone started a thread about this once. It's common enough to move backwards over the course of a career. Unusual to move in the opposite direction.
What was that defender called for Blackburn that changed to playing centerforward and became their top scorer one season?
Malcolm MacDonald started off at fullback and ended up as England centreforward.
We only played it twice - actually, I'm quite sure we played Rio AND Rooney in midfield, which must have made it harder for both. First we beat Wolves 3-0 in the FA Cup, then we lost to Blackburn 3-4 (That Bentley hat trick) and Rio was sent off.
I wouldn't say it was a disaster. Rio as a midfielder could have worked out but it was just one of those things we did short term and it was never going to last. He was needed elsewhere.
Phil Jones can be a great midfielder, and looking at our options at the back we may see him playing there quite a bit. I'm not a great fan of a player converted to midfield because it's such a difficult and huge position, you need a specialist, but it not too bad when you've got a defender playing a holding role (which is why O'Shea and Phil Neville normally did OK). Jones can do a similar role but with far more class and the ability to get forward.
By Zeus's Beard! I actually remembered something correctly!
I was thinking Paul Warhurst but looking at his record he wasn't that great. Wasn't Chris Sutton a defender/ before making a big move to Blackburn? Not sure otherwise