Who exactly is going to be coaching this pressing?
Pogba
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik (@Rood) is joined by CEO Duncan Drasdo and Financial Director Andy Green from the Manchester United Supporters Trust for a special episode on all things behind the scenes at Old Trafford including a brief history of MUST and their aims today, views on INEOS and Sir Jim Ratcliffe so far, and the Old Trafford regeneration.
Me. I have sent my CV and Fletcher thinks I'm the right candidate. Just waiting for the work permit.
At this stage after 8 years and 2 spells at the club you could almost teach a university course on the pros and cons and how to maximise and compensate for Pogba. Also second time around with the guessing game with the agent and the negative comments in the press.
For us Bruno is just plug and play and I like that. Football doesn’t need to be rocket science where there’s always someone else to blame for the limitations of others games. The real question is what works best with what we currently have and we are likely to have next season? Then you have your answer. You’re fighting an argument that’s impossible to resolve if you’re always relying on the hypothetical to arrive at a positive outcome.
On the left, in Bruno’s spot or in a midfield 3 is where he can be good for us. In 2 of those 3 formations Bruno misses out.
Lastly. Why did we sign Bruno? Because Pogba wanted to leave. It all comes back around to him just not being a good fit. It seems Pogba realised it a lot quicker than most fans. The problem for Pogba is that we've never even got a remotely serious bid for him in the time he’s been here and I’m sure he knows that himself. We’d probably have sold if we did.
For us Bruno is just plug and play and I like that. Football doesn’t need to be rocket science where there’s always someone else to blame for the limitations of others games. The real question is what works best with what we currently have and we are likely to have next season? Then you have your answer. You’re fighting an argument that’s impossible to resolve if you’re always relying on the hypothetical to arrive at a positive outcome.
On the left, in Bruno’s spot or in a midfield 3 is where he can be good for us. In 2 of those 3 formations Bruno misses out.
Lastly. Why did we sign Bruno? Because Pogba wanted to leave. It all comes back around to him just not being a good fit. It seems Pogba realised it a lot quicker than most fans. The problem for Pogba is that we've never even got a remotely serious bid for him in the time he’s been here and I’m sure he knows that himself. We’d probably have sold if we did.
Can his price be any higher with 1 year left? I hope we are listening to all offers at this point. I'd love for him to stay, but this tourney just highlights to me how he plays amazing when he cares....and he just does not care about United as much as France, and that's too bad. Maybe PSG and their champions league games would be the best fit?
Hi my name is Darren Fletcher. Let's do the job interview now.
I never seen Pogba plays with another attacking mid type in 433, so how can 4-3-3 be played with Bruno, Pogba?
The issue with this is football is broke, there isn't a worse time to cash in.
It was done before by other AMs, it can be done again. As usual we don't have right coaches for that.
But it was never done with Pogba's type of player, so how can 433 be played with Bruno, Pogba? How can you have Pogba who admitted himself he's not good in defending and lot of pundits have mentioned the lack of discipline in him and somehow you expect Pogba and Bruno in midfield 3 to defend as a team?
I never saw David Silva championing himself as a great defensive player, still he played alongside KdB in 4-1-4-1 or 4-3-3 with Pep in charge. That's what I said, you need good coach to implement that. David Silva never played in 4-3-3 alongside other attacking mid before too and Pogba is better defender than Silva. Same with KdB, he never played in 4-3-3 alongside attacking mid like David Silva but Pep pulled it off.
If he really wants to play elsewhere, of course he will have options next summer. But the clock is ticking on his career and if the club go into the new season knowing he's off on a free next summer, logically the only sensible move forward is to use him as a squad player and build around others.
Given the bravado of Raiola, it's strange there hasn't been at least one confirmed offer during his time here.
He's an outstanding talent, but the same questions persists plus the big one, can Ole and his staff fit him and Bruno into an effective and balanced XI?
Given the bravado of Raiola, it's strange there hasn't been at least one confirmed offer during his time here.
He's an outstanding talent, but the same questions persists plus the big one, can Ole and his staff fit him and Bruno into an effective and balanced XI?
It looks to me you have no clue about Pogba's strength and weakness. Silva is discipline, Pogba is not. Silva and Pogba play differently.
So how can another coach who is not Pep implement Pogba's type of midfielder who is different to Silva in 433 with Bruno?
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It looks to me you have no clue but just argue for the sake of it.
It will be very important and risky call to bench him. We should play our best team most weeks, if he leaves on free transfer then fine, we should plan to get the best out of him.
If he doesn't sign new contract then hopefully we will sell him for decent price.
For me, him signing new contract, sell him if he doesn't sign new contract, play him and then let him go for free is the order of action.
Pogba has always maintained that his best role is that of a box-to-box midfielder, so I struggle to see why he cannot be paired with a defensive-minded midfielder - whose sole purpose is to protect the back four - behind Bruno in his favoured role at CAM. Something like this:
DDG
AWB Varane Maguire Shaw
Pogba Mctominay/Fred
Sancho Bruno Rashford
Cavani
(I'm taking liberties including Varane and Sancho, but I'm confident they will both sign at some point this summer)AWB Varane Maguire Shaw
Pogba Mctominay/Fred
Sancho Bruno Rashford
Cavani
There is a major weakness in that team, one that is so blindingly obvious it doesn't even need pointing out. So yeah, replacing Mctom and Fred with a DM of equal standard to N'zonzi, Martinez or Kante should, finally, free up Pogba and allow him to concentrate on his own strengths rather than the shortcomings of the team - or rather the shortcomings of his midfield partner/s.
tldr;
Upgrading our defensive midfield options will free Pogba.
If you are so full of knowledge while I'm clueless why don't you educate me and explain tactically to me how this works then? Your discussion is so basic because you assume Pogba and Silva have same weakness and strength with no evidence. I have a good intention to know how this works but you fail to give proper explanation but lazy assumption.
I think people are overstating just how good the DM needs to be, but of course Manchester United should be getting top players for every position so this scenario should not change that ethos.
I disagree with this notion the reason Silva is seen as a disciplined player is because he was nurtured / instructed by Pep tactically to play with KDB, he showed little competence of this at Valencia having played behind the striker or on the inside left flank.
Pogba has successfully played in a midfield three on the left at both Juventus and also when Ole first came alongside Matic / Herrera for the opening 15 or so games which he exemplified fantastic form.
The biggest question mark for a 3 man midfield at United is not Pogba but actually the lack of available defensive midfielder seconded by the unknown contribution of Bruno.
Yeah anyone who can shield the back four and is good at intercepting the ball is enough, he doesnt even have to play hollywood passes, just simple and safe ones are enough as long as Pogba and Bruno do their job. Matic a few years ago would be a good candidate but he has lost his legs.
This is where the some are divided, personally I still think he offers more benefits than weaknesses/negatives in a midfield 2, especially when partnered with a top DM.
I appreciate and actually loathe the fact we still haven’t got that DM and are unlikely to get one this summer. What infuriates me is we spent almost his entire United career without sorting this obvious requirement out.
To me it was obvious from the outset what we would need to do in order to get the best from Pogba in a midfield 2. We took a half arsed attempt at it by signing an old Matic (neither Scott or Fred are true DM’s, as we’ve eluded to.)
I don’t think we can throw our toys out of the pram over the way Pogba has played since arriving back at United too much for this reason, in addition to that, when I think of Pogba I don’t think ‘DM’ I instead think of his unique attributes in midfield and how we’ve wasted such an opportunity to unlock them like a Madrid or Bayern or even City would have (imagine him with Fernandinho or Casemiro beside him for example.)
Silva is considered more discipline because he doesn't give the ball away cheaply compare to Pogba. He can keep the ball much better than Pogba does. His awareness and ball retention are better.
Pogba has successfully played in a midfield three when he has non advanced midfielder like Herrera or Vidal not Bruno. The question that I have asked is not how Pogba can play in midfield three but how both Bruno and Pogba can play together in midfield three which something never be proven with Pogba. He has weaknesses that limit us to play the system.
Care to elaborate on this? I know Bruno is not secure with his passing, but he does put a shift in, defensively.
They both provide a good deal more than that. But I agree they're not an adequate top pairing. We either need a better defensively inclined sitting midfielder than McT to go with Pogba, or a better allrounder to go with Fred.
Everyone pretty much agrees that an upgrade at Dm would be helpful, but we have no evidence Pogba has the discipline to play in a midfield on a regular basis. Yes he has done it for France on occasion, most notably the last world cup, but that's a few games in a tournament, he has never shown he could function in a midfield 2 either at United or Juve and he is 28. Even last night when Pogba was playing alongside the best defensive midfielder in the world over the past decade against an average Swiz team and, his lack of discipline left huge gaps and made Xhaka look like Pirlo.
We also have to expect the chances of us signing a DM of even close to Kante's level is really unlikely, first because they are few and between, secondly because the club has lost in the region of 200 million of the last 18 months spending the money to buy Sancho, Varane a DM and signing Pogba to a mega-deal would be more than a little reckless!
In fairness, it isn't that easy to find a great defensive midfielder. But yes considering all the money we have spent in the bost Fergie era you would have thought we would have bought 1 decent 1.
I still think we have seen more evidence that Pogba struggles in a midfield 2 than is suited to the position. Were talking about a 28-year-old who has never shown he could play that position at club level and either united or Juve.
But I agree Pogba does have that unique ability to unlock other teams. The problem has always been his consistency and how you fit him into a team. Thats still the problem now.
Are we back to "We are not using Pogba effectively" or "What is Pogba's best position" discussion?
Has that discussion ever stopped?
Didn't work for France. Midfield was poor basically every game in the Euros.
No but most here found it utterly pointless ages ago I think.
It's exactly the same after the last WC, nothing new and imo it would be the same old same old Pogba and his same old same old perfomances this season. Then by Jan he'll be able to talk to clubs.
I was hoping that after all these years, at least the people who are Pogba-in know an answer to it.
I think it comes back to making the most of the assets you have at your disposal, that in essence is what building a team is about.
I hate when people say ‘we shouldn’t have to build a team around x player’ (usually Pogba) - why?
Why break the club record on what is ultimately an investment yet not do the necessary required to make the most of that asset.
I get world class DM’s are hard to come by, but again I don’t think, for the majority of games he needs to be partnered with peak Kante. We need a destroyer with real legs about them who can protect the back four.
Sure he will give the ball away here and there but again I think whilst that’s an issue, just how much of an issue is it?
Is he worse than Scott at giving the ball away?
Worse than Fred?
Whilst you know he capable of being our most productive player, wasn’t that long ago he finished a season top scorer and assist provider.
I think it’s our responsibility to asses what’s required to dovetail with such a signing and have the pockets to facilitate it.
If he was so questionable in a midfield 2 prior to his return (I don’t think he was tbh as he was in a midfield 3 at Juve and won a World Cup with France in that position practically leading the team) - then why are we here playing McFred with old man Matic putting his feet up?
I know he could be better defensively, but if he were some sort of Kante-Gullit-Zidane hybrid (that doesn’t exist) then he probably wouldn’t be playing here anyways… he’d be one of the best players on earth.
Eh.. it honestly doesn't matter that much anymore what his position is if he's running down his contract and will leave next year anyway. It looks to me he's planning this with his agent already. Till he extends his contract we can talk about his "position", otherwise I won't give a shit about a player who's about to leave.
Bruno is not a way better player than Pogba. What he is is more important to the team. You sign Pogba when he's the final piece of the puzzle, icing on the cake if you like but you sign players like Bruno when a team needs to get down to the nitty gritty. Pogba never has been and never will be that type of player.
I don't think he will play much for Utd. between September and December, strong rumours he has been signed up for the next series of Strictly Come Dancing on BBC1.
I heard he'll be on the Mrs Brown's Boys Christmas Special.
Is this supposed to be great banter?
That's nice....
Pretty much and round and round the carousel goes.
Q. 20-25 years ago two man central midfields were all the vogue ala Keane and Scholes, Vieira and Petitt etc in 442. If Pogba was around back then where would he have played?
I would guess a wide left midfielder in a 442.
Thoughts?
I would guess a wide left midfielder in a 442.
Thoughts?
That thread last night was hilarious. In the space of 20 minutes it went from Pogba being a genius to Pogba being his usual self. 
Surely has to be in the running for thread of the year.
Surely has to be in the running for thread of the year.