SAF's amazing, nobody rave over Jones and Cleverly and suddenly voila, they're running the United's engine.
Same can be said with Evra, Ronaldo, Vidic, Nani.
He's really underrated in the transfer department SAF
SAF is not underrated in the transfer market imo, 99% of sane people realise he's brilliant at it.
I'd consider Vidic and VDS stunning coups. Nobody even thought about VDS at the time, and VDS for £2M was a steal.
You're forgetting Chicharito.
Fulham bought him for about 7mil in 2001. Now that would have been a steal, and saved us floundering around for a goalie for half a decade.
I'm in the 1%. I think he's good in the transfer market, but not brilliant.
His best buys have generally been either no-brainers that anyone would have bought if they could (Keane, Rio, Rooney), or players who were highly rated without being superstars (Shmikes, Ruud, probably Phil Jones) - excellent buys but very much the kind of player you'd expect a top professional outfit like United to identify and bring in. There have been a few stunning coups along, the way, like Cantona and Ronaldo, and some awful buys too.
It would have been but I'm sure we had Barthez who was doing pretty well at the time and VDS had just come from being a flop at Juve. Not sure how Ferguson could have bargained on Barthez losing it as he did.
He's a very good judge of character, less so of skill. Some of his awful buys have been where he discounted character in favour of skill (or some other reason), e.g. Veron, Kleberson.
Mind you, that doesn't exactly explain Djemba Djemba, or even Liam Miller.
If you're in a job 25 years though you're bound to pick up a few duck eggs on the way. On the whole, I have faith in Sir Alex in the transfer market. He's best when picking up young players though, I'd say.
I'd consider Vidic and VDS stunning coups. Nobody even thought about VDS at the time, and VDS for £2M was a steal.
I'm in the 1%. I think he's good in the transfer market, but not brilliant.
His best buys have generally been either no-brainers that anyone would have bought if they could (Keane, Rio, Rooney), or players who were highly rated without being superstars (Shmikes, Ruud, probably Phil Jones) - excellent buys but very much the kind of player you'd expect a top professional outfit like United to identify and bring in. There have been a few stunning coups along, the way, like Cantona and Ronaldo, and some awful buys too.
Who do you think has a better record? There'd have to be a fair few if Fergie's record is merely "good". Every manager has "awful buys" on their cv but Fergie more than makes up for this with his overall record.
You could make a case for Wenger, based purely on value for money but he's fallen well short when it comes to signing players with the right mentality to win the domestic league. Well, that and signing central defenders. Plus his record with keepers is no better than Fergie's.
In other words, I can't think of any manager with a better eye in the transfer market than Fergie.
Hargreaves was decent. Wouldn't have won the double without him. I think we signed him fully knowing he was a sicknote, and we'd get two seasons out of him. Turned out we got just one (very good one), but sometimes you lose gambles.
I'm not biting, because I've been down this road on here before... it's a road that ends with vast lists of players being rated out of ten, and protracted arguments about whether Jordi Cruyff really was shit, and liberal use of the word spastic.
Suffice to say I think Fergie's above average in the market. If there's any manager you think is great in the market apart from Fergie, chances are I rate him higher.
This is the sort of thing the arguments end up being about. We won the double with him, but we might have also won the double if that money had been spent on someone better who wasn't a known crock. He might have helped us win even more titles than we ended up winning.
Hargreaves was a very poor buy.
He's not flawless though. For a start, there's still the odd gaff. Hargreaves, Tosic, Bebe, Obertan. That must be close to £60m of fees.
I'm actually genuinely curious about who you think is better.
The only person whose record I would always have considered "great" is Arsene Wenger but the ongoing inability of his team to reach the next level (or even scrape together a competent back four) has given me second thoughts.
After him? Nope. Nobody springs to mind. Other than Fergie, anyway.
I'm actually genuinely curious about who you think is better.
The only person whose record I would always have considered "great" is Arsene Wenger but the ongoing inability of his team to reach the next level (or even scrape together a competent back four) has given me second thoughts.
After him? Nope. Nobody springs to mind. Other than Fergie, anyway.
Mourinho's generally bought well, but he spazzed out a bit in his last season at Chelsea. I think he's about the same as Fergie in the market.
I'm in the 1%. I think he's good in the transfer market, but not brilliant.
His best buys have generally been either no-brainers that anyone would have bought if they could (Keane, Rio, Rooney), or players who were highly rated without being superstars (Shmikes, Ruud, probably Phil Jones) - excellent buys but very much the kind of player you'd expect a top professional outfit like United to identify and bring in. There have been a few stunning coups along, the way, like Cantona and Ronaldo, and some awful buys too.
Hargreaves wasn't a bad signing. He couldn't predict that he would be out for three of his four years here. Yes, his injury record was poor but it was more of a case of playing 70% of games at Bayern than not playing at all.
Wenger is much better in the market in my book, at least as far as he is actually in the market.
Moyes, Bruce, Allardyce, Redknapp all seem to be able to pick a player, in the first three cases often someone I've never heard of.
Mourinho's generally bought well, but he spazzed out a bit in his last season at Chelsea. I think he's about the same as Fergie in the market.
At Bayern...Games Stared (Sub Appearences)
01/02 - 20 +5
02/03 - 19+6
03/04 - 26
04/05 - 20+6
05/06 - 14+3
06/07 - 9
I'm in the 1%. I think he's good in the transfer market, but not brilliant.
His best buys have generally been either no-brainers that anyone would have bought if they could (Keane, Rio, Rooney), or players who were highly rated without being superstars (Shmikes, Ruud, probably Phil Jones) - excellent buys but very much the kind of player you'd expect a top professional outfit like United to identify and bring in. There have been a few stunning coups along, the way, like Cantona and Ronaldo, and some awful buys too.
No-brainers are often buys which seem obvious but have enormous potential to backfire. Many people felt he hugely overpaid for Rio and that he was nowhere near as good as the fee implied. Rooney could have gone off the rails and come nowhere near realising his potential (see Reyes at Arsenal).
Shmikes was not that highly regarded as it happens and you are forgetting people like Irwin, Evra, Vidic.
The number of awful buys is actually very small considering the success he has had and the years he has been here.
What signings have Moyes, Bruce or Allardyce made that are comparable to signing Vidic or Evra for 6 or 7 million?
Of course, and sometimes it's a good buy that for some reason just doesn't work. I'd put Seba in that category.
Nevertheless, the no-brainers are no-brainers, even though they can still go wrong. I was absolutely desperate for us to sign Roy Keane, I was glued to teletext all summer, and I was 16.
Well they were just examples, it wasn't meant to be exhaustive.
I would say the number of truly awful buys is small, and the number of absolute gems is also small. There have been more good than bad, that's why I think he's good in the market not bad. I just don't think he's a genius in the market, whereas I do think he's a genius as an all-round manager.
Bruce brought in Valencia for around 5 million didn't he? Saying that I think the mastermind behind that transfer was the Jewell himself, maybe?
What signings have Moyes, Bruce or Allardyce made that are comparable to signing Vidic or Evra for 6 or 7 million?
It's league only, right? So adding starts to appearances as a substitution he played around 25 games a season until 2006 which isn't bad in a league where there are 34 games each year.
If you look at transfers like investments then I would say Wenger overtrades and whilst he often seems to find gems, you'll find more futile transfers etc under Wenger and much of the good that he does is outweighed by the high turnover. For example, he has sold several players that could have still a very good job for him (Silva for example).
Ferguson actually makes relatively few transfers in comparison and also rarely moves players on unsuccessfully (let's hope Hargreaves doesn't prove to be an exception). Keane was a no-brainer in many ways but I think that is the exception rather than the norm. Evra, Vidic, Smalling, Carrick, Valencia, Hernandez are all important to this squad and none are what I would call no-brainers.
