doesn’t play to our strengths. Could do it on occasion, although I doubt it would be AWB as part of the 3, more likely Lindelof, then McT.
Pogba
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doesn’t play to our strengths. Could do it on occasion, although I doubt it would be AWB as part of the 3, more likely Lindelof, then McT.
I thought there was talk of AWB being converted not long ago? Unless it was just silly rumours..
Silly rumours surely. AWB as a CB is a nightmarish thought
What if we trialled Bruno as a 9 during pre season for when Cavani was tired and Pogba in the 10?
think it was just a silly rumour. For me, he doesn’t have the right attributes. Think he can be a terrific fullback in a couple of years time, he’s already a good one.
If we get an injury crisis of strikers I think the likeliest would be:
Striker
Pogba Bruno Sancho
Pogba Bruno Sancho
With the striker being whoever of Rashford, Greenwood, Martial or Cavani are available.
Bissaka’s poor positioning is big problem. Lindelof would be better if it’s 3 at the back and offers more on the ball than bissaka. But I see 4 at the back formation under Ole.
Would never disrespect Modric. One of my favorite all time players. My point is *we’re not that far off*. Just need a better CDM that doesn’t lose the ball (like Fred) and is better than Fred at spraying passes around. Agree, he and Kroos hardly ever lose the ball. But both Pogba and Bruno need a safety valve. McFred doesn’t provide that.
I've been thinking for a long time that experimenting with Bruno as a false 9 wouldn't be a bad idea. We are well stacked with wide forwards now so we could make such a system work.
Neither Iniesta nor Zidane lost the ball as frequently as Pogba. Agree that Modric and Kroos have better defensive work rates, but Pogba has show with France that his work rate is actually not terrible. Times last season he looked good too. My point is, of €60m for a top shelf DM solves your Pogba issue, why wouldn’t you do that? Not saying we’re going to win 4 CLs in 5 years, but the teams are remarkably similar EXCEPT for the DM quality and attributes.
I agree Pogba loses the ball way more often and thats part of the problem. And I just don't think the teams are all that similar. The balance in midfield is way different. You're comparing Bruno and Pogba to Modric and Kroos. Modric and Kroos are without a doubt, central midfielders who love controlling games. They don't get loads of goals or assists, they control games, keep possession, progress the ball up to the front 3 and dictate the tempo of the game, and just dominate everything. They are also very decent positionally. Bruno and Pogba are both final pass players. They're the guys who want to play the killer ball. Swap Bruno or Pogba for Modric or Kroos, and sure, they could work next to a defensive midfielder. Neither Bruno or Pogba are deeper central midfielders though. They just can't do that role.
My point is that Kroos and Modric in their prime hardly lose the ball, thus Casemiro is enough. Pogba and Bruno lose more possession easily compare to those two, thus one CDM is not enough.
If it was De Bruyne who had a performance of Pogba's level, but ended up giving the ball away for one goal, you wouldn't be saying that. It can happen to everyone. And I'm only talking about Pogba in France. How he is in United doesn't factor for my analysis, which is only about France Pogba, who has won a World Cup and is great for them almost always. I don't care for United Pogba
Sancho as right wing back? You do know, however you put it it's still 5 at the back while defending ? Means, Sancho will end up as right back without the ball to cut the channels on that side.
After signing Sancho, Pogbas contract should be prior number 1 and then Varane and a CDM.
"Sometimes you don't know what you have before you lose it"
"Sometimes you don't know what you have before you lose it"
Yeah..only took us like 4 years and we are yet to find what we have.
If KDB doesn't give the ball away every 3 game, both Mourinho and Ole didn't make the same conclusion that Pogba is safer playing in front of 2 MF, then what you said is true.
If you are only looking at French national team only then there is nothing that we can argue on, because I look at both MU (more) and France 2nd. A very simple fact on Porga, is that when he turns up, if he turns up, which is always the case for France rather than MU, then Pogba is a 5 star players. The problem with Pogba, is whether he can concentrate 95min, instead of just 60. BTW, the reason of the loss, was not just Pogba, it was the entire French team thought job is accomplished.
AWB cant play in that formation. His positioning and heading is below par to be a good CB. Also why would be spend 72m on an exciting young attacking talent just to play him at RWB. Thus formation doesnt play to our strength.
Bang on.
Pogba is massively technically gifted, but he lacks maturity in his play, as well as game intelligence. If he added that he’d be close to the best midfielder in the world. But he’s 28 now and hasn’t advanced those areas of his game. Until he does he will always be a brilliant player who is simultaneously a liability.
We’d be a much better team with a Verratti or Barella in his place.
We’d be a much better team with a Verratti or Barella in his place.
I have read that after the game the other night, when France exited the Euros, Pogba got a lot of stick from his team mates.
Perhaps he will come back to Utd. showing a bit of humiltiy and less arrogance and that might help him become a more consistent team player for you.
Perhaps he will come back to Utd. showing a bit of humiltiy and less arrogance and that might help him become a more consistent team player for you.
There's more. People suggesting we can move to back 5 with Sancho as wingback and AWB as CB. Maguire is a problem because he is not fast enough to cover for Pogba. Bruno can be played deeper because he has better work rate.
Then, the only thing left it to buy a top class controller/defensive midfielder combined... Once all that is completed, we will see the unlocked Pogba.
And then he'll leave on free the next year.
Which is EXACTLY the issue. We struggle to beat the top 10% of teams, the bottom 90% we will beat even with McFred. Keep in mind Ole prefers McFred over Pogba in midfield against the big boys.
So what is the point in keeping Pogba, if he doesn't make us better against the top 10% of opponents?
I would question if some people are more concerned about Pogba than the club. Which truly shows his marketing value.
Exactly, we need to look how Pogba fits this team in full context, not only his mythical "perfect partner" and Bruno. The way we play (wingers, forwards staying high) we need energetic and strong defensively midfield.
The only thing that baffles me is why Ole refused to put Pogba in Bruno role the whole season. He even preferred van de Beek to Paul there.
Great post.
What a bizarre perspective. I don't think anyone is "desperate" to get rid of Pogba. If you consider:
- Pogba has one year left on contract
- he clearly stated he wants to leave
- Fred and McTominay, hardly world class players, are preferred to him in midfield against the big boys
- we bought Sancho who can play on both wings, what limits Pogba game time even more
- we could get decent money for him this summer (after good Euro)
I don't question Pogba class, but I also see his flaws and how he doesn't fit current United team. I couldn't care less what he does for France (which is basically the same what he does for the club, just in different conditions which cannot be replicated at United).
In the end we can:
- keep replacing player by player so that we can finally unlock Pogba, as you suggest
Or
- sell Pogba and use the funds to get a class all round midfielder who fits United.
I am confident the latter is 10x easier, faster, and less risky thing to do.
Again, spot on. Good work rate, and defensive capabilities is more valuable to us than creativity from the deep. Not to mention we struggled defensively rather than offensively last season, what seems to be forgotten as most people focus on "replacing Pogba creativity", instead of looking for balance and control in midfield. Pogba doesn't provide those things.
Verratti is probably the most overrated player on caf and plays in a double pivot /3men midfield with more defensive players around and woudnt' help us that much more. Barella I am a big fan but he's also a better as a no8. Pogba is an advanced playmaker which is a different position than the two, both player can dream of that vision, so complex passing ability and ability to create stuff out of nothing on his own due to his rare mix of strength and dribbling ability. You can't compare apples and pears. He's played deeper in midfield a lot yes, because he has the ability to play there due to his unique skillset although as we all know he's better up the field.
Those two I can imagine could give us other options but they would again struggle with having a proper no6 or more consolidated CM next to them. And losing Pogba would mean losing another dimension to our game.. With a top club you need all the firepower and ability to change the game and mix it up.
Just because Pogba was sidelined due to his injuries, covid or had to spend playing a lot of times next to Lingard and Pereira or McTominay and deeper in midfield in a rigid Ole system doesn't mean he's a bad player agauin showing up for France regularly and for us in positions and set up which he thrives in. You can than argue that Bruno was also a liability and the number of shocking games where he didn't perform were probably more than the games where he performed. Let's not get ridiculed by the number of assists and goals got form penalties and set pieces.. to evaluate him properly. If Pogba was on those he would have some ridiculous numbers too, playing on average way more advanced position.
Sorry getting a bit sidetracked here but just another unfair criticism of Pogba and grass is always greener thing which triggered me. The whole point is a top team which wants to challenge all trophies possible and be the best club in the world should absolutely have a player like Pogba while adding some other players ( world class CDM/CM, CB) to back it up so it all works..
A game where the midfield didn't dominate or control anywhere near as well as they should Vs a nothing special team.
Absolutely agree.
This inclination to avoid any sort of accommodating of Pogba is bizarre imo, it boils down to us requiring a top DM and that’s whether Pogba stays or leaves, fact.
He’s incredibly talented and perfect for the premier league, he has his flaws like every player on earth but we knew of them before we signed him and have done nothing but a half-arsed job of accommodating him imo.
People will pretend we have jumped through hoops for him, I’m sorry that’s absolute bullsh*t. We’ve done him and ultimately ourselves a disservice by purchasing terrible DM’s.
Matic who was done before we even signed him and Fred who isn’t a natural DM.
Really now, is that ‘doing everything to accommodate him’? Come off it. Even if he leaves those players are not the United standard.
So let’s all wish him out the door whilst fielding McFred next season and then no doubt we will all turn and blame Ole at the end of the season, especially when Paul is playing well in another team where they have done their homework and know how to make the most of him.
That sounds like an awesome plan.
Which is a normal thing in knockout games. It’s why De Bruyne not being at his best yesterday isn’t a big talking point; most big players don’t dominate big games, those that do often turn into iconic performances. The fact that Pogba cut open that team so many times was pretty uncommon, Spain’s midfielders didn’t find it quite so easy as an obvious reference point. He did his job and then some. The fact that this creativity is in any way balanced out by one mistake just tells you about short memories and stubborn caricatures.
Give him 1 week to sign or we sell, it's the right option. I have had enough of this fat slimy agent and his 'tricks'.
One mistake? There were 4, the footballing one and three dancing ones.
What was that all about? He pranced around like the game was over (and won). It wasn't and they didn't.
Some on here say his agent is a cnut. Well even if he decided to sack him and represent himself, I'd still say it.
Get rid, he is not fit to be a member of your team - he is a prima donna and Utd. above all else, are famous for building teams not promoting individuals. Whilst he continues to be associated with Manchester United, it brings negative vibes onto your club off the pitch and will lead to more mediocrity in the forthcoming season, on it.
This below is not ancient history, OGS should stand by his words:
https://www.legit.ng/1394253-ole-gu...ster-united-manager-declares-bigger-club.html
The dancing thing is a celebration. It’s been normal to celebrate goals for about 30 years now. Some people and cultures dance to celebrate, some go for an understated arm pump, neither are a reflection of their attitude to the game just an attitude to life and expressions of joy. It isn’t remotely an expression of complacency in the game. You’ll see many French players dance to celebrate in many different scenarios. That’s just you reading into things because you can’t relate to it.
I know you don't agree but we lack creativity against the bottom teams with McFred* in the middle. Though with someone more positionally aware and possess better passing, we could get away with it more often. Against the better team, I don't see any issue of playing three in midfield and alternating between Pogba and Bruno in these games, or even using a diamond and playing them both.
* Btw, I hate using that because I consider Fred a way better midfielder than McTominay.
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Well I wouldn't say I don't agree, but:
A) our record against the bottom teams is very good since we signed Bruno, on par or better than City.
B) the creativity doesn't need to come from midfield in our setup. We have 4 offensive players and 2 fullbacks joining.
Regarding the first point, obviously it could be even better, but the point is we struggle against top teams and I still don't see how Pogba mitigates that, especially that we probably agree we need both Sancho and CM anyway.
The second part is why I'd rather out midfield provided a base for other to perform, keep the ball when needed and fight the midfield battle. Pogba provides neither of that.
Pogba can play in midfield three with a good base behind him, but that doesn't change a fact we NEED another midfielder - I agree about Fred and it's McTominay I'd replace. But keep in mind Ole never uses Pogba this way.
I'm with you singh. His ability to create chances from 20/30 yard passes creates a whole different dynamic to our attack. Without Pogba or another creative midfielder they will just swamp Fernandes and we'll look toothless
Why do we even wait so long with a key player? Really puts us in a difficult situation
Great minds. Let's hope he re-signs.
There has never been any reason for Ole to come out and "stand by his words", as you say. Pogba has never acted unprofessionally under Ole. They have a good relationship by all accounts.
The idea that Pogba thinks he's bigger than United seems to be entertained by certain fans more than anything.
Would you class Sir Alex Ferguson as 'certain fans' because in 2012 he said: "Pogba signed for Juventus a long time ago as far as we're aware. Which is disappointing. I don't think he showed us any respect at all so, to be honest, I'm quite happy." (https://www.bbc.com/sport/football/18698577)
Oh and by all accounts he wants to leave the club for a second time, so I stand by my opinion.
Which bit makes him unprofessional and/or make him think he's bigger than the club?
Heh. Fergie didn't like his agent - that was the main problem. But - yes - Fergie didn't like the attitude of young Paul Pogba either, there's no doubt about that.
But that's water under the bridge, ancient history in football terms.
Wanting to leave the club doesn't mean he thinks he's bigger than the club - it's a sad reflection of how far we've fallen since Fergie's days more than anything.
Let's not mix the cards here: Wanting to leave the club isn't a problem in itself. It's 100% about how you go about it. And Pogba by all accounts has not acted unprofessionally or disrespectfully towards his manager or his teammates during Ole's time as United manager.
What happened under the former manager is another matter - but that is also water under the bridge.
And what his agent comes up with regularly is yet another matter - but none of that seems to have soured Pogba's relationship with the current United manager.
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You're not getting sidetracked at all I'd say you're on to the crux of the problem. Pogba is at his best in a possession based system where he can get on the ball as much as possible, but despite having the pieces to execute a possession based system that's not what the manager wants to do.