Poch as Manager, Ole as Director of Football

All those silly combinations. Ole is a manager not a DoF, why would he want to be a DoF?
 
Murder on Zidane's Floor said:
I understand people saying Ole isn't a DOF. Can someone actually tell me, ideally without a Google, what a DOF actually does?
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It’s the footballing equivalent of an operations manager/ service delivery manager

To me it’s always been another level just to keep responsibility for results away from a CEO.
 
Murder on Zidane's Floor said:
I understand people saying Ole isn't a DOF. Can someone actually tell me, ideally without a Google, what a DOF actually does?
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There's no single definition for what a DOF does. It depends on the particular club and its structure.

For instance, Manchester United don't need a DOF who has links to agents or football chairmen or somebody with great negotiating skills. We already have Woodward who's one of the best in the world at those things.

What we do need is a DOF that does all the necessary fooball philosophy stuff that takes place away from the training ground/football pitch. Ole is more than qualified to set the direction of the club, to liaise with Woodward on relative player values, and to veto/greenlight transfer targets.

Think about what Gill and Fergie used to do between them. Woodward is supposed to cover Gill's old responsibilities and the managers is supposed to do what SAF used to do. The problem is that Woody doesn't have the necessary football nouse and no current manager has the overarching longterm vision of SAF.

The future solution appears to be to split the roles of Gill and Ferguson between 3 different people. Keep Woodward, employ a head coach, and bring in a middle man as DOF who does all the things neither of the other two specialise in.

It's impossible to give an exact job description. We can only guess was the board is happy/unhappy with within the current setup. There's no reason why Ole can't be that man. Experience is overrated in this instance.
 
We have had a novice DOF for the last 5, coming up for 6 years and look how that turned out. We're Man Utd one of the biggest clubs in the world and really we should be going out for the best DOF we can get. Whether he's the best or 20th best in the world, its still going to be a major step up from Woody.
 
I have to question Poch's decision making yesterday. Tottenham was up 6-0 with Llorente scoring 2 goals and he takes him off in the 75th minute for Kane??? Why put your star at risk? Especially when Llorente is on a hat trick and barely ever gets to play???
 
the two roles share almost no skills between each other, being a decent coach has nothing to do with being a great DoF (which is what we need)...


This sounds like fantasy league
 
First just one game, we made a thread of Ole as our permanent manager.

Second now we are making a thread of Ole as our DOF.

What’s next? Ole is going to be our owner buying Manchester United from the Glazers?

Having discussions is nice but let’s not being silly, enjoy the football and let Ole prove himself what he’s capable of.
 
I'm sorry I'll make this point again but in capitals.

YOU CANNOT HAVE OLE AND POCH.

I'M VERY SORRY.
 
SadlerMUFC said:
I have to question Poch's decision making yesterday. Tottenham was up 6-0 with Llorente scoring 2 goals and he takes him off in the 75th minute for Kane??? Why put your star at risk? Especially when Llorente is on a hat trick and barely ever gets to play???
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Llorente scored 3.
 
No. There is no room for both of them. And why would ole after this managerial stint want to go upstairs? Where's the logic in that?
 
BAMSOLA said:
I think some of our supporters need educating on what a director of football actually does.

This is about the third time somebody has come up with a silly (I'd like to say stupid but I'm trying not to be too offensive) opinion on who should fill the post.

utter nonsense.
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Well Schmiechel is thinking about the position so naturally people will start mentioning random legends. What experience does Schmiechel have? Is he deluded to think he can handle it?
 
Gopher Brown said:
The same place normal careers develop?

Prove yourself at a smaller company and work your way up to the top. We are a billion pound organisation, you can’t appoint a novice to this suddenly incredibly important job.
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Where do you get experience to be a dof at a smaller club? Don’t they want experience too?
 
If poch ends up going here Ole should definitely not stay. Maybe Tottenham would want him? That would be a nerve wrecking next season
 
Mr PG said:
Where do you get experience to be a dof at a smaller club? Don’t they want experience too?
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Yes, but smaller clubs can afford to take risks on employing people more than us. That’s why we don’t just get any old manager to be our manager.

You’re basically saying that a guy in the frame to be DoF at Newport County is qualified to be DoF at Man Utd. Like in any other industry, you work your way up either internally, or by starting at lesser companies, proving you’ve got the skills to transfer to a better job and taking it from there.

We shouldn’t be employing someone as DoF just cos he’s a nice guy, or played for us at some point, we should be employing the most qualified, highly skilled and compatible person we can.
 
Dante said:
There's no single definition for what a DOF does. It depends on the particular club and its structure.

For instance, Manchester United don't need a DOF who has links to agents or football chairmen or somebody with great negotiating skills. We already have Woodward who's one of the best in the world at those things.

What we do need is a DOF that does all the necessary fooball philosophy stuff that takes place away from the training ground/football pitch. Ole is more than qualified to set the direction of the club, to liaise with Woodward on relative player values, and to veto/greenlight transfer targets.

Think about what Gill and Fergie used to do between them. Woodward is supposed to cover Gill's old responsibilities and the managers is supposed to do what SAF used to do. The problem is that Woody doesn't have the necessary football nouse and no current manager has the overarching longterm vision of SAF.

The future solution appears to be to split the roles of Gill and Ferguson between 3 different people. Keep Woodward, employ a head coach, and bring in a middle man as DOF who does all the things neither of the other two specialise in.

It's impossible to give an exact job description. We can only guess was the board is happy/unhappy with within the current setup. There's no reason why Ole can't be that man. Experience is overrated in this instance.
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I disagree. I think that is one of the key requirements for the role. Under Woodward, United have always seemed very naive in negotiations with most of the deals being facilitated through agents like Raiola, the manager's contacts or just by paying over the odds.

The key component of this Director of Football role for me is to manage the playing squad. In conjunction with the manager, scouts and Woodward, manage the squad from new signings to contract renewals and promotion of players from the academy to the first team squad.

For new signings, use contacts to identify players who are available, unsettled or are in favourable contractual situations. Most importantly, ensure they have the quality, character and style of play that fits the profile of a United player.
 
its a romantic idea I know but its clear to me the DoF should be someone who understands the club - the DoF is the individual who ensures the footballing side of the club reflects our identify as a club - that affects things like appointments, style of play, coaching, youth development, transfers

Ole doesn't have DoF experience but he understands the club, he's experienced and delivered a good style of play, he's worked and develop young players and managed our youth team previously, he's had experience of transfers and working with agents - he's someone who I think would dedicate himself to the job - him or a similar character anyway

this thread was very speculative based on Poch getting the job but with a desire to underpin the United traditions with a DoF who will make sure we have someone who understands how Manchester United should play and be run rather than the Van Gaal/Mourinho style of play (ridiculous in hindsight) and Woodward and his arrogant nonsense that turned Klopp off the job - in the past Woodward has relied on people like Jorge Mendes and Raiola to deliver names rather than players who fit a cohesive system of play.

the thing that irks me is that some have suggested DoFs who've done well at clubs like Sevilla or Atletico Madrid - teams who've bought and produced well but are completely different clubs in terms of scale, culture and especially in Atletico's case - someone like Monchi is highly regarded - his speciality seems to be doing well at medium sized clubs, buying low and selling high at clubs with decent styles of Football- 2 of those don't apply to United really given the nature of our club - maybe he could adapt, maybe a character like Ole could adapt

Zorc at Dortmund has done great - he retired as a player in 96 - he was sporting director in 98 - what experience did he gain in those two years or is he just a clever individual who loves his club?

the reality is Ole is a manager and I doubt he'd want to be a DoF. At the end of this season he will either be United manager or he could be sought after by other clubs if things go well. My point is I'd have someone who really understands the club in the role as as an essential criteria.
 
buckooo1978 said:
its a romantic idea I know but its clear to me the DoF should be someone who understands the club - the DoF is the individual who ensures the footballing side of the club reflects our identify as a club - that affects things like appointments, style of play, coaching, youth development, transfers

Ole doesn't have DoF experience but he understands the club, he's experienced and delivered a good style of play, he's worked and develop young players and managed our youth team previously, he's had experience of transfers and working with agents - he's someone who I think would dedicate himself to the job - him or a similar character anyway

this thread was very speculative based on Poch getting the job but with a desire to underpin the United traditions with a DoF who will make sure we have someone who understands how Manchester United should play and be run rather than the Van Gaal/Mourinho style of play (ridiculous in hindsight) and Woodward and his arrogant nonsense that turned Klopp off the job - in the past Woodward has relied on people like Jorge Mendes and Raiola to deliver names rather than players who fit a cohesive system of play.

the thing that irks me is that some have suggested DoFs who've done well at clubs like Sevilla or Atletico Madrid - teams who've bought and produced well but are completely different clubs in terms of scale, culture and especially in Atletico's case - someone like Monchi is highly regarded - his speciality seems to be doing well at medium sized clubs, buying low and selling high at clubs with decent styles of Football- 2 of those don't apply to United really given the nature of our club - maybe he could adapt, maybe a character like Ole could adapt

Zorc at Dortmund has done great - he retired as a player in 96 - he was sporting director in 98 - what experience did he gain in those two years or is he just a clever individual who loves his club?

the reality is Ole is a manager and I doubt he'd want to be a DoF. At the end of this season he will either be United manager or he could be sought after by other clubs if things go well. My point is I'd have someone who really understands the club in the role as as an essential criteria.
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A new man doesn’t need to understand the “club”. The new man just needs to share the same ethos as the club and be damn good at what he does.
 
red thru&thru said:
A new man doesn’t need to understand the “club”. The new man just needs to share the same ethos as the club and be damn good at what he does.
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sharing the ethos is what I mean by understanding the club

the question is does the board understand the ethos? they are the ones to make the biggest decision in our recent history
 
buckooo1978 said:
sharing the ethos is what I mean by understanding the club

the question is does the board understand the ethos? they are the ones to make the biggest decision in our recent history
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Yes, I think the board do understand. I have wrote chapter and verse previously, about how the board got things wrong, however, their intentions were the correct ones. Also hindsight is a wonderful thing. Another clear indicator to as why thw board know our ethos, the short term recruitment of Ole and Phelan, whilst not getting rid of Carrick and McKenna.
 
red thru&thru said:
Yes, I think the board do understand. I have wrote chapter and verse previously, about how the board got things wrong, however, their intentions were the correct ones. Also hindsight is a wonderful thing. Another clear indicator to as why thw board know our ethos, the short term recruitment of Ole and Phelan, whilst not getting rid of Carrick and McKenna.
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I agree the signs are good in announcing the need for a DoF and the hiring of Ole/Phelan

this is still a board where all the decision makers are bankers and corporate big wigs..... how do they even make decisions? do they refer to outsiders for expert advice? this is still a board who extended Jose's contract, sanctioned a huge move for Sanchez disrupting the team and wage structure, paid 52 million (hugely overpaid some who've watched him extensively would say) for Fred with no clear idea of how to use him in the last 12 months
 
buckooo1978 said:
I agree the signs are good in announcing the need for a DoF and the hiring of Ole/Phelan

this is still a board where all the decision makers are bankers and corporate big wigs..... how do they even make decisions? do they refer to outsiders for expert advice? this is still a board who extended Jose's contract, sanctioned a huge move for Sanchez disrupting the team and wage structure, paid 52 million (hugely overpaid some who've watched him extensively would say) for Fred with no clear idea of how to use him in the last 12 months
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“Footballing people” make plenty of mistakes. The key is learning from them. So if they are going to place a structure where the “footballing people” look after the football and the business looks after the business, then there’s no problems.

But if Ed does go down the route of Ole as manager, then we might not be as progressive as we should be.
 
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