Players you don't get how they're rated as highly as they are

Brwned said:
Seeing as Arsenal's game is based entirely around passing, I'd say he does quite a lot.

It's like saying Scholes doesn't do very much.
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Well, not really. Scholes offers a much bigger goal threat. That is why Scholes is world class, and Fabregas is not. Passing ability alone can not make a player great, and passing seems to be all that Fabregas is good at.

Don't get me wrong, he's a good player, but when I hear the Arsenal supporters talk about him as if he's some £40 million world beater, I can't help but laugh. Flamini was a much more valuable player for them.
 
rednev said:
Well, not really. Scholes offers a much bigger goal threat. That is why Scholes is world class, and Fabregas is not. Passing ability alone can not make a player great, and passing seems to be all that Fabregas is good at.

Don't get me wrong, he's a good player, but when I hear the Arsenal supporters talk about him as if he's some £40 million world beater, I can't help but laugh. Flamini was a much more valuable player for them.
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Fabregas has 27 goals since he broke through in 04/05, Scholes has 26 in the same amount of time.

Going by your logic Scholes and Xavi(among others) aren't world class.
 
Sometimes it's the only way to prove a point!
 
Brwned said:
Fabregas has 27 goals since he fully broke through in 05/06, Scholes has 26 in the same amount of time.
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Scholes had played not nearly as many games as Fabregas by the age of 21, and Scholes was a late developer. He wasn't really considered to be a world class midfielder until his mid twenties.

Brwned said:
Going by your logic Scholes and Xavi(among others) aren't world class.
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Rubbish. Xavi is more of a defensive midfielder. He offers so much more than passing. Until I see Fabregas actually doing something more than pretty passes, I will continue to see him as overrated.
 
rednev said:
Scholes had played not nearly as many games as Fabregas by the age of 21, and Scholes was a late developer. He wasn't really considered to be a world class midfielder until his mid twenties.

Rubbish. Xavi is more of a defensive midfielder. He offers so much more than passing. Until I see Fabregas actually doing something more than pretty passes, I will continue to see him as overrated.
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I'm talking about Scholes from 04/05-08/09, not Scholes when he was 18.

Xavi's nothing like a defensive midfielder. What more does he offer than Fabregas?
 
Brwned said:
I'm talking about Scholes from 04/05-08/09, not Scholes when he was 18.

Xavi's nothing like a defensive midfielder. What more does he offer than Fabregas?
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I find something unfair to be comparing a player in his mid-30's to a player who is much younger and plays further up the pitch...

And :lol: at the second line, Xavi offers far more than Fabregas and i can bet most Asnl fans would love Fabregas to be the next Xavi (EDIT into more detail, Xavis got more pace about him, a better dribbler, has a very good shot on him, passing range is much wider if you ask me and has a footballing brain that imo is one of the best in the world)
 
Brwned said:
I'm talking about Scholes from 04/05-08/09, not Scholes when he was 18.

Xavi's nothing like a defensive midfielder. What more does he offer than Fabregas?
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Xavi is an all round central midfielder, who can offer a stabilizing role to Barcelona's midfield when the occasion calls for it. Who do you think plays as their DM when Toure isn't playing?

As you seem to like your stats so much, do you have any that would compare the amount of goals Scholes and Fabregas scored from 04/05-08/09 with the amount of games they played? If what you're saying is true, that I imagine it's because Fabregas has played more games. And goals aside, Scholes was, and probably still is, much better at finding space and creating chances than Fabregas is.
 
OneUnited24 said:
I find something unfair to be comparing a player in his mid-30's to a player who is much younger and plays further up the pitch...

And :lol: at the second line, Xavi offers far more than Fabregas and i can bet most Asnl fans would love Fabregas to be the next Xavi
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Scholes was the best midfielder in Europe in 06/07, and plays just as far forward as Fabregas.

Xavi's a magnificent player, you're missing the point entirely of me asking that question.
 
Brwned said:
Scholes was the best midfielder in Europe in 06/07, and plays just as far forward as Fabregas.

Xavi's a magnificent player, you're missing the point entirely of me asking that question.
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:nono: IMHO Scholes has started to play much more deeper than before, he has almost accepted that he cannot cover as much ground in his final years so plays deeper and allows his passing range to control the game - Scholes was famed for his late runs into the box something we very rarely see of him.

Also i was saying that Xavi is far better than young Fabregas (hes still only 22 so im not going to say he will never be better than Xavi - in fact i believe Barca had him in their youth team to one day replace Xavi) in almost any position he plays in midfield, never have i seen a more complete midfielder in my life - he tracks back, can tackle when he has too. You could put Fabregas as a DMF and i am sure Xavi would do the job better, or you could put Fabregas as a more offensive MF player and i bet Xavi would do a better job. Dont underestimate Xavi
 
rednev said:
Xavi is an all round central midfielder, who can offer a stabilizing role to Barcelona's midfield when the occasion calls for it. Who do you think plays as their DM when Toure isn't playing?

As you seem to like your stats so much, do you have any that would compare the amount of goals Scholes and Fabregas scored from 04/05-08/09 with the amount of games they played? If what you're saying is true, that I imagine it's because Fabregas has played more games. And goals aside, Scholes was, and probably still is, much better at finding space and creating chances than Fabregas is.
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Who then ?
 
rednev said:
Xavi is an all round central midfielder, who can offer a stabilizing role to Barcelona's midfield when the occasion calls for it. Who do you think plays as their DM when Toure isn't playing?

As you seem to like your stats so much, do you have any that would compare the amount of goals Scholes and Fabregas scored from 04/05-08/09 with the amount of games they played? If what you're saying is true, that I imagine it's because Fabregas has played more games. And goals aside, Scholes was, and probably still is, much better at finding space and creating chances than Fabregas is.
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Sergio Busquets and Seydou Keita, never Xavi.

Fabregas has an average of 0.15 goals per game over that period, Scholes has an average 0.175 goals per game. The difference is so small that it doesn't make the difference between being world class and not world class.

Better at creating? Fabregas has more assists in that amount of time too, so no, Scholes isn't more creative.
 
OneUnited24 said:
:nono: IMHO Scholes has started to play much more deeper than before, he has almost accepted that he cannot cover as much ground in his final years so plays deeper and allows his passing range to control the game - Scholes was famed for his late runs into the box something we very rarely see of him.

Also i was saying that Xavi is far better than young Fabregas (hes still only 22 so im not going to say he will never be better than Xavi - in fact i believe Barca had him in their youth team to one day replace Xavi) in almost any position he plays in midfield, never have i seen a more complete midfielder in my life - he tracks back, can tackle when he has too. You could put Fabregas as a DMF and i am sure Xavi would do the job better, or you could put Fabregas as a more offensive MF player and i bet Xavi would do a better job. Dont underestimate Xavi
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Fabregas has never played far forward though, well not until these last two games when he's visibly playing further forward.

He's always sat relatively deep to dictate the play and moved forward with the flow of the game, like Scholes still does. He doesn't make late runs into the box any more but neither does Fabregas.
 
Brwned said:
Sergio Busquets and Seydou Keita, never Xavi.

Fabregas has an average of 0.15 goals per game, Scholes has an average 0.175 goals per game. The difference is so small that it doesn't make the difference between being world class and not world class.

Better at creating? Fabregas has more assists in that amount of time too, so no, Scholes isn't more creative.
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Let me tell you something that might shock you, Asnl play so much one touch two touch to drag people out of positions a lot of those assists are down to a short pass for the guy to finish with a tap in... Also Fabregas is the focal point for their attack - hes the only one that actually bridges the gap between midfield and attack
 
OneUnited24 said:
Let me tell you something that might shock you, Asnl play so much one touch two touch to drag people out of positions a lot of those assists are down to a short pass for the guy to finish with a tap in... Also Fabregas is the focal point for their attack - hes the only one that actually bridges the gap between midfield and attack
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Most of Fabregas' assists are beautifully crafted, and he's been more creative that Scholes over the last 5 years overall.
 
Brwned said:
Fabregas has never played far forward though, well not until these last two games when he's visibly playing further forward.

He's always sat relatively deep to dictate the play and moved forward with the flow of the game, like Scholes still does. He doesn't make late runs into the box any more but neither does Fabregas.
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Not true, why was it during the start of the season Fabregas looked poor? It was because the player who played alongside him covering him as he went too far forward had gone off to AC Milan, Fabregas was great in the Euros and IMO he was playing almost as a SS. In fact the last few games i've seen Asnl play they almost tell who ever is playing with him to stay behind him so Asnl dont get caught out.
 
Brwned said:
Most of Fabregas' assists are beautifully crafted, and he's been more creative that Scholes over the last 5 years overall.
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Again you are comparing a player who had perhaps left his prime up against a player who will be entering his soon. Also last season Scholes was out for 3-4 months, this season he was out for a few months and even the 2005 season he missed the whole of the second half of the season! Perhaps it will be interesting to see the games played stats over the last 4-5 years to see how many more Fabregas has played
 
OneUnited24 said:
Not true, why was it during the start of the season Fabregas looked poor? It was because the player who played alongside him covering him as he went too far forward had gone off to AC Milan, Fabregas was great in the Euros and IMO he was playing almost as a SS. In fact the last few games i've seen Asnl play they almost tell who ever is playing with him to stay behind him so Asnl dont get caught out.
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Why was his start of the season so poor? Tiredness, from the Euro's and a long season when he was fighting for the title with him being the main player in the team for the first time. Plenty of players came back from the Euro's out of form, see Torres, Casillas etc.

OneUnited24 said:
Again you are comparing a player who had perhaps left his prime up against a player who will be entering his soon. Also last season Scholes was out for 3-4 months, this season he was out for a few months and even the 2005 season he missed the whole of the second half of the season! Perhaps it will be interesting to see the games played stats over the last 4-5 years to see how many more Fabregas has played
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Scholes' best ever season was arguably 06/07, so he was in his peak halfway between the period of time I chosen, which is why I thought it was poor.

Fabregas played 30 more games.
 
Brwned said:
Why was his start of the season so poor? Tiredness, from the Euro's and a long season when he was fighting for the title with him being the main player in the team for the first time. Plenty of players came back from the Euro's out of form, see Torres, Casillas etc
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I suppose much could be down to tiredness, but when you look at games it was almost him trying to play a more deeper role but couldnt get into the game so he would play a bit more forward and got caught so he could not get back to help - hes so important to the Asnl team when he doesnt play to his potential Asnl look shit (which is what happened at the start of the season), IMO if Fabregas hasnt got a player behind him to mop up like a proper DMF player he cant cope all too well because he cannot play too far back and still have a say in games he plays. Also Casillas has been excellent this season, and Torres unlucky with injuries.

Brwned said:
Scholes' best ever season was arguably 06/07, so he was in his peak halfway between the period of time I chosen, which is why I thought it was poor.

Fabregas played 30 more games.
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I wouldnt really call his 06/07 the best but it did perhaps mark a dramatic change in how he played. I always thought his 2003 and 2004 seasons were perhaps his best...
 
The German National Team

Not as a collection but when they play for their clubs... other than Klose

Pretty much all the native Germans... and that over-rated cnut Mario Gomez
 
Dippersripper said:
Ramos
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REd FUn DevIl said:
Sergio Ramos
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R.Nilsson7 said:
Sergio Ramos
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Ramos is the most overrated piece of shite ever. His defending is HORRIBLE out of all the RBs in the top flight of world football. I get the feeling everytime someone praises Ramos, it is solely because he plays for Real so 'he must be good'. He puts in decent passes going forward, but his crossing is horrible. His crossing into the box is pure shite. All he does going forward is cut in, and then plays a pass than most 10 year olds can make. His defending is so shite, he is always putting Casillas in trouble for both Real/Spain. For all the goals allowed by Real every season and Spain, Ramos' shite defending is probably 80% of why those goals were scored. Just a shite defender. At this point, with all the top flight experience Ramos has by now, Rafael is even a better defender than him.

MUFC07 said:
It's tough to say, maybe Totti in the latest years.
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dumbo said:
zlatan
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Brad said:
Totti always deserves a mention
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Zlatan and Totti are great players, but nowhere near the "world class" label that many posters give them. They never show up when it matters.
 
Someone mention Robinho but I would disagree with that. He may lack character and he plays for a shit club surrounded mostly by professional "picks up a paycheck" but he's a pretty decent footballer. Put him in the Chelsea first 11 and see what happens.

We should all thank our Arab billionaire backed neighbors that he's wasting away for them.


As far as someone I don’t particularly rate that seems to get good press, Roque Santa Cruz. Every transfer window has Mark Hughes trying to sign him away from Blackburn. Meanwhile he’s setting the EPL on fire this year with 4 goals.
 
Yeesh this is the exact same thread as the "most overrated XI" isn't there anything else to be said beyond the same thread over and over? At least make it different like "United's most overrated XI"--- I'll go ahead and make that one :smirk:
 
davisjw said:
Yeesh this is the exact same thread as the "most overrated XI" isn't there anything else to be said beyond the same thread over and over? At least make it different like "United's most overrated XI"--- I'll go ahead and make that one :smirk:
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That's because there's nobody on our side that gets rated higher than they perform
 
Messi - great player but has done nothing to deserve comparisons with Maradona.
 
Gary Neville

a journeyman pro somehow elevated to iconic status due to the club he plays at

Would'nt look out of place playing full back at Crewe

Think on this - the Nevilles have nearly 150 England caps between them :wenger:

shocking
 
Jopub said:
Gary Neville

a journeyman pro somehow elevated to iconic status due to the club he plays at

Would'nt look out of place playing full back at Crewe

Think on this - the Nevilles have nearly 150 England caps between them :wenger:

shocking
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Wrong, some Utd fans including me thinks he is past it, his defensive skills are rubbish. I would have him as fourth choice behind Brown, Oshea and Rafael, the funny shit is he is the captain so that makes him first name in the team when fit.
 
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