Phil Jones

kps88 said:
What position would you play him in though? He's looked at his best for us when at RB.
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i wouldnt play him.

he isnt a better player in any position that any first team player. untill he is he should be bit part.

in his defense, he plugged gaps when we had injuries. he's played in inconsistant positions and starting lines up so give him his due for that. but i could name if i was to name my first choice starting eleven and then using totally different players, a second choice starting eleven, Phil Joes would be in niether
 
kps88 said:
What position would you play him in though? He's looked at his best for us when at RB.
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no he hasn't...not a chance. He made a couple of bumbling, ball out of control runs early on, put in 2-3 decent crosses this season and people thought he was a marauding RB.

I think Jones has shown flashes of promise in three positions he's played in this season - but there is no case for 'his best'.

Rafael is not perfect, but even at his worst, he is 10 times better than Jones at RB. If Fergie thought Rafael needed a rest, or was slightly injured/off form, it should have been Smalling at RB.

I wouldn't play Jones anywhere the rest of the season - shut him down. He's had a big 1st season at United, for a kid his age. It's something to build on for next season.
 
Neutral said:
no he hasn't...not a chance. He made a couple of bumbling, ball out of control runs early on, put in 2-3 decent crosses this season and people thought he was a marauding RB.

Rafael is not perfect, but even at his worst, he is 10 times better than Jones at RB. If Fergie thought Rafael needed a rest, or was slightly injured/off form, it should have been Smalling at RB.

I wouldn't play Jones anywhere the rest of the season - shut him down. He's had a big 1st season at United, for a kid his age. It's something to build on for next season.
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part in bold is massive exaggeration. Also dont agree that smalling is the better RB. He's better defensively but i think jones offers more going forward. he's got a very good cross on him for starters.

for me, its more of him struggling for form rather than position being an issue. its been a long season. the summer break should do him a world of good, for a young kid in his 1st season here, he's played a lot.
 
Colin129 said:
Should have played Smalling instead of Jones last night, he's simply a better player.

I feel that Jones has been hyped up so much, he's too overrated by too many.
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the english media do that with blood and thunder players. it breeds more bllod and thunder players because kids get caught up in the hype and think thats the way to play.

Smalling is and outstanding centre half for his age and i honestly dont recall him making a mistake which cost a goal (arguably the penna at stamford bridge last year, bit flat footed)! He however gets half the priase that jones does.

Had the pair been spanish, jones wouldnt have made it and smalling would be earmarked for greatness!!
 
My final post that got repped in the Newbs was in a thread in the Newbs where I said I felt Smalling was better than Jones, however Jones has fantastic potential and a great attitude. He's a future United captain without a doubt, like many young players he's just experiencing the peaks and troughs of form, he'll be fine.
 
20 year old in poor form shocker. It's his first full season at United and I'd say he's done really well when you look at the defensive injuries we've had along with the stop-start season he has had. I still think he will he a very good player for us, and next season I reckon he will be much improved.
 
I'd rather have Jones at right back instead of Smalling, he's more mobile, but I agree that we should put an end to his season (unless we really need him). He's been poor since his string of injuries. Brilliant before that, but he's not going to regain that form again this season.
 
He's tired, and suffering from inconsistant starts in whatever position he's been needed to fill in.
 
ben_foster said:
the english media do that with blood and thunder players. it breeds more bllod and thunder players because kids get caught up in the hype and think thats the way to play.

Smalling is and outstanding centre half for his age and i honestly dont recall him making a mistake which cost a goal (arguably the penna at stamford bridge last year, bit flat footed)! He however gets half the priase that jones does.

Had the pair been spanish, jones wouldnt have made it and smalling would be earmarked for greatness!!
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Smalling is definitely the better CB, no doubt, but Jones for me is the better RB as he offers more going forward. There was a poll iirc about this not very long ago.
 
put it this way, Phil Jones will never be a better full back or centre back than Wes Brown
 
ben_foster said:
the english media do that with blood and thunder players. it breeds more bllod and thunder players because kids get caught up in the hype and think thats the way to play.

Smalling is and outstanding centre half for his age and i honestly dont recall him making a mistake which cost a goal (arguably the penna at stamford bridge last year, bit flat footed)! He however gets half the priase that jones does.

Had the pair been spanish, jones wouldnt have made it and smalling would be earmarked for greatness!!
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If we forget the English media for a second, why did so many others get carried away by this blood and thunder player? Is it because they're all a bit simple too, just so easily misled by the media? Fabio Capello compares him to Baresi, Tom Clare compares him to Edwards and yet apparently he wouldn't have made it in Spanish football. Something doesn't seem quite right there.
 
ben_foster said:
put it this way, Phil Jones will never be a better full back or centre back than Wes Brown
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Varun_Utd said:
huh? How can you say that with so much certainty?
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Wes Brown was destined for greatness, SAF heaped praise on him, didn't he say he was the best natural defender he had ever seen or something?

Unfortunately he spent most of his 'best' years injured.
 
Colin129 said:
Wes Brown was destined for greatness, SAF heaped praise on him, didn't he say he was the best natural defender he had ever seen or something?

Unfortunately he spent most of his 'best' years injured.
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What Brown was/was not destined for hardly matters when we're comparing if Jones can be as good a CB. Due to his injuries, Brown never really became a genuinely top CB for us for say a couple of seasons on the trot. If jones can stay fit and realise his potential, he could become a better CB or atleast contribute on as high a level if not more for a prolonged period of time.

Even if one doesnt feel so, the possibility still can not be dismissed the way ben_foster did.
 
He's 20 and has shown more than enough to suggest he could potentially be one of the worlds best when he matures as a player. Claiming he's not going to be as good as Brown is daft.
 
the difference between the two was as sir alex pointed out......wes brown was a natural defender. Phil Jones isnt a natural defender. He's a natural trier, in terms of effort he'll never let us down. in terms of ability at the same age he is way behind the likes of smalling, evens, brown, woodgate, campbell, rio etc etc who are all natural defenders and good footballers.

i am not dismissing jones' potential. i am dismissing this idea that he is a central midfielder FULL STOP. and also that he'll be a united england captain / great. Jamie carragher is a better defender and was at the same age who also played all over....right back, left back, centre back, centre mid.

all the players ive mentioned could play in different positions becuase they are good footballers, the reason they dont??? becuase they are too good at defending to waste else where. Jones isnt too good of a centre back that we are wasting him playing else where, and in my personal opinion.....he never will be because its some thing that cant be taught. he can improve but he'l never ever be a top centre back!!
 
Cina said:
He's 20 and has shown more than enough to suggest he could potentially be one of the worlds best when he matures as a player. Claiming he's not going to be as good as Brown is daft.
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its no dafter than claiming he's going to be great, going to be england captain and compairing him to baresi.

its my opinion that phil jones is not a natural nor a good defender! look at our goals against when he's played centre back!!
 
ben_foster said:
its my opinion that phil jones is not a natural nor a good defender! look at our goals against when he's played centre back!!
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What great center back was ever actually great when they were 19?
 
towchester red....im not. he was class

cina, few have been great centre backs at 19....evens and woodgate where probs the best ive ever seen at that age.

however, all of the players ive mentioned had the "natural defender" look about them at that age. sure it was Still all potential. Sure they all still dropped clangers (especially in rio's case). The difference is I don’t see phil jones reading the game. He's constantly giving freekicks away by rashly challenging for headers etc 30 yards out of position. He's been cuaght out so many times its untrue. People applaud his last ditch tackles and blocks and I think everybody admires his heart and determination but as rio recently said…..if you come off with clean shorts you've played well.
 
Jones has shown his potential with some super performances this weekend, but as a youngster, he's bound to have dips in form and his injuries have probably interupted his progress.

He's certainly versatile , though I doubt he'll end up as the "turn to, play anywhere" man like John O'Shea did, I think he'll cement his own position eventually.
 
Jones has all the physical aspects needed to be a great center back. Mental aspects are something you gain with maturity, it takes much longer to learn all there is to being a great CB than a winger, striker etc. Jones rash tackles and runs that you mention are simply because of his lack of experience and his age, he just needs time to learn all these things, they can be easily trained out of him. Rio was palpable to many a daft decision up until he was 26/27 himself, and he's arguably the greatest CB of the last decade.
 
misterredmist said:
Jones has shown his potential with some super performances this weekend, but as a youngster, he's bound to have dips in form and his injuries have probably interupted his progress.

He's certainly versatile , though I doubt he'll end up as the "turn to, play anywhere" man like John O'Shea did, I think he'll cement his own position eventually.
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can you se him becoming a better centre back than smalling or evens?
 
Cina said:
Jones has all the physical aspects needed to be a great center back. Mental aspects are something you gain with maturity, it takes much longer to learn all there is to being a great CB than a winger, striker etc. Jones rash tackles and runs that you mention are simply because of his lack of experience and his age, he just needs time to learn all these things, they can be easily trained out of him. Rio was palpable to many a daft decision up until he was 26/27 himself, and he's arguably the greatest CB of the last decade.[/QUOTE]

agreed. my point being.....rio could ALWAYS defend. thats what he was. Where rio made mistakes was trying to play too much. rio has ability way beyond jones both interms of defensive know how and technically on the ball. also much taller and also much quicker, even now!
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Are people doubting the immense potential of Jones? Fools!
He is the real deal, you will see.

When he had a run of games earlier in the season he showed his quality, since then he has been stop/start due to injury and being played in different positions - hardly suprising that his level has dropped off.
 
Rood said:
Are people doubting the immense potential of Jones? Fools!
He is the real deal, you will see.

When he had a run of games earlier in the season he showed his quality, since then he has been stop/start due to injury and being played in different positions - hardly suprising that his level has dropped off.
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not at centre back he didnt.
your remembering the odd brace block and rampaging run. those are blinkering your memory and your forgetting the poor positioning and awful reading of the games
 
ben_foster said:
not at centre back he didnt.
your remembering the odd brace block and rampaging run. those are blinkering your memory and your forgetting the poor positioning and awful reading of the games
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Im not forgetting anything, I actually agree that he has been a bit suspect at CB. I prefer him in CM or RB, however I think he can be a top CB in time as well.
 
ben_foster said:
can you se him becoming a better centre back than smalling or evens?
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It's Evans, not Evens!

Smalling is potentially the best CB in the world so that'd be a tall order for anyone, but he can be right up there. And yes, he can be better than Evans (a compliment in itself).
 
Has had a fantastic debut season for us and the future talent is undoubtedly there for him to be a future Manchester United and England great. Not Since Rooney or Ronaldo have I been as excited about a new United teenage gem.

But his performances in the last couple of games, yes driven by lack of form due to injury, have been very patchy. I was not impressed at all by his performance vs Wigan (given I woke up at 245am to watch the game!) and whilst the rest of the side was also off, I hoped he would perform to his potential at right back.

I'd rather SAF did not risk him now for these crunch end of the game seasons. I'm abit baffled why Sammling can't get a look in at the moment.

If SAF does want to rotate the RB slot with Rafael and AN Other, I'd prefer that is Smalling til the end of season end than Jones. Sure, lets have Phil Jones on the bench and bring him on when he can, but he has served his purpose this season.

We need more experience and know how at this last stage of the season, yes even Rafael and Smalling have more know how at this stage of a Manchester United season than Phil Jones has right now.

He will get picked for the England Euro's Squad and no matter if he plays or not, that will be a great learning experience for him. Get him back next year to fight it out for establishing himself full tike in the first team.
 
misterredmist said:
Jones has shown his potential with some super performances this weekend, but as a youngster, he's bound to have dips in form and his injuries have probably interupted his progress.

He's certainly versatile , though I doubt he'll end up as the "turn to, play anywhere" man like John O'Shea did, I think he'll cement his own position eventually.
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He has done far more than prove all you say this season. He is going to be a colossus for us and for many years. But I think his contributions this season is enough.

We need no 20 in the bag and I'd rather we now go with the tried and tested rather than give young players match time to 'learn' from.

We would so benefit from having JOS in the squad still!
 
His performances have dropped of from earlier in the season, which is a possibly due to injuries, and constant changes at the back. As stated above, he is going be outstanding performer in a few years. With his physique we tend to forget he's still very young to be the finished article.

Our best right back by a distance is Rafael, however, if Jones needs to be given games I'd prefer him to learn at right back in important games and ease him in easier games at Centre-half.
 
Buried in an article about Evans, Fergie may have revealed to us that he sees Phil Jones as a center back in the future.

It's been difficult for [Chris] Smalling and [Phil] Jones at the moment because of their form [Evans's and Ferdinand's], because they are due to be our centre-backs in the future.
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Considering Evans is young himself, it's interesting that he say this about Smalling and Jones. Though some of us, myself included, agree that Smalling and Jones have more raw talent and see them as better future center backs.

I think Jones could be a CB that goes forward, as is fashionable these days, like Javi Martinez, playing a position that blurs the lines between CB, sweeper and holding midfielder.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2012/apr/21/jonny-evans-best-defender-alex-ferguson
 
I don't think there's any question that he's going to be a centre back in the future. It's where he belongs. Yes, he hasn't looked good there this season and has been exposed, but that's largely because of his poor positional sense and lack of tactical awareness, things which will improve with experience as time goes on. The rest of his defensive game is there. He's the right size, while is already good with a lot of his defensive attributes, which will of course only improve as time progresses.

The only other position I could see him making it at is right back, however I think that Rafael wil have that spot nailed down for years to come if he can maintain his fitness.

Many will see him as a centre mid, but I've got to say that I completely disagree. He's played there a few times and looked decent, but he should only be there whenever we need some energy and someone to get about the midfield. He's good on the ball for a defender, but compare him to any good midfielder and you'll quickly realise that his technique isn't that good. Playing him in midfield would be following the typical British mentality of going for players who run around a lot and are physical as opposed to the players who have the best technique.
 
gooDevil said:
Considering Evans is young himself, it's interesting that he say this about Smalling and Jones. Though some of us, myself included, agree that Smalling and Jones have more raw talent and see them as better future center backs.
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I disagree with that, I think Evans is miles ahead of Jones in the centreback position and was miles ahead at the same age. Jones has something though that Evans doesn't have, something a bit special that you can't put your finger on. He has so much potential and quality in certain areas of his game that you just can't imagine him being any less than a top class player in a few years time but the areas he is lacking in now, namely; positioning, concentration and decision making, can be really costly to us and lead to some school boy errors that really let him down and take some shine off his star right now.

I'll be surprised if he settles in a position and makes it his own, I think he'll be very much a utility player for us and there is no shame in that. I can't see past a maturing Evans and the quality and classy Smalling as our future centre backs.
 
I mean, I understand what Ben foster means but let's get him a decent run at CB for like at least 15 games like Evans did before we judge the boy to be poor at CB...

Come on guys !

You expect him to be the new Beckenbauer when he's been playing 3 positions ?

He's hardly made a super bad mistake at CB yet, ok position wise he might get caught off track a bit but hey, our style of play is so different of what was Blackburns, a team mostly defending compared to a team mostly attacking ? He'll always have better moments in a blackburn side but one fatal mistake at United and he's a poor CB ?

Guys have got to give him more time, he'll definitely prove it that he'll be a proper CB once he gets a good run of games going for us...

Evans/Jones/Smalling... We've never had so much potential in this department before and as a United fan, we should be delighted... Or if you want to go back to the finished Blanc, Silvestre, Wes Brown crashing into Barthez era then have it folks.

I'm pretty sure Jones has learnt a lot in this season, hopefully collecting a winners medal to boost his morale and I'm sure he's learning as much as possible from Vida as he'll probably be most suited to cover's Vida's role while Evans-Smalling battle for the Rio spot. ( Just how I see it right now ).

Let's reserve judgement for now shall we ?
 
I think everyone is reserving judgement to be fair. All I hear people saying in a negative sense is either;

A) Evans is a better defender now

or

B) They think that Evans and Smalling will be our future CB's.

Neither of those opinions are a slight on Jones at all, but a compliment to our other players. Jones (hopefully) will be fantastic in some defensive position, but I just can't tell where. It's not the time of the season for the lad to be learning his trade though!!
 
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