The other option is Rafael who, to be fair, deserved to be dropped after the Everton game.
Phil Jones
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The other option is Rafael who, to be fair, deserved to be dropped after the Everton game.
So? Other players have had poor games before, and he did get dropped for City. Today we need to be sound in attack and we've taken away from that by putting Jones there. We could have put Valencia there as well with Nani ahead.
I think he's worse than Evra for crossing and that's bad enough
Thats what happens when you play out of position. Not his fault
yeah he's trying and the experience will eventually come good.
I don't think so, Evra is the worst crosser of all the fullbacks/wingers we have
Went to centre half and didn't make any further mistakes. A sign perhaps?
Yeah that's what I expected to be honest, considering we needed to score a lot of goals. I think Jones is going to be an absolute class act in a few years and is already a very good player, but attacking wise he isn't there yet, so this wasn't a game for him.
There was nothing wrong with his performance today. This is a young player with potential, but Fergie might ruin him if next season he is again selected to play a different role in nearly every game.
Exactly, he's a talent no doubt but we needed goals today and he's shown that his attacking play there is poor. Our lack of attacking threat at fall back on a regular basis is something we really need to work on. In todays game it's a massive part of the team and I don't think we're making the most of it.
He was shite today (again). Huge talent, but he's plenty of time. Why on earth didn't we sub him for Nani and go for it with Valencia at RB? I don't get it at all.
His crossing is the major part of his performance that annoyed me today.
Otherwise I thought he did well. We do need to cut him a bit of slack though. He's learned so much in his debut season and these experiences will hopefully be the making of him as a top player. Remember, nobody expected him to get so many games, so soon.
Otherwise I thought he did well. We do need to cut him a bit of slack though. He's learned so much in his debut season and these experiences will hopefully be the making of him as a top player. Remember, nobody expected him to get so many games, so soon.
He's been getting a lot of undeserved criticism lately. People were happy enough to have a clogger at right back just a season ago who misplaced every other pass over the halfway line and now they whinge about Jones' crossing.
He was alright today. Stop complaining.
He deserves all the criticism he gets at the moment, but he'll learn from this poor spell in form. It'll make him mentally stronger as a player.
Yeah I think Jones is slowly becoming our new scapegoat, our crossing has been wank all round in recent weeks to be blunt.
for me this was our biggest mistake this campaign.
We bought Jones (nothing to do with Jones) but we bought a defender we didn't really need in favour of a central midfielder (who we really did need). The fact that Jones has hardly played at CB all season tells me that we didn't really need him there and we'd have been better of with a central midfielder who can keep the ball!
SAF knew more than I did. We both knew that Hargreaves was leaving, Scholes was retiring, Anderson had never played more than 20 games in a season due to fitness, that Giggs was ageing, and that Park's powers were on the wane following his knee surgery a few years ago.
But in addition SAF knew that Fletcher had Bowel Cancer and I didn't! No excuse - should have signed a central midfield player!
We bought Jones (nothing to do with Jones) but we bought a defender we didn't really need in favour of a central midfielder (who we really did need). The fact that Jones has hardly played at CB all season tells me that we didn't really need him there and we'd have been better of with a central midfielder who can keep the ball!
SAF knew more than I did. We both knew that Hargreaves was leaving, Scholes was retiring, Anderson had never played more than 20 games in a season due to fitness, that Giggs was ageing, and that Park's powers were on the wane following his knee surgery a few years ago.
But in addition SAF knew that Fletcher had Bowel Cancer and I didn't! No excuse - should have signed a central midfield player!
This makes no sense, Jones is young and talented, there's nothing wrong with buying such players. Ashley Young is a far more baffling signing.
True, final ball has been a let down but still I think the decision to play him when we needed goals, regardless of how unlikely it was that we could score enough was odd. Evra is erratic but can put in a good ball occasionally, but more then that carries the ball extremely well and makes good runs. Jones on the other hand can't cross but also is not comfortable on the ball. Unless he's running on to the ball he won't get past anyone because he won't/can't take people on. His sense of when and where to make attacking runs is also not there, there were loads of times where you could visibly see Valencia was frustrated by Jones's lack of movement. Rafael isn't as solid defensively but is so much better going forward. Valencia has played there very well and in tougher games then today and when we had an unused Nani it was odd.
Again it's not Jones's fault, because it's still an unusual position for him and he's learning. Which is why I said it was an odd decision by Fergie. We needed as strong an attacking line up as we could without sacrificing too much balance from the team and I think playing Jones there took away from that.
Rafael's just in the doghouse for the Everton game. It's a valuable experience for Jones.
Ok but what about Valencia? There's a time and place for getting experience but surely when you've got a shot at a title, however remote, then you go for it as best you can?
He's not a RB, we established that against Norwich at home, not sure he's been used there since. Let's be fecking honest here there's no way we were ever going to outscore City by 8 goals over these last two games no matter who was playing RB.
He's also played very well there against Chelsea and West Ham in much tougher games and environments then today. Again however remote surely you still go for it as best you can, otherwise he may as well have started Clev if we've given up.
I didn't see that game. Who did we play against??
You still want to win the game, it's our last home game of the season.
Everytime I see him going forward with the ball, I just keep thinking Rafael would be so much better for us right now
Hmm think we could have won with Clev as well if it was just about winning. I think as with some other decisions this was more due to Fergie being stubborn than anything else.
Yes I agree. No long term injury only some minor knocks on his feet's... but regarding his overall football performance on the pitch he looked like a academy player. More energy and willingness then quality and end product. I give him the benefit that we played him out of his natural position but it was still bad enough to be critisized. He will obviously learn from his mistake and it will benefit us in the end but can we please call his performance for what it was.
He's not a fullback. He's very poor at pretending to be one (not unike Smalling, or Valencia, or whoever else we've needlessly shoved there).
He seems to play there just as an excuse to play him somewhere, which is perplexing when it means people who actually are very good fullbacks can barely get a look in.
Right fullback has been one of our biggest weak spots this season, despite us having two players who are among the better right fullbacks in the league, repeatedly not being selected in the team.
He seems to play there just as an excuse to play him somewhere, which is perplexing when it means people who actually are very good fullbacks can barely get a look in.
Right fullback has been one of our biggest weak spots this season, despite us having two players who are among the better right fullbacks in the league, repeatedly not being selected in the team.
Rafael's cost us goals this season with school boy errors. I think that's irked Fergie. However bad Jones looks going forward, he's done pretty well defensively and doesn't get caught ball watching as much as Rafael.
Now that the fatuous Duncan Edwards comparisons seemed to have ended.
What is his best position? For me it's central defence
What is his best position? For me it's central defence
He's going to have to put up with a few more seasons of being our new O'shea. Isn't good enough at the moment to get into our team if we just play him in one position.
Yea can't see him making it at any other position.
Reality check for Jones this title run in. You could see simple mistakes and nervousness getting the better of him quite a few times. In his last 3 or 4 outings he looked fazed in the dying minutes when we were pushing on - some dodgy passing or decisioning.
As many said, he'll come back stronger. He needed that I think.
As many said, he'll come back stronger. He needed that I think.
Oh gee you must be thrilled that an opportunity to write some tedious shit about a player who doesnt even play for us any more arose.
Id rather have had O'Shea than the kind of performance Jones had today.
If he played for Liverpool I'd probably piss myself at how clueless he's looked over the past 3 months.
Couldn't help but laugh.
He's had a lot of stick from us lately and rightly so cos he's been error prone for months as you say. However, I don't think it helps that he's been thrown in at the deep end psychologically with having to deal with the pressure of the title race while also having to adjust to new roles virtually every time Fergie picks him.
Phil Jones will be a commanding centre half. Not a right back, not a midfielder, a centre half. That's where he should have got a run in the side if he was going to get one. A young guy like him didn't and doesn't need the pressure of trying to play in an unfamiliar position while dealing with the unfamiliar strain of squeaky bum time.
Ok he had some shit crosses but apart from that what did he do wrong today ?
Thought it was one of his better games compares to his three previous outings.
Thought it was one of his better games compares to his three previous outings.
I won't slate him but I hope his decision making would be better with experience and as a right back you need to stick close to your man rather than giving them 2 yards of space.
I still think he will be immense for us in the next few seasons. But i think he is more of a Paul Ince kind of player rather than a centrehalf.
I still think he will be immense for us in the next few seasons. But i think he is more of a Paul Ince kind of player rather than a centrehalf.
His crossing was poor but did nothing else wrong yesterday. I just don't get why SAF insisted on him at RB after we were 2-0 up and it was clear we might as well go gung ho. I'd have had Nani on in a flash with Valencia at RB. I mean, really now, what did we have to lose? We had everything to gain to go all out attack yesterday. Ah well...