What on earth has Goggs started?!
Gaming PlayStation 4 (Console)
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik (@Rood) is joined by CEO Duncan Drasdo and Financial Director Andy Green from the Manchester United Supporters Trust for a special episode on all things behind the scenes at Old Trafford including a brief history of MUST and their aims today, views on INEOS and Sir Jim Ratcliffe so far, and the Old Trafford regeneration.
What on earth has Goggs started?!
How can you decide already before knowing specifications, games that will be available etc etc
Who's Goggs? Who are you? Where am I?!
Weaste is going to stick his penis in your 'warm sloppy hole' soon enough.
Be scared, be very very scared.
A brave brave soul. You'll need his bravery if you're to survive. Given the recent episode with Goggs Weaste will be vying for blood. Good luck.
Really they should ditch the Cell altogether and go with a more traditional approach ,if only to appease the developers/publishers on that front. People still haven't got completely used to the thing.
They won't though, so hopefully this time it is used more to it's potential.
What's the cost like on these things now Weaste? Is it low enough to access all the 'cores' at a higher clock and still put in a new machine?
They won't though, so hopefully this time it is used more to it's potential.
What's the cost like on these things now Weaste? Is it low enough to access all the 'cores' at a higher clock and still put in a new machine?
I be po' yo!
As I said in post 61, the thing probably needs an OoOE core with reasonable performance. The PPE is a turd, and the XB360 has 3 of them. On the other hand, the SPEs smoke any current CPU at what they are good at, largely down to them having their own local memory and silly bandwidth between them. Some people incorrectly say that GPUs are better for the job, well they are not. GPUs are great for highly parallisable tasks, and are very simple. SPEs are somewhere in the middle. They can act like a normal CPU (yes, you could for example run an OS off one), but they are also quite capable of doing some things that a GPU unit can, especially at their current or higher clock. The thing with the Cell is that is asymmetric, in that the PPE and the SPEs do not have the same ISA. The PPE could be replaced with anything, or complimented by anything. It's not an issue. Toshiba with their SPURS Engine had a little unit four SPEs and no PPE at all.
For that crazy question as to how Cell stands up to an i7, well, it's one hell of a lot smaller for a start, seriously smaller, but in terms of raw horsepower can still stack up. Running Windows and Office? Hell no! It was never designed to do that.
As to your final question, Cell BE (the 1 PPE, 8 SPE thing), it's very cheap and very small, and it's scalable.
It's quite clear in my mind what is going on:
I don't think that Sony are going away, they're still nuts. Have you read this interview with the bloke that replaced Kutaragi?
Future games machines to read your emotions - E & T Magazine
Interview: Masaaki Tsuruta, Sony Computer Entertainment - E & T Magazine
Sony – Masaaki Tsuruta Interview : Media & Entertainment Technology
There's so much to gleam out of that, but this bit stands out (forget the 4000p shite).
The DSP is clearly the SPEs. Toshiba have already stacked the SPURS engine on top of a multi-core ARM die.
Roadrunner had x86 chips in it for a reason. They are shit at what Cell is good at, but good at what Cell is shit at. It could mean many things, but my guess it a SoC with x86 CPU and a GPU on the same die, with an improved Cell hanging off that running the show. I don't think that they will integrate the Cell within the SoC as it will be used across all of Sony's devices when it no longer needs any active cooling - one of the reasons it hasn't already been fused with RSX. They just need to improve the FlexIO such that Cell can get at the VRAM as easily as RSX can now get at the XDR. Another option is to replace the PPE with an x86 set of cores, or maybe a POWER7 derived set of cores. You can hang the SPE system of anything.
You only have to have a quick google search to see the idiots comparing various i7s to the cell in the PS3. Thankfully you always seem to get one guy on there who knows what he is talking about and normall y just points out what I said earlier in this thread - comparing them is utterly pointless.
One thing you've got to love about Sony, is they do hire utter fruitloops to oversee these things with grand dreams and magical claims. As I've said all along, you have to admire what they try to achieve every generation and how they try to push architecture on. It's just a shame they lapse on the software side and cause endless headaches for developers.
A more traditional set up combined with the knowledge base on the Cell now, might just be enough for them to finally move forward and stop slumming it with whatever "throw shit at it and see what sticks" box M$ come up with this time. Then again is there any point, since the main theme these days is the same across the board, no matter the system attitude of publishers and their pet in house development teams.
One thing you've got to love about Sony, is they do hire utter fruitloops to oversee these things with grand dreams and magical claims. As I've said all along, you have to admire what they try to achieve every generation and how they try to push architecture on. It's just a shame they lapse on the software side and cause endless headaches for developers.
A more traditional set up combined with the knowledge base on the Cell now, might just be enough for them to finally move forward and stop slumming it with whatever "throw shit at it and see what sticks" box M$ come up with this time. Then again is there any point, since the main theme these days is the same across the board, no matter the system attitude of publishers and their pet in house development teams.
Am I right in saying that GTA 4 got delayed for a few months because there were problems creating the PS3 version?
There is no problem with the PS3 architecture as such if that's what you focus on, however, if you design and engineer your stuff in a traditional manner to hit traditional architectures such as PC or XB360, and then try to run it on the PS3, it will fall on its arse. Developers 6 years ago were very, and I mean very, weary of getting into what Cell was proposing due to serious lack of knowledge on how to do things in the way that it demands. Nowadays however, they see things differently, as everything is multi-core, and parallelism is becoming not some oddball thing done on mainframes, but something that every application should think about. The crazy thing is, if the developers had focused on the PS3 version as the lead, the PC and XB360 versions would also have been better off for it. Do Naughty Dog have problems getting performance out of the machine? Of course not.
Isn't that why EA have moved over to the PS3 for their game development?
Ask yourself a simple question here, and you will get a very simple answer. Why did IBM use AMD CPUs in Roadrunner? Still ther 10th most powerfull supercomputer on the planet, and using 6000 Opterons and 12000 Cells (2 Cell blades per 1 AMD Opteron). Unfortunately the Opterons feck the power per watt over. Cell is very "green".
Anyway, it's not the point at hand, a 4 PPE (this will be replaced) 32 SPE Cell will hit a Teraflop, and do so with far less silicon than Intel's Teraflop chip.
Nobody is ditching the SPEs of the Cell BE, what is being ditched is the PPE.
http://www.computerandvideogames.com/341824/ps4-is-called-orbis-launching-late-2013-report/
Anti-used game measures would be no suprise but it would be a shit move from Sony to stop the second-hand games market. Also, locking games to a PSN account is a really cnutish idea, I often borrow or lend game to friends and that would no longer be possible if the rumours in the article are true.
No backwards compatibility to PS3 games would be a poor choice.
It's bullshit!
Same stupid rumours were banded around before PS3 was released....
http://www.joystiq.com/2005/11/08/playstation-3-wont-play-used-games/
http://kotaku.com/176131/no-second-hand-ps3-market
http://www.joystiq.com/2005/11/08/playstation-3-wont-play-used-games/
http://kotaku.com/176131/no-second-hand-ps3-market
Needing internet access to boot up a game is total bullshit. What if you do something as simple as bring your console to a friends house, and they don't have broadband?
It's not going to happen! Ignore such things. This time in a console generation lifespan is troll heaven.
It's the same with the x86 stuff. It's possible that some x86 component could end up in it as I've alluded to before, but there is zero chance of the whole box CPU side being exclusively x86 based. It makes no sense on so many levels.
As for the internet thing, people said the same thing about Half Life 2. My friend bought the game, had no internet and couldn't take it back until he pretended that the disc he bought had been scratched. Lots and lots of people where pissed off with the Half Life 2 disgusting DRM.
And now its the fantastic service that is steam.
Even if you friend doesn't have internet, you could activate the game at home and then take the ps4 round to their house.
And now its the fantastic service that is steam.
Even if you friend doesn't have internet, you could activate the game at home and then take the ps4 round to their house.
If its true (I'd be inclined to believe Weaste that its bs), I'll never buy the thing. No backwards compatibility so they can sell a classics collection, essentially an online pass to unlock full games? feck that shit, there's so many good games on the current gen I haven't had time to play, I'll be set for years just catching up. The way the video game industry is going sucks.
Lets hope so. Killing off the second hand trade for video games will be the death of Sony and Microsoft's console division.
Most people these days buy a game, play through it and then trade it for store credit and then use that to buy another game and so the cycle goes on and on.
If they proceed with this, video game prices will need to fall by £10 to £15 to compensate for the fact that games have no resale value.
Millions and millions of others just like you (and me) will feel exactly the same as this.
Consumers will only be screwed over for so long before they say "feck off".
Steam has ruined Football Manager.
There is no sense going for x86 or x64, it doesn't bring anything to the table other than fabbing on a particular node and a strong well known easy to program for ISA. It's a dying archaic bloat ridden architecture. It can't even have anything to do with backwards compatibility in the future, as this next set of dedicated gaming consoles will probably be the penultimate or even the last.
Because it updates automatically and you lose your game saves?
Hopefully the AMD CPU will be better than there recent consumer CPUs they've put out....
From IGN.
I'd say overall PS3 was a disappointment for me in respect to my hopes whilst having a PS2, I doubt I will purchase a PS4 until a year or two since it's been out. All I can say is, please God let us have GTAV on this gen. I'm fairly sure it will be, but .. please God.
The ps3 was a disappointment for me, I pretty much hated all the early games. They all had horrific loading times, but many had specific failings as well. Motorstorm was ruined by its lack of split screen, I couldn't see what all the fuss was about with CoD 3 at all, not a massive fan of Army of Two, I hoped Unreal Tournament 3 would be the time-splitters of ps3 but it didn't have split screen, GT5 Prologue was a bit bland, Time-Crisis 4 was pretty rubbish, GTA 4 was awful (sorry to those who love it but I hated every second of it, and I loved the previous 3), which takes us to mid 2008 and the point I basically gave up on my ps3.
The mistake was not getting The Orange Box and Modern Warfare when they came out.
Years later and I can't stop playing it.
The mistake was not getting The Orange Box and Modern Warfare when they came out.
Years later and I can't stop playing it.
I didn't get mine until 2009, so I love it.
Maybe a future revision of this?
This would make sense in regards to moving towards AMD and away from IBM. Maybe it's all been misread that Sony wants to use AMD because of x86, most likely not, rather they want a future proof revisable SOC. A cheap off the shelf CPU line as a foundation that they can modify a bit as time goes on.
Going back to that quote I posted earlier
Is becoming clearer. In the 3rd party IP space they can place the SPEs (read DSPs and whatever else) space allowing. Programmable logic? FPGA? GPU on die, can be used for highly parallelisable jobs or graphics work. Something has to go in there to deal with the PS3 SPEs if they want backward compatibility. Interesting!
Cell block diagram
And feck it up a little with a bit of wild speculation
I'm sure this is all very technical and impressive, but to me it just looks like a sequel to the 400m transfer kitty in 5 years graph.I'm trolling
But.....
Runs Windows - Check
Runs Android - Check
Runs Mac Os - Check
Runs Linux - Check
Runs PS4 OS - Check
There's a wide variety of uses such a chip could be put to, and Sony could probably get it dirt cheap if the also allowed AMD to sell the APU only part to other hardware vendors for specific purposes. x86 and x64 traditionally poor with SIMD, GPGPU very good only for highly parallelisable tasks, poor with generic and highly branchy code, SPEs a half way house, especially with increased LSs. Sony own the SPE and EIB parts of the Cell BE, not IBM, and can allow AMD licensed use of it in exchange, as IBM used it in some of their products. IBM owned the PPE part, which they used in the XB360 CPU.
Sony have to much invested in the Cell BE IMO. They can't simply chuck it in the bin and start from scratch as it's impossible to emulate and would also mean throwing away masses of R&D into development tools that most developers are now finally fairly comfortable with. So this is one possible solution, otherwise why go to AMD instead of back to IBM? Expertise with the SOC concept is the only thing I can see. With such a design Sony get a measure of BC with the PS3 without too much work, all the PS3 tools remain relevant, yet this can run PC code- 3rd party developers if they so wish could just simply straight port their games to the PS4 and have them run without too much optimisation work, but if they wanted to give it a bit of welly, then they have the PS4 unique components to work as accelerators for different tasks that the x86 cores are not suited to - the PS Cores for certain jobs the x86 and GPU cores are not suited to and the GPU cores for others that neither the x86 core of the PS Cores are suited to or giving a helping hand to the discrete GPU or possibly rendering for a second screen such as the PS Vita or a Wii U type controller.
Take it all with a pinch of salt though, as I said, I'm just trolling.
But.....
Runs Windows - Check
Runs Android - Check
Runs Mac Os - Check
Runs Linux - Check
Runs PS4 OS - Check
There's a wide variety of uses such a chip could be put to, and Sony could probably get it dirt cheap if the also allowed AMD to sell the APU only part to other hardware vendors for specific purposes. x86 and x64 traditionally poor with SIMD, GPGPU very good only for highly parallelisable tasks, poor with generic and highly branchy code, SPEs a half way house, especially with increased LSs. Sony own the SPE and EIB parts of the Cell BE, not IBM, and can allow AMD licensed use of it in exchange, as IBM used it in some of their products. IBM owned the PPE part, which they used in the XB360 CPU.
Sony have to much invested in the Cell BE IMO. They can't simply chuck it in the bin and start from scratch as it's impossible to emulate and would also mean throwing away masses of R&D into development tools that most developers are now finally fairly comfortable with. So this is one possible solution, otherwise why go to AMD instead of back to IBM? Expertise with the SOC concept is the only thing I can see. With such a design Sony get a measure of BC with the PS3 without too much work, all the PS3 tools remain relevant, yet this can run PC code- 3rd party developers if they so wish could just simply straight port their games to the PS4 and have them run without too much optimisation work, but if they wanted to give it a bit of welly, then they have the PS4 unique components to work as accelerators for different tasks that the x86 cores are not suited to - the PS Cores for certain jobs the x86 and GPU cores are not suited to and the GPU cores for others that neither the x86 core of the PS Cores are suited to or giving a helping hand to the discrete GPU or possibly rendering for a second screen such as the PS Vita or a Wii U type controller.
Take it all with a pinch of salt though, as I said, I'm just trolling.
Hey Lambs, what are you hearing on the grapevine, has it got a Cell in it?
Apparently it'll look like this..
And the controller will split in two to create a Move stick, like this..
So says the all knowing, never unreliable internetz.
And the controller will split in two to create a Move stick, like this..
So says the all knowing, never unreliable internetz.
You username is apt.
Fantasy mock-ups.
Fantasy mock-ups.
Pictures I found searching for 30 seconds on the internet don't lie Weaste. Even Phillip Schofield knows that.
Lambs is keeping his lips very tight I see!